Supreme Court strikes down affirmative action

[flockofseagulls104]

About time.
I, personally, don't think Black Americans are intellectually challenged. Do you?
It is well past time to get rid of ALL traces of institutional racism.

[silverscreenselect]

It is well past time to get rid of ALL traces of institutional racism.

Does that include practices like redlining black neighborhoods or rejecting resumes from applicants with black or Hispanic sounding (to the employer) names?

Or is that just good business sense?

[kroxquo]

About time.
I, personally, don't think Black Americans are intellectually challenged. Do you?
It is well past time to get rid of ALL traces of institutional racism.

I don't believe that African-Americans are intellectually challenged. But that is not what Affirmative Action was about. It is about evening the playing field for historically marginalized communities of color who do not have the same opportunities as Whites. This decision will make it harder than ever for those communities to ever achieve equity in society.

[Bob78164]

I don't believe that African-Americans are intellectually challenged. But that is not what Affirmative Action was about. It is about evening the playing field for historically marginalized communities of color who do not have the same opportunities as Whites. This decision will make it harder than ever for those communities to ever achieve equity in society.

The Court's decision explicitly exempted the military academies from its sweep. So it's still okay to help persons of color to fight and die for our country. Just not to help them make the connections that would help them thrive in boardrooms. --Bob

[flockofseagulls104]

One of the biggest lies foisted on the American people inside the mainstream media/swamp echo chamber is that the USA is a racist country. In actual fact we are the most tolerant, least racist country on Earth. Of all the countries in the world, we are composed of the biggest mix of nationalities, ethnicities, religions and viewpoints. And the vast majority of us get along fine together. If you want to talk about racial prejudice, fine. Yes, we have that here. But we were past the point of having to have general, overall policies that assume EVERYONE is guilty of racism a long time ago. It is time to 'END RACISM' by finding and punishing those that ACTUALLY ENGAGE IN IT, rather than making sweeping laws and policies that target entire groups of people as either villains or victims. Go after the specific entities, isolate them and prosecute them.

The main area of conflict and hatred in this country right now is not racism or any of the -isms at all. It is POLITICAL. We see that every day, and we see it right here on this bored in microcosm. From my perspective, that conflict originates, is organized, and kept constantly enflamed by the political left, that feeds on dividing us into groups and is always in need of victims to pander to. Not that all of us on the right are free from guilt, but we are not the ones driving, feeding and perpetuating the divisions. Regardless of the prejudices that are apparent with some of you usual suspects, we are not all white supremacists and nazis, and we hate when those people show up and are used to enflame your outrage against us. We are outraged by them too. Probably more than you are.

Diversity is important, but it is below excellence in importance. And what this country needs now, more than ever, is more excellence. If we truly want to 'END RACISM', the only way to do that is for us to strive for a color-blind society. If we are truly color-blind, diversity will take care of itself. And, IMO, I thought we were well on the way to that until we elected our first black president, who could have used his election to champion the cause of color-blindedness, but chose instead to fuel divisiveness.

Ending affirmative action in universities is a good first step.

[Beebs52]

Flock, I agree with what you said.

[Bob78164]

I suggest you read Justice Jackson's dissent for a different perspective. It starts at page 209 and explains how things play out in real life. --Bob

[Beebs52]

I suggest you read Justice Jackson's dissent for a different perspective. It starts at page 209 and explains how things play out in real life. --Bob

Who's definition of real life?

[Bob78164]

I suggest you read Justice Jackson's dissent for a different perspective. It starts at page 209 and explains how things play out in real life. --Bob

Who's definition of real life?

The opinion is self-explanatory. And the word you wanted was "whose." --Bob

[Beebs52]

I suggest you read Justice Jackson's dissent for a different perspective. It starts at page 209 and explains how things play out in real life. --Bob

Who's definition of real life?

The opinion is self-explanatory. And the word you wanted was "whose." --Bob

Fuck you. I was distracted by real life. Speaking of which, what events in your life turned your white liberal guilt toxic?

[Beebs52]

https://www.politico.com/news/2023/06/2 ... n-00104271

[Earl the Squirrel]

Flock, I agree with what you said.

Damn, me too! (At least the first post). In all of my years working for the government and having a position in the hiring process, I saw AA in action and it has never worked as it should. Same way with the Rooney Rule. If they know who they want to hire, they will, and all they're doing is wasting other people's time and possibly giving them a false hope that will remain unfufilled.

[Beebs52]

Earl! Total hijack here.

[tlynn78]

I don't believe that African-Americans are intellectually challenged. But that is not what Affirmative Action was about. It is about evening the playing field for historically marginalized communities of color who do not have the same opportunities as Whites. This decision will make it harder than ever for those communities to ever achieve equity in society.

The Court's decision explicitly exempted the military academies from its sweep. So it's still okay to help persons of color to fight and die for our country. Just not to help them make the connections that would help them thrive in boardrooms. --Bob

I suspect what you know about what helps people thrive in boardrooms would fit in a gnat's eye. I personally know at least six West Point grads who more than thrived in boardrooms.

[Beebs52]

I don't believe that African-Americans are intellectually challenged. But that is not what Affirmative Action was about. It is about evening the playing field for historically marginalized communities of color who do not have the same opportunities as Whites. This decision will make it harder than ever for those communities to ever achieve equity in society.

The Court's decision explicitly exempted the military academies from its sweep. So it's still okay to help persons of color to fight and die for our country. Just not to help them make the connections that would help them thrive in boardrooms. --Bob

I suspect what you know about what helps people thrive in boardrooms would fit in a gnat's eye. I personally know at least six West Point grads who more than thrived in boardrooms.

Those's peeper's wear probly all whiters. Hey, Vob, correct me sperling.

So, working in the 70's I had a traditional male job and did well. Claim adjuster, French degree ha!
Climbed more hail damaged roofs than guys.
Job sucked. Changed it. Get on with it people.

[Beebs52]

Flock, I agree with what you said.

Damn, me too! (At least the first post). In all of my years working for the government and having a position in the hiring process, I saw AA in action and it has never worked as it should. Same way with the Rooney Rule. If they know who they want to hire, they will, and all they're doing is wasting other people's time and possibly giving them a false hope that will remain unfufilled.

Earl in other words not intended nor unintended consequences, just consequences.

[flockofseagulls104]

Real life:
No one I know or have ever known ever owned a slave.
No black person in the United States has ever been a slave, and no one they know or have ever known has ever been a slave.
I, for one, (and there are millions more like me) refuse to have any guilt over the past institution of slavery in this country (which was ended 150 years ago. ENDED by a war in which thousands of people died to end it), or have any guilt over the few sick morons that are actual 'white supremacists'.

Justice Jackson may believe it is not yet time to end affirmative action, and that we cannot achieve a color-blind society without it. Well, achieving that goal will be difficult, but we have to be willing to do the work to get there. And to do that we have to establish a level playing field for it to exist in for everyone. If 150 years is too soon to include Black Americans in that level playing field for all, how many years will it take? How many generations? I don't think anyone has that answer, so my opinion is that we should start NOW.

That is my position on this issue.

When I talk about slavery above, I am talking about the institution of slavery that was put to end following the Civil War. I am not talking about the slavery that is going on today, and ever-growing. The human trafficking, both sexual and otherwise, that is being summarily ignored by our dysfunctional press and government. They are more interested in their self-serving narratives.

[flockofseagulls104]

Flock, I agree with what you said.

Damn, me too! (At least the first post). In all of my years working for the government and having a position in the hiring process, I saw AA in action and it has never worked as it should. Same way with the Rooney Rule. If they know who they want to hire, they will, and all they're doing is wasting other people's time and possibly giving them a false hope that will remain unfufilled.

The key phrase here is 'working for the government'. The government ignored AA and hired who they wanted? The supposed arbiter and creator of these laws that everyone else was supposed to follow to the letter?

Yep. Past time to clean them out. And it don't matter who is supposedly in charge, it's in the unelected bureaucracy. We have to elect people who are willing and unafraid to confront the entrenched mini-empires that no one voted for and make them accountable to US. And the only one who is talking about that right now on the national level is Trump. Which is why he is under attack from the swamp six days from Sunday.

[tlynn78]

I suggest you read Justice Jackson's dissent for a different perspective. It starts at page 209 and explains how things play out in real life. --Bob

Thomas' concurrence is far more eloquent and far more accurate.

[jarnon]

Shortly after this decision, Christine King Farris, the older sister of Martin Luther King, passed away at age 95.

[kroxquo]

Real life:
No one I know or have ever known ever owned a slave.
No black person in the United States has ever been a slave, and no one they know or have ever known has ever been a slave.
I, for one, (and there are millions more like me) refuse to have any guilt over the past institution of slavery in this country (which was ended 150 years ago. ENDED by a war in which thousands of people died to end it), or have any guilt over the few sick morons that are actual 'white supremacists'.

Justice Jackson may believe it is not yet time to end affirmative action, and that we cannot achieve a color-blind society without it. Well, achieving that goal will be difficult, but we have to be willing to do the work to get there. And to do that we have to establish a level playing field for it to exist in for everyone. If 150 years is too soon to include Black Americans in that level playing field for all, how many years will it take? How many generations? I don't think anyone has that answer, so my opinion is that we should start NOW.

That is my position on this issue.

When I talk about slavery above, I am talking about the institution of slavery that was put to end following the Civil War. I am not talking about the slavery that is going on today, and ever-growing. The human trafficking, both sexual and otherwise, that is being summarily ignored by our dysfunctional press and government. They are more interested in their self-serving narratives.

Slavery ended just over 150 years ago. That is an incontrovertible fact. But its effects did not.
Real Life:
There are Black people in the United States alive today who were refused service in businesses because of the color of their skin.
There are Black people in the United States alive today whose parents were denied the vote through quasi-legal means and/or outright intimidation.
There are Black people in the United States alive today who faced discrimination in housing due to red lining.
There are Black people in the United States alive today who feel threatened by law enforcement and who have to discuss with their children how to avoid being a victim of police violence
Blacks are incarcerated at rates far above those of whites.
There are White people in the United States alive today who screamed at, spat at, assaulted, and beat high school students as they attempted to attend the school of their choice.

To say that problems for African-Americans ended with the 13th Amendment is disingenuous at best and I believe that you are smarter than that. And don't forget that in the Civil War, more than 200,000 people died to maintain slavery.

[silverscreenselect]

To say that problems for African-Americans ended with the 13th Amendment is disingenuous at best and I believe that you are smarter than that. And don't forget that in the Civil War, more than 200,000 people died to maintain slavery.

Studies have shown that businesses that promote a culture of diversity perform better than those that don't. This isn't political correctness run amok; this is good business sense. Monolithic corporate cultures suffer from groupthink.

The same holds for colleges and universities. Students who graduate from all-white or nearly all-white colleges don't get the benefit of exposure to different cultures and points of view. And to say that just because an occasional Clarence Thomas overcomes systemic racism to make it through college and law school proves that "anyone" can do it if they work hard enough ignores reality. It's like saying that just because LeBron James makes millions of dollars in the NBA, then any tall person can do the same if they work hard enough. Tokenism isn't non-racism; it's an attempt to cover up racism.

There are undoubtedly some employers who won't hire blacks and some loan officers who won't give them lines of credit because they don't like blacks and some cops who just hate blacks. There are far more employers who feel that the white candidate for a job is just a better fit for the company's culture or who look for flaws in a credit history because they have a bad feeling about an applicant of who honestly believe that any young black man they encounter is a match for a general APB describing a suspect as a black male in his 20s. Flock says we have to establish a "level playing field." But the field isn't level when blacks experience discrimination over and over and over again. The solution isn't to take away one of the few avenues that allow blacks to compete on a more even basis.

[silverscreenselect]

One of the biggest lies foisted on the American people inside the mainstream media/swamp echo chamber is that the USA is a racist country. In actual fact we are the most tolerant, least racist country on Earth. Of all the countries in the world, we are composed of the biggest mix of nationalities, ethnicities, religions and viewpoints. And the vast majority of us get along fine together.

Flock often makes the point that "in actual fact" the US is the least racist country in the world. I guess that's based on the fact that there are many ethnicities nationalities in this country (By that token, apartheid South Africa must have been the least racist country in the history of the world.) Or perhaps because most of us don't kill someone of another race or that there aren't any more public colored restrooms. But he's never provided any proof or documentation of that "actual fact."

Well, the "actual fact" is that the US lags behind many other civilized countries in terms of how racist our society is. For the past several years, the US News and World Report has compiled a ranking of the World's Best Countries (limited to the more advanced countries in the world). While the US in general rates very high in the rankings, our score on racial equality isn't so high. In 2022, there were 80 countries ranked:

1. Netherlands
2. Sweden
3. Norway
4. Canada
5. Finland
6. Denmark
7. New Zealand
8. Switzerland
9. Belgium
10. Australia

Conspicuously absent on that list is Flock's "most tolerant, least racist country on Earth." You'll have to go a lot farther down the list to find the United States, but we're in some pretty select company.

64. China
65 United States
66. Iran
67. Tunisia
68. Uzbekistan
69. Lithuania
70. Jordan
71. Azerbaijan
72. Myanmar
73. Bangladesh
74. Bahrain
75. U.A.E.
76. Cambodia
77. Kazakhstan
78. Romania
79. Belarus
80. Russia

Yep, lower than China. But at least we're better than such bastions of tolerance as Iran and Russia. And that's actually an improvement for the US. We ranked 69 out of 78 countries surveyed in 2021. Flock will undoubtedly claim that's just one survey (although their methodology is very extensive). But that's one more survey than any "actual fact" he's ever produced or is ever going to produce.

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countr ... l-equality

[earendel]

Flock, I agree with what you said.

Damn, me too! (At least the first post). In all of my years working for the government and having a position in the hiring process, I saw AA in action and it has never worked as it should. Same way with the Rooney Rule. If they know who they want to hire, they will, and all they're doing is wasting other people's time and possibly giving them a false hope that will remain unfufilled.

The key phrase here is 'working for the government'. The government ignored AA and hired who they wanted? The supposed arbiter and creator of these laws that everyone else was supposed to follow to the letter?

No, earl said that "I saw AA in action and it has never worked as it should." Meaning, AA was used and the results were not good. FWIW, I was up for a promotion earlier in my government career, but it went to an African-American woman who was the same grade and in a similar position to mine, but was incompetent in that position and did worse in the new one. My supervisor explained that the decision was based on seniority (she had been in her position longer than I had been in mine) but we all suspected that it was because of her race that she was promoted (she was the only Black person at that level, along with two White women and six White men).

[tlynn78]

One of the biggest lies foisted on the American people inside the mainstream media/swamp echo chamber is that the USA is a racist country. In actual fact we are the most tolerant, least racist country on Earth. Of all the countries in the world, we are composed of the biggest mix of nationalities, ethnicities, religions and viewpoints. And the vast majority of us get along fine together.

Flock often makes the point that "in actual fact" the US is the least racist country in the world. I guess that's based on the fact that there are many ethnicities nationalities in this country (By that token, apartheid South Africa must have been the least racist country in the history of the world.) Or perhaps because most of us don't kill someone of another race or that there aren't any more public colored restrooms. But he's never provided any proof or documentation of that "actual fact."

Well, the "actual fact" is that the US lags behind many other civilized countries in terms of how racist our society is. For the past several years, the US News and World Report has compiled a ranking of the World's Best Countries (limited to the more advanced countries in the world). While the US in general rates very high in the rankings, our score on racial equality isn't so high. In 2022, there were 80 countries ranked:

1. Netherlands
2. Sweden
3. Norway
4. Canada
5. Finland
6. Denmark
7. New Zealand
8. Switzerland
9. Belgium
10. Australia

Conspicuously absent on that list is Flock's "most tolerant, least racist country on Earth." You'll have to go a lot farther down the list to find the United States, but we're in some pretty select company.

64. China
65 United States
66. Iran
67. Tunisia
68. Uzbekistan
69. Lithuania
70. Jordan
71. Azerbaijan
72. Myanmar
73. Bangladesh
74. Bahrain
75. U.A.E.
76. Cambodia
77. Kazakhstan
78. Romania
79. Belarus
80. Russia

Yep, lower than China. But at least we're better than such bastions of tolerance as Iran and Russia. And that's actually an improvement for the US. We ranked 69 out of 78 countries surveyed in 2021. Flock will undoubtedly claim that's just one survey (although their methodology is very extensive). But that's one more survey than any "actual fact" he's ever produced or is ever going to produce.

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countr ... l-equality

Ludicrous. I can't seem to recall many of those countries (1-64) electing a black leader, unless one counts Justin "Black-face" Trudeau. Not surprising you give the survey credence as some who believes our current "leader" is anywhere near competent.