Update on Trump Legal Cases

[earendel]

Search for 'the errors the lie and the coverup'. Probably the only way you'll find it on google. I wanted to see if trollboy would even bother to look for it. So far he hasn't. He just always does what he does: rehash the talking points of his narrative (like I don't know what they are). Here's a hint what I believe will happen: TWATSATITF. I will interpret after the fact.

Thank you. However all I found was a link to an X post from The Gateway Pundit and two links to a website for Tiger Droppings. When I went to the latter, my anti-virus program blocked some of the content "as coming from potentially dangerous or risky websites". I was able to read some of what appears to be part 2 of a series. The gist, it seems to me, is that Joseph Rossi is saying that statements made by various officials were deliberately false. I think that might be overstating the case - the statements may have been in error (or the speaker may have thought them to be true at the time) but it's a leap to go from that to claiming that the statements were deliberately untrue. Perhaps the other parts of the series will make this clearer.

UPDATE: I saw your links to joehoft.com with the entire series of articles. I'm working my way through them now.

[Weyoun]

Today Is December 19!

I’m guessing it will come and go without any news, just like Operation Dumbo Shit came and went with no news.

Because there is no news. They counted three times. Biden won Georgia.

[Bob78164]

Today Is December 19!

I’m guessing it will come and go without any news, just like Operation Dumbo Shit came and went with no news.

Because there is no news. They counted three times. Biden won Georgia.

Incorrect, though the news isn't from Georgia. It's from Colorado.

The Colorado Supreme Court has held that Donny is disqualified under the Fourteenth Amendment, Section 3, from running for President because he engaged in insurrection after taking an oath to support the Constitution. (The trial court found that Donny had engaged in insurrection, but held that the Presidential oath doesn't count and that Section 3 of the Fourteenth Amendment doesn't apply to the office of President. The Colorado Supreme Court reversed the latter two holdings.)

The Court stayed its decision until January 4, 2024, to allow time for the U.S. Supreme Court to weigh in. I'm pretty sure it will do so. --Bob

[flockofseagulls104]

Today Is December 19!

I’m guessing it will come and go without any news, just like Operation Dumbo Shit came and went with no news.

Because there is no news. They counted three times. Biden won Georgia.

It is beyond belief that there are people who trust you with their health based on your behavior on this bored.

If you bothered to even glance at the issue, you might determine it is about that the 'recounts' were full of errors in just the one county that was looked at. And SOS knew it. Of course, there was no news about it in the state-run media. But you are another comrade.

After checking the actual numbers Rossi found about 4000 votes that went to Biden that shouldn't have, and he wasn't even able to look at the complete total. And Fulton is only one of 150+ counties in Georgia. I'm sure, based on experience, that my own dear DeKalb County was not far behind that. The Governor's office spent weeks looking at Rossi's findings and verified them. Then it was sent to the SOS office, and Raffensperger squelched and continues to squelch it.

In the one case on the issue brought before the State BOE today (they continued the other one at the last minute, surprise, surprise), the board voted 2-2 to launch an independent investigation of the SOS, after hearing dozens of people give them factual, documented examples of malfeasance by the SOS. So it failed, there being no majority. Why the board has 4 members, I don't know. The argument against was that the SOS is a Constitutional office and the BOE is an appointed body, so they didn't believe they had the authority to hold the SOS accountable, even though they previously voted the charges of violating Election Law was of the most serious nature. The AGs office has refused to touch it (surprise, surprise, again). So the BOE punted and sent it to the legislature to rule whether the BOE has that authority. What it ultimately means is that Raffensperger has no one to hold him accountable for his errors, lies, and cover up.

I expect there will be news about it now, with the tone that a bunch of election deniers were thwarted again, not mentioning the actual facts of the case.

[BackInTex]

Today Is December 19!

I’m guessing it will come and go without any news, just like Operation Dumbo Shit came and went with no news.

Because there is no news. They counted three times. Biden won Georgia.

Incorrect, though the news isn't from Georgia. It's from Colorado.

The Colorado Supreme Court has held that Donny is disqualified under the Fourteenth Amendment, Section 3, from running for President because he engaged in insurrection after taking an oath to support the Constitution. (The trial court found that Donny had engaged in insurrection, but held that the Presidential oath doesn't count and that Section 3 of the Fourteenth Amendment doesn't apply to the office of President. The Colorado Supreme Court reversed the latter two holdings.)

The Court stayed its decision until January 4, 2024, to allow time for the U.S. Supreme Court to weigh in. I'm pretty sure it will do so. --Bob

To Hell with the will of the People. This is exactly what the Left warned Trump would do. Anyone celebrating this or even rremotely thinking this is OK is un-American. Period. Full stop.

[Bob78164]

Today Is December 19!I’m guessing it will come and go without any news, just like Operation Dumbo Shit came and went with no news.

Because there is no news. They counted three times. Biden won Georgia.

Incorrect, though the news isn't from Georgia. It's from Colorado.

The Colorado Supreme Court has held that Donny is disqualified under the Fourteenth Amendment, Section 3, from running for President because he engaged in insurrection after taking an oath to support the Constitution. (The trial court found that Donny had engaged in insurrection, but held that the Presidential oath doesn't count and that Section 3 of the Fourteenth Amendment doesn't apply to the office of President. The Colorado Supreme Court reversed the latter two holdings.)

The Court stayed its decision until January 4, 2024, to allow time for the U.S. Supreme Court to weigh in. I'm pretty sure it will do so. --Bob

To Hell with the will of the People. This is exactly what the Left warned Trump would do. Anyone celebrating this or even rremotely thinking this is OK is un-American. Period. Full stop.

Why do you have a problem with a court abiding by the Constitution? Are you saying the courts should ignore the Constitution when abiding by the Constitution yields a political result you don’t like? You don’t seem to have any problem using the Constitution to overrule the will of the people when it comes to gun control, so I’m forced to conclude that you only want to abide by the Constitution when it results in an outcome you like. —Bob

[Weyoun]

Today Is December 19!

I’m guessing it will come and go without any news, just like Operation Dumbo Shit came and went with no news.

Because there is no news. They counted three times. Biden won Georgia.

Incorrect, though the news isn't from Georgia. It's from Colorado.

The Colorado Supreme Court has held that Donny is disqualified under the Fourteenth Amendment, Section 3, from running for President because he engaged in insurrection after taking an oath to support the Constitution. (The trial court found that Donny had engaged in insurrection, but held that the Presidential oath doesn't count and that Section 3 of the Fourteenth Amendment doesn't apply to the office of President. The Colorado Supreme Court reversed the latter two holdings.)

The Court stayed its decision until January 4, 2024, to allow time for the U.S. Supreme Court to weigh in. I'm pretty sure it will do so. --Bob

To Hell with the will of the People. This is exactly what the Left warned Trump would do. Anyone celebrating this or even rremotely thinking this is OK is un-American. Period. Full stop.

I hate to agree with you, but unless he is actually convicted in a criminal trial of insurrection, he should remain on the ballot.

[BackInTex]

Incorrect, though the news isn't from Georgia. It's from Colorado.

The Colorado Supreme Court has held that Donny is disqualified under the Fourteenth Amendment, Section 3, from running for President because he engaged in insurrection after taking an oath to support the Constitution. (The trial court found that Donny had engaged in insurrection, but held that the Presidential oath doesn't count and that Section 3 of the Fourteenth Amendment doesn't apply to the office of President. The Colorado Supreme Court reversed the latter two holdings.)

The Court stayed its decision until January 4, 2024, to allow time for the U.S. Supreme Court to weigh in. I'm pretty sure it will do so. --Bob

To Hell with the will of the People. This is exactly what the Left warned Trump would do. Anyone celebrating this or even rremotely thinking this is OK is un-American. Period. Full stop.

Why do you have a problem with a court abiding by the Constitution? Are you saying the courts should ignore the Constitution when abiding by the Constitution yields a political result you don’t like? You don’t seem to have any problem using the Constitution to overrule the will of the people when it comes to gun control, so I’m forced to conclude that you only want to abide by the Constitution when it results in an outcome you like. —Bob

What part of the Constitution are they abigdng by? The 14th Amendmant? There is no wording in the 14th Amendment to support this. None. You can add words to it, you can make assumptions of someones actions that have not been certified by jury, but you can not defend this with facts. You know it, I know it.

[Bob78164]

To Hell with the will of the People. This is exactly what the Left warned Trump would do. Anyone celebrating this or even rremotely thinking this is OK is un-American. Period. Full stop.

Why do you have a problem with a court abiding by the Constitution? Are you saying the courts should ignore the Constitution when abiding by the Constitution yields a political result you don’t like? You don’t seem to have any problem using the Constitution to overrule the will of the people when it comes to gun control, so I’m forced to conclude that you only want to abide by the Constitution when it results in an outcome you like. —Bob

What part of the Constitution are they abigdng by? The 14th Amendmant? There is no wording in the 14th Amendment to support this. None. You can add words to it, you can make assumptions of someones actions that have not been certified by jury, but you can not defend this with facts. You know it, I know it.

"No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof." U.S. Const., amend. XIV, sect. 3 (emphasis added).

Notice that this language says nothing about a jury. It just says that if you've taken the requisite oath and then violate that oath by engaging in insurrection, you're permanently disqualified. How many participants in the Civil War do you think were convicted by a jury?

Donny had due process because he had a full and fair opportunity to litigate in the trial court the issue of whether he'd engaged in insurrection. He lost that argument. He lost it because he had, in fact, engaged in insurrection. (That's the same reason he was found liable for sexual assault -- he had, in fact, done what Ms. Carroll accused him of doing.) That act makes him ineligible under the Constitution to "hold any office, civil or military, under the United States." One such office is the Presidency.

You really should read the trial court's ruling on this issue. It goes carefully through the evidence and it's quite instructive. --Bob

[BackInTex]

Why do you have a problem with a court abiding by the Constitution? Are you saying the courts should ignore the Constitution when abiding by the Constitution yields a political result you don’t like? You don’t seem to have any problem using the Constitution to overrule the will of the people when it comes to gun control, so I’m forced to conclude that you only want to abide by the Constitution when it results in an outcome you like. —Bob

What part of the Constitution are they abigdng by? The 14th Amendmant? There is no wording in the 14th Amendment to support this. None. You can add words to it, you can make assumptions of someones actions that have not been certified by jury, but you can not defend this with facts. You know it, I know it.

"No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof." U.S. Const., amend. XIV, sect. 3 (emphasis added).

Notice that this language says nothing about a jury. It just says that if you've taken the requisite oath and then violate that oath by engaging in insurrection, you're permanently disqualified. How many participants in the Civil War do you think were convicted by a jury?

Donny had due process because he had a full and fair opportunity to litigate in the trial court the issue of whether he'd engaged in insurrection. He lost that argument. He lost it because he had, in fact, engaged in insurrection. (That's the same reason he was found liable for sexual assault -- he had, in fact, done what Ms. Carroll accused him of doing.) That act makes him ineligible under the Constitution to "hold any office, civil or military, under the United States." One such office is the Presidency.

You really should read the trial court's ruling on this issue. It goes carefully through the evidence and it's quite instructive. --Bob

I'll bet you $5 the US Supreme Court says otherwise.

[Bob78164]

What part of the Constitution are they abigdng by? The 14th Amendmant? There is no wording in the 14th Amendment to support this. None. You can add words to it, you can make assumptions of someones actions that have not been certified by jury, but you can not defend this with facts. You know it, I know it.

"No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof." U.S. Const., amend. XIV, sect. 3 (emphasis added).

Notice that this language says nothing about a jury. It just says that if you've taken the requisite oath and then violate that oath by engaging in insurrection, you're permanently disqualified. How many participants in the Civil War do you think were convicted by a jury?

Donny had due process because he had a full and fair opportunity to litigate in the trial court the issue of whether he'd engaged in insurrection. He lost that argument. He lost it because he had, in fact, engaged in insurrection. (That's the same reason he was found liable for sexual assault -- he had, in fact, done what Ms. Carroll accused him of doing.) That act makes him ineligible under the Constitution to "hold any office, civil or military, under the United States." One such office is the Presidency.

You really should read the trial court's ruling on this issue. It goes carefully through the evidence and it's quite instructive. --Bob

I'll bet you $5 the US Supreme Court says otherwise.

I'm pretty sure we'll find out. The only vote I'm sure of is the guy who really ought to recuse himself. He won't, but he should. --Bob

[BackInTex]

The only vote I'm sure of is the guy who really ought to recuse himself. He won't, but he should. --Bob

Would you like to rephrase that so it make sense?

[Bob78164]

The only vote I'm sure of is the guy who really ought to recuse himself. He won't, but he should. --Bob

Would you like to rephrase that so it make sense?

Sure. The Justice whose wife supported efforts to overturn a free and fair election really oughta recuse himself. Instead, he'll participate and vote to keep Donny on the ballot. --Bob

[flockofseagulls104]

The only vote I'm sure of is the guy who really ought to recuse himself. He won't, but he should. --Bob

Would you like to rephrase that so it make sense?

Sure. The Justice whose wife supported efforts to overturn a free and fair election really oughta recuse himself. Instead, he'll participate and vote to keep Donny on the ballot. --Bob

Here's some whataboutism for you. How about Leticia James, Judge Engoron and Fani Willis recusing themselves? Pretty solid evidence there against them DIRECTLY. And you can add Engoron's wife just for good measure, hypocrite.

[silverscreenselect]

After checking the actual numbers Rossi found about 4000 votes that went to Biden that shouldn't have, and he wasn't even able to look at the complete total. And Fulton is only one of 150+ counties in Georgia. I'm sure, based on experience, that my own dear DeKalb County was not far behind that. The Governor's office spent weeks looking at Rossi's findings and verified them. Then it was sent to the SOS office, and Raffensperger squelched and continues to squelch it.

Here's what actually happened, as opposed to Flock's bloviating.

First, the Georgia Election Board has five members, one member chosen by the Democratic and Republican parties, one by the Senate, one by the House, and one "non-partisan" by the governor. Until 2020, the Secretary of State was the fifth member, but the law was changed. Up until this summer, Bill Duffey, a retired Federal judge, was the fifth member, but he resigned in July and the vacancy has not been filled. Duffy was instrumental in denying some of the election challenges filed during his tenure.

Following the 2020 election, the Secretary of State ordered a risk-limiting audit. This was a hand recount of the votes and never intended to serve as an official recount. A 2020 Georgia law required a risk-limiting audit of one statewide race, in this case either the Presidential or one of the two Senate races. (In 2022, the Secretary of State race was chosen.) A risk-limiting audit normally counts only a statistically significant number of ballots. Here the audit required all votes to be counted and that presented timing problems. Election day was November 3, and voters whose mail-in ballots were rejected could correct them until November 6. Biden was not declared the winner in Georgia by news organizations on November 13. Nonetheless, Raffensperger ordered the hand audit on November 11. By law, all counties had to report final results by November 18. As you might guess, the tabulating process in large counties was awkward, since COVID restrictions were in place and there had to be both a Democratic and Republican observer for each person counting votes. Over five million votes were cast in the state, and 500,000 in Fulton County. Fulton County and some of the other large counties. They hand audit revealed that some votes were not counted in four counties. Three of these counties voted for Trump. From the Carter Center report on the hand audit, which I recommend:

In Fayette, Walton, Floyd, and Douglas counties, county officials found that information on memory cards from scanners for about 3,000 votes had not been properly uploaded and thus not included in the initial reported election results. As part of the RLA hand recount, paper ballots for these votes were found and counted. All three counties recounted the ballots, reconciled their counts against the number of voters who voted, and certified their county-level election results in advance of the state certification of results on Nov. 20. In Floyd County, a scanner used in one early-voting location jammed, and the memory card in the scanner was corrupted, with the results not scanned nor included in the initial reported results. When these 2,600 uncounted ballots were discovered during the hand tally, the Secretary of State’s Office and Floyd County election officials decided to rescan all votes cast at that location, including the 2,600 ballots in question.

https://www.cartercenter.org/news/pr/20 ... 40121.html

When the hand audit was finished, some of the tallies in some counties changed, both in Biden's and Trump's favor. In Fulton County, Trump gained 345 votes in the manual recount. In Flock's DeKalb County, Biden gained 560. Statewide, Trump gained 496 votes. According to the SOS website:

The differential of the audit results from the original machine-counted results was well within the expected margin of human error that occurs when hand-counting ballots. A 2012 study by Rice University and Clemson University found that “hand counting of votes in postelection audit or recount procedures can result in error rates of up to 2 percent.” In Georgia’s recount, the highest error rate in any county recount was 0.73%. Most counties found no change in their final tally. The majority of the remaining counties had changes of fewer than ten ballots.

I mentioned the higher possibility of errors in hand counts in an earlier post in this Lounge. And the conditions for conducting this recount and the time pressure were far from ideal After the hand audit, following a request by Trump, the state conducted a second, official recount, this one by machines. That recount also confirmed Biden's victory. The hand audit was strongly criticized at the time by various experts, not for the results found, but for the entire process. As The Nation reported: "Though the process ended by confirming President-elect Joe Biden’s lead, certified by the state on Friday, expert observers across the nation familiar with the state and its history with election technology looked on, feeling what one described as “horrified.” These observers included computer scientists, cybersecurity analysts, an adviser to Congress on election integrity, and the statistician who invented the method of auditing elections that Georgia Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger said the state was carrying out."

https://www.thenation.com/article/polit ... a-recount/

Since the election Joe Rossi has compiled a list of what he considers problems with the hand audits. In June of this year, the State Elections Board found numerous mistakes in the hand audit, which state investigators attributed to human error. However, that was not the official result. Instead the machine recount was official, and the changes in the totals were largely due to the votes that hadn't been counted in those four counties originally. The Board entered into a consent order with Fulton County, in which the county essentially promised to do better, train its people better, and implement written policies for the risk audit (which it had already done for 2022.) In 2022, there was a hand risk audit for the Secretary of State election. Only 230,000 votes were counted statewide, a big difference from the five million in 2020.

Today's hearing was an attempt to launch an official investigation against Brad Raffensperger, although I'm not sure for what. The most you could claim was he showed poor judgment in ordering a hand count of all five million votes (although that was understandable from a political perspective) and a failure to properly educate county election boards before the election. That sort of poor judgment would have been a reason to vote against him in 2022, not a grounds for discipline of some undisclosed nature in 2023. It failed on a 2-2 vote. The Board did ask the legislature whether they had the authority to do so.

To sum up, the problems that Flock and Joe Rossi claim arose in the hand recount, which was the first time this had ever been done in Georgia, under very tight time limits, with no set procedures in place, a very close and contentious election, and problems with COVID. Most of these issues went away in 2022, especially the COVID problems and the massive number of ballots to be tallied. There were no allegations about the original election other than the missing votes in four relatively small counties that was the biggest reason Trump's final vote total was closer in the second recount. There were no allegations about the second recount. This is all about problems with a recount that was known to be problematic and still proved very accurate.

[flockofseagulls104]

After checking the actual numbers Rossi found about 4000 votes that went to Biden that shouldn't have, and he wasn't even able to look at the complete total. And Fulton is only one of 150+ counties in Georgia. I'm sure, based on experience, that my own dear DeKalb County was not far behind that. The Governor's office spent weeks looking at Rossi's findings and verified them. Then it was sent to the SOS office, and Raffensperger squelched and continues to squelch it.

Here's what actually happened, as opposed to Flock's bloviating.

First, the Georgia Election Board has five members, one member chosen by the Democratic and Republican parties, one by the Senate, one by the House, and one "non-partisan" by the governor. Until 2020, the Secretary of State was the fifth member, but the law was changed. Up until this summer, Bill Duffey, a retired Federal judge, was the fifth member, but he resigned in July and the vacancy has not been filled. Duffy was instrumental in denying some of the election challenges filed during his tenure.

Following the 2020 election, the Secretary of State ordered a risk-limiting audit. This was a hand recount of the votes and never intended to serve as an official recount. A 2020 Georgia law required a risk-limiting audit of one statewide race, in this case either the Presidential or one of the two Senate races. (In 2022, the Secretary of State race was chosen.) A risk-limiting audit normally counts only a statistically significant number of ballots. Here the audit required all votes to be counted and that presented timing problems. Election day was November 3, and voters whose mail-in ballots were rejected could correct them until November 6. Biden was not declared the winner in Georgia by news organizations on November 13. Nonetheless, Raffensperger ordered the hand audit on November 11. By law, all counties had to report final results by November 18. As you might guess, the tabulating process in large counties was awkward, since COVID restrictions were in place and there had to be both a Democratic and Republican observer for each person counting votes. Over five million votes were cast in the state, and 500,000 in Fulton County. Fulton County and some of the other large counties. They hand audit revealed that some votes were not counted in four counties. Three of these counties voted for Trump. From the Carter Center report on the hand audit, which I recommend:

In Fayette, Walton, Floyd, and Douglas counties, county officials found that information on memory cards from scanners for about 3,000 votes had not been properly uploaded and thus not included in the initial reported election results. As part of the RLA hand recount, paper ballots for these votes were found and counted. All three counties recounted the ballots, reconciled their counts against the number of voters who voted, and certified their county-level election results in advance of the state certification of results on Nov. 20. In Floyd County, a scanner used in one early-voting location jammed, and the memory card in the scanner was corrupted, with the results not scanned nor included in the initial reported results. When these 2,600 uncounted ballots were discovered during the hand tally, the Secretary of State’s Office and Floyd County election officials decided to rescan all votes cast at that location, including the 2,600 ballots in question.

https://www.cartercenter.org/news/pr/20 ... 40121.html

When the hand audit was finished, some of the tallies in some counties changed, both in Biden's and Trump's favor. In Fulton County, Trump gained 345 votes in the manual recount. In Flock's DeKalb County, Biden gained 560. Statewide, Trump gained 496 votes. According to the SOS website:

The differential of the audit results from the original machine-counted results was well within the expected margin of human error that occurs when hand-counting ballots. A 2012 study by Rice University and Clemson University found that “hand counting of votes in postelection audit or recount procedures can result in error rates of up to 2 percent.” In Georgia’s recount, the highest error rate in any county recount was 0.73%. Most counties found no change in their final tally. The majority of the remaining counties had changes of fewer than ten ballots.

I mentioned the higher possibility of errors in hand counts in an earlier post in this Lounge. And the conditions for conducting this recount and the time pressure were far from ideal After the hand audit, following a request by Trump, the state conducted a second, official recount, this one by machines. That recount also confirmed Biden's victory. The hand audit was strongly criticized at the time by various experts, not for the results found, but for the entire process. As The Nation reported: "Though the process ended by confirming President-elect Joe Biden’s lead, certified by the state on Friday, expert observers across the nation familiar with the state and its history with election technology looked on, feeling what one described as “horrified.” These observers included computer scientists, cybersecurity analysts, an adviser to Congress on election integrity, and the statistician who invented the method of auditing elections that Georgia Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger said the state was carrying out."

https://www.thenation.com/article/polit ... a-recount/

Since the election Joe Rossi has compiled a list of what he considers problems with the hand audits. In June of this year, the State Elections Board found numerous mistakes in the hand audit, which state investigators attributed to human error. However, that was not the official result. Instead the machine recount was official, and the changes in the totals were largely due to the votes that hadn't been counted in those four counties originally. The Board entered into a consent order with Fulton County, in which the county essentially promised to do better, train its people better, and implement written policies for the risk audit (which it had already done for 2022.) In 2022, there was a hand risk audit for the Secretary of State election. Only 230,000 votes were counted statewide, a big difference from the five million in 2020.

Today's hearing was an attempt to launch an official investigation against Brad Raffensperger, although I'm not sure for what. The most you could claim was he showed poor judgment in ordering a hand count of all five million votes (although that was understandable from a political perspective) and a failure to properly educate county election boards before the election. That sort of poor judgment would have been a reason to vote against him in 2022, not a grounds for discipline of some undisclosed nature in 2023. It failed on a 2-2 vote. The Board did ask the legislature whether they had the authority to do so.

To sum up, the problems that Flock and Joe Rossi claim arose in the hand recount, which was the first time this had ever been done in Georgia, under very tight time limits, with no set procedures in place, a very close and contentious election, and problems with COVID. Most of these issues went away in 2022, especially the COVID problems and the massive number of ballots to be tallied. There were no allegations about the original election other than the missing votes in four relatively small counties that was the biggest reason Trump's final vote total was closer in the second recount. There were no allegations about the second recount. This is all about problems with a recount that was known to be problematic and still proved very accurate.

Good try, comrade. You know know nothing about it. Data does not lie, but politicians do all the time. But you are very good at your bloviating, I will give you that. Must have spent a lot of time weaving that bullshit together.

It's not going away. And Raffensperger is doing his best to ensure all this legal drama, political drama and suspicion of our elections will be front and center in 2024. He is a liar.

[silverscreenselect]

Data does not lie, but politicians do all the time. But you are very good at your bloviating, I will give you that.

Did any of the discrepancies and errors that Joe Rossi says he found have anything to do with the initial vote count on election day? Or with the official machine recount ordered later?

If not, then all he's done is possibly confirm what everyone already knew and what Raffensperger confirmed on the SOS page dealing with the hand count, namely that some errors were possible in a hand recount, especially one being done for the first time in Georgia, involving so many ballots under those conditions in so short a period of time.

Despite the errors, the overall results of the hand recount were remarkably consistent with the two machine counts. If Trump had lost by 12 votes instead of 12,000, you might have an argument. The reason "it's not going away" is that a lot of people cant bring themselves to believe that Donald Trump lost the election, either here or nationally. Despite every single court challenge to the contrary. You're like those Japanese soldiers they found on isolated Pacific islands years after World War II ended. They couldn't believe they had lost the war either.

[silverscreenselect]

Judge Engoron denying yet another motion by Trump for a directed verdict Monday in the NY fraud case:

At least five times during the recently concluded ten-and-a-half-week trial of this matter, defendants moved for a directed verdict. The first such time was at the close of plaintiff's case, which is when defendants normally move for such relief. This court took that motion, and most of the others, under advisement. It denied two of them on the spot. This court will highlight some of the fatal flaws in the present motion.

[Trump's expert witness, Prof. Eli Bartov] is a tenured professor, but all that his testimony proves is that for a million or so dollars, some experts will say whatever you want them to say. By doggedly attempting to justify every misstatement [in the financial statements], Professor Bartov lost all credibility. Valuations, as elucidated ad nauseum in this trial, can be based on different criteria analyzed in different ways. But a lie is still a lie. Valuing occupied residences as if vacant, valuing restricted land as if unrestricted, valuing an apartment as if it were triple its actual size, valuing property many times the amount of concealed appraisals, valuing planned buildings as if completed and ready to rent, valuing golf courses with brand premium while claiming not to, and valuing restricted funds as cash, are not subjective differences of opinion, they are misstatements at best and fraud at worst. The evidence in the record is replete with examples of material misstatements.

The lender has lost money, although the loss is not out-of-pocket, and so the loss is not what the law traditionally thinks of as damages. That the instant lenders made millions of dollars and were happy with the transactions does not mean that they were not damaged by lending at lower rates than they ordinarily would have.

[The alleged disclaimers in the statements] were simply the accountants' practice of assuring that the issuer was responsible for the accuracy of the statements. They are not disclaimers at all, they are not defendants' statements, and they certainly do not shield defendants from liability; if anything, they expose defendants to liability.

https://iapps.courts.state.ny.us/nyscef ... tzC9ofmw==

That opinion pretty much disposes of every bogus argument Flock has made in this thread.

[flockofseagulls104]

I must admit, it is depressing to see that there are so many that either seem to want the federal government and the democrat party to run their lives, or are so willfully ignorant of what's happening that they just go along with the hatred and manipulation that is going on.

I see that the mass ignorance is rampant. After 9/11, the country came together for a brief instant against what we all recognized was evil among us. Today we do not recognize evil anymore, and some side with it. I fear that we will lose America as we have known it, and I sometimes get to thinking that I am glad I am as old as I am so that if what the bobs and trollboys want for this country does come to pass, I will not have to live in that country for very long.

[earendel]

UPDATE: I saw your links to joehoft.com with the entire series of articles. I'm working my way through them now.

OK, I read the articles. I must confess that I was confused by some of what was said, but the gist, as I understand it, is that there were errors in Fulton County (for example). But what I didn't see is whether correcting those errors would have changed the outcome.

Moreover, I can't understand why Kemp and Raffensperger, both Republicans, would be involved in a conspiracy against Donald Trump.

And, finally, in situations like these, I fall back on one of my favorite maxims: "Never ascribe to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."

[earendel]

I fear that we will lose America as we have known it, and I sometimes get to thinking that I am glad I am as old as I am so that if what the bobs and trollboys want for this country does come to pass, I will not have to live in that country for very long.

And re-electing Donald Trump will change this? Given what he and his followers have been saying, I'm worried that should that happen, "we will lose America as we have known it".

[Bob78164]

Incorrect, though the news isn't from Georgia. It's from Colorado.

The Colorado Supreme Court has held that Donny is disqualified under the Fourteenth Amendment, Section 3, from running for President because he engaged in insurrection after taking an oath to support the Constitution. (The trial court found that Donny had engaged in insurrection, but held that the Presidential oath doesn't count and that Section 3 of the Fourteenth Amendment doesn't apply to the office of President. The Colorado Supreme Court reversed the latter two holdings.)

The Court stayed its decision until January 4, 2024, to allow time for the U.S. Supreme Court to weigh in. I'm pretty sure it will do so. --Bob

To Hell with the will of the People. This is exactly what the Left warned Trump would do. Anyone celebrating this or even rremotely thinking this is OK is un-American. Period. Full stop.

I hate to agree with you, but unless he is actually convicted in a criminal trial of insurrection, he should remain on the ballot.

Do you think a criminal trial should be necessary to bar someone from the ballot because he is not a natural-born citizen of the United States? Or because he hasn't yet reached the constitutionally mandated age of 35? Or because he's already served two full terms as President? Given that none of these constitutional qualifications are addressed by criminal law (it's not a crime to be a naturalized citizen or to be younger than 35 or to serve two full terms as President), I have to believe the answer is no.

Why, then, should this constitutional qualification be the only one that must be preceded by a criminal conviction?

Personally, I think it's more than a little ironic that someone who led the movement to defy the will of the people by removing President Obama from office finds himself barred from running because his actions render him constitutionally ineligible to serve. --Bob

[flockofseagulls104]

UPDATE: I saw your links to joehoft.com with the entire series of articles. I'm working my way through them now.

OK, I read the articles. I must confess that I was confused by some of what was said, but the gist, as I understand it, is that there were errors in Fulton County (for example). But what I didn't see is whether correcting those errors would have changed the outcome.

Moreover, I can't understand why Kemp and Raffensperger, both Republicans, would be involved in a conspiracy against Donald Trump.

And, finally, in situations like these, I fall back on one of my favorite maxims: "Never ascribe to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."

It's not about changing any results. That is a part of the narrative being orchestrated. It is about preventing what happened in 2020 from ever happening again. They call us election deniers. When in truth they are Election Interference Enablers.

I am NOT a republican. And Kemp, and especially Raffensperger are not either. They are Uniparty, which is the 'power to the government' party. Please try and look past the narrative being fed to you by people who are considered 'important' and look at what's really happening.

[flockofseagulls104]

I fear that we will lose America as we have known it, and I sometimes get to thinking that I am glad I am as old as I am so that if what the bobs and trollboys want for this country does come to pass, I will not have to live in that country for very long.

And re-electing Donald Trump will change this? Given what he and his followers have been saying, I'm worried that should that happen, "we will lose America as we have known it".

What, exactly, do you think Trump and his 'followers' have said that cause you to think that?

[flockofseagulls104]

To Hell with the will of the People. This is exactly what the Left warned Trump would do. Anyone celebrating this or even rremotely thinking this is OK is un-American. Period. Full stop.

I hate to agree with you, but unless he is actually convicted in a criminal trial of insurrection, he should remain on the ballot.

Do you think a criminal trial should be necessary to bar someone from the ballot because he is not a natural-born citizen of the United States? Or because he hasn't yet reached the constitutionally mandated age of 35? Or because he's already served two full terms as President? Given that none of these constitutional qualifications are addressed by criminal law (it's not a crime to be a naturalized citizen or to be younger than 35 or to serve two full terms as President), I have to believe the answer is no.

Why, then, should this constitutional qualification be the only one that must be preceded by a criminal conviction?

Personally, I think it's more than a little ironic that someone who led the movement to defy the will of the people by removing President Obama from office finds himself barred from running because his actions render him constitutionally ineligible to serve. --Bob

4 partisan leftist people in a closed room have decided to disenfranchise millions of people in Colorado because it is their OPINION that Trump participated in an 'insurrection'. There is no definition of insurrection, he has not been convicted or even charged with that, whatever its definition is, and it is blatant election interference. And, by the definition of the amendment (Section 5), it is the Congress that has the power to enforce it, not a state court, and it specifically leaves out the President, who is NOT an officer of the government.

What kind of lawyer are you? I suspect one of those who believes their opinion is law.