American Physical Society essentially tells its members...

[Jeemie]

...not to read essays questioning man-made global warming.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/07/21/monckton_aps/

This is NOT proper scientific behavior, and truly shows how politicized this issue has become.

[MarleysGh0st]

...not to read essays questioning man-made global warming.

Where is the quote where they say that?

[ulysses5019]

...not to read essays questioning man-made global warming.

Where is the quote where they say that?

Marley is the skeptic.

[Jeemie]

...not to read essays questioning man-made global warming.

Where is the quote where they say that?

The following article has not undergone any scientific peer review. Its conclusions are in disagreement with the overwhelming opinion of the world scientific community. The Council of the American Physical Society disagrees with this article's conclusions.

Not so much Medusa, then, as Nanny telling the children what not to think.

"The first sentence is nothing more or less than a deliberate lie," writes Professor John Brignell on his Numberwatch blog. "The second is, to say the least, contentious; while the third is an outrageous example of ultra vires interference by a committee in the proper conduct of scientific debate."

[MarleysGh0st]

Yes, I saw much condemnation of the quote. I don't care to get into that.

But that disclaimer is not the same as saying "Do not read this."

I'm just saying...

[Jeemie]

Yes, I saw much condemnation of the quote. I don't care to get into that.

But that disclaimer is not the same as saying "Do not read this."

I'm just saying...

Yes- it pretty much is.

It is pretty much an attempt to sway the debate by poisoning the well.

That is NOT the job of societies like the APS.

[themanintheseersuckersuit]

This whole thing has been very entertaining. S ince I am not a member of the APS it was ok if I read it. Lord Monckton makes a lot of sense.

[eyégor]

Perhaps the APS doesn't want its members to consider something like Monckton's final graph






I think the most telling thing about this graph is where today's temp is compared to the earth's historical norm....

[MarleysGh0st]

Here's a link to the actual article published by the APS. Note that the disclaimer is similiar to what you quoted, but with subtle changes. Note also that the same disclaimer precedes the article by David Hafemeister and Peter Schwartz, that is a rebuttal to Lord Monckton

http://www.aps.org/units/fps/newsletter ... nckton.cfm

The following article has not undergone any scientific peer review, since that is not normal procedure for American Physical Society newsletters. The American Physical Society reaffirms the following position on climate change, adopted by its governing body, the APS Council, on November 18, 2007: "Emissions of greenhouse gases from human activities are changing the atmosphere in ways that affect the Earth's climate."

[gsabc]

Yes, I saw much condemnation of the quote. I don't care to get into that.

But that disclaimer is not the same as saying "Do not read this."

I'm just saying...

For all intents and purposes, it is. They're in essence telling their members "This is BS. Don't waste your time on it."

I will have to find time to read the article. My own opinion is that while there may indeed be global warming going on, I have not seen conclusive evidence, or even highly indicative evidence, that it is man-made and not part of the natural cycle of such things.

[Chicken Little]

I will have to find time to read the article. My own opinion is that while there may indeed be global warming going on, I have not seen conclusive evidence, or even highly indicative evidence, that it is man-made and not part of the natural cycle of such things.

The proceeding statement by gsabc has not undergone any scientific peer review. His conclusions are in disagreement with the overwhelming opinion of the world scientific community. The Powers that Be disagree with this BB's conclusions.

[smilergrogan]

I doubt the disclaimer is directed at APS members, who are with few exceptions well aware of the scientific consensus and also capable of evaluating the science in the paper themselves. If the APS really didn't want its members to read articles critical of the consensus, why did it invite the article and then publish it in its own journal?

The disclaimer is most likely directed at non-APS members such as journalists, who may not understand that an invited paper is not subject to the same peer review as ordinary articles, and that publication of any article does not necessarily constitute endorsement of its conclusions by the APS.

[eyégor]

Of course, you can make data say anything when you adjust said data-

from
http://www.gfdl.noaa.gov/aboutus/milest ... stone.html

Highlights mine

An example of one of the more extreme problems is shown in Figure 2, which displays the time series of temperature for one upper-tropospheric level (300 hPa or approximately 9 km above the surface) at the Russian station Pechora (65N, 57E). The red curve is a smoothed time series of the original data. Taken at face value it would appear that a sudden warming of monumental proportions took place in the mid 1970's, with the warm period lasting for about 8 years, until an equally dramatic cooling occurred. After careful examination of all relevant information we concluded that these discontinuous temperature changes were artificial, due to some undocumented instrumental or procedural changes. We chose to adjust the data at the times of discontinuity (as indicated by the blue vertical lines) resulting in the adjusted time series displayed as the green curve. Similar adjustments were made for most of the other tropospheric levels at this station.

I would be willing to consider the 'chicken littles's ' arguments if they would release the methodology used to make temperture adjustments. To date, there is an unwillingness to do so. Hence, to accept the numbers as accurate, you must have faith that the calculations are correct.

Perhaps they'd like to sell me a few indulgences while they're at it.[/i]

[frogman042]

Not having read the article and just glancing through the thread - does anyone know why it wasn't submitted for peer review - that is the minimum requirement for being taken seriously - and if it gets rejected then print it with the reviewers comments so everyone can see what the objections were.

IMHO, if you not willing to play by the rules of science you can't be upset if mainstream science wont take you seriously. It is not hard to submit a paper - the hard part is getting it published - and that is for everyone - established mainstream scientists as well.

---Jay (If at first you don't suceed, tri, tri again)

[MarleysGh0st]

Not having read the article and just glancing through the thread

As I quoted from the actual APS newsletter:

The following article has not undergone any scientific peer review, since that is not normal procedure for American Physical Society newsletters.

In other words, this sentence is a standard disclaimer that this newsletter is not a peer-reviewed journal.





Rants regarding the second sentence about the APS having a position on climate change may now continue...

[SportsFan68]

Nobody here called BS on news reports about the Pueblo study which described an almost 30% lower incidence of heart attacks during the period that their clean indoor air ordinance was in effect. Several people here did say that they would not believe it until it was published in a peer-reviewed journal, which it soon was. So I don't know that the process Jeemie talks about can be described as politicized. When people who don't care one way or the other about a Clean Indoor Air ordinance insist on full process, it seems not out of line to insist on it for something that affects the health of the planet and us on it. The lack of such peer-reviewed publications says more to me.

Common sense would say wait for Desert Rock to be built until all the data is in. But Big Money is trying to call the shots again.

New Mexico wants to intervene
in Desert Rock decree

By Kathy Helms
Diné Bureau

WINDOW ROCK — The state of New Mexico has filed a motion to intervene in a proposed consent decree requiring U.S. Environmental Protection Agency to act on an air permit application for the Desert Rock power plant.

Desert Rock Energy Co. LLC and Diné Power Authority filed a complaint March 18 seeking injunctive relief to compel EPA to act on their pending application for a Clean Air Act Prevention of Significant Deterioration permit.

They must obtain the permit in order to construct the proposed 1,500 megawatt coal-fired Desert Rock power plant to be built on the Navajo Reservation near Farmington. Today is the deadline for comment on the consent decree. The issue will be decided by July 31.

In the motion filed Wednesday in U.S. District Court in Houston, New Mexico Attorney General Gary K. King said the July 31 deadline on the proposed consent decree precludes EPA from satisfying crucial requirements in the permitting process.

“New Mexico must intervene now because the existing parties to this action have made it abundantly clear, in a proposed consent decree lodged recently with this court, that they will not comply with statutory requirements in the permitting process.

“It requires EPA to act — contrary to law — without fulfilling its legal obligation under the Endangered Species Act to complete a formal consultation with the Fish and Wildlife Service,” King said, adding that the deadline also means EPA will act without having considered controls on emissions of carbon dioxide or fine particulate matter.

Frank Maisano, spokesperson for Sithe Global Power LLC, developer of the Desert Rock project along with DPA, said the lawsuit is only about the timing of issuing the permit.

“EPA has a Clean Air Act statutory requirement to issue a permit decision 12 months after it receives an accepted permit application. That was May of 2004. They are over three years late in issuing a decision.

“It has nothing to do with any of the items General King lists in his request for intervention. You can’t say that this permit ought to be stopped because we haven’t had a meeting about endangered species yet, because that has nothing to do with the air permit.”

Nathan Plagens, director of Project Development for Sithe, said the company feels that Desert Rock and EPA have fulfilled all their obligations and performed the necessary evaluations to issue the permit.

“We have met with the governor’s office several times. I guess we’re disappointed that the governor’s office still fails to listen to us, hear us out, believe what we tell them, and support the Navajo Nation in their economic development affairs.”

King said New Mexico has made concerted efforts to reduce statewide greenhouse gas emissions, “all of which would be undone by the more than 10 million tons per year of carbon dioxide that Desert Rock will emit.”

The proposed deadline requires EPA to overlook legal and practical considerations by taking final action without having evaluated Desert Rock’s emissions of hazardous air pollutants like mercury and ozone precursors, he said.

“Nearly every single major reservoir in New Mexico is already under a fish consumption advisory because of elevated mercury levels.”

Under the new federal ozone standard, “New Mexico is on the brink of non-attainment for ozone in the very region in which Desert Rock is proposed,” King added.

The motion states that though plaintiffs allege they submitted a completed PSD permit application on May 21, 2004, and that EPA was obligated to take action no later than May 31, 2005, he said they may not have standing to bring the suit.

The original application was filed by Steag Power LLC, and the state has not located any evidence in the administrative record showing that the plaintiffs have been substituted as the permit applicant, he said.

[MarleysGh0st]

Are we making this a generic government & science rant thread now, Sprots?

[themanintheseersuckersuit]

Not having read the article and just glancing through the thread - does anyone know why it wasn't submitted for peer review - that is the minimum requirement for being taken seriously - and if it gets rejected then print it with the reviewers comments so everyone can see what the objections were.

IMHO, if you not willing to play by the rules of science you can't be upset if mainstream science wont take you seriously. It is not hard to submit a paper - the hard part is getting it published - and that is for everyone - established mainstream scientists as well.

---Jay (If at first you don't suceed, tri, tri again)

Lord Monckton explains how this paper came to be published. It an entertaining letter. (executive summary he was asked to submit the paper)

[eyégor]

Not having read the article and just glancing through the thread

As I quoted from the actual APS newsletter:

The following article has not undergone any scientific peer review, since that is not normal procedure for American Physical Society newsletters.

In other words, this sentence is a standard disclaimer that this newsletter is not a peer-reviewed journal.


Rants regarding the second sentence about the APS having a position on climate change may now continue...

My rant is not about any APS position as much as with the large body of scientists and politicians who seem willing to accept nothing less than blind acceptance that pineapples will soon be growing in Antarctica.

Even in the editors comments for the above referenced newsletter, ( http://www.aps.org/units/fps/newsletter ... editor.cfm ) it states

There is a considerable presence within the scientific community of people who do not agree with the IPCC conclusion that anthropogenic CO2 emissions are very probably likely to be primarily responsible for the global warming that has occurred since the Industrial Revolution.

So, if this is so, why are those who might merely consider this position considered, well, less than lucid?

addendum-

It might appear that the executive committee of the publication may soon be advertising for a new editor.

http://www.aps.org/units/fps/newsletters/200807/

[SportsFan68]

Are we making this a generic government & science rant thread now, Sprots?

No.

Good question, though. Thanks, Marley.

We're railing against Desert Rock. Not very well, I mght add.

The people trying to get an injunction to build it don't even have standing to bring the suit, and yet they're being taken seriously at every turn. It's SO MUCH MONEY they're impossible to ignore. Wind and solar power would get the same results with 1% of the pollution (I just made up those stats, but I have seen data which says those numbers are close), yet they're so easy to ignore because there's no big money in it for anybody. The only big money is if you count the cumulative savings of millions of people who would pay less for energy.

[eyégor]

And in conclusion, a list of things caused by global warming

A complete list of things caused by global warming

Acne, agricultural land increase, Afghan poppies destroyed, Africa devastated, African aid threatened, Africa in conflict, aggressive weeds, air pressure changes, Alaska reshaped, Agulhas current moves, Alps melting, Amazon a desert, American dream end, amphibians breeding earlier (or not), anaphylactic reactions to bee stings, ancient forests dramatically changed, animals head for the hills, Antarctic grass flourishes, Antarctic ice grows, Antarctic ice shrinks, Antarctic sea life at risk, anxiety treatment, algal blooms, archaeological sites threatened, Arctic bogs melt, Arctic in bloom, Arctic ice free, Arctic ice melt faster, Arctic lakes disappear, Arctic tundra to burn, Arctic warming (not), Atlantic less salty, Atlantic more salty, atmospheric circulation modified, attack of the killer jellyfish, avalanches reduced, avalanches increased, Baghdad snow, Bahrain under water, bananas grow, barbarisation, beer shortage, beetle infestation, bet for $10,000, better beer, big melt faster, billion dollar research projects, billion homeless, billions face risk, billions of deaths, bird distributions change, bird loss accelerating, bird visitors drop, birds confused, birds return early, birds driven north, bittern boom ends, blackbirds stop singing, blackbirds threatened, Black Hawk down, blue mussels return, bluetongue, brain eating amoebae, brains shrink, bridge collapse (Minneapolis), Britain Siberian, brothels struggle, brown Ireland, bubonic plague, budget increases, Buddhist temple threatened, building collapse, building season extension, bushfires, business opportunities, business risks, butterflies move north, camel deaths, cancer deaths in England, cannibalism, caterpillar biomass shift, cave paintings threatened, childhood insomnia, Cholera, circumcision in decline, cirrus disappearance, civil unrest, cloud increase, cockroach migration, coffee threatened, cold climate creatures survive, cold spells (Australia), cold wave (India), computer models, conferences, conflict, conflict with Russia, consumers foot the bill, coral bleaching, coral fish suffer, coral reefs dying, coral reefs grow, coral reefs shrink , coral reefs twilight, cost of trillions, cougar attacks, cradle of civilisation threatened, creatures move uphill, crime increase, crocodile sex, crops devastated, crumbling roads, buildings and sewage systems, curriculum change, cyclones (Australia), danger to kid's health, Darfur, Dartford Warbler plague, death rate increase (US), Dengue hemorrhagic fever, depression, desert advance, desert retreat, destruction of the environment, disappearance of coastal cities, diseases move north, Dolomites collapse, drought, ducks and geese decline, dust bowl in the corn belt, early marriages, early spring, earlier pollen season, Earth biodiversity crisis, Earth dying, Earth even hotter, Earth light dimming, Earth lopsided, Earth melting, Earth morbid fever, Earth on fast track, Earth past point of no return, Earth slowing down, Earth spins faster, Earth to explode, earth upside down, earthquakes, earthquakes redux, El Niño intensification, end of the world as we know it, erosion, emerging infections, encephalitis, English villages lost, equality threatened, Europe simultaneously baking and freezing, eutrophication, evolution accelerating, expansion of university climate groups, extinctions (human, civilisation, logic, Inuit, smallest butterfly, cod, ladybirds, pikas, polar bears, walrus, toads, plants, salmon, trout, wild flowers, woodlice, a million species, half of all animal and plant species, mountain species, not polar bears, barrier reef, leaches, tropical insects) experts muzzled, extreme changes to California, fading fall foliage, fainting, famine, farmers benefit, farmers go under, farm output boost, fashion disaster, fever,figurehead sacked, fir cone bonanza, fish bigger, fish catches drop, fish downsize, fish catches rise, fish deaf, fish get lost, fish stocks at risk, fish stocks decline, five million illnesses, flesh eating disease, flood patterns change, floods, floods of beaches and cities, flood of migrants, flood preparation for crisis, Florida economic decline, flowers in peril, food poisoning, food prices rise, food prices soar, food security threat (SA), footpath erosion, forest decline, forest expansion, frog with extra heads, frostbite, frost damage increased, frosts, fungi fruitful, fungi invasion, games change, Garden of Eden wilts, genetic diversity decline, gene pools slashed, giant oysters invade, giant pythons invade, giant squid migrate, gingerbread houses collapse, glacial earthquakes, glacial retreat, glacial growth, glacier grows (California), glacier wrapped, global cooling, global dimming, glowing clouds, golf Masters wrecked, grandstanding, grasslands wetter, Great Barrier Reef 95% dead, Great Lakes drop, great tits cope, greening of the North, Grey whales lose weight, Gulf Stream failure, habitat loss, Hantavirus pulmonary syndrome, harmful algae, harvest increase, harvest shrinkage, hay fever epidemic, health affected, health of children harmed, heart disease, heart attacks and strokes (Australia), heat waves, hibernation affected, hibernation ends too soon, hibernation ends too late, HIV epidemic, homeless 50 million, hornets, high court debates, human development faces unprecedented reversal, human fertility reduced, human health risk, human race oblivion, hurricanes, hurricane reduction, hurricanes fewer, hurricanes not, hydropower problems, hyperthermia deaths, ice age, ice sheet growth, ice sheet shrinkage, illness and death, inclement weather, India drowning, infrastructure failure (Canada), industry threatened, infectious diseases, inflation in China, insect explosion, insurance premium rises, Inuit displacement, Inuit poisoned, Inuit suing, invasion of cats, invasion of herons, invasion of jellyfish, invasion of midges, island disappears, islands sinking, itchier poison ivy, jellyfish explosion, jets fall from sky, jet stream drifts north, Kew Gardens taxed, kidney stones, killer cornflakes, killing us, kitten boom, koalas under threat, krill decline, lake and stream productivity decline, lake empties, lake shrinking and growing, landslides, landslides of ice at 140 mph, lawsuits increase, lawsuit successful, lawyers' income increased (surprise surprise!), lives saved, Loch Ness monster dead, lush growth in rain forests, Malaria, mammoth dung melt, mango harvest fails, Maple production advanced, Maple syrup shortage, marine diseases, marine food chain decimated, Meaching (end of the world), Mediterranean rises, megacryometeors, Melanoma, methane emissions from plants, methane burps, methane runaway, melting permafrost, Middle Kingdom convulses, migration, migration difficult (birds), migratory birds huge losses, microbes to decompose soil carbon more rapidly, minorities hit, monkeys on the move, Mont Blanc grows, monuments imperiled, moose dying, more bad air days, more research needed, mortality increased, mountain (Everest) shrinking, mountaineers fears, mountains break up, mountains green and flowering, mountains taller, mortality lower, Myanmar cyclone, narwhals at risk, National security implications, native wildlife overwhelmed, natural disasters quadruple, new islands, next ice age, NFL threatened, Nile delta damaged, noctilucent clouds, no effect in India, Northwest Passage opened, nuclear plants bloom, oaks dying, oaks move north, ocean acidification, ocean deserts expand, ocean waves speed up, opera house to be destroyed, outdoor hockey threatened, ozone repair slowed, ozone rise, Pacific dead zone, penguin chicks frozen, personal carbon rationing, pest outbreaks, pests increase, phenology shifts, plankton blooms, plankton destabilised, plants march north, plants move uphill, polar bears aggressive, polar bears cannibalistic, polar bears drowning, polar tours scrapped, popcorn rise, porpoise astray, profits collapse, psychiatric illness, puffin decline, radars taken out, railroad tracks deformed, rainfall increase, rape wave, refugees, release of ancient frozen viruses, resorts disappear, rice threatened, rice yields crash, rift on Capitol Hill, rioting and nuclear war, river flow impacted, rivers raised, roads wear out, robins rampant, rocky peaks crack apart, roof of the world a desert, rooftop bars, Ross river disease, ruins ruined, Russia under pressure, salinity reduction, salinity increase, Salmonella, satellites accelerate, school closures, sea level rise, sea level rise faster, seals mating more, sewer bills rise, severe thunderstorms, sex change, sexual promiscuity, shark attacks, sharks booming, sharks moving north, sheep shrink, shop closures, short-nosed dogs endangered, shrinking ponds, shrinking shrine, ski resorts threatened, skin cancer, slow death, smaller brains, smog, snowfall increase, snowfall heavy, soaring food prices, societal collapse, songbirds change eating habits, sour grapes, space problem, spectacular orchids, spiders invade Scotland, squid aggressive giants, squid population explosion, squirrels reproduce earlier, stingray invasion, storms wetter, stormwater drains stressed, street crime to increase, subsidence, suicide, swordfish in the Baltic, Tabasco tragedy, taxes, tectonic plate movement, teenage drinking, terrorism, threat to peace, ticks move northward (Sweden), tides rise, tomatoes rot, tornado outbreak, tourism increase, trade barriers, trade winds weakened, traffic jams, transportation threatened, tree foliage increase (UK), tree growth slowed, trees in trouble, trees less colourful, trees more colourful, trees lush, tropics expansion, tropopause raised, truffle shortage, turtles crash, turtles lay earlier, UK coastal impact, UK Katrina, Vampire moths, Venice flooded, volcanic eruptions, walrus pups orphaned, walrus stampede, war, wars over water, wars sparked, wars threaten billions, wasps, water bills double, water scarcity (20% of increase), water stress, weather out of its mind, weather patterns awry, Western aid cancelled out, West Nile fever, whales move north, whales wiped out, wheat yields crushed in Australia, wildfires, wind shift, wind reduced, wine - harm to Australian industry, wine industry damage (California), wine industry disaster (US), wine - more English, wine - England too hot, wine -German boon, wine - no more French , wine passé (Napa), wine stronger, winters in Britain colder, winter in Britain dead, witchcraft executions, wolves eat more moose, wolves eat less, workers laid off, World at war, World bankruptcy, World in crisis, World in flames, Yellow fever.

and all on 0.006 deg C per year!


The links to the above can be found at

http://www.numberwatch.co.uk/warmlist.htm


Those that the supporting documentation ha been consumed by the world wide web( when was the last time you heard that used?) include

Africa hit hardest, allergies increase, anxiety, asthma, atmospheric defiance, bananas destroyed, blizzards, boredom, British gardens change, cardiac arrest, cataracts, challenges and opportunities, cloud stripping, cod go south, cold spells, cremation to end, damages equivalent to $200 billion, dermatitis, desert life threatened, diarrhoea, drowning people, Earth spinning out of control, Earth wobbling, extinctions (bats, pandas, pigmy possums, koalas, turtles, orang-utan, elephants, tigers, gorillas, whales, frogs, penguins,) god melts, Gore omnipresence, hazardous waste sites breached, human health improvement, ice shelf collapse, lightning related insurance claims, little response in the atmosphere, Lyme disease, malnutrition, marine dead zone, mental illness (Alberta), mountains melting, mudslides, oblivion, oyster diseases, ozone loss, plankton loss, plant viruses, polar bears starve, psychosocial disturbances, rainfall reduction, reindeer larger, riches, rivers dry up, rockfalls, salmon stronger, shrimp sex problems, snowfall reduction, tree beetle attacks, trees could return to Antarctic, tree growth increased, tsunamis, walrus displaced, water supply unreliability, weeds, white Christmas dream ends

[MarleysGh0st]

A complete list of things caused by global warming

What about extinction of the Phone Game?

[AnnieCamaro]

And in conclusion, a list of things caused by global warming

A complete list of things caused by global warming....

One word jumped out at me -- Squirrels!

[ulysses5019]

And in conclusion, a list of things caused by global warming

A complete list of things caused by global warming....

One word jumped out at me -- Squirrels!

Squirrels will survive. Didn't you see Ice Age?

[AnnieCamaro]

Squirrels will survive. Didn't you see Ice Age?

I did not. My mom wouldn't take me to that movie. I'm not surprised, though.

Squirrels and cockroaches.

/:P\