Ok. I’ll accept my fate.
Please reveal to me what it is.
Or just tell each other to fuck off so we don't lose what wispy hair may be trailing during our rantings?wbtravis007 wrote: ↑Tue May 21, 2024 6:11 pmHow ‘bout if we just don’t worry our pretty little heads about what we each respectively find to be abhorrent.
The irony of all this is that Freeman and Moss ARE guilty of election fraud.silverscreenselect wrote: ↑Wed May 22, 2024 3:02 pmRudy Giuliani has agreed not to accuse Georgia election workers Ruby Freeman and Shaye Moss of election fraud any more as part of a settlement of their second defamation suit against him. This doesn't affect the first suit, which ended in a $148 million verdict for the pair. Giuliani also pled not guilty yesterday and posted a $10,000 bond in the Arizona fake electors case.
It cost Rudy Giuliani $148 million to say that.flockofseagulls104 wrote: ↑Wed May 22, 2024 8:28 pmThe irony of all this is that Freeman and Moss ARE guilty of election fraud.
Doesn't mean he was wrong. Means Freeman and Moss picked the right lawyers with the money and pull to fix the verdict.silverscreenselect wrote: ↑Wed May 22, 2024 8:42 pmIt cost Rudy Giuliani $148 million to say that.flockofseagulls104 wrote: ↑Wed May 22, 2024 8:28 pmThe irony of all this is that Freeman and Moss ARE guilty of election fraud.
Yes, they are. There was a full recount in Georgia one week after the election. In that recount, Trump gained a little over 900 net votes in Fulton County in that recount. After that recount (and a second recount), Biden won by 11, 779 votes, which led to the January call to Brad Raffensperger, "Find me 11, 780 votes." Trump and his backers filed three different lawsuits in Georgia after the 2020 election and lost all three. Here's the report on what happened at the Georgia Election Board earlier this month:flockofseagulls104 wrote: ↑Wed May 22, 2024 9:44 pmBTW, trollboy, are Trump's claims still baseless?
Were there mistakes made in Fulton County? Yes, but there are mistakes in every election. There were mistakes in Trump's favor in other counties. Was there fraud? No. Did the mistakes change the results of the election? No. And Trump implicitly realized this when he confirmed the result to Raffensperger by asking for one more than we had, e.g. the 11,779 Biden won by. Were Trump's claims baseless? Yes. No fraud and no mistakes sufficient to possibly change the election results. Further, whatever mistakes were made in the original count were corrected in the recount and that's the official result, and the result Trump's people challenged three times in court and lost.The State Election Board reprimanded Fulton County and ordered an independent election monitor Tuesday, finding that the county likely scanned over 3,000 ballots twice during the recount of the 2020 presidential election. The case exposed errors in Fulton’s 2020 recount but didn’t indicate any fraud in the election, which Democrat Joe Biden won by a 11,779-vote margin in Georgia over Republican Donald Trump. Three vote counts — two by machine and one by hand — each showed similar results.
Election investigators said they were unable to confirm that the double-scanned ballots were actually counted twice in the recount, which was the official result of the election. During the recount, Trump gained 939 net votes against Biden in Fulton County, where Biden received 73% support, according to the results. But state election officials said the election was accurate and all votes were counted.
I suggest you find and view the entire meeting instead of quoting the AJC or whatever rag you got that flimsy excuse from. What it came down to is that there was no way for anyone else to verify any of the counts that the SOS came up with. There is absolutely no transparency, which is MANDATED by federal law. Every 'recount' came up with different numbers, and in contempt of legal mandates, the SOS will not let anyone even see the actual ballots cast, if they haven't already destroyed them. It has been shown to be a complete fiasco. The ONLY source of who won the Georgia election in 2020 is the SOS. Fulton County and the SOS have violated 140 state election laws, they are missing or will not turn over documentation that they are legally mandated to. They have no explanation for the concrete evidence that Rossi presented, and no one is, at this point, being held accountable because of one man: Ed Lindsey.silverscreenselect wrote: ↑Wed May 22, 2024 10:12 pmYes, they are. There was a full recount in Georgia one week after the election. In that recount, Trump gained a little over 900 net votes in Fulton County in that recount. After that recount (and a second recount), Biden won by 11, 779 votes, which led to the January call to Brad Raffensperger, "Find me 11, 780 votes." Trump and his backers filed three different lawsuits in Georgia after the 2020 election and lost all three. Here's the report on what happened at the Georgia Election Board earlier this month:flockofseagulls104 wrote: ↑Wed May 22, 2024 9:44 pmBTW, trollboy, are Trump's claims still baseless?
Were there mistakes made in Fulton County? Yes, but there are mistakes in every election. There were mistakes in Trump's favor in other counties. Was there fraud? No. Did the mistakes change the results of the election? No. And Trump implicitly realized this when he confirmed the result to Raffensperger by asking for one more than we had, e.g. the 11,779 Biden won by. Were Trump's claims baseless? Yes. No fraud and no mistakes sufficient to possibly change the election results. Further, whatever mistakes were made in the original count were corrected in the recount and that's the official result, and the result Trump's people challenged three times in court and lost.The State Election Board reprimanded Fulton County and ordered an independent election monitor Tuesday, finding that the county likely scanned over 3,000 ballots twice during the recount of the 2020 presidential election. The case exposed errors in Fulton’s 2020 recount but didn’t indicate any fraud in the election, which Democrat Joe Biden won by a 11,779-vote margin in Georgia over Republican Donald Trump. Three vote counts — two by machine and one by hand — each showed similar results.
Election investigators said they were unable to confirm that the double-scanned ballots were actually counted twice in the recount, which was the official result of the election. During the recount, Trump gained 939 net votes against Biden in Fulton County, where Biden received 73% support, according to the results. But state election officials said the election was accurate and all votes were counted.
And for what it's worth, the state has changed the machines used in the 2020 election and Fulton County has implemented better safeguards, which have been noted in the several elections held there since 2020.
Out of curiosity, Flock, how do you know there wasn't any voter fraud in North Carolina or Florida or any other state that Trump won? I'm sure Democrats could have found reasons to file 60 baseless lawsuits in those states if they wanted to. Or how do you know there wasn't voter fraud in those 100 or more smaller counties that Trump won here in Georgia? We know for sure they broke into one election office in Coffee County. They might not have been so clumsy in other counties. We also know for sure that the vice-chairman of the Georgia Republican Party, who kept claiming there was voter fraud in the 2020 election, was guilty of voter fraud himself, nine times in different elections. (The statute of limitations has run on those, so he can't be prosecuted.)flockofseagulls104 wrote: ↑Wed May 22, 2024 11:06 pmI'd say that there is a very strong basis for questioning the results of the 2020 Georgia election. And so would any other reasoning person who doesn't suffer from an extreme case of TDS. And because of the SEB's findings that the counts are in question, there is basis for questioning the results of the entire National election.
Nice try.silverscreenselect wrote: ↑Thu May 23, 2024 12:36 amOut of curiosity, Flock, how do you know there wasn't any voter fraud in North Carolina or Florida or any other state that Trump won? I'm sure Democrats could have found reasons to file 60 baseless lawsuits in those states if they wanted to. Or how do you know there wasn't voter fraud in those 100 or more smaller counties that Trump won here in Georgia? We know for sure they broke into one election office in Coffee County. They might not have been so clumsy in other counties. We also know for sure that the vice-chairman of the Georgia Republican Party, who kept claiming there was voter fraud in the 2020 election, was guilty of voter fraud himself, nine times in different elections. (The statute of limitations has run on those, so he can't be prosecuted.)flockofseagulls104 wrote: ↑Wed May 22, 2024 11:06 pmI'd say that there is a very strong basis for questioning the results of the 2020 Georgia election. And so would any other reasoning person who doesn't suffer from an extreme case of TDS. And because of the SEB's findings that the counts are in question, there is basis for questioning the results of the entire National election.
The New York statutes that Trump will stand trial for violating are not unique: at least six other states have adopted substantively identical statutes. The New York statute prohibiting falsifying business records in the second degree (a misdemeanor) provides as follows:
A person is guilty of falsifying business records in the second degree when, with intent to defraud, he:
Makes or causes a false entry in the business records of an enterprise; or
Alters, erases, obliterates, deletes, removes or destroys a true entry in the business records of an enterprise; or
Omits to make a true entry in the business records of an enterprise in violation of a duty to do so which he knows to be imposed upon him by law or by the nature of his position; or
Prevents the making of a true entry or causes the omission thereof in the business records of an enterprise.
Falsifying business records in the second degree is a class A misdemeanor.
The statute prohibiting falsifying business records in the first degree (a felony) requires an additional element:
A person is guilty of falsifying business records in the first degree when he commits the crime of falsifying business records in the second degree, and when his intent to defraud includes an intent to commit another crime or to aid or conceal the commission thereof.
Falsifying business records in the first degree is a class E felony.
Amazingly, every other higher authority that this issue came across decided not to pursue it. One of Obama and Biden's chief legal advisors quit and took a big demotion apparently in order to get this jurisdiction to pursue this issue. It comes down to a category assigned in a ledger for payments to a lawyer. We've spent millions of dollars, weeks of media coverage and more lawfare on whether someone recorded this as 'Legal Expense' or 'Campaign Expense'. Really? For an event that probably never even happened? The supposedly injured party (which has NOTHING to do with what is supposedly the question of this case) denied in writing and publicly that the underlying event NEVER OCCURED! The highly conflicted judge has violated people's FIRST AMENDMENT rights in pursuit of a guilty verdict. Again: WHO WAS DEFRAUDED OF WHAT? You people with TDS are certifiably insane.silverscreenselect wrote: ↑Tue May 28, 2024 8:30 amClosing arguments today. The defense goes first and has 2 1/2 hours, then the prosecution has 4 1/2 hours. There's no rebuttal or reservation of time, so when the defense sits down this afternoon, that's the end of their argument. The judge will give jury instructions tomorrow (this week is the only time the court is meeting on Wednesday), followed by deliberations.
My prediction is that they convict on 32 of the 34 counts. There were 11 checks, and Trump is charged with one felony for each check, each invoice for "legal services" that backed the check, and for each ledger entry. There's an additional count for an additional fraudulent ledger entry as well. The first two checks to Cohen were written from the Trump trust and signed by Don, Jr., and Eric. The last nine checks were written on Trump's personal account and signed by him. The jury might find it possible that Trump Jr. and Eric weren't privy to what their father was doing with Michael Cohen and David Pecker.
And to answer Flock's last question, Trump is being prosecuted for business fraud. Here's what the statutes say:
The New York statutes that Trump will stand trial for violating are not unique: at least six other states have adopted substantively identical statutes. The New York statute prohibiting falsifying business records in the second degree (a misdemeanor) provides as follows:
A person is guilty of falsifying business records in the second degree when, with intent to defraud, he:
Makes or causes a false entry in the business records of an enterprise; or
Alters, erases, obliterates, deletes, removes or destroys a true entry in the business records of an enterprise; or
Omits to make a true entry in the business records of an enterprise in violation of a duty to do so which he knows to be imposed upon him by law or by the nature of his position; or
Prevents the making of a true entry or causes the omission thereof in the business records of an enterprise.
Falsifying business records in the second degree is a class A misdemeanor.
The statute prohibiting falsifying business records in the first degree (a felony) requires an additional element:
A person is guilty of falsifying business records in the first degree when he commits the crime of falsifying business records in the second degree, and when his intent to defraud includes an intent to commit another crime or to aid or conceal the commission thereof.
Falsifying business records in the first degree is a class E felony.
Guess you didn’t try to get brought up-to-date by your friend who lives in South Texas or anybody. Just the same old flawed talking points.flockofseagulls104 wrote: ↑Tue May 28, 2024 12:22 pmAmazingly, every other higher authority that this issue came across decided not to pursue it. One of Obama and Biden's chief legal advisors quit and took a big demotion apparently in order to get this jurisdiction to pursue this issue. It comes down to a category assigned in a ledger for payments to a lawyer. We've spent millions of dollars, weeks of media coverage and more lawfare on whether someone recorded this as 'Legal Expense' or 'Campaign Expense'. Really? For an event that probably never even happened? The supposedly injured party (which has NOTHING to do with what is supposedly the question of this case) denied in writing and publicly that the underlying event NEVER OCCURED! The highly conflicted judge has violated people's FIRST AMENDMENT rights in pursuit of a guilty verdict. Again: WHO WAS DEFRAUDED OF WHAT? You people with TDS are certifiably insane.silverscreenselect wrote: ↑Tue May 28, 2024 8:30 amClosing arguments today. The defense goes first and has 2 1/2 hours, then the prosecution has 4 1/2 hours. There's no rebuttal or reservation of time, so when the defense sits down this afternoon, that's the end of their argument. The judge will give jury instructions tomorrow (this week is the only time the court is meeting on Wednesday), followed by deliberations.
My prediction is that they convict on 32 of the 34 counts. There were 11 checks, and Trump is charged with one felony for each check, each invoice for "legal services" that backed the check, and for each ledger entry. There's an additional count for an additional fraudulent ledger entry as well. The first two checks to Cohen were written from the Trump trust and signed by Don, Jr., and Eric. The last nine checks were written on Trump's personal account and signed by him. The jury might find it possible that Trump Jr. and Eric weren't privy to what their father was doing with Michael Cohen and David Pecker.
And to answer Flock's last question, Trump is being prosecuted for business fraud. Here's what the statutes say:
The New York statutes that Trump will stand trial for violating are not unique: at least six other states have adopted substantively identical statutes. The New York statute prohibiting falsifying business records in the second degree (a misdemeanor) provides as follows:
A person is guilty of falsifying business records in the second degree when, with intent to defraud, he:
Makes or causes a false entry in the business records of an enterprise; or
Alters, erases, obliterates, deletes, removes or destroys a true entry in the business records of an enterprise; or
Omits to make a true entry in the business records of an enterprise in violation of a duty to do so which he knows to be imposed upon him by law or by the nature of his position; or
Prevents the making of a true entry or causes the omission thereof in the business records of an enterprise.
Falsifying business records in the second degree is a class A misdemeanor.
The statute prohibiting falsifying business records in the first degree (a felony) requires an additional element:
A person is guilty of falsifying business records in the first degree when he commits the crime of falsifying business records in the second degree, and when his intent to defraud includes an intent to commit another crime or to aid or conceal the commission thereof.
Falsifying business records in the first degree is a class E felony.