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Ohio Issue 1 loses.
Posted: Tue Aug 08, 2023 9:55 pm
by Bob78164
Yet again, we’ve seen that when the people get to vote on the issue, reproductive rights win handily. Issue 1 was widely and accurately seen as a proxy for the November ballot measure in Ohio that will enshrine reproductive rights into the State Constitution. The gerrymandered Legislature placed Issue 1 on the ballot for an August special election in the hope that the electorate would swing conservative.
It didn’t work. With 95% of the vote counted, Issue 1 is on track to lose by approximately 13 points. Ohio voters have made their will clear and will do so again in November. It turns out that most voters don’t want politicians telling women what they can and can’t do with their bodies. —Bob
Re: Ohio Issue 1 loses.
Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2023 6:29 am
by silverscreenselect
Bob78164 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 08, 2023 9:55 pm
The gerrymandered Legislature placed Issue 1 on the ballot for an August special election in the hope that the electorate would swing conservative.
The Kansas election on the abortion rights amendment was also held in August.
Re: Ohio Issue 1 loses.
Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2023 8:13 am
by BackInTex
Bob78164 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 08, 2023 9:55 pm
It turns out that most voters don’t want politicians telling .......
When voters agree with you, this is your supporting argument. Thankfully we have a republican for of government.
It works both ways. Sometimes those elected representives don't make the choices I want.
Re: Ohio Issue 1 loses.
Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2023 9:22 am
by Bob78164
BackInTex wrote: ↑Wed Aug 09, 2023 8:13 am
Bob78164 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 08, 2023 9:55 pm
It turns out that most voters don’t want politicians telling .......
When voters agree with you, this is your supporting argument. Thankfully we have a republican for of government.
It works both ways. Sometimes those elected representives don't make the choices I want.
You don’t like that the states have a republican form of government. You like that many states have a gerrymandered form of government. —Bob
Re: Ohio Issue 1 loses.
Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2023 9:30 am
by Spock
Bob78164 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 09, 2023 9:22 am
BackInTex wrote: ↑Wed Aug 09, 2023 8:13 am
Bob78164 wrote: ↑Tue Aug 08, 2023 9:55 pm
It turns out that most voters don’t want politicians telling .......
When voters agree with you, this is your supporting argument. Thankfully we have a republican for of government.
It works both ways. Sometimes those elected representives don't make the choices I want.
You don’t like that the states have a republican form of government. You like that many states have a gerrymandered form of government. —Bob
See-BiT-You don't get it. When Bob gets his way-it supports democracy.
OTOH-When Bob doesn't get his way-it is undemocratic and he blames it on something..
Re: Ohio Issue 1 loses.
Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2023 10:20 am
by BackInTex
Spock wrote: ↑Wed Aug 09, 2023 9:30 am
Bob78164 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 09, 2023 9:22 am
BackInTex wrote: ↑Wed Aug 09, 2023 8:13 am
When voters agree with you, this is your supporting argument. Thankfully we have a republican for of government.
It works both ways. Sometimes those elected representives don't make the choices I want.
You don’t like that the states have a republican form of government. You like that many states have a gerrymandered form of government. —Bob
See-BiT-You don't get it. When Bob gets his way-it supports democracy.
OTOH-When Bob doesn't get his way-it is undemocratic and he blames it on something..
You said it better than I did.
Re: Ohio Issue 1 loses.
Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2023 10:58 am
by flockofseagulls104
What democrats don't understand is that our country is not a democracy, and the founding fathers did everything they could think of to prevent us from becoming one.
A purely democratic state is worse than a communistic one. The majority votes itself what it wants to the detriment of the minority. Our founding fathers hoped that we would elect fair and wise representatives and put in checks and balances to ensure we would stay a constitutional republic. Franklin famously told us that we were given a republic if we could keep it.
Unfortunately, today we have very few, if any, wise and fair representatives, we have obliterated the checks and balances and no one in power seems to have any idea about the Constitution. This is why many people believe we have already lost our republic.
Re: Ohio Issue 1 loses.
Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2023 11:38 am
by silverscreenselect
flockofseagulls104 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 09, 2023 10:58 am
A purely democratic state is worse than a communistic one.
The problem with a purely democratic state is that it's unworkable in practice in all but the smallest numbers. It's one thing for a ten-member book club to vote on next month's selection; it would be quite another to have every person in the county try to vote on what's in the current curriculum. Ancient Greece and Rome restricted who was eligible to participate to a manageable number that still became too awkward as their size grew, both in numbers and area. Even in republics, as BiT pointed out earlier in this thread, the majority can vote itself what it wants to the detriment of the minority. There's just one interim step involved. In theory, republics are more efficient ways of managing a democratic form of government than pure democracies. In practice, problems arise when the governing majority at one particular point in time tries to rig the system, whether through gerrymandering, voter suppression, or other means, to try to ensure that it remains in the majority even when it no longer reflects the will of the majority of the public. The various popular votes on abortion amendments in red states, including yesterday in Ohio, demonstrates that.
Re: Ohio Issue 1 loses.
Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2023 12:57 pm
by flockofseagulls104
silverscreenselect wrote: ↑Wed Aug 09, 2023 11:38 am
flockofseagulls104 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 09, 2023 10:58 am
A purely democratic state is worse than a communistic one.
The problem with a purely democratic state is that it's unworkable in practice in all but the smallest numbers. It's one thing for a ten-member book club to vote on next month's selection; it would be quite another to have every person in the county try to vote on what's in the current curriculum. Ancient Greece and Rome restricted who was eligible to participate to a manageable number that still became too awkward as their size grew, both in numbers and area. Even in republics, as BiT pointed out earlier in this thread, the majority can vote itself what it wants to the detriment of the minority. There's just one interim step involved. In theory, republics are more efficient ways of managing a democratic form of government than pure democracies. In practice, problems arise when the governing majority at one particular point in time tries to rig the system, whether through gerrymandering, voter suppression, or other means, to try to ensure that it remains in the majority even when it no longer reflects the will of the majority of the public. The various popular votes on abortion amendments in red states, including yesterday in Ohio, demonstrates that.
Yes, lets mention gerrymandering and voter suppression. But let's forget about controlling the media and educational institutions, propaganda and especially politically weaponizing law enforcement. We will indoctrinate our own majority by feeding them only what we want them to hear, and taking out those we don't want them to hear. The First Amendment? Well, that doesn't apply to 'hate speech' (even though it actually does), especially when we define what hate speech is. We don't want to think about those ways of rigging the system, do we?
Re: Ohio Issue 1 loses.
Posted: Wed Aug 09, 2023 3:22 pm
by silverscreenselect
flockofseagulls104 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 09, 2023 12:57 pm
But let's forget about controlling the media
Someone must have forgotten to tell Fox News, Newsmax, OAN, as well as all those right wing radio channels that carry Sean Hannity (and used to carry Rush Limbaugh), and the Washington Examiner, the Washington Times, the New York Post. They mustn't have gotten the message that they're controlled by George Soros and Joe Biden.
Re: Ohio Issue 1 loses.
Posted: Thu Aug 10, 2023 10:17 am
by flockofseagulls104
silverscreenselect wrote: ↑Wed Aug 09, 2023 3:22 pm
flockofseagulls104 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 09, 2023 12:57 pm
But let's forget about controlling the media
Someone must have forgotten to tell Fox News, Newsmax, OAN, as well as all those right wing radio channels that carry Sean Hannity (and used to carry Rush Limbaugh), and the Washington Examiner, the Washington Times, the New York Post. They mustn't have gotten the message that they're controlled by George Soros and Joe Biden.
Many of which have been censored and canceled by major woke conglomerates like ATT, Meta, Youtube etc. And are constantly under attack from the MSM, the 'education' institutions and labeled as purveyors of 'hate speech' by your ilk. You must've forgotten the whole twitter (X) story.