Obama the Community Organizer

[silverscreenselect]

Here's the best article I have been able to find about Obama's community organizing efforts.

http://tinyurl.com/6j3psd

Obama attempted to put these principles into practice in South Chicago. Kellman and Kruglik's initial objective was to revive the region's manufacturing base--and preserve what remained of its steel industry--by working with unions and church groups to pressure companies and the city; but those hopes were quickly dashed. Indeed, during his three years in South Chicago, Obama was constantly having to scale back his objectives as one project after another faltered. First, he got community members to demand a job center that would provide job referrals, but there were few jobs to distribute. Then, he tried to create what he called a "second-level consumer economy" in Roseland consisting of shops, restaurants, and theaters. This, too, went nowhere. At that point, Kellman advised Obama to move elsewhere. "Stay here, and you are bound to fail," he told him.

But Obama remained. Next, he began to focus on providing social services for Altgeld Gardens. "We didn't yet have the power to change state welfare policy, or create local jobs, or bring substantially more money into the schools," he wrote. "But what we could do was begin to improve basic services at Altgeld--get the toilets fixed, the heaters working, the windows repaired." Obama helped the residents wage a successful campaign to get the Chicago Housing Authority to promise to remove asbestos from the units; but, after an initial burst of activity, the city failed to keep its promise. (As of last year, some residences still had not been cleared of asbestos.) In waging these campaigns, Obama's organization added staff, gained adherents, and won church support, including from the congregation of Reverend Jeremiah Wright. But it failed to stem the area's overall decline. "Ain't nothing gonna change, Mr. Obama," says one resident quoted in Dreams from My Father who grows disillusioned with the Developing Communities Project. "We just gonna concentrate on saving our money so we can move outta here as fast as we can."

Translation: Obama was a failure at community organizing who soon realized that he could be more successful in getting elected that in getting results.

[earendel]

Here's the best article I have been able to find about Obama's community organizing efforts.

http://tinyurl.com/6j3psd

Obama attempted to put these principles into practice in South Chicago. Kellman and Kruglik's initial objective was to revive the region's manufacturing base--and preserve what remained of its steel industry--by working with unions and church groups to pressure companies and the city; but those hopes were quickly dashed. Indeed, during his three years in South Chicago, Obama was constantly having to scale back his objectives as one project after another faltered. First, he got community members to demand a job center that would provide job referrals, but there were few jobs to distribute. Then, he tried to create what he called a "second-level consumer economy" in Roseland consisting of shops, restaurants, and theaters. This, too, went nowhere. At that point, Kellman advised Obama to move elsewhere. "Stay here, and you are bound to fail," he told him.

But Obama remained. Next, he began to focus on providing social services for Altgeld Gardens. "We didn't yet have the power to change state welfare policy, or create local jobs, or bring substantially more money into the schools," he wrote. "But what we could do was begin to improve basic services at Altgeld--get the toilets fixed, the heaters working, the windows repaired." Obama helped the residents wage a successful campaign to get the Chicago Housing Authority to promise to remove asbestos from the units; but, after an initial burst of activity, the city failed to keep its promise. (As of last year, some residences still had not been cleared of asbestos.) In waging these campaigns, Obama's organization added staff, gained adherents, and won church support, including from the congregation of Reverend Jeremiah Wright. But it failed to stem the area's overall decline. "Ain't nothing gonna change, Mr. Obama," says one resident quoted in Dreams from My Father who grows disillusioned with the Developing Communities Project. "We just gonna concentrate on saving our money so we can move outta here as fast as we can."

Translation: Obama was a failure at community organizing who soon realized that he could be more successful in getting elected that in getting results.

That's one way to read it. Another way to read it is to see the community as so disheartened that nothing and no one could possibly be successful. Sometimes, no matter how skillful one may be, some people can't be helped. I think it's interesting that despite being advised to go elsewhere because he was "bound to fail" he persisted. IOW he didn't take the easy way out but continued to make the effort.

[BackInTex]

That's one way to read it. Another way to read it is to see the community as so disheartened that nothing and no one could possibly be successful. Sometimes, no matter how skillful one may be, some people can't be helped. I think it's interesting that despite being advised to go elsewhere because he was "bound to fail" he persisted. IOW he didn't take the easy way out but continued to make the effort.

Hmmm....this sounds familiar. Where have I heard/seen this recently?.....

Oh, yeah. Bush on Iraq.

So, if you want 4 more years of the same old stubborn not willing to admit mistakes, vote for Obama!

[gsabc]

That's one way to read it. Another way to read it is to see the community as so disheartened that nothing and no one could possibly be successful. Sometimes, no matter how skillful one may be, some people can't be helped. I think it's interesting that despite being advised to go elsewhere because he was "bound to fail" he persisted. IOW he didn't take the easy way out but continued to make the effort.

Hmmm....this sounds familiar. Where have I heard/seen this recently?.....

Oh, yeah. Bush on Iraq.

So, if you want 4 more years of the same old stubborn not willing to admit mistakes, vote for Obama!

At least they'll be new mistakes. But then, Obama was just refusing to admit defeat.

Wait.

Maybe they won't be so new.

[Spock]

Another thread (and other places) have pointed out that Gandhi was a political organizer.

I happen to be reading a book on WW2 in the CBI theater and implicit throughout so far are the problems and delays Gandhi caused to the Allied War effort.

Several years ago-I read a book by Theodore White that touched on many of the same topics.

The thought went through my mind-I wonder how many Hundreds of Thousands of lives (chiefly Chinese and Japanese) were lost by Gandhi's "Community Organizing" efforts?

[silvercamaro]

Here's a job description from Saul Alinsky, who IIRC was Hillary's mentor and former employer, via http://tinyurl.com/56ucue

Perhaps the simplest way to describe community organizing is to say it is the practice of identifying a specific aggrieved population, say unemployed steelworkers, or itinerant fruit-pickers, or residents of a particularly bad neighborhood, and agitating them until they become so upset about their condition that they take collective action to put pressure on local, state, or federal officials to fix the problem, often by giving the affected group money. Organizers like to call that “direct action.”

Community organizing is most identified with the left-wing Chicago activist Saul Alinsky (1909-72), who pretty much defined the profession. In his classic book, Rules for Radicals, Alinsky wrote that a successful organizer should be “an abrasive agent to rub raw the resentments of the people of the community; to fan latent hostilities of many of the people to the point of overt expressions.” Once such hostilities were “whipped up to a fighting pitch,” Alinsky continued, the organizer steered his group toward confrontation, in the form of picketing, demonstrating, and general hell-raising.

I know that some community organizers have achieved good things for their consitutents, such as helping to create neighborhood health clinics and job skills assistance. Some have done less. The idea of taking unhappy people and helping them toward outrage seems neither particularly helpful to society nor difficult, however. I would not consider most community organizers to have gained "executive experience," unless I confused manipulation with management.

[wbtravis007]

This is from Wikipedia:

After four years in New York City, Obama moved to Chicago to work as a community organizer for three years from June 1985 to May 1988 as director of the Developing Communities Project (DCP), a church-based community organization originally comprising eight Catholic parishes in Greater Roseland (Roseland, West Pullman, and Riverdale) on Chicago's far South Side.[12][14] During his three years as the DCP's director, its staff grew from 1 to 13 and its annual budget grew from $70,000 to $400,000, with accomplishments including helping set up a job training program, a college preparatory tutoring program, and a tenants' rights organization in Altgeld Gardens.[15] Obama also worked as a consultant and instructor for the Gamaliel Foundation, a community organizing institute.[16] ...

Obama entered Harvard Law School in late 1988 and at the end of his first year was selected as an editor of the Harvard Law Review based on his grades and a writing competition.[18] In his second year he was elected president of the Law Review, a full-time volunteer position functioning as editor-in-chief and supervising the law review's staff of 80 editors.[19] Obama's election in February 1990 as the first black president of the Harvard Law Review was widely reported and followed by several long, detailed profiles.[19] He graduated with a Juris Doctor (J.D.) magna cum laude from Harvard in 1991 and returned to Chicago where he had worked as a summer associate at the law firms of Sidley & Austin in 1989 and Hopkins & Sutter in 1990.[18][20]

The publicity from his election as the first black president of the Harvard Law Review led to a contract and advance to write a book about race relations.[21] In an effort to recruit him to their faculty, the University of Chicago Law School provided Obama with a fellowship and an office to work on his book.[21]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barack_Obama

[wbtravis007]

Here's the best article I have been able to find about Obama's community organizing efforts.

http://tinyurl.com/6j3psd



Translation: Obama was a failure at community organizing who soon realized that he could be more successful in getting elected that in getting results.

I just read enough of your link to see that your "translation" is a little off- base.

Boy, was I ever surprised about that!

[themanintheseersuckersuit]

This is from Wikipedia:


Obama entered Harvard Law School in late 1988 and at the end of his first year was selected as an editor of the Harvard Law Review based on his grades and a writing competition.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barack_Obama

Oh he's released his Harvard transcripts now?

[wbtravis007]

Here's a job description from Saul Alinsky, who IIRC was Hillary's mentor and former employer, via http://tinyurl.com/56ucue

Perhaps the simplest way to describe community organizing is to say it is the practice of identifying a specific aggrieved population, say unemployed steelworkers, or itinerant fruit-pickers, or residents of a particularly bad neighborhood, and agitating them until they become so upset about their condition that they take collective action to put pressure on local, state, or federal officials to fix the problem, often by giving the affected group money. Organizers like to call that “direct action.”

Community organizing is most identified with the left-wing Chicago activist Saul Alinsky (1909-72), who pretty much defined the profession. In his classic book, Rules for Radicals, Alinsky wrote that a successful organizer should be “an abrasive agent to rub raw the resentments of the people of the community; to fan latent hostilities of many of the people to the point of overt expressions.” Once such hostilities were “whipped up to a fighting pitch,” Alinsky continued, the organizer steered his group toward confrontation, in the form of picketing, demonstrating, and general hell-raising.

I know that some community organizers have achieved good things for their consitutents, such as helping to create neighborhood health clinics and job skills assistance. Some have done less. The idea of taking unhappy people and helping them toward outrage seems neither particularly helpful to society nor difficult, however. I would not consider most community organizers to have gained "executive experience," unless I confused manipulation with management.

"I would not consider most community organizers to have gained "executive experience," unless I confused manipulation with management."

Without addressing whether you are confusing manipulation with management, or whether you are right that community service in most instances doesn't involve difficult work or provide executive experience, I'm wondering what you have seen or heard from Obama along the lines of a claim that his work was either particularly difficult or provided executive experience.

[wbtravis007]

This is from Wikipedia:


Obama entered Harvard Law School in late 1988 and at the end of his first year was selected as an editor of the Harvard Law Review based on his grades and a writing competition.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barack_Obama

Oh he's released his Harvard transcripts now?

I don't get this. I know I'm missing something.

[themanintheseersuckersuit]

This is from Wikipedia:


Obama entered Harvard Law School in late 1988 and at the end of his first year was selected as an editor of the Harvard Law Review based on his grades and a writing competition.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barack_Obama

Oh he's released his Harvard transcripts now?

I don't get this. I know I'm missing something.

Really just another example of the various paranoid rantings from both the right and left. Some have tried to make a issue of Mr. Obama's education. Which is probably in the same lame category with his birth certificate

for example http://sweetness-light.com/archive/what ... s-mr-obama

[silvercamaro]

I'm wondering what you have seen or heard from Obama along the lines of a claim that his work was either particularly difficult or provided executive experience.

I don't know if Obama himself has stated such a claim. Some of his supporters have, though. Detractors of Sarah Palin were quick to say (I'm paraphrasing), "She doesn't have enough executive experience to be vice president." Her supporters answered, "She has more executive experience than Obama." The Obama camp responded (and, yes, I'm still paraphrasing,) "Obama's time as a community organizer provided him with executive experience." Never mind that they were trying to say that their presidential candidate was nearly as well qualified, in that sense, as the opposition's vice presidential candidate, but I thought it was a weak argument under any circumstances.

Nevertheless, as Frank Tangredi pointed out with eloquence, history has proven that such experience is not the most important factor in whether any individual will make a good president. Still, this thread was about community organizing, so that is the specific topic I was addressing.

[silverscreenselect]

This is from Wikipedia:

After four years in New York City, Obama moved to Chicago to work as a community organizer for three years from June 1985 to May 1988 as director of the Developing Communities Project (DCP), a church-based community organization originally comprising eight Catholic parishes in Greater Roseland (Roseland, West Pullman, and Riverdale) on Chicago's far South Side.[12][14] During his three years as the DCP's director, its staff grew from 1 to 13 and its annual budget grew from $70,000 to $400,000, with accomplishments including helping set up a job training program, a college preparatory tutoring program, and a tenants' rights organization in Altgeld Gardens.[15] Obama also worked as a consultant and instructor for the Gamaliel Foundation, a community organizing institute.[16] ...

As the article I quoted indicated, Obama's "accomplishments" didn't help improve the lives of the community very much, in ways such as finding jobs or getting rid of the asbestos in their apartments.

Contrast it to Sarah Palin's accomplishments as mayor of Wasilla in expanding the city's population and tax base, getting a sports complex built and essentially turning a stagnant bedroom community into a prominent, growing suburb of Anchorage.

[Bob Juch]

This is from Wikipedia:

After four years in New York City, Obama moved to Chicago to work as a community organizer for three years from June 1985 to May 1988 as director of the Developing Communities Project (DCP), a church-based community organization originally comprising eight Catholic parishes in Greater Roseland (Roseland, West Pullman, and Riverdale) on Chicago's far South Side.[12][14] During his three years as the DCP's director, its staff grew from 1 to 13 and its annual budget grew from $70,000 to $400,000, with accomplishments including helping set up a job training program, a college preparatory tutoring program, and a tenants' rights organization in Altgeld Gardens.[15] Obama also worked as a consultant and instructor for the Gamaliel Foundation, a community organizing institute.[16] ...

As the article I quoted indicated, Obama's "accomplishments" didn't help improve the lives of the community very much, in ways such as finding jobs or getting rid of the asbestos in their apartments.

Contrast it to Sarah Palin's accomplishments as mayor of Wasilla in expanding the city's population and tax base, getting a sports complex built and essentially turning a stagnant bedroom community into a prominent, growing suburb of Anchorage.

Who the hell wants to live in a growing suburb? It's a pain in the ass. Especially since they didn't improve the roads in Wasilla.

[Appa23]

This is from Wikipedia:

After four years in New York City, Obama moved to Chicago to work as a community organizer for three years from June 1985 to May 1988 as director of the Developing Communities Project (DCP), a church-based community organization originally comprising eight Catholic parishes in Greater Roseland (Roseland, West Pullman, and Riverdale) on Chicago's far South Side.[12][14] During his three years as the DCP's director, its staff grew from 1 to 13 and its annual budget grew from $70,000 to $400,000, with accomplishments including helping set up a job training program, a college preparatory tutoring program, and a tenants' rights organization in Altgeld Gardens.[15] Obama also worked as a consultant and instructor for the Gamaliel Foundation, a community organizing institute.[16] ...

As the article I quoted indicated, Obama's "accomplishments" didn't help improve the lives of the community very much, in ways such as finding jobs or getting rid of the asbestos in their apartments.

Contrast it to Sarah Palin's accomplishments as mayor of Wasilla in expanding the city's population and tax base, getting a sports complex built and essentially turning a stagnant bedroom community into a prominent, growing suburb of Anchorage.

Who the hell wants to live in a growing suburb? It's a pain in the ass. Especially since they didn't improve the roads in Wasilla.

Wow! The Almighty Juch has even lived in Wasilla!

[gotribego26]

Hmmm....this sounds familiar. Where have I heard/seen this recently?.....

Oh, yeah. Bush on Iraq.

Except there were military folks telling him how to fix things - he listened to Rumsfeld/Cheney for too long before finally let the military guys implement a startegy that would work.

[gotribego26]

Who the hell wants to live in a growing suburb? It's a pain in the ass. Especially since they didn't improve the roads in Wasilla.

I've lived in non-growing suburbs on the Eastern side of Cleveland as well as growing Suburbs in Denver and Charlotte - for all the bad that comes with growing suburbs, I'll take them over the stagnant suburbs I lived near Cleveland - the roads there were in no better shape and every bit as crowded.

[5LD]

I am confused by the comparisons.

By my calculations, Palin has been in elected office for around 8 years and Obama has been in elected office for 10.

About 6 of Palin's years as an elected official were as Mayor of a town of 7500ish folks.

About 7 of Obama's years as an elected official were as State Senator from Illinois.

Having grown up in a small town and knowing our part time Mayor, I have trouble equating those two things as equal in management experience. I also consider Obama's community organizing experience a plus but not necessarily management experience.....

Their college education doesn't equate either - she has the same undergrad degree as one I have. I can tell you it doesn't prep you for any practical management job.

I don't get this argument/comparison at all.

[Bob Juch]

Who the hell wants to live in a growing suburb? It's a pain in the ass. Especially since they didn't improve the roads in Wasilla.

I've lived in non-growing suburbs on the Eastern side of Cleveland as well as growing Suburbs in Denver and Charlotte - for all the bad that comes with growing suburbs, I'll take them over the stagnant suburbs I lived near Cleveland - the roads there were in no better shape and every bit as crowded.

Well yeah, but that was Cleveland!

[Spock]

Here's the best article I have been able to find about Obama's community organizing efforts.

http://tinyurl.com/6j3psd

Obama attempted to put these principles into practice in South Chicago. Kellman and Kruglik's initial objective was to revive the region's manufacturing base--and preserve what remained of its steel industry--by working with unions and church groups to pressure companies and the city; but those hopes were quickly dashed. Indeed, during his three years in South Chicago, Obama was constantly having to scale back his objectives as one project after another faltered. First, he got community members to demand a job center that would provide job referrals, but there were few jobs to distribute. Then, he tried to create what he called a "second-level consumer economy" in Roseland consisting of shops, restaurants, and theaters. This, too, went nowhere. At that point, Kellman advised Obama to move elsewhere. "Stay here, and you are bound to fail," he told him.

But Obama remained. Next, he began to focus on providing social services for Altgeld Gardens. "We didn't yet have the power to change state welfare policy, or create local jobs, or bring substantially more money into the schools," he wrote. "But what we could do was begin to improve basic services at Altgeld--get the toilets fixed, the heaters working, the windows repaired." Obama helped the residents wage a successful campaign to get the Chicago Housing Authority to promise to remove asbestos from the units; but, after an initial burst of activity, the city failed to keep its promise. (As of last year, some residences still had not been cleared of asbestos.) In waging these campaigns, Obama's organization added staff, gained adherents, and won church support, including from the congregation of Reverend Jeremiah Wright. But it failed to stem the area's overall decline. "Ain't nothing gonna change, Mr. Obama," says one resident quoted in Dreams from My Father who grows disillusioned with the Developing Communities Project. "We just gonna concentrate on saving our money so we can move outta here as fast as we can."

Repeated for emphasis-"But what we could do was begin to improve basic services at Altgeld--get the toilets fixed, the heaters working, the windows repaired."

I would have a lot more respect for him if he had told the people-Fix your own toilet and don't depend on anybody else to do it.

It is revealing that Obama's mindset and worldviews are based on a set of people who can not or will not fix their own toilet.

[Bob Juch]

Here's the best article I have been able to find about Obama's community organizing efforts.

http://tinyurl.com/6j3psd

Obama attempted to put these principles into practice in South Chicago. Kellman and Kruglik's initial objective was to revive the region's manufacturing base--and preserve what remained of its steel industry--by working with unions and church groups to pressure companies and the city; but those hopes were quickly dashed. Indeed, during his three years in South Chicago, Obama was constantly having to scale back his objectives as one project after another faltered. First, he got community members to demand a job center that would provide job referrals, but there were few jobs to distribute. Then, he tried to create what he called a "second-level consumer economy" in Roseland consisting of shops, restaurants, and theaters. This, too, went nowhere. At that point, Kellman advised Obama to move elsewhere. "Stay here, and you are bound to fail," he told him.

But Obama remained. Next, he began to focus on providing social services for Altgeld Gardens. "We didn't yet have the power to change state welfare policy, or create local jobs, or bring substantially more money into the schools," he wrote. "But what we could do was begin to improve basic services at Altgeld--get the toilets fixed, the heaters working, the windows repaired." Obama helped the residents wage a successful campaign to get the Chicago Housing Authority to promise to remove asbestos from the units; but, after an initial burst of activity, the city failed to keep its promise. (As of last year, some residences still had not been cleared of asbestos.) In waging these campaigns, Obama's organization added staff, gained adherents, and won church support, including from the congregation of Reverend Jeremiah Wright. But it failed to stem the area's overall decline. "Ain't nothing gonna change, Mr. Obama," says one resident quoted in Dreams from My Father who grows disillusioned with the Developing Communities Project. "We just gonna concentrate on saving our money so we can move outta here as fast as we can."

Repeated for emphasis-"But what we could do was begin to improve basic services at Altgeld--get the toilets fixed, the heaters working, the windows repaired."

I would have a lot more respect for him if he had told the people-Fix your own toilet and don't depend on anybody else to do it.

It is revealing that Obama's mindset and worldviews are based on a set of people who can not or will not fix their own toilet.

Do you want to send them all to plumbing school?

[Spock]

Here's the best article I have been able to find about Obama's community organizing efforts.

http://tinyurl.com/6j3psd


Repeated for emphasis-"But what we could do was begin to improve basic services at Altgeld--get the toilets fixed, the heaters working, the windows repaired."

I would have a lot more respect for him if he had told the people-Fix your own toilet and don't depend on anybody else to do it.

It is revealing that Obama's mindset and worldviews are based on a set of people who can not or will not fix their own toilet.

Do you want to send them all to plumbing school?

I was not aware that a degree was required to fix a toilet.

[mrkelley23]

I am thinking Spock thinks the toilets were merely clogged.

I am also thinking Spock has not visited the apartments in the South Side of Chicago.

Regardless of whether any of the residents deserve their squalor, I do not find it at all unbelievable that they (or I, for that matter) would not be able to fix their toilet problems without professional assistance.

[Spock]

I am thinking Spock thinks the toilets were merely clogged.

I am also thinking Spock has not visited the apartments in the South Side of Chicago.

Regardless of whether any of the residents deserve their squalor, I do not find it at all unbelievable that they (or I, for that matter) would not be able to fix their toilet problems without professional assistance.

I want to rephrase my point. Obama's worldview is formed by a place where indivduals depend upon the government for everything, including basic plumbing.

The fact that they still live in squalor after countless years and dollars of government asistance is not an argument that government assistance to those places and individuals solves problems over the long-term.