Elephant in the room border

The forum for general posting. Come join the madness. :)
Message
Author
User avatar
BackInTex
Posts: 12075
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 12:43 pm
Location: In Texas of course!

Re: Elephant in the room border

#26 Post by BackInTex » Fri Sep 16, 2022 11:44 am

Trying to get my facts straight here SSS. Please confirm.

Having migrants live in the streets of El Paso with no facilities to bathe or even relieve themselves is not cruel.
Putting same people on an air conditioned plane to one of the top vacation spots in the US to be cared for by sympathetic millionaires is unusually cruel.

I think I got it, but maybe you could clarify where I'm wrong.
..what country can preserve it’s liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? let them take arms.
~~ Thomas Jefferson

User avatar
jarnon
Posts: 5682
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2007 9:52 pm
Location: Merion, Pa.

Re: Elephant in the room border

#27 Post by jarnon » Fri Sep 16, 2022 12:01 pm

Who are the 50 immigrants who were flown to Massachusetts, and the 49,563 who arrived in Del Rio in July? If they sneaked across the border, they ought to be sent back right away. If they crossed the border, surrendered and applied for asylum, they're legally and morally entitled to stay until their case is decided. But they shouldn't all stay in Del Rio or even in Texas.

According to HIAS, who have been helping immigrants for over a century, their biggest need is work. They don't want to live on charity; they're eager to work, support their families, and send money home. Antiquated laws that were written to keep foreigners from taking jobs from Americans are making today's situation worse.

And couldn't DeSantis find immigrants already in Florida to fill his plane?

User avatar
Beebs52
Queen of Wack
Posts: 13312
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 11:38 am
Location: Location.Location.Location

Re: Elephant in the room border

#28 Post by Beebs52 » Fri Sep 16, 2022 12:31 pm

jarnon wrote:
Fri Sep 16, 2022 12:01 pm
Who are the 50 immigrants who were flown to Massachusetts, and the 49,563 who arrived in Del Rio in July? If they sneaked across the border, they ought to be sent back right away. If they crossed the border, surrendered and applied for asylum, they're legally and morally entitled to stay until their case is decided. But they shouldn't all stay in Del Rio or even in Texas.

According to HIAS, who have been helping immigrants for over a century, their biggest need is work. They don't want to live on charity; they're eager to work, support their families, and send money home. Antiquated laws that were written to keep foreigners from taking jobs from Americans are making today's situation worse.

And couldn't DeSantis find immigrants already in Florida to fill his plane?
Jarnon, thank you for at least entertaining both sides of the question.

The whole problem has been going on so long and no one has ever successfully addressed it.
Well, then

User avatar
BackInTex
Posts: 12075
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 12:43 pm
Location: In Texas of course!

Re: Elephant in the room border

#29 Post by BackInTex » Fri Sep 16, 2022 1:28 pm

Beebs52 wrote:
Fri Sep 16, 2022 12:31 pm
jarnon wrote:
Fri Sep 16, 2022 12:01 pm
Who are the 50 immigrants who were flown to Massachusetts, and the 49,563 who arrived in Del Rio in July? If they sneaked across the border, they ought to be sent back right away. If they crossed the border, surrendered and applied for asylum, they're legally and morally entitled to stay until their case is decided. But they shouldn't all stay in Del Rio or even in Texas.

According to HIAS, who have been helping immigrants for over a century, their biggest need is work. They don't want to live on charity; they're eager to work, support their families, and send money home. Antiquated laws that were written to keep foreigners from taking jobs from Americans are making today's situation worse.

And couldn't DeSantis find immigrants already in Florida to fill his plane?
Jarnon, thank you for at least entertaining both sides of the question.

The whole problem has been going on so long and no one has ever successfully addressed it.
I think the solution is easy. We have two good examples for an immigration policy, one on our southern border and one on our northern border.
..what country can preserve it’s liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? let them take arms.
~~ Thomas Jefferson

User avatar
Beebs52
Queen of Wack
Posts: 13312
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 11:38 am
Location: Location.Location.Location

Re: Elephant in the room border

#30 Post by Beebs52 » Fri Sep 16, 2022 2:55 pm

There is that, but also this, and even more troubling the backlog for courts.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.foxnew ... secure.amp
Well, then

User avatar
Beebs52
Queen of Wack
Posts: 13312
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 11:38 am
Location: Location.Location.Location

Re: Elephant in the room border

#31 Post by Beebs52 » Fri Sep 16, 2022 4:47 pm

CNN)President Joe Biden criticized state Republican officials who have been sending migrants north this year to protest his administration's immigration policies, accusing them of "playing politics with human beings."

Sorta like loan debt forgiveness.
Well, then

User avatar
Bob78164
Bored Moderator
Posts: 20928
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 12:02 pm
Location: By the phone

Re: Elephant in the room border

#32 Post by Bob78164 » Fri Sep 16, 2022 5:07 pm

Beebs52 wrote:
Fri Sep 16, 2022 4:47 pm
CNN)President Joe Biden criticized state Republican officials who have been sending migrants north this year to protest his administration's immigration policies, accusing them of "playing politics with human beings."

Sorta like loan debt forgiveness.
Easing a burden that makes life harder is one of the things government is supposed to be doing. Lying to folks to get them to cooperate with a photo op isn't. --Bob
"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear." Thomas Jefferson

User avatar
Beebs52
Queen of Wack
Posts: 13312
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 11:38 am
Location: Location.Location.Location

Re: Elephant in the room border

#33 Post by Beebs52 » Fri Sep 16, 2022 5:24 pm

Bob78164 wrote:
Fri Sep 16, 2022 5:07 pm
Beebs52 wrote:
Fri Sep 16, 2022 4:47 pm
CNN)President Joe Biden criticized state Republican officials who have been sending migrants north this year to protest his administration's immigration policies, accusing them of "playing politics with human beings."

Sorta like loan debt forgiveness.
Easing a burden that makes life harder is one of the things government is supposed to be doing. Lying to folks to get them to cooperate with a photo op isn't. --Bob
What? I don't recall government needing to ease a burden that makes life harder as one of the tenets of a constitutional republic. Must have missed that. I would like someone to clean my house...
Lying photo op? I must be hallucinating. Please help me.
Well, then

User avatar
Bob78164
Bored Moderator
Posts: 20928
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 12:02 pm
Location: By the phone

Re: Elephant in the room border

#34 Post by Bob78164 » Fri Sep 16, 2022 5:44 pm

Beebs52 wrote:
Fri Sep 16, 2022 5:24 pm
Bob78164 wrote:
Fri Sep 16, 2022 5:07 pm
Beebs52 wrote:
Fri Sep 16, 2022 4:47 pm
CNN)President Joe Biden criticized state Republican officials who have been sending migrants north this year to protest his administration's immigration policies, accusing them of "playing politics with human beings."

Sorta like loan debt forgiveness.
Easing a burden that makes life harder is one of the things government is supposed to be doing. Lying to folks to get them to cooperate with a photo op isn't. --Bob
What? I don't recall government needing to ease a burden that makes life harder as one of the tenets of a constitutional republic. Must have missed that. I would like someone to clean my house...
Lying photo op? I must be hallucinating. Please help me.
Planning to give up your Social Security and Medicare any time soon? Or is it only a problem when government makes someone else's life easier? --Bob
"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear." Thomas Jefferson

User avatar
Beebs52
Queen of Wack
Posts: 13312
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 11:38 am
Location: Location.Location.Location

Re: Elephant in the room border

#35 Post by Beebs52 » Fri Sep 16, 2022 5:50 pm

Bob78164 wrote:
Fri Sep 16, 2022 5:44 pm
Beebs52 wrote:
Fri Sep 16, 2022 5:24 pm
Bob78164 wrote:
Fri Sep 16, 2022 5:07 pm
Easing a burden that makes life harder is one of the things government is supposed to be doing. Lying to folks to get them to cooperate with a photo op isn't. --Bob
What? I don't recall government needing to ease a burden that makes life harder as one of the tenets of a constitutional republic. Must have missed that. I would like someone to clean my house...
Lying photo op? I must be hallucinating. Please help me.
Planning to give up your Social Security and Medicare any time soon? Or is it only a problem when government makes someone else's life easier? --Bob
Hey. I'm not about to nor do I have to give those up, until they're banished by the govt. I actually am a citizen. What's different about this picture?
And, if they did away with SS we'd be okay, since we worked our ass off for years and saved. And, yes, we donate to charities. You are so self righteous and ignorant.
Well, then

User avatar
Bob78164
Bored Moderator
Posts: 20928
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 12:02 pm
Location: By the phone

Re: Elephant in the room border

#36 Post by Bob78164 » Fri Sep 16, 2022 6:07 pm

Beebs52 wrote:
Fri Sep 16, 2022 5:50 pm
Bob78164 wrote:
Fri Sep 16, 2022 5:44 pm
Beebs52 wrote:
Fri Sep 16, 2022 5:24 pm
What? I don't recall government needing to ease a burden that makes life harder as one of the tenets of a constitutional republic. Must have missed that. I would like someone to clean my house...
Lying photo op? I must be hallucinating. Please help me.
Planning to give up your Social Security and Medicare any time soon? Or is it only a problem when government makes someone else's life easier? --Bob
Hey. I'm not about to nor do I have to give those up, until they're banished by the govt. I actually am a citizen. What's different about this picture?
And, if they did away with SS we'd be okay, since we worked our ass off for years and saved. And, yes, we donate to charities. You are so self righteous and ignorant.
The people getting loan forgiveness also are citizens. And them getting loan forgiveness doesn't hurt you a bit. So watch whom you're calling self-righteous and ignorant. --Bob
"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear." Thomas Jefferson

User avatar
Beebs52
Queen of Wack
Posts: 13312
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 11:38 am
Location: Location.Location.Location

Re: Elephant in the room border

#37 Post by Beebs52 » Fri Sep 16, 2022 6:09 pm

Bob78164 wrote:
Fri Sep 16, 2022 6:07 pm
Beebs52 wrote:
Fri Sep 16, 2022 5:50 pm
Bob78164 wrote:
Fri Sep 16, 2022 5:44 pm
Planning to give up your Social Security and Medicare any time soon? Or is it only a problem when government makes someone else's life easier? --Bob
Hey. I'm not about to nor do I have to give those up, until they're banished by the govt. I actually am a citizen. What's different about this picture?
And, if they did away with SS we'd be okay, since we worked our ass off for years and saved. And, yes, we donate to charities. You are so self righteous and ignorant.
The people getting loan forgiveness also are citizens. And them getting loan forgiveness doesn't hurt you a bit. So watch whom you're calling self-righteous and ignorant. --Bob
Actually, who do do you think will pay for that? Is this that hard?
Well, then

User avatar
Bob78164
Bored Moderator
Posts: 20928
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 12:02 pm
Location: By the phone

Re: Elephant in the room border

#38 Post by Bob78164 » Fri Sep 16, 2022 6:42 pm

Beebs52 wrote:
Fri Sep 16, 2022 6:09 pm
Bob78164 wrote:
Fri Sep 16, 2022 6:07 pm
Beebs52 wrote:
Fri Sep 16, 2022 5:50 pm
Hey. I'm not about to nor do I have to give those up, until they're banished by the govt. I actually am a citizen. What's different about this picture?
And, if they did away with SS we'd be okay, since we worked our ass off for years and saved. And, yes, we donate to charities. You are so self righteous and ignorant.
The people getting loan forgiveness also are citizens. And them getting loan forgiveness doesn't hurt you a bit. So watch whom you're calling self-righteous and ignorant. --Bob
Actually, who do do you think will pay for that? Is this that hard?
The same people and entities that pay for lots of other programs that don't benefit me directly. The only reason this one's different is that it actually makes a difference in the lives of people who can use the break. I don't recall all of this pissing and moaning in 2017 over the billionaires' tax cut. If you're worried about the deficit, that right there was a trillion-dollar giveaway, so reverse it. --Bob
"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear." Thomas Jefferson

User avatar
Beebs52
Queen of Wack
Posts: 13312
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 11:38 am
Location: Location.Location.Location

Re: Elephant in the room border

#39 Post by Beebs52 » Fri Sep 16, 2022 6:51 pm

You forget. We've been paying into SS for many decades. You know that, right?
Stop using the billionaire bs.
Tell me again the demographics for loan forgiveness. Because I can. You won't like it.
Well, then

User avatar
tlynn78
Posts: 7956
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2007 9:31 am
Location: Montana

Re: Elephant in the room border

#40 Post by tlynn78 » Fri Sep 16, 2022 10:15 pm

Beebs52 wrote:
Fri Sep 16, 2022 6:51 pm
You forget. We've been paying into SS for many decades. You know that, right?
Stop using the billionaire bs.
Tell me again the demographics for loan forgiveness. Because I can. You won't like it.
Beebs, anyone stupid enough to believe student loan "relief" is anything other than a desperate pandering for votes is far too deep in the muck to see reason.
To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead. -Thomas Paine
You can ignore reality, but you can't ignore the consequences of ignoring reality. -Ayn Rand

User avatar
kroxquo
Posts: 2768
Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2008 12:24 pm
Location: On the Road to Kingdom Come
Contact:

Re: Elephant in the room border

#41 Post by kroxquo » Sat Sep 17, 2022 5:02 am

Beebs52 wrote:
Fri Sep 16, 2022 5:24 pm
Bob78164 wrote:
Fri Sep 16, 2022 5:07 pm
Beebs52 wrote:
Fri Sep 16, 2022 4:47 pm
CNN)President Joe Biden criticized state Republican officials who have been sending migrants north this year to protest his administration's immigration policies, accusing them of "playing politics with human beings."

Sorta like loan debt forgiveness.
Easing a burden that makes life harder is one of the things government is supposed to be doing. Lying to folks to get them to cooperate with a photo op isn't. --Bob
What? I don't recall government needing to ease a burden that makes life harder as one of the tenets of a constitutional republic. Must have missed that. I would like someone to clean my house...
"Insure domestic tranquility...Promote the general welfare and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity."
You live and learn. Or at least you live. - Douglas Adams

User avatar
silverscreenselect
Posts: 21112
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 11:21 pm
Contact:

Re: Elephant in the room border

#42 Post by silverscreenselect » Sat Sep 17, 2022 6:44 am

Beebs52 wrote:
Fri Sep 16, 2022 6:51 pm
Tell me again the demographics for loan forgiveness. Because I can. You won't like it.
It makes sense that those who attend college (with the aid of student loans in many cases) are going to have higher incomes than those who don't. So I do like it.
Check out our website: http://www.silverscreenvideos.com

User avatar
BackInTex
Posts: 12075
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 12:43 pm
Location: In Texas of course!

Re: Elephant in the room border

#43 Post by BackInTex » Sat Sep 17, 2022 10:53 am

silverscreenselect wrote:
Sat Sep 17, 2022 6:44 am
Beebs52 wrote:
Fri Sep 16, 2022 6:51 pm
Tell me again the demographics for loan forgiveness. Because I can. You won't like it.
It makes sense that those who attend college (with the aid of student loans in many cases) are going to have higher incomes than those who don't. So I do like it.
The fact that I would qualify for debt forgiveness is laughable. You and Bob are so hypocritical with the “billionaire” and “millionaire “ supposed benefits yet here you’re more than ok with the guy mowing my yard to pay off something I bought.
..what country can preserve it’s liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? let them take arms.
~~ Thomas Jefferson

User avatar
Beebs52
Queen of Wack
Posts: 13312
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 11:38 am
Location: Location.Location.Location

Re: Elephant in the room border

#44 Post by Beebs52 » Sat Sep 17, 2022 11:24 am

BackInTex wrote:
Sat Sep 17, 2022 10:53 am
silverscreenselect wrote:
Sat Sep 17, 2022 6:44 am
Beebs52 wrote:
Fri Sep 16, 2022 6:51 pm
Tell me again the demographics for loan forgiveness. Because I can. You won't like it.
It makes sense that those who attend college (with the aid of student loans in many cases) are going to have higher incomes than those who don't. So I do like it.
The fact that I would qualify for debt forgiveness is laughable. You and Bob are so hypocritical with the “billionaire” and “millionaire “ supposed benefits yet here you’re more than ok with the guy mowing my yard to pay off something I bought.
Only we are hypocritical. Dint you know?
Well, then

User avatar
silverscreenselect
Posts: 21112
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 11:21 pm
Contact:

Re: Elephant in the room border

#45 Post by silverscreenselect » Sat Sep 17, 2022 11:58 am

BackInTex wrote:
Sat Sep 17, 2022 10:53 am
The fact that I would qualify for debt forgiveness is laughable. You and Bob are so hypocritical with the “billionaire” and “millionaire “ supposed benefits yet here you’re more than ok with the guy mowing my yard to pay off something I bought.
I'm assuming that you went to college quite a few years ago. Since that time, you've accumulated years of experience on top of your education and been able to get raises, promotions, and qualify for better jobs.

So you're not in the same situation as someone in their early to mid 20s who is saddled with a large college debt and looking to land something better than an entry-level job. The institutions that loaned them money won't wait for them to get to an income level where any possible debt forgiveness is laughable.
Check out our website: http://www.silverscreenvideos.com

User avatar
BackInTex
Posts: 12075
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 12:43 pm
Location: In Texas of course!

Re: Elephant in the room border

#46 Post by BackInTex » Sat Sep 17, 2022 12:22 pm

silverscreenselect wrote:
Sat Sep 17, 2022 11:58 am
BackInTex wrote:
Sat Sep 17, 2022 10:53 am
The fact that I would qualify for debt forgiveness is laughable. You and Bob are so hypocritical with the “billionaire” and “millionaire “ supposed benefits yet here you’re more than ok with the guy mowing my yard to pay off something I bought.
I'm assuming that you went to college quite a few years ago. Since that time, you've accumulated years of experience on top of your education and been able to get raises, promotions, and qualify for better jobs.

So you're not in the same situation as someone in their early to mid 20s who is saddled with a large college debt and looking to land something better than an entry-level job. The institutions that loaned them money won't wait for them to get to an income level where any possible debt forgiveness is laughable.
$200k for a married couple qualifies. It’s absurd whether they got out of college yesterday or the last century.
..what country can preserve it’s liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? let them take arms.
~~ Thomas Jefferson

User avatar
Bob Juch
Posts: 25354
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 11:58 am
Location: Oro Valley, Arizona
Contact:

Re: Elephant in the room border

#47 Post by Bob Juch » Sat Sep 17, 2022 1:50 pm

I have mixed feelings about the student loan forgiveness.

For one thing, it's not enough. $10,000 is a small fraction of many people's loans, especially those with advanced degrees. Having an advanced degree might lead to a higher income, but what about someone who was a history major and can't find a better job than managing a McDonald's?

I see the real problem is that higher education has gotten too expensive. I believe that most of that is due to student loans. If there were no such thing, colleges would have to lower the expense of going there. There'd not be textbooks costing $150.

If I ran things, I'd make community colleges free. I'd also have state colleges offer need-based scholarships, paid from our taxes.

More to come later. I need to go help my daughter.
I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I needed to be.
- Douglas Adams (1952 - 2001)

Si fractum non sit, noli id reficere.

Teach a child to be polite and courteous in the home and, when he grows up, he'll never be able to drive in New Jersey.

User avatar
Beebs52
Queen of Wack
Posts: 13312
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 11:38 am
Location: Location.Location.Location

Re: Elephant in the room border

#48 Post by Beebs52 » Sat Sep 17, 2022 2:25 pm

You make good points.
Well, then

User avatar
Bob78164
Bored Moderator
Posts: 20928
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 12:02 pm
Location: By the phone

Re: Elephant in the room border

#49 Post by Bob78164 » Sat Sep 17, 2022 6:37 pm

Beebs52 wrote:
Fri Sep 16, 2022 6:51 pm
You forget. We've been paying into SS for many decades. You know that, right?
Stop using the billionaire bs.
Tell me again the demographics for loan forgiveness. Because I can. You won't like it.
You do realize that Social Security is a pay-as-you-go program. Your Social Security taxes paid for someone else's benefits. Mine are paying for yours. When I finally get some benefits (assuming I live long enough to collect them), someone else's taxes will pay for them. --Bob
"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear." Thomas Jefferson

User avatar
silverscreenselect
Posts: 21112
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 11:21 pm
Contact:

Re: Elephant in the room border

#50 Post by silverscreenselect » Tue Sep 20, 2022 8:32 am

The sheriff of Bexar County (San Antonio), TX, has begun an investigation into the trip of the migrants from San Antonio to Martha's Vinyard.
Authorities in Texas have opened a criminal investigation into Gov. Ron DeSantis’ operation to fly roughly 50 Venezuelan migrants from Texas to Martha’s Vineyard last week. Bexar County Sheriff Javier Salazar announced at a news conference Monday that his office is investigating whether the migrants were the victims of a crime, saying they were “lured under false pretenses.” Many migrants said they agreed to fly from San Antonio to the Massachusetts island after being promised jobs. But there was no work waiting. “I believe people need to be held accountable for it to the extent possible,” Salazar said. “At this point, I’m not able to definitively say here’s the statute that they broke, either federal, state or local, but what I can tell you is it’s wrong. Just from a human rights perspective, what was done to these folks is wrong.

On Monday night, DeSantis appeared on Sean Hannity’s Fox News show and defended the flights. The governor said the program was “clearly voluntary and all the other nonsense you are hearing is just not true.”

But the migrants said they were recruited for the Martha’s Vineyard trip with falsehoods. Several said that a woman known as “Perla,” who is not believed to be a migrant, approached them outside a migrant resource center in San Antonio and offered them jobs and assistance if they flew to Massachusetts. Those claims of employment and other opportunities turned out to be false as officials on Martha’s Vineyard were unprepared for their arrival last Wednesday. In addition, brochures provided to the migrants said they could receive cash assistance and employment services after landing. The brochures included the phone number and website of the Massachusetts Office for Refugees and Immigrants. The office said it did not print the brochures, which were shared with the Herald by Lawyers for Civil Rights, a Boston-based legal group representing some of the migrants.

While “Perla’s” full name and connections have not yet been publicly revealed — despite a handbill, distributed by the League of United Latin American Citizens (LULAC), offering $5,000 for information on her identity — Salazar suggested the investigation could reach Florida. “If somebody’s in Florida and they need to be brought here to be brought to justice, that’s just paperwork at that point,” the sheriff said.

The migrants have legal status in the United States, having presented themselves to U.S. authorities after crossing the border in Texas and seeking asylum status. DeSantis has said the flights were financed with Florida taxpayer money meant to remove migrants from Florida. All the migrants boarded in San Antonio, which is in Bexar County, although the planes stopped in Florida’s Panhandle to refuel. Transporting migrants from Texas with Florida money appears to conflict with language included in the state budget that authorized the $12 million program. Passed by the Republican-controlled Legislature and supported by most Democrats, the budget instructed the Florida Department of Transportation to spend the funds “to facilitate the transport of unauthorized aliens from this state.”
https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/ ... 44016.html
Check out our website: http://www.silverscreenvideos.com

Post Reply