WWTBAM Bored

I've mentioned before that my former employer laid me off, but has been pretty generous about it: the gave me a very nice severance package (a full year's salary, with full medical benefits), they gave me a lump sum for my accrued-but-unused vacation (some of which accrued during the sixty day period in which I was on 'redeployment,' which means, my job ended, but I was still paid and still had all my employee rights and privileges, I just didn't have to show up for work each day-- the 'severance' period started AFTER that 60 days, so in effect I am getting 14 months salary), they give me out placement assistance to help me find a new job, and I get $5,000 to spend on continuing education stuff, which I can spend at any time during the two years following my severance date (even after I start with my next employer; EXISTING Capital One employees don't get anywhere near that much). I even got my full bonus for last year, which was paid the month after my 'severance date' (and a generous bonus it was: about 25% of the midpoint amount for my pay grade).

The one thing I lost is that we are not supposed to get any 'long term incentives' (LTI), which are the stock options and stuff that Capital One uses as an employee retention tool: people at my (former) level would get an LTI award each year, and the award would vest in increments over the next three years, the idea being that you would (1) benefit as the company does well over time, since the award is keyed to stock appreciation, and (2) you would hang around so that you could actually collect it when it vests (the classic 'golden handcuffs')-- if you leave the company-- even if you are laid off-- you forfeit the unvested portion of your LTI.

It is all very nice-- if you are going to get laid off, you couldn't do better than to get laid by Capital One.

Well.

In March, my first paycheck was done properly (deductions only for taxes), but in the second paycheck of the month they withheld money for stock purchases (I used to participate in the employee stock purchase plan, but you cannot do that when you are no longer an employee). I wondered, WTF?

Then, in April, in addition to my regular paycheck (which was done properly) I received six additional deposits to my bank account, which were identified on the payroll system as 'LTI' (which people who have been laid off are not supposed to get). These six payments totaled up to a HUGE amount, significantly more than the amount I would have received if I had still been employed (that is, more than the amount that should have vested, if I were there to have my LTI vest). How big was this? Well, it is more than I ever earned for any year when I was still in private practice, and its more than most people win on Syndi BAM. Again I wondered, WTF?

I checked in with other members of the Little Club of Laid-Off Losers (including my manager, who was laid off when I was-- our whole group was left to twist slowly, slowly in the wind-- there are over 2,000 of us out here altogether), and no one else got the LTI payments, nor did any of them have anything deducted for stock purchases.

I decided to check in with Capital One, to ask them WTF: I wanted to get back the amount that they incorrectly deducted for stock purchases in March (I did not actually get any stock), and also, I wanted to find out whazzup with the 'LTI' payments. On the one hand, I did not want them to screw me out of my 'stock purchase' money, on the other hand, besides five fingers, I did not want to screw them out of the 'LTI' money that I was apparently not entitled to receive.

'Checking in' was difficult, because, well, the 'Severance Administrator,' the person who is supposed to answer questions like this for those of us who have been laid off... was laid off (I am NOT making that up). But I eventually found a live human being in the HR department, and I posited my questions to her.

Within 24 hours they had an answer to the question about stock purchase deductions: in technical terms, the explanation was 'Ooops.' They gave me that money back with my next paycheck. The LTI thing required 'further research.'

And more research.

And still more research.

Then other people had to be brought in.

Then, finally, the answer: yuppers, it is all mine mine mine mine mine mine mine mine mine. And why is it all mine mine mine mine mine mine mine mine mine? Well, it seems that there is one exception to the 'if you ain't employed on the vesting date, you don't get LTI' rule, and I qualify for that exception: if you are 'eligible to retire' as of your termination date from the company, your LTI vests-- all of it, all at once-- and you get it paid in cash. How cool is that? Well, it gets cooler: I became 'eligible to retire' on 11/23/07... and my last day of actual employment (start of 'redeployment') was 12/4/07-- just 11 days later. Man, am I glad that my mother didn't have a headache on Valentine's Day in 1952, if you catch my drift: if I had been born any later, I would have lost out completely. The reason no one else in the Little Club of Laid-Off Losers got the LTI is that none of them (but 'cept for me) was 'eligible for retirement.'

One oddity about all this is that we were all laid off for budget reasons-- it was too expensive for Capital One to keep us on. But with all that Capital One has been and is continuing to pay me (and all that they are paying to the other members of the Little Club of Laid-Off Losers, most of whom get the same stuff I do, other than the LTI), I 'spect that their budget is going to stay out of whack for a real long time.

Man, I love that company.

Very nice!

wintergreen48 wrote:'Checking in' was difficult, because, well, the 'Severance Administrator,' the person who is supposed to answer questions like this for those of us who have been laid off... was laid off (I am NOT making that up).

They still earn a for this one!

And to think Capital One is my primary credit card, these days. My card from US Air is, on the one hand, trying to encourage me to use their card more by offering "double miles" for the summer, but they're going to charge extra fees if I ever try to redeem any of those miles. Feh!

LL Bean has decided to change the bank they use for their affinity card. The current bank (Bank America?) has already promised that I'm getting some great, new card to replace it, without bothering to ask if I want it, without the LL Bean benefits. And Bean isn't revealing who their new bank will be until the end of the month.

And whatever bank now has the AT&T card noticed that I haven't used it in years and so they closed it of their own accord. Saved me the trouble of writing to them!

MarleysGh0st wrote:And whatever bank now has the AT&T card noticed that I haven't used it in years and so they closed it of their own accord. Saved me the trouble of writing to them!

That would be us.

I should have your problems!

Bob Juch wrote:

MarleysGh0st wrote:And whatever bank now has the AT&T card noticed that I haven't used it in years and so they closed it of their own accord. Saved me the trouble of writing to them!

That would be us.

Thanks for saving me the stamp, then!

wintergreen48 wrote:I've mentioned before that my former employer laid me off, but has been pretty generous about it: the gave me a very nice severance package (a full year's salary, with full medical benefits), they gave me a lump sum for my accrued-but-unused vacation (some of which accrued during the sixty day period in which I was on 'redeployment,' which means, my job ended, but I was still paid and still had all my employee rights and privileges, I just didn't have to show up for work each day-- the 'severance' period started AFTER that 60 days, so in effect I am getting 14 months salary), they give me out placement assistance to help me find a new job, and I get $5,000 to spend on continuing education stuff, which I can spend at any time during the two years following my severance date (even after I start with my next employer; EXISTING Capital One employees don't get anywhere near that much). I even got my full bonus for last year, which was paid the month after my 'severance date' (and a generous bonus it was: about 25% of the midpoint amount for my pay grade).

The one thing I lost is that we are not supposed to get any 'long term incentives' (LTI), which are the stock options and stuff that Capital One uses as an employee retention tool: people at my (former) level would get an LTI award each year, and the award would vest in increments over the next three years, the idea being that you would (1) benefit as the company does well over time, since the award is keyed to stock appreciation, and (2) you would hang around so that you could actually collect it when it vests (the classic 'golden handcuffs')-- if you leave the company-- even if you are laid off-- you forfeit the unvested portion of your LTI.

It is all very nice-- if you are going to get laid off, you couldn't do better than to get laid by Capital One.

Well.

In March, my first paycheck was done properly (deductions only for taxes), but in the second paycheck of the month they withheld money for stock purchases (I used to participate in the employee stock purchase plan, but you cannot do that when you are no longer an employee). I wondered, WTF?

Then, in April, in addition to my regular paycheck (which was done properly) I received six additional deposits to my bank account, which were identified on the payroll system as 'LTI' (which people who have been laid off are not supposed to get). These six payments totaled up to a HUGE amount, significantly more than the amount I would have received if I had still been employed (that is, more than the amount that should have vested, if I were there to have my LTI vest). How big was this? Well, it is more than I ever earned for any year when I was still in private practice, and its more than most people win on Syndi BAM. Again I wondered, WTF?

I checked in with other members of the Little Club of Laid-Off Losers (including my manager, who was laid off when I was-- our whole group was left to twist slowly, slowly in the wind-- there are over 2,000 of us out here altogether), and no one else got the LTI payments, nor did any of them have anything deducted for stock purchases.

I decided to check in with Capital One, to ask them WTF: I wanted to get back the amount that they incorrectly deducted for stock purchases in March (I did not actually get any stock), and also, I wanted to find out whazzup with the 'LTI' payments. On the one hand, I did not want them to screw me out of my 'stock purchase' money, on the other hand, besides five fingers, I did not want to screw them out of the 'LTI' money that I was apparently not entitled to receive.

'Checking in' was difficult, because, well, the 'Severance Administrator,' the person who is supposed to answer questions like this for those of us who have been laid off... was laid off (I am NOT making that up). But I eventually found a live human being in the HR department, and I posited my questions to her.

Within 24 hours they had an answer to the question about stock purchase deductions: in technical terms, the explanation was 'Ooops.' They gave me that money back with my next paycheck. The LTI thing required 'further research.'

And more research.

And still more research.

Then other people had to be brought in.

Then, finally, the answer: yuppers, it is all mine mine mine mine mine mine mine mine mine. And why is it all mine mine mine mine mine mine mine mine mine? Well, it seems that there is one exception to the 'if you ain't employed on the vesting date, you don't get LTI' rule, and I qualify for that exception: if you are 'eligible to retire' as of your termination date from the company, your LTI vests-- all of it, all at once-- and you get it paid in cash. How cool is that? Well, it gets cooler: I became 'eligible to retire' on 11/23/07... and my last day of actual employment (start of 'redeployment') was 12/4/07-- just 11 days later. Man, am I glad that my mother didn't have a headache on Valentine's Day in 1952, if you catch my drift: if I had been born any later, I would have lost out completely. The reason no one else in the Little Club of Laid-Off Losers got the LTI is that none of them (but 'cept for me) was 'eligible for retirement.'

One oddity about all this is that we were all laid off for budget reasons-- it was too expensive for Capital One to keep us on. But with all that Capital One has been and is continuing to pay me (and all that they are paying to the other members of the Little Club of Laid-Off Losers, most of whom get the same stuff I do, other than the LTI), I 'spect that their budget is going to stay out of whack for a real long time.

Man, I love that company.

This is one of the finest posts I've read in awhile. Major congratulations. I like good news.

So if you were "eligible to retire," does that mean that you are in fact retired, in the eyes of CapOne? That seems like a significant distinction that would not have come as a surprise. I am officially "retired" in the eyes of IBM, and they will send me a modest payment each month for the rest of my life that will never be adjusted for cost of living. However, they were not generous enough to lay me off, despite people all around me being axed and my stated willingness to take the fall to save someone else's job.

What The Funds

TheConfessor wrote:So if you were "eligible to retire," does that mean that you are in fact retired, in the eyes of CapOne? That seems like a significant distinction that would not have come as a surprise. I am officially "retired" in the eyes of IBM, and they will send me a modest payment each month for the rest of my life that will never be adjusted for cost of living. However, they were not generous enough to lay me off, despite people all around me being axed and my stated willingness to take the fall to save someone else's job.

Officially, I am still just 'eligible to retire.' I will probably 'officially' retire when the severance period is completely up next February. About all that I will get out of being 'officially' retired is that (1) I will get a modest payment each month for the rest of my life (this is truly modest-- it will be something like $5/month; the real pension benefit from Capital One is the 401k, which actually is very generous-- they generally contribute up to 9% of salary, among other things) and (2) I will be able to participate in the medical plan with full employee benefits (i.e., I will get the 'group' rate AND I will get the company subsidy; this is ANOTHER reason why I am glad that my mother did not have a headache in February 1952, because, for people who became 'eligible to retire' after 12/31/07, Capital One is cutting the medical insurance subsidy rate, to the extent that for people who become eligible to retire after, I think, 2010, there will be no subsidy at all, those retirees will pay the full COBRA rate).

The Capital One severance program really is generous-- people have volunteered to be laid off, but they have been very rigorous in their criteria and will not accept volunteers (possibly for legal reasons, it really is based upon job functions rather than the people who perform the functions, so that a barely competent person in a job role that is currently 'necessary' will not be laid off, but if God Himself were performing some job that they decided was no longer needed, well, He would be out on His ear with the rest of us Laid Off Losers). But here's an anecdote which is kind of interesting: I know of one guy who was very high up in the company (I mean, really high: I was kind of high up, but I still had to kiss his ring when I met with him; people who were lower in the organization had to kiss something else) who decided it was time for him to leave, and he arranged for a reorganization that resulted in his job being eliminated-- and he got the severance package (he did not cost anyone else a job, he just eliminated his own job).

wintergreen48 wrote:I will be able to participate in the medical plan with full employee benefits (i.e., I will get the 'group' rate AND I will get the company subsidy; this is ANOTHER reason why I am glad that my mother did not have a headache in February 1952, because, for people who became 'eligible to retire' after 12/31/07, Capital One is cutting the medical insurance subsidy rate, to the extent that for people who become eligible to retire after, I think, 2010, there will be no subsidy at all, those retirees will pay the full COBRA rate).

So far, so good, but unless it's guaranteed in writing, everything not covered by ERISA is subject to change at any time. If CapOne is like most other big corporations, sooner or later there will be a new regime with new bean counters who will find ways to squeeze out any costs that are not contractually obligated. I have medical coverage under IBM's group plan, but for those of us who are no longer actual employees, our group rate is not based on the cost of active employees. Instead, they created a separate group of ancient, wheezing, feeble retirees at death's door, and we get to pay the astronomical group rate based on our average costs. Many people in this group owe more for the medical coverage than they receive in their monthly pension check. But it's just business, nothing personal. I try to take the attitude that I need to take care of myself and anything else I get from my former employer is just a bonus. I hope things continue to work out to your best advantage.

Marley says:

LL Bean has decided to change the bank they use for their affinity card. The current bank (Bank America?) has already promised that I'm getting some great, new card to replace it, without bothering to ask if I want it, without the LL Bean benefits. And Bean isn't revealing who their new bank will be until the end of the month.

yeah, me too.

And whatever bank now has the AT&T card noticed that I haven't used it in years and so they closed it of their own accord. Saved me the trouble of writing to them!

Q for you or anyone else in the know:


Do those "credit check" agencies give you negative points for extra cards you never asked for, never "turned on", never used?

My bank likewise had their previously only-good-in-the-bank-machine card turn into a generic Mastercard. I have never activated it. Sears likewise had their "only good at Sears" card turn into a Mastercard. Never activated it, either. Will probably take the same tack with this unsolicited Bank of A card that replaces my LL Bean Card, but won't offer free shipping (or free returns, as LL Bean says their new card will do).

I've noticed that replacement-bank cards tend to be Mastercard, whereas my aim is to have 1 activated Mastercard, 1 activated Visa. Hope LL doesn't blow it.

ghostjmf wrote:Marley says:

LL Bean has decided to change the bank they use for their affinity card. The current bank (Bank America?) has already promised that I'm getting some great, new card to replace it, without bothering to ask if I want it, without the LL Bean benefits. And Bean isn't revealing who their new bank will be until the end of the month.

yeah, me too.

And whatever bank now has the AT&T card noticed that I haven't used it in years and so they closed it of their own accord. Saved me the trouble of writing to them!

Q for you or anyone else in the know:


Do those "credit check" agencies give you negative points for extra cards you never asked for, never "turned on", never used?

My bank likewise had their previously only-good-in-the-bank-machine card turn into a generic Mastercard. I have never activated it. Sears likewise had their "only good at Sears" card turn into a Mastercard. Never activated it, either. Will probably take the same tack with this unsolicited Bank of A card that replaces my LL Bean Card, but won't offer free shipping (or free returns, as LL Bean says their new card will do).

I've noticed that replacement-bank cards tend to be Mastercard, whereas my aim is to have 1 activated Mastercard, 1 activated Visa. Hope LL doesn't blow it.

If you've never activated a card, then it probably doesn't show up on your credit report. However, that's not necessarily a good thing. Your FICO score actually goes up if you have high credit limits that you never use. If you're not getting an auto loan or buying a house, you probably don't care though.

BobJuch says:

If you've never activated a card, then it probably doesn't show up on your credit report. However, that's not necessarily a good thing. Your FICO score actually goes up if you have high credit limits that you never use. If you're not getting an auto loan or buying a house, you probably don't care though.

I've read in a bunch of cases "don't have lots of cards; credit rating bureaus demerit those people". Maybe the people who write that advice can't conceive of someone with unused lots of cards.


Ooooh, this is making all those "get this card; get a free free airplane ride" offers look attractive after all.

Anyone ever done that & collected the rides & not used the cards (or cancelled them outright if they went from 0% yearly fee to a real figure) & not gotten burned somehow?

This is excellent. I love stories like these.

ghostjmf wrote:BobJuch says

If you've never activated a card, then it probably doesn't show up on your credit report. However, that's not necessarily a good thing. Your FICO score actually goes up if you have high credit limits that you never use. If you're not getting an auto loan or buying a house, you probably don't care though.

I've read in a bunch of cases "don't have lots of cards; credit rating bureaus demerit those people". Maybe the people who write that advice can't conceive of someone with unused lots of cards.

Ooooh, this is making all those "get this card; get a free free airplane ride" offers look attractive after all.

Anyone ever done that & collected the rides & not used the cards (or cancelled them outright if they went from 0% yearly fee to a real figure) & not gotten burned somehow?

There's a difference between lots of cards, and - say - four cards.

Bob Juch wrote:

ghostjmf wrote:BobJuch says

If you've never activated a card, then it probably doesn't show up on your credit report. However, that's not necessarily a good thing. Your FICO score actually goes up if you have high credit limits that you never use. If you're not getting an auto loan or buying a house, you probably don't care though.

I've read in a bunch of cases "don't have lots of cards; credit rating bureaus demerit those people". Maybe the people who write that advice can't conceive of someone with unused lots of cards.

Ooooh, this is making all those "get this card; get a free free airplane ride" offers look attractive after all.

Anyone ever done that & collected the rides & not used the cards (or cancelled them outright if they went from 0% yearly fee to a real figure) & not gotten burned somehow?

There's a difference between lots of cards, and - say - four cards.

Another thing; You FICO score will be lowered if you have recent credit granted - within the last year - even if you haven't used it.