FBI is raiding Mar-a-Lago

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Re: FBI is raiding Mar-a-La

#76 Post by silverscreenselect » Fri Aug 12, 2022 6:26 pm

Beebs52 wrote:
Fri Aug 12, 2022 5:27 pm
Nor have they confirmed.
Not even Flock's lawyer would confirm something that would subject his client to 20 years in prison under the Espionage Act.
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Re: FBI is raiding Mar-a-La

#77 Post by Beebs52 » Fri Aug 12, 2022 7:05 pm

silverscreenselect wrote:
Fri Aug 12, 2022 6:26 pm
Beebs52 wrote:
Fri Aug 12, 2022 5:27 pm
Nor have they confirmed.
Not even Flock's lawyer would confirm something that would subject his client to 20 years in prison under the Espionage Act.
Whatevs
Well, then

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Re: FBI is raiding Mar-a-Lago

#78 Post by silverscreenselect » Fri Aug 12, 2022 7:17 pm

1) CNN reports that the FBI is fingerprinting each document to see who touched them.

2) The copy of the warrant released by the court redacted the names of the FBI agents in charge of the search. However, right wing media got hold of that information (probably from Trump's copy of the warrant) and has posted it online. Not surprisingly, those agents and their families have already received death threats on right-wing social media sites.
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Re: FBI is raiding Mar-a-Lago

#79 Post by Beebs52 » Fri Aug 12, 2022 7:22 pm

Where's the affidavit?
Well, then

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Re: FBI is raiding Mar-a-Lago

#80 Post by Bob Juch » Fri Aug 12, 2022 8:24 pm

Beebs52 wrote:
Fri Aug 12, 2022 7:22 pm
Where's the affidavit?
That's still sealed, but here's the search warrant: https://www.politico.com/f/?id=00000182 ... 97a6f90000
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Re: FBI is raiding Mar-a-Lago

#81 Post by Beebs52 » Fri Aug 12, 2022 8:35 pm

Bob Juch wrote:
Fri Aug 12, 2022 8:24 pm
Beebs52 wrote:
Fri Aug 12, 2022 7:22 pm
Where's the affidavit?
That's still sealed, but here's the search warrant: https://www.politico.com/f/?id=00000182 ... 97a6f90000
I meant the affidavit to get the warrant.
Well, then

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Re: FBI is raiding Mar-a-Lago

#82 Post by silverscreenselect » Fri Aug 12, 2022 9:24 pm

Beebs52 wrote:
Fri Aug 12, 2022 8:35 pm
Bob Juch wrote:
Fri Aug 12, 2022 8:24 pm
Beebs52 wrote:
Fri Aug 12, 2022 7:22 pm
Where's the affidavit?
That's still sealed, but here's the search warrant: https://www.politico.com/f/?id=00000182 ... 97a6f90000
I meant the affidavit to get the warrant.
The affidavit is still sealed because this is an ongoing investigation. The affidavit probably named the sources and other sensitive information. If charges are brought against Trump, he could then challenge the search. This article describes in detail why the affidavit will probably remain sealed unless and until charges are brought. If the affidavit names the sources are gives enough information so that people can figure out who the sources are, their lives could be in danger. It would be the same as revealing the sources in a search warrant affidavit for a mob boss.

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Re: FBI is raiding Mar-a-Lago

#83 Post by Bob Juch » Sat Aug 13, 2022 7:59 am

TFG wrote:President Barack Hussein Obama kept 33 million pages of documents, much of them classified. How many of them pertained to nuclear? Word is, lots!
Wrong!

“NARA moved approximately 30 million pages of unclassified records to a NARA facility in the Chicago area where they are maintained exclusively by NARA. Additionally, NARA maintains the classified Obama Presidential records in a NARA facility in the Washington, DC, area,” the statement reads. “As required by the PRA, former President Obama has no control over where and how NARA stores the Presidential records of his Administration.”
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Re: FBI is raiding Mar-a-Lago

#84 Post by Bob Juch » Sat Aug 13, 2022 3:59 pm

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/13/us/p ... l-fbi.html

Trump Lawyer Told Justice Dept. That Classified Material Had Been Returned

The lawyer signed a statement in June that all documents marked as classified and held in boxes in storage at Mar-a-Lago had been given back. The search at the former president’s home on Monday turned up more.

At least one lawyer for former President Donald J. Trump signed a written statement in June asserting that all material marked as classified and held in boxes in a storage area at Mr. Trump’s Mar-a-Lago residence and club had been returned to the government, four people with knowledge of the document said.

The written declaration was made after a visit on June 3 to Mar-a-Lago by Jay I. Bratt, the top counterintelligence official in the Justice Department’s national security division.

The existence of the signed declaration, which has not previously been reported, is a possible indication that Mr. Trump or his team were not fully forthcoming with federal investigators about the material. And it could help explain why a potential violation of a criminal statute related to obstruction was cited by the department as one basis for seeking the warrant used to carry out the daylong search of the former president’s home on Monday, an extraordinary step that generated political shock waves.

It also helps to further explain the sequence of events that prompted the Justice Department’s decision to conduct the search after months in which it had tried to resolve the matter through discussions with Mr. Trump and his team.

An inventory of the material taken from Mr. Trump’s home that was released on Friday showed that F.B.I. agents seized 11 sets of documents during the search with some type of confidential or secret marking on them, including some marked as “classified/TS/SCI” — shorthand for “top secret/sensitive compartmented information.” Information categorized in that fashion is meant to be viewed only in a secure government facility.

The search encompassed not just the storage area where boxes of material known to the Justice Department were being held but also Mr. Trump’s office and residence. The search warrant and inventory unsealed on Friday did not specify where in the Mar-a-Lago complex the documents marked as classified were found.

Mr. Trump said on Friday that he had declassified all the material in his possession while he was still in office. He did not provide any documentation that he had done so.

In an appearance on Fox News on Friday night, the right-wing writer John Solomon, whom Mr. Trump has designated as one of his representatives to interact with the National Archives, read a statement from the former president’s office claiming that Mr. Trump had a “standing order” that documents taken out of the Oval Office and brought to the White House residence “were deemed to be declassified the moment he removed them.”

A spokesman for the former president, Taylor Budowich, said on Saturday, “Just like every Democrat-fabricated witch hunt previously, the water of this unprecedented and unnecessary raid is being carried by a media willing to run with suggestive leaks, anonymous sources and no hard facts.”

The search warrant said F.B.I. agents were carrying out the search to look for evidence related to possible violations of the obstruction statute as well as the Espionage Act and a statute that bars the unlawful taking or destruction of government records or documents. No one has been charged in the case, and the search warrant on its own does not mean anyone will be.

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Re: FBI is raiding Mar-a-Lago

#85 Post by jarnon » Sat Aug 13, 2022 4:33 pm

Bob Juch wrote:
Sat Aug 13, 2022 3:59 pm
Mr. Trump said on Friday that he had declassified all the material in his possession while he was still in office. He did not provide any documentation that he had done so.

In an appearance on Fox News on Friday night, the right-wing writer John Solomon, whom Mr. Trump has designated as one of his representatives to interact with the National Archives, read a statement from the former president’s office claiming that Mr. Trump had a “standing order” that documents taken out of the Oval Office and brought to the White House residence “were deemed to be declassified the moment he removed them.”
This is one of many news reports that show ignorance of the classification and declassification process.

A document has no inherent classification and can’t be declassified. A document’s classification depends on the facts it contains. The author of a document relies on classification guides such as these:
IMINT Classification Guide
NRO Classification Guide

The higher an official is, the more leeway he has in following the rules for handling classified material. So it’s plausible that Trump was permitted to remove SCI documents from a SCIF to read in his residence. But the documents didn’t magically become unclassified when he removed them.

I’m familiar with these rules because I had SCI access for 25 years. I remember listening intently at my clearance briefing since I had just signed a document acknowledging the penalties for violation, which ranged from fines to dismissal to incarceration to death. Trump wasn’t subject to the same penalties, so he didn’t have as much incentive to pay close attention at his clearance briefing.

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Re: FBI is raiding Mar-a-Lago

#86 Post by Bob Juch » Sun Aug 14, 2022 3:12 pm

Franklin Veaux wrote:I can’t keep up.

The documents were declassified but they were also privileged but Obama did the same thing but they were planted by the FBI but it was just carelessness. The official Trump narrative is changing minute by minute and it’s impossible to come to a conclusion on one story before the next story comes out.

I will say that someone that careless with classified nuclear documents should never have been anywhere near the White House in the first place.

Also, can you imagine what the conservatives would be saying if Hillary was like “oh, yeah, my emails, I was just careless, no big deal”? Holy shit they’d be losing their minds.
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Re: FBI is raiding Mar-a-Lago

#87 Post by tlynn78 » Mon Aug 15, 2022 10:53 am

Bob Juch wrote:
Sun Aug 14, 2022 3:12 pm
Franklin Veaux wrote:I can’t keep up.

The documents were declassified but they were also privileged but Obama did the same thing but they were planted by the FBI but it was just carelessness. The official Trump narrative is changing minute by minute and it’s impossible to come to a conclusion on one story before the next story comes out.

I will say that someone that careless with classified nuclear documents should never have been anywhere near the White House in the first place.

Also, can you imagine what the conservatives would be saying if Hillary was like “oh, yeah, my emails, I was just careless, no big deal”? Holy shit they’d be losing their minds.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: FBI is raiding Mar-a-Lago

#88 Post by silverscreenselect » Mon Aug 15, 2022 1:43 pm

From the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette today:
A Mercer County man threatened to murder FBI agents last week after the bureau's search of Donald Trump's Florida estate, saying "come and get me you piece of [expletive] feds" and "I am going to [expletive] slaughter you," according to a federal complaint filed Monday in Pittsburgh. Adam Bies, 46, is charged in U.S. District Court with influencing, impeding or retaliating against federal law officers. He is in U.S. custody and is set for an initial appearance hearing this afternoon before a federal magistrate judge.

According to an FBI affidavit, Bies issued a variety of threats on Gab after agents searched Trump's Mar-a-Lago complex for evidence of stolen classified documents. He compared the FBI to the Nazi SS and the Soviet-era KGB and said everyone at the FBI, from agents to janitors, should be killed. "My only goal is to kill more of them before I drop," he wrote on Thursday. "I will not spend one second of my life in their custody."

The case began that day when an FBI national threat team received a tip from a domestic terrorism tracking group that someone calling himself "BlankFocus" was posting threats on Gab. "If you work for the FBI then you deserve to die," the poster wrote in one message. After an emergency request for information, Gab provided subscriber data for "Adam Campbell," which the FBI said is an alias that Bies said he used "so that corporate Murica' can't google me out of a job." Agents tracked Bies' IP address to his residence on Falls Road in rural Mercer County.

A review of his Gab chats from Wednesday revealed other threats against the FBI, agents said. In one post, according to the affidavit, he said, "HEY FEDS. We the people cannot WAIT to water the trees of liberty with your blood. I’ll be waiting for you to kick down my door.”
For those interested, Mercer County is on the Ohio border, north of Pittsburgh. Trump carried the county with 62% of the vote in 2020.

https://www.post-gazette.com/news/crime ... 2208150059
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Re: FBI is raiding Mar-a-Lago

#89 Post by Weyoun » Mon Aug 15, 2022 7:41 pm

silverscreenselect wrote:
Mon Aug 15, 2022 1:43 pm
From the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette today:
A Mercer County man threatened to murder FBI agents last week after the bureau's search of Donald Trump's Florida estate, saying "come and get me you piece of [expletive] feds" and "I am going to [expletive] slaughter you," according to a federal complaint filed Monday in Pittsburgh. Adam Bies, 46, is charged in U.S. District Court with influencing, impeding or retaliating against federal law officers. He is in U.S. custody and is set for an initial appearance hearing this afternoon before a federal magistrate judge.

According to an FBI affidavit, Bies issued a variety of threats on Gab after agents searched Trump's Mar-a-Lago complex for evidence of stolen classified documents. He compared the FBI to the Nazi SS and the Soviet-era KGB and said everyone at the FBI, from agents to janitors, should be killed. "My only goal is to kill more of them before I drop," he wrote on Thursday. "I will not spend one second of my life in their custody."

The case began that day when an FBI national threat team received a tip from a domestic terrorism tracking group that someone calling himself "BlankFocus" was posting threats on Gab. "If you work for the FBI then you deserve to die," the poster wrote in one message. After an emergency request for information, Gab provided subscriber data for "Adam Campbell," which the FBI said is an alias that Bies said he used "so that corporate Murica' can't google me out of a job." Agents tracked Bies' IP address to his residence on Falls Road in rural Mercer County.

A review of his Gab chats from Wednesday revealed other threats against the FBI, agents said. In one post, according to the affidavit, he said, "HEY FEDS. We the people cannot WAIT to water the trees of liberty with your blood. I’ll be waiting for you to kick down my door.”
For those interested, Mercer County is on the Ohio border, north of Pittsburgh. Trump carried the county with 62% of the vote in 2020.

https://www.post-gazette.com/news/crime ... 2208150059
I am familiar with the area since I’ve worked at one of its hospitals.

Unfailingly polite patients. Then you go somewhere in town and there is a billboard that will say something like FUCK BIDEN AND FUCK YOU FOR VOTING FOR HIM.

Weird sea change among the 20-60 year old males, who would have never sworn in front of kids, and now put this crap in their yard.

Yet they complain about others degrading the culture.

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Re: FBI is raiding Mar-a-Lago

#90 Post by kroxquo » Tue Aug 16, 2022 5:08 am

silverscreenselect wrote:
Mon Aug 15, 2022 1:43 pm
From the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette today:
A Mercer County man threatened to murder FBI agents last week after the bureau's search of Donald Trump's Florida estate, saying "come and get me you piece of [expletive] feds" and "I am going to [expletive] slaughter you," according to a federal complaint filed Monday in Pittsburgh. Adam Bies, 46, is charged in U.S. District Court with influencing, impeding or retaliating against federal law officers. He is in U.S. custody and is set for an initial appearance hearing this afternoon before a federal magistrate judge.

According to an FBI affidavit, Bies issued a variety of threats on Gab after agents searched Trump's Mar-a-Lago complex for evidence of stolen classified documents. He compared the FBI to the Nazi SS and the Soviet-era KGB and said everyone at the FBI, from agents to janitors, should be killed. "My only goal is to kill more of them before I drop," he wrote on Thursday. "I will not spend one second of my life in their custody."

The case began that day when an FBI national threat team received a tip from a domestic terrorism tracking group that someone calling himself "BlankFocus" was posting threats on Gab. "If you work for the FBI then you deserve to die," the poster wrote in one message. After an emergency request for information, Gab provided subscriber data for "Adam Campbell," which the FBI said is an alias that Bies said he used "so that corporate Murica' can't google me out of a job." Agents tracked Bies' IP address to his residence on Falls Road in rural Mercer County.

A review of his Gab chats from Wednesday revealed other threats against the FBI, agents said. In one post, according to the affidavit, he said, "HEY FEDS. We the people cannot WAIT to water the trees of liberty with your blood. I’ll be waiting for you to kick down my door.”
For those interested, Mercer County is on the Ohio border, north of Pittsburgh. Trump carried the county with 62% of the vote in 2020.

https://www.post-gazette.com/news/crime ... 2208150059
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Re: FBI is raiding Mar-a-Lago

#91 Post by BackInTex » Tue Aug 16, 2022 7:28 am

silverscreenselect wrote:
Mon Aug 15, 2022 1:43 pm
From the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette today:
A Mercer County man threatened to murder FBI agents last week after the bureau's search of Donald Trump's Florida estate, saying "come and get me you piece of [expletive] feds" and "I am going to [expletive] slaughter you," according to a federal complaint filed Monday in Pittsburgh. Adam Bies, 46, is charged in U.S. District Court with influencing, impeding or retaliating against federal law officers. He is in U.S. custody and is set for an initial appearance hearing this afternoon before a federal magistrate judge.

According to an FBI affidavit, Bies issued a variety of threats on Gab after agents searched Trump's Mar-a-Lago complex for evidence of stolen classified documents. He compared the FBI to the Nazi SS and the Soviet-era KGB and said everyone at the FBI, from agents to janitors, should be killed. "My only goal is to kill more of them before I drop," he wrote on Thursday. "I will not spend one second of my life in their custody."

The case began that day when an FBI national threat team received a tip from a domestic terrorism tracking group that someone calling himself "BlankFocus" was posting threats on Gab. "If you work for the FBI then you deserve to die," the poster wrote in one message. After an emergency request for information, Gab provided subscriber data for "Adam Campbell," which the FBI said is an alias that Bies said he used "so that corporate Murica' can't google me out of a job." Agents tracked Bies' IP address to his residence on Falls Road in rural Mercer County.

A review of his Gab chats from Wednesday revealed other threats against the FBI, agents said. In one post, according to the affidavit, he said, "HEY FEDS. We the people cannot WAIT to water the trees of liberty with your blood. I’ll be waiting for you to kick down my door.”
For those interested, Mercer County is on the Ohio border, north of Pittsburgh. Trump carried the county with 62% of the vote in 2020.

https://www.post-gazette.com/news/crime ... 2208150059
Well then, probably a great place to live, likely low crime and good schools.
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Re: FBI is raiding Mar-a-Lago

#92 Post by Weyoun » Tue Aug 16, 2022 8:13 am

BackInTex wrote:
Tue Aug 16, 2022 7:28 am
silverscreenselect wrote:
Mon Aug 15, 2022 1:43 pm
From the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette today:
A Mercer County man threatened to murder FBI agents last week after the bureau's search of Donald Trump's Florida estate, saying "come and get me you piece of [expletive] feds" and "I am going to [expletive] slaughter you," according to a federal complaint filed Monday in Pittsburgh. Adam Bies, 46, is charged in U.S. District Court with influencing, impeding or retaliating against federal law officers. He is in U.S. custody and is set for an initial appearance hearing this afternoon before a federal magistrate judge.

According to an FBI affidavit, Bies issued a variety of threats on Gab after agents searched Trump's Mar-a-Lago complex for evidence of stolen classified documents. He compared the FBI to the Nazi SS and the Soviet-era KGB and said everyone at the FBI, from agents to janitors, should be killed. "My only goal is to kill more of them before I drop," he wrote on Thursday. "I will not spend one second of my life in their custody."

The case began that day when an FBI national threat team received a tip from a domestic terrorism tracking group that someone calling himself "BlankFocus" was posting threats on Gab. "If you work for the FBI then you deserve to die," the poster wrote in one message. After an emergency request for information, Gab provided subscriber data for "Adam Campbell," which the FBI said is an alias that Bies said he used "so that corporate Murica' can't google me out of a job." Agents tracked Bies' IP address to his residence on Falls Road in rural Mercer County.

A review of his Gab chats from Wednesday revealed other threats against the FBI, agents said. In one post, according to the affidavit, he said, "HEY FEDS. We the people cannot WAIT to water the trees of liberty with your blood. I’ll be waiting for you to kick down my door.”
For those interested, Mercer County is on the Ohio border, north of Pittsburgh. Trump carried the county with 62% of the vote in 2020.

https://www.post-gazette.com/news/crime ... 2208150059
Well then, probably a great place to live, likely low crime and good schools.
Not really.

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Re: FBI is raiding Mar-a-Lago

#93 Post by Spock » Tue Aug 16, 2022 8:56 am

Weyoun wrote:
Tue Aug 16, 2022 8:13 am
BackInTex wrote:
Tue Aug 16, 2022 7:28 am
silverscreenselect wrote:
Mon Aug 15, 2022 1:43 pm
From the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette today:



For those interested, Mercer County is on the Ohio border, north of Pittsburgh. Trump carried the county with 62% of the vote in 2020.

https://www.post-gazette.com/news/crime ... 2208150059
Well then, probably a great place to live, likely low crime and good schools.
Not really.
I will play the odds. I would rather send my kids to a randomly chosen public school in a Trump county anywhere in the country VS a randomly chosen public school in a Biden county anywhere in the country.

I suspect you would make the same choice. If not-welcome to the Detroit public school system. That is what came up randomly for your kids. OTOH, Oh No!!!! My kids have to attend school in Mercer County. Pennsylvania. I can live with that.

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Re: FBI is raiding Mar-a-Lago

#94 Post by Weyoun » Tue Aug 16, 2022 8:59 am

Spock wrote:
Tue Aug 16, 2022 8:56 am
Weyoun wrote:
Tue Aug 16, 2022 8:13 am
BackInTex wrote:
Tue Aug 16, 2022 7:28 am

Well then, probably a great place to live, likely low crime and good schools.
Not really.
I will play the odds. I would rather send my kids to a randomly chosen public school in a Trump county anywhere in the country VS a randomly chosen public school in a Biden county anywhere in the country.

I suspect you would make the same choice. If not-welcome to the Detroit public school system. That is what came up randomly for your kids. OTOH, Oh No!!!! My kids have to attend school in Mercer County. Pennsylvania. I can live with that.
For some nagging reason, I keep thinking you picked those two locations because you don’t want to be around Black people.

Anyway, my own county, Allegheny, has some absolutely terrific school districts, that incidentally went for Biden. The safest town in Pennsylvania (Munhall according to the stats) is in Allegheny County. There is also one notably terrible school district and areas where there are crime. That’s what happens when you get a bunch of people together.

Doesn’t surprise me that we see more than a few nurses, respiratory techs, and other folks who work at our hospital who had moved to the dangerous big city after growing up in Mercer County. They seem to be OK raising their families here.

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Re: FBI is raiding Mar-a-Lago

#95 Post by Spock » Tue Aug 16, 2022 9:25 am

Weyoun wrote:
Tue Aug 16, 2022 8:59 am
Spock wrote:
Tue Aug 16, 2022 8:56 am
Weyoun wrote:
Tue Aug 16, 2022 8:13 am


Not really.
I will play the odds. I would rather send my kids to a randomly chosen public school in a Trump county anywhere in the country VS a randomly chosen public school in a Biden county anywhere in the country.

I suspect you would make the same choice. If not-welcome to the Detroit public school system. That is what came up randomly for your kids. OTOH, Oh No!!!! My kids have to attend school in Mercer County. Pennsylvania. I can live with that.
For some nagging reason, I keep thinking you picked those two locations because you don’t want to be around Black people.
I don't owe you a response but I am around Mexicans (from Mexico) every day-so take that FWIW.

I bet you most people who move from Mercer County and such to the Pittsburgh Metro for work-probably don't choose to live in the worst parts of town.

Lots of people from here move to the Minneapolis/ St. Paul Metro-but I can't think of any that send their kids to Minneapolis North High School.

Most of them might even live in Republican precincts.

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Re: FBI is raiding Mar-a-Lago

#96 Post by Weyoun » Tue Aug 16, 2022 9:59 am

Spock wrote:
Tue Aug 16, 2022 9:25 am
Weyoun wrote:
Tue Aug 16, 2022 8:59 am
Spock wrote:
Tue Aug 16, 2022 8:56 am


I will play the odds. I would rather send my kids to a randomly chosen public school in a Trump county anywhere in the country VS a randomly chosen public school in a Biden county anywhere in the country.

I suspect you would make the same choice. If not-welcome to the Detroit public school system. That is what came up randomly for your kids. OTOH, Oh No!!!! My kids have to attend school in Mercer County. Pennsylvania. I can live with that.
For some nagging reason, I keep thinking you picked those two locations because you don’t want to be around Black people.
I don't owe you a response but I am around Mexicans (from Mexico) every day-so take that FWIW.

I bet you most people who move from Mercer County and such to the Pittsburgh Metro for work-probably don't choose to live in the worst parts of town.

Lots of people from here move to the Minneapolis/ St. Paul Metro-but I can't think of any that send their kids to Minneapolis North High School.

Most of them might even live in Republican precincts.
That is great that you’re around Mexicans who were actually from Mexico. Anything else would’ve been strange. While you extol the virtues of rural life, perhaps ask yourself, why do we need to bring labor from Mexico to live in these places?

Why do the educated in places like Mercer County promptly move? And, yes, some do move to not great parts of town. I think you’ve heard of gentrification.

Anyway, it makes me think these areas aren’t all that.

I’m sympathetic to the problem that rural area can no longer sustain jobs or a feasible way of life for some folks. It is certainly a problem and it helps feed into Trumpism to boot.

Spock
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Re: FBI is raiding Mar-a-Lago

#97 Post by Spock » Tue Aug 16, 2022 12:39 pm

Weyoun wrote:
Tue Aug 16, 2022 8:59 am
Spock wrote:
Tue Aug 16, 2022 8:56 am
Weyoun wrote:
Tue Aug 16, 2022 8:13 am


Not really.
I will play the odds. I would rather send my kids to a randomly chosen public school in a Trump county anywhere in the country VS a randomly chosen public school in a Biden county anywhere in the country.

I suspect you would make the same choice. If not-welcome to the Detroit public school system. That is what came up randomly for your kids. OTOH, Oh No!!!! My kids have to attend school in Mercer County. Pennsylvania. I can live with that.
For some nagging reason, I keep thinking you picked those two locations because you don’t want to be around Black people.

Anyway, my own county, Allegheny, has some absolutely terrific school districts, that incidentally went for Biden. The safest town in Pennsylvania (Munhall according to the stats) is in Allegheny County. There is also one notably terrible school district and areas where there are crime. That’s what happens when you get a bunch of people together.

Doesn’t surprise me that we see more than a few nurses, respiratory techs, and other folks who work at our hospital who had moved to the dangerous big city after growing up in Mercer County. They seem to be OK raising their families here.
So, I guess you would be great with sending your kids to the Detroit (or any number of other similar places) public school system. If not, it must mean that you don't like Black people.

Actually, ROFLMAO-Call me about my aversion to Black People when you have flown Air Ethiopia and switched planes in Addis Ababa.

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Weyoun
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Re: FBI is raiding Mar-a-Lago

#98 Post by Weyoun » Tue Aug 16, 2022 12:54 pm

Spock wrote:
Tue Aug 16, 2022 12:39 pm
Weyoun wrote:
Tue Aug 16, 2022 8:59 am
Spock wrote:
Tue Aug 16, 2022 8:56 am


I will play the odds. I would rather send my kids to a randomly chosen public school in a Trump county anywhere in the country VS a randomly chosen public school in a Biden county anywhere in the country.

I suspect you would make the same choice. If not-welcome to the Detroit public school system. That is what came up randomly for your kids. OTOH, Oh No!!!! My kids have to attend school in Mercer County. Pennsylvania. I can live with that.
For some nagging reason, I keep thinking you picked those two locations because you don’t want to be around Black people.

Anyway, my own county, Allegheny, has some absolutely terrific school districts, that incidentally went for Biden. The safest town in Pennsylvania (Munhall according to the stats) is in Allegheny County. There is also one notably terrible school district and areas where there are crime. That’s what happens when you get a bunch of people together.

Doesn’t surprise me that we see more than a few nurses, respiratory techs, and other folks who work at our hospital who had moved to the dangerous big city after growing up in Mercer County. They seem to be OK raising their families here.
So, I guess you would be great with sending your kids to the Detroit (or any number of other similar places) public school system. If not, it must mean that you don't like Black people.

Actually, ROFLMAO-Call me about my aversion to Black People when you have flown Air Ethiopia and switched planes in Addis Ababa.
I am sorry. I had no idea you had switched planes in Africa. I take back everything I said.

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jarnon
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Re: FBI is raiding Mar-a-Lago

#99 Post by jarnon » Wed Aug 17, 2022 9:27 am

jarnon wrote:
Sat Aug 13, 2022 4:33 pm
Bob Juch wrote:
Sat Aug 13, 2022 3:59 pm
Mr. Trump said on Friday that he had declassified all the material in his possession while he was still in office. He did not provide any documentation that he had done so.

In an appearance on Fox News on Friday night, the right-wing writer John Solomon, whom Mr. Trump has designated as one of his representatives to interact with the National Archives, read a statement from the former president’s office claiming that Mr. Trump had a “standing order” that documents taken out of the Oval Office and brought to the White House residence “were deemed to be declassified the moment he removed them.”
This is one of many news reports that show ignorance of the classification and declassification process.

A document has no inherent classification and can’t be declassified. A document’s classification depends on the facts it contains.

The higher an official is, the more leeway he has in following the rules for handling classified material. So it’s plausible that Trump was permitted to remove SCI documents from a SCIF to read in his residence. But the documents didn’t magically become unclassified when he removed them.
Officials with even more knowledge of security rules agree with me, using the same words in fact.

Despite Trump's claims, experts say there's no 'magic wand' for a president to declassify documents

(When Scooter Libby told a reporter about Iraqi WMD, Dick Cheney defended him, saying he had President Bush's permission. Unlike Trump, the Bush administration followed the established process to release the information. However, Libby didn't have permission to expose Valerie Plame, which put her foreign sources in danger. Those who laud the Bushes and Cheneys for standing up to Trump ought to remember they wielded power to the fullest extent they could, just more subtly.)

Thoughts on the Mar-a-Lago Search and the President’s Classification and Declassification Authority
Jeh Johnson wrote:Documents themselves are not classified; it is the substance of the information contained therein that is classified.

Part and parcel of any act of declassification is communicating that act to all others who possess the same information, across all federal agencies. This point holds true regardless of whether the information exists in a document, an email, a power point presentation, and even in a government official's mental awareness. Otherwise, what would be the point of a legitimate declassification?

In light of all this, the defense asserted by Trump's team—that while in office Trump issued "standing orders" that any "documents removed from the Oval Office and taken to the residence were deemed to be declassified the moment he removed them"—is nothing short of laughable. It's a little like saying that the speed limit on the New Jersey Turnpike is whatever speed the governor chooses to drive at in any given moment.
(The New Jersey analogy is fitting. Recall Jon Corzine's car crash, and Chris Christie sunbathing on a beach that he had ordered closed.)

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jarnon
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Re: FBI is raiding Mar-a-Lago

#100 Post by jarnon » Wed Aug 24, 2022 9:41 am

Washington Post wrote:FBI’s Mar-a-Lago search followed months of resistance, delay by Trump

Former president Donald Trump's advisers pushed back this spring against requests for the FBI to review highly classified documents sent back from Mar-a-Lago.

By Josh Dawsey, Carol D. Leonnig, Jacqueline Alemany and Rosalind S. Helderman


Donald Trump’s lawyers received ominous news in an April 12 email from the National Archives: The FBI would soon examine sensitive documents the former president had reluctantly returned to the government from his Florida club three months earlier.

The communication, which has been reviewed by The Washington Post, was a crucial pivot point in the probe of Trump’s handling of classified documents that led to the dramatic search of his Mar-a-Lago Club earlier this month.

Within weeks, Trump would have new lawyers to deal with the documents, and the FBI’s attention would shift from top-secret material Trump returned to the Archives to classified items they believed he had kept in Florida. One lawyer who received the email, former White House deputy counsel Pat Philbin, would be interviewed by FBI agents who considered him a witness in the rapidly expanding investigation.

Some of Trump’s allies have blamed the rushed and haphazard packing process during Trump’s final days in office for the presence of documents the FBI found in Trump’s bedroom, office and a first-floor storage room at Mar-a-Lago on Aug. 8. But the key events that led to the FBI search took place only this year, after months of slow-rolling conflict between the former president and law enforcement agencies.

Some material recovered in the search is considered extraordinarily sensitive, two people familiar with the search said, because it could reveal carefully guarded secrets about U.S. intelligence-gathering methods. One of them said the information is “among the most sensitive secrets we hold.”

This account of Trump’s effort to keep the FBI from reviewing the classified material is drawn from newly released correspondence and court filings, as well the recollections of multiple people with direct knowledge of the investigation or who were briefed on events. Many of them spoke on the condition of anonymity due to the ongoing criminal probe.

In a legal filing on Monday, Trump’s lawyers insisted that he had been cooperating with Justice Department requests. In fact, however, the narrative they laid out, as well as other documents and interviews, show that Trump ignored multiple opportunities to quietly resolve the FBI concerns by handing over all classified material in his possession – including a grand jury subpoena that Trump’s team accepted May 11. Again and again, he reacted with a familiar mix of obstinance and outrage, causing some in his orbit to fear he was essentially daring the FBI to come after him.

In a May 10 letter to Trump lawyer Evan Corcoran that was released Tuesday, acting archivist Debra Steidel Wall outlined weeks of resistance that followed the April 12 email. Trump tried to delay and thwart the FBI’s review of the records he had turned over to the Archives in January, Steidel Wall wrote, despite a finding by the Justice Department that the records included 100 classified documents comprising 700 pages of material, some of it extraordinarily sensitive information related to secret operations and programs with very limited access, on a need-to-know basis.

“It has now been four weeks since we first informed you of our intent to provide the FBI access to the boxes so that it and others in the Intelligence Community can conduct their reviews,” Steidel Wall wrote, adding that Trump’s lawyers had asked for more time to determine if the records included documents they considered protected by executive privilege.

The May 10 letter said government lawyers had concluded that executive privilege is held by the current president, not a former one, and that President Joe Biden had delegated to Steidel Wall the decision as to whether the FBI should be allowed to view the records. “I have therefore decided not to honor the former President’s ‘protective’ claim of privilege,” she wrote, indicating she would allow the FBI to begin viewing the records in two days. Before it was released publicly, the letter was published by John Solomon, a Trump ally who runs a news website.

In Trump’s inner circle, concern has been rising since June that the former president has created legal jeopardy for himself, according to multiple people in his orbit. “Mar-a-Lago is a big problem,” one of the people said.

Trump spokesman Taylor Budowich did not respond to specific questions for this article. In an email, he said Trump “will defeat this massive abuse of government just like every one before by exposing the lies and championing the truth.”

PROTECTING PRESIDENTIAL RECORDS

Under the Presidential Records Act, a 1970s-era statute passed in the wake of the abuses of Richard Nixon’s White House, documents prepared for the president are considered public property, overseen by the National Archives after a president leaves office.

After Trump’s term ended in January 2021, Archives officials identified various high-profile items that had not been sent to their collection and requested they be located and turned over. What followed was a tortured standoff among Trump; some of his own advisers, who urged the return of documents; and the bureaucrats charged by the law with maintaining and protecting presidential records. Trump only agreed to return some of the documents after a National Archives official asked a Trump adviser for help, saying they may have to soon refer the matter to Congress or the Justice Department.

Nearly a year later, on Jan. 17, 2022, Trump returned 15 boxes of newspaper clips, presidential briefing papers, handwritten notes and assorted mementos to the National Archives. That was supposed to settle the issue.

Instead, when Archives employees began opening up and sifting through the material, they noticed an immediate problem. The boxes arrived without any kind of logs or inventories to describe their content, according to person familiar with the recovery. Instead, they contained a hodgepodge of documents, including some that didn’t even come from Trump’s time in the White House.

But some of the White House records had obvious markings indicating they were classified.

By early February, the Archives had referred the matter to the FBI. Congressional Democrats also learned of the issue and vowed to investigate. People close to Trump say he was livid, particularly at pledges from House Oversight and Reform Committee Chairwoman Carolyn B. Maloney, D-N.Y., to probe the issue.

It could not be determined who was involved with packing the boxes at Mar-a-Lago or why some White House documents were not sent to the Archives, though people familiar with the episode said Trump oversaw the process himself – and did so with great secrecy, declining to show some items even to top aides. Philbin and another adviser who was contacted by the Archives in April have told others that they had not been involved with the process and were surprised by the discovery of classified records.

As it began its investigation in February and March, the FBI interviewed several Archives officials about the returned classified documents and their interactions with Trump’s team, people familiar with the investigation said.

By April, the FBI was ready to come look at the documents. Under the terms of the Presidential Records Act, the formal request for such a review had to come from the current president – meaning officials in Biden’s White House. And Trump was required to be allowed to review the same documents.

On April 12, an Archives official emailed Philbin and John Eisenberg, another former deputy White House counsel, to tell them the Justice Department, via the Biden White House, had made the request. The email offered the lawyers the opportunity to view the documents as well, but said the documents were too sensitive to be removed from the agency’s secure facility.

A Trump official with proper national security clearance would have to travel to the Archives facility in Maryland to read them.

Both Philbin and Eisenberg had the clearances that would allow them to make the trip. Trump allies tried to get Philbin, and then Eisenberg, to agree to do so, a person familiar with the record dispute said. But neither man had been involved with the original packing of the documents. Nor did they know what had gone into the boxes. Eager not to become more involved in the investigation, they begged off, this person said. The FBI sought to interview Philbin about Trump’s handling of classified material, making him a potential witness in the probe.

Both Philbin and Eisenberg declined to comment on Tuesday.

Once their involvement ended, Archives officials appear to have begun corresponding with Corcoran, a former assistant U.S. attorney who was representing former Trump adviser Steve Bannon in a separate criminal case. Corcoran agreed to join Trump’s team in April. According to Steidel Wall’s letter, he sent a series of requests to the Archives this spring asking the agency to delay giving the FBI access.

Corcoran did not respond to requests for comment. One person with direct knowledge of his interaction with Trump said the former president offered Corcoran the job without ever meeting him, after being introduced by another Trump adviser during a conference call with lawyers and aides.

“There was no vetting done by the president,” the person said of Corcoran, adding that other lawyers had declined the job already. “The president got on the call, asked him his name, and if he wanted to do this work, and he said yes.”

By May 10, Trump’s team still had not reviewed the documents, and Steidel Wall was ready to move ahead, telling Trump’s representatives that the government had given them nearly a month. She said Biden had left up to her the decision of whether executive privilege should apply.

“The question in this case is not a close one,” Steidel Wall wrote. “The Executive Branch here is seeking access to records belonging to, and in the custody of, the Federal Government itself, not only in order to investigate whether those records were handled in an unlawful manner but also, as the National Security Division explained, to ‘conduct an assessment of the potential damage resulting from the apparent manner in which these materials were stored and transported and take any necessary remedial steps.’ ”

As the fight with the Archives came to an uneasy conclusion, the FBI proceeded with interviews with others in Trump’s orbit, including valets and former White House staffers, people familiar with the interviews said.

Agents were told that Trump was a pack rat who had been personally overseeing his collection of White House records since even before leaving Washington and had been reluctant to return anything. The FBI became increasingly convinced that the former president continued to hold classified documents in Florida, people familiar with the investigation said.

A day after Steidel Wall’s letter to Corcoran, Trump’s lawyer accepted a grand jury subpoena seeking any records with classified markings at Mar-a-Lago.

Lawyers for Trump described the subpoena in their court filing on Monday, which claimed the FBI search was overbroad and unfair. They wrote that in response to the subpoena, Trump directed that “a search for documents bearing classification markings should be conducted – even if the marked documents had been declassified.”

Trump’s lawyers do not appear to have argued to Steidel Wall that Trump had declassified the documents that bore classified markings before he left office. While presidents have widespread authority to declassify documents, there is a process for doing so, and even declassified documents are required by the Presidential Records Act to remain in Archives custody.

Christina Bobb, a lawyer for Trump, has said that Corcoran led the review of documents held at Mar-a-Lago after Trump’s team received the May 14 subpoena.

On June 3, Bobb and Corcoran met with a senior Justice Department official and three FBI agents, turning over the records they had gathered. “We turned over everything that we found,” Bobb told Fox News host Laura Ingraham earlier this month.

Around that time, Corcoran and Bobb together provided the Justice Department with a written assurance about Trump having returned classified materials, a person familiar with the matter said. The person did not provide the specific wording of the letter, which was signed by Bobb, as first reported by the New York Times.

A person familiar with the matter said the document is of interest to the FBI, which is investigating the veracity of its claims.

Trump’s lawyers said in their court filing that following the June 3 meeting, the FBI conducted another round of interviews with personal and household staff to Trump.

On June 22, the Justice Department handed a new subpoena to the Trump Organization, which owns Mar-a-Lago. The subpoena sought surveillance video to help show who might have been coming and going from the storage area where Corcoran and Bobb had indicated boxes of records taken from the White House were being stored.

The footage showed various people entering and leaving the room, according to a person with direct knowledge of it.

Just under seven weeks later, the FBI moved in.

The Washington Post’s Devlin Barrett, Ellen Nakashima and Perry Stein contributed to this report.

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