I think this forum has jumped the shark

[silverscreenselect]

Whatcha gonna do? Support the US or support Iran? At the point we find ourselves in, it has to be either/or.

You've never stated what you mean by "support the US"? Send letters or emails of support to Trump or make rah-rah posts on social media? Enlist in the armed services (I doubt they'd take me)? Send money to Trump and/or Republican candidates for office or canvass for them? Vote a straight Republican ticket?

Or do you just mean keep quiet and allow Trump to continue running the war according to the feelings in his bones without any calls for constitutionally required accountability?

You have a hard time understanding this concept. Supporting the United States does not mean blindly following its leadership in whatever decisions they make. Criticizing that leadership or the decisions they make does not mean supporting Iran. FDR received a lot of criticism from Republicans leading up to the 1944 election. None of them were pro-Nazi.

[flockofseagulls104]

Criticizing that leadership or the decisions they make does not mean supporting Iran. FDR received a lot of criticism from Republicans leading up to the 1944 election.

I wasn't born yet, but I believe that once we got into that war, the country, the whole country, was behind him and the war effort. So why don't you consider sidelining the constant second-guessing, nit-picking and other bullshit for just awhile. Either that or you can join the good doc and publicly declare you want trump dead.

[silverscreenselect]

I wasn't born yet, but I believe that once we got into that war, the country, the whole country, was behind him and the war effort.

T]he fact is that President Roosevelt was pretty much roundly bashed by Republicans during the entirety of the war. And during the presidential campaign of 1944, things got as nasty as ever. Indeed, our local Lancaster New Era noted in an editorial on the eve of the election, Nov. 6, 1944, that "The surprising thing about this war-time presidential campaign is that it was no different from all the others." Thomas Dewey, Roosevelt's opponent that year, spent much of the campaign deriding FDR as a "tired old man." The Roosevelt administration, Dewey said the week before the election, was "the most wasteful, extravagant and incompetent administration in the history of the nation." Dewey, in fact, spent that fall all but calling Roosevelt a communist, insisting that FDR was intent on selling the nation down the river to the reds.

But at least Dewey didn't criticize FDR on the war effort, right? To have done that in the wake of the failed Market Garden operation, just before the Battle of the Bulge, would have been grossly unpatriotic, right? Judge for yourself: "American fighting men were paying in blood through a prolongation of the battle of Germany for the 'improvised meddling' of the Democratic administration and the 'confused incompetence' of President Roosevelt."

Claremont McKenna College professor Jack Pitney, a former Republican National Committee official who once worked for Dick Cheney, told Salon.com last year that Dewey even came close to blaming FDR for Pearl Harbor. "There's a myth," said Pitney, "that politics was adjourned for the duration of the Second World War."

https://reason.com/2004/05/28/re-fdr-di ... t-problem/

[Beebs52]

It's easy to quote whomever regarding past wars. We , our generation, weren't involved, ie, the big ones. Our parents were. My dad was on the Indianapolis prior to its sinking.

With that said I fear Trump thinks he would be able to win the big one. I don't want that attitude to prevail just because. There are many variants sprinkling out there, Ukraine, Lebanon your hamas, hezbollah, China, Russia. Plus the sleeper cells, cyber crap etc that WWII didn't have.

[flockofseagulls104]

Well, it is very reassuring that SSS doesn't believe Iran was a threat to us or to anyone else. It is unfortunate for both me and President Trump that we just don't have the information sources, the intelligence and the ability to read other people's minds and motives that SSS does. Another useful ability that SSS possesses is the ability to block out and ignore facts and opinions that he disagrees with. So, full speed ahead, SSS. Find more irrelevant bullshit to throw at trump. Since we are now in this conflict I will continue to pray and do everything I can to support our country achieving the end game of a middle east without a radical, terrorist Iran. You are free to continue to do what you have been doing for years: bashing Donald Trump.

[earendel]

Well, it is very reassuring that SSS doesn't believe Iran was a threat to us or to anyone else. It is unfortunate for both me and President Trump that we just don't have the information sources, the intelligence and the ability to read other people's minds and motives that SSS does. Another useful ability that SSS possesses is the ability to block out and ignore facts and opinions that he disagrees with. So, full speed ahead, SSS. Find more irrelevant bullshit to throw at trump. Since we are now in this conflict I will continue to pray and do everything I can to support our country achieving the end game of a middle east without a radical, terrorist Iran. You are free to continue to do what you have been doing for years: bashing Donald Trump.

Well, the director of counterterrorism doesn't think Iran was an immediate threat and has resigned in protest. Shouldn't he know?

[Weyoun]

Well, it is very reassuring that SSS doesn't believe Iran was a threat to us or to anyone else. It is unfortunate for both me and President Trump that we just don't have the information sources, the intelligence and the ability to read other people's minds and motives that SSS does. Another useful ability that SSS possesses is the ability to block out and ignore facts and opinions that he disagrees with. So, full speed ahead, SSS. Find more irrelevant bullshit to throw at trump. Since we are now in this conflict I will continue to pray and do everything I can to support our country achieving the end game of a middle east without a radical, terrorist Iran. You are free to continue to do what you have been doing for years: bashing Donald Trump.

We've not seen a single report discussing any evidence of an actual threat.

OTOH it's been said that Kushner and Witkoff totally misunderstood the specifics of what Iran could do - and that only makes sense, as they are real estate agents we put in charge of a complex negotiation.

Others involved peripherally have also said that Iran was willing to concede a great deal.

Now Iran doesn't have to concede anything, since they can keep up this low level chaos for the foreseeable future.

[tlynn78]

Well, it is very reassuring that SSS doesn't believe Iran was a threat to us or to anyone else. It is unfortunate for both me and President Trump that we just don't have the information sources, the intelligence and the ability to read other people's minds and motives that SSS does. Another useful ability that SSS possesses is the ability to block out and ignore facts and opinions that he disagrees with. So, full speed ahead, SSS. Find more irrelevant bullshit to throw at trump. Since we are now in this conflict I will continue to pray and do everything I can to support our country achieving the end game of a middle east without a radical, terrorist Iran. You are free to continue to do what you have been doing for years: bashing Donald Trump.

Well, the director of counterterrorism doesn't think Iran was an immediate threat and has resigned in protest. Shouldn't he know?

Here's an interesting take on the Director's resignation:

It's surprising that a man who served under both Republican and Democrat presidents would disagree with the Commander in Chief to such a great extent that he'd just walk away from protecting a nation that he so clearly loves... and is currently facing such a high terror threat level.
And he's disagreeing based on assumptions and false information. Speaker Johnson: "I don't know where Joe Kent is getting his information, but he wasn't in those briefings clearly...they had exquisite intelligence that we understood this was a serious moment for us."
Through my companies, I have very high level relationships in the administration who confirmed that Kent was not part of regular briefings... and ACTUAL intelligence shows what a direct and imminent threat Iran was.
Here's where things get interesting. This is different from when Kent previously left the military and spoke out against the war on terror. Here's why.
In December, Kent said this:
"So far, NCTC has identified around 18,000 known and suspected terrorists that the Biden Administration let come into our country. These are individuals, who, under normal circumstances, would never be allowed to enter our country because of their ties to Jihadist groups like ISIS and Al-Qaeda. Yet, the Biden Administration not only let them into the country, in many cases, facilitated their entry into the country."
During meetings with Trump officials in DC last week, it was very apparent that this Iran crisis has drastically increased the terror threat here in America... at the same time that Democrats have handcuffed DHS, leaving us wide open to terror attacks.
Did Kent see that what's happening in Iran is going to lead to a number of imminent terror attacks on the homeland... and he doesn't want those to be on his watch? If so... why not stay and fight?

[Weyoun]

Who knows? The president hasn’t bothered with a primetime address showing what we know. Even Colin Powell bothered showing pictures to the UN.

[kroxquo]

Well, it is very reassuring that SSS doesn't believe Iran was a threat to us or to anyone else. It is unfortunate for both me and President Trump that we just don't have the information sources, the intelligence and the ability to read other people's minds and motives that SSS does. Another useful ability that SSS possesses is the ability to block out and ignore facts and opinions that he disagrees with. So, full speed ahead, SSS. Find more irrelevant bullshit to throw at trump. Since we are now in this conflict I will continue to pray and do everything I can to support our country achieving the end game of a middle east without a radical, terrorist Iran. You are free to continue to do what you have been doing for years: bashing Donald Trump.

Well, the director of counterterrorism doesn't think Iran was an immediate threat and has resigned in protest. Shouldn't he know?

Here's an interesting take on the Director's resignation:

It's surprising that a man who served under both Republican and Democrat presidents would disagree with the Commander in Chief to such a great extent that he'd just walk away from protecting a nation that he so clearly loves... and is currently facing such a high terror threat level.
And he's disagreeing based on assumptions and false information. Speaker Johnson: "I don't know where Joe Kent is getting his information, but he wasn't in those briefings clearly...they had exquisite intelligence that we understood this was a serious moment for us."
Through my companies, I have very high level relationships in the administration who confirmed that Kent was not part of regular briefings... and ACTUAL intelligence shows what a direct and imminent threat Iran was.
Here's where things get interesting. This is different from when Kent previously left the military and spoke out against the war on terror. Here's why.
In December, Kent said this:
"So far, NCTC has identified around 18,000 known and suspected terrorists that the Biden Administration let come into our country. These are individuals, who, under normal circumstances, would never be allowed to enter our country because of their ties to Jihadist groups like ISIS and Al-Qaeda. Yet, the Biden Administration not only let them into the country, in many cases, facilitated their entry into the country."
During meetings with Trump officials in DC last week, it was very apparent that this Iran crisis has drastically increased the terror threat here in America... at the same time that Democrats have handcuffed DHS, leaving us wide open to terror attacks.
Did Kent see that what's happening in Iran is going to lead to a number of imminent terror attacks on the homeland... and he doesn't want those to be on his watch? If so... why not stay and fight?

This begs the question - If Speaker Johnson is correct, then why wasn't the Director of Counterterrorism included on briefings about action against one of the leaders of state-sponsored terrorism?

[flockofseagulls104]

Well, the director of counterterrorism doesn't think Iran was an immediate threat and has resigned in protest. Shouldn't he know?

Here's an interesting take on the Director's resignation:

It's surprising that a man who served under both Republican and Democrat presidents would disagree with the Commander in Chief to such a great extent that he'd just walk away from protecting a nation that he so clearly loves... and is currently facing such a high terror threat level.
And he's disagreeing based on assumptions and false information. Speaker Johnson: "I don't know where Joe Kent is getting his information, but he wasn't in those briefings clearly...they had exquisite intelligence that we understood this was a serious moment for us."
Through my companies, I have very high level relationships in the administration who confirmed that Kent was not part of regular briefings... and ACTUAL intelligence shows what a direct and imminent threat Iran was.
Here's where things get interesting. This is different from when Kent previously left the military and spoke out against the war on terror. Here's why.
In December, Kent said this:
"So far, NCTC has identified around 18,000 known and suspected terrorists that the Biden Administration let come into our country. These are individuals, who, under normal circumstances, would never be allowed to enter our country because of their ties to Jihadist groups like ISIS and Al-Qaeda. Yet, the Biden Administration not only let them into the country, in many cases, facilitated their entry into the country."
During meetings with Trump officials in DC last week, it was very apparent that this Iran crisis has drastically increased the terror threat here in America... at the same time that Democrats have handcuffed DHS, leaving us wide open to terror attacks.
Did Kent see that what's happening in Iran is going to lead to a number of imminent terror attacks on the homeland... and he doesn't want those to be on his watch? If so... why not stay and fight?

This begs the question - If Speaker Johnson is correct, then why wasn't the Director of Counterterrorism included on briefings about action against one of the leaders of state-sponsored terrorism?

Perhaps because he was under investigation for leaking classified information?

[Weyoun]

Here's an interesting take on the Director's resignation:

It's surprising that a man who served under both Republican and Democrat presidents would disagree with the Commander in Chief to such a great extent that he'd just walk away from protecting a nation that he so clearly loves... and is currently facing such a high terror threat level.
And he's disagreeing based on assumptions and false information. Speaker Johnson: "I don't know where Joe Kent is getting his information, but he wasn't in those briefings clearly...they had exquisite intelligence that we understood this was a serious moment for us."
Through my companies, I have very high level relationships in the administration who confirmed that Kent was not part of regular briefings... and ACTUAL intelligence shows what a direct and imminent threat Iran was.
Here's where things get interesting. This is different from when Kent previously left the military and spoke out against the war on terror. Here's why.
In December, Kent said this:
"So far, NCTC has identified around 18,000 known and suspected terrorists that the Biden Administration let come into our country. These are individuals, who, under normal circumstances, would never be allowed to enter our country because of their ties to Jihadist groups like ISIS and Al-Qaeda. Yet, the Biden Administration not only let them into the country, in many cases, facilitated their entry into the country."
During meetings with Trump officials in DC last week, it was very apparent that this Iran crisis has drastically increased the terror threat here in America... at the same time that Democrats have handcuffed DHS, leaving us wide open to terror attacks.
Did Kent see that what's happening in Iran is going to lead to a number of imminent terror attacks on the homeland... and he doesn't want those to be on his watch? If so... why not stay and fight?

This begs the question - If Speaker Johnson is correct, then why wasn't the Director of Counterterrorism included on briefings about action against one of the leaders of state-sponsored terrorism?

Perhaps because he was under investigation for leaking classified information?

The amount of moral panic you had over Rachel Levine holding some minor function in HHS - yet there's this guy, a complete raging anti-Semite, and you are like "well the problem is that he was a traitor so we denied him access to sensitive information." And that is supposed to be a DEFENSE of Trump's judgment?