Real World Consequences of Anti-LBGTQ School Legislation

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Real World Consequences of Anti-LBGTQ School Legislation

#1 Post by kroxquo » Sat Jul 23, 2022 7:50 am

The 2022 Kentucky Teacher of the Year is leaving public education because of anti-LBGTQ bias. Here is his testimony before Congress (transcript follows):



" Testimony of Willie Carver
Before the Subcommittee on Civil Rights and Civil Liberties
U.S. House of Representatives
May 18, 2022

***
Chairman Raskin, Ranking Member Mace, and members of the subcommittee, thank you for the opportunity to offer this written testimony on such an important issue.

My name is Willie Carver. I am a seventeen-year teaching veteran with a double endorsed MAT, a Rank 1 in French linguistics. I’ve worked at Montgomery County Schools since 2013. I sponsor multiple school groups, and am a published member of National Council of Teachers of English, the Kentucky World Language Association, the American Federation of Teachers, the Kentucky Philological Association, the Center for Collaborative Center for Literacy Development, as well as a contributing and active member of the Kentucky and National Education Association and the Kentucky Adolescent Literacy Project. I am a recipient of two Praxis Awards of Excellence, a Kendall Smith Kentucky Star Awards recipient, a 2021 University of Kentucky Teacher who Made a Difference, and I am the 2022 Kentucky Teacher of the Year.

When I was a kid in school, I used to teach my sister what I learned every day. She started kindergarten ready for first grade and to this day is still smarter than me. I was born to teach, and I’m good at it. I represent 42,000 Kentucky teachers as the 2022 Kentucky Teacher of the Year because I transform students’ thinking, abilities, and lives.

I’ve faced hatred, bigotry, and discrimination my whole career as a gay teacher, and I’ve weathered the storm because my presence saves lives. According to the Trevor Project, 40% of trans people have attempted suicide at some point in their lives, and a heartbreaking 92% of them attempted suicide before turning 25. The Trevor Project also reports that just one affirming adult reduces LGBTQ suicide attempts by 40%.

Research on the impact of LGBTQ role models is hardly new. Research from the Journal of Adolescent Health from 2012 already indicated that having positive role models decreases the psychological distress of LGBTQ youth.

Schools have always been a major means of access to positive role models and behaviors. According to research published in Children and Youth Services Review, seeing teachers intervene in bullying against marginalized students increases the students’ likelihood to intervene themselves. Teachers are role models of inclusion of others and ourselves. Students need positive role models in their lives to be able to project an image of themselves into the future.

The need is immediate and the stakes are dire. Schools are dangerous places for LGBTQ students. According to the GLSEN 2019 Climate Survey, 59% of LGBTQ students feel unsafe at school because of their orientation, 69% are harassed because of their orientation, and 95% hear anti-LGBTQ slurs daily. Sadly, according to research by Mcdermott et al, those same LGBTQ students experiencing these conditions are 400% more likely to commit suicide than their nonLGBTQ classmates.

These numbers are almost five years old. As shocking as they are, they’ve gotten much worse in the wake of the current political attacks against LGBTQ youth.

As of this writing, over 300 bills have been introduced to limit or attack conversations or rights of youth who are Black, brown, or LGBTQ. There are bills, mandates, or new interpretations of existing policies, like those in Texas and Tennessee, that would prevent trans youth from getting affirming medical care, despite the fact that every major medical association agrees that affirming care prevents suicide. There are bills preventing trans students from playing sports, despite the fact that all research shows that inclusion is the best prevention of suicide among LGBTQ youth.

Perhaps most egregious, there are bills that limit conversations about the lived experiences of students. New, confusing, ambiguous anti-critical race theory (CRT) laws all but ban discussions about the lived experience of Black and brown students in classrooms. They do so either directly or by being unclear and leveraging disproportionately costly consequences against teachers and schools. As a result, little will be read by Black or brown authors or about Black or brown people. They protect themselves at the cost of their students’ dignity and mental health.

The same choice teachers are making to protect themselves while harming students can be most clearly seen in the bills preventing discussion or inclusion of LGBTQ people in classroom settings. They require erasure. Florida’s infamous House Bill 1557 will prevent any and all inclusion of LGBTQ people in grades K-3 and, by virtue of the ambiguity of the “age-appropriate” label for older students, will equally erase us in the rest of students’ school experiences. Emboldened by the passing of this bill, other states are following suit, with Louisiana’s resurrection of House Bill 837 making lessons on LGBTQ identity in K-8 illegal and forbidding teachers from discussing their identity in any grade.

Identity is rarely discussed by direct means. No teachers come out as straight. They are married to opposite sex spouses whose pictures sit on their desks or whose names come up in stories about vacations or weekend trips to the grocery store. LGBTQ teachers and students will not be afforded this freedom. They will be required to deny their existence and edit the most basic aspects of their stories, unlike their classmates and colleagues. Few LGBTQ teachers will survive this current storm. Politicizing our existence has already darkened our schools.

I’m made invisible. When we lost our textbooks during lockdown, I co-wrote two free textbooks with a university professor, made them free to anyone who wanted them, and found sponsors to print them. I wasn’t allowed to share them at my school. Other schools in Kentucky celebrate similar work by teachers, but my name is a liability.

I’m from the small town of Mt. Sterling, KY and I was invited to meet the President of the United States. It was not advertised to my students and colleagues. My school didn’t even mention it in an email or morning announcement.

This invisibility extends to all newly politicized identities. Our administrators’ new directive about books and lessons is “nothing racial.”

We all know how to interpret this.

Works by white people living lives as white people are never called racial.

Works by Black and brown people living lives as Black and brown people are always called racial.

The politicization of identity erases their identities.

Parents now demand alternative assignments when authors of texts or materials are Black or LGBTQ; we teachers are told to accommodate them, but I cannot ethically erase Black or queer voices.

We ban materials by marginalized authors, ignoring official processes. One parent complaint removes all students’ books overnight.

My Gay Straight Alliance (GSA), a campus group dedicated to discussing and helping make schools safe for LGBTQ students, couldn’t share an optional campus climate survey with classmates. I was told it might make straight students uncomfortable.

Students now use anti-LGBTQ or racist slurs without consequence. Hatred is politically protected now.

When my GSA’s posters were torn from walls, my principal’s response was that people think LGBTQ advocacy is “being shoved down their throats.”

Inclusive teachers are thrown under the bus by the people driving it.

During a national teacher shortage crisis, I know gay educators with perfect records dismissed this year.

A Kentucky teacher’s whiteboard message of “You are free to be yourself with me. You matter” with pride flags resulted in wild accusations and violent threats. During this madness, his superintendent wrote to a parent, “This incident … is unacceptable and will not be tolerated.” The situation became unimaginably unsafe. He resigned.

Last month, a parent’s dangerous, false allegations that my GSA was “grooming” students were shared 65 times on Facebook. I felt my students and I were unsafe. Multiple parents and I asked the school to defend us. One father wrote simply, “Please do something!” The school refused to support us.

There are 10,000 people in my town; one fringe parent doesn’t represent most parents, who trust us.

School is traumatic; LGBTQ students are trying to survive it. They often don’t. Year after year, I receive suicidal goodbye texts from students at night. We’ve always saved them, but now I panic when my phone goes off after 10:00.

Meryl, a gentle trans girl from Owen County High, took her life in 2020. She always wanted a GSA. Her friends tried to establish one, but the teachers who wanted to help were afraid to sponsor it. Meryl’s mother Rachelle runs an unofficial GSA, PRISM, from the local library.

45% of LGBTQ youth seriously considered suicide this year. We chip away at their dignity and spaces to exist. The systems meant to protect them won’t even acknowledge them.

I recently attended Becky Oglesby’s TED Talk. She described surviving a tornado with first graders, how they huddled, her arms around them, as their school walls lifted into the darkness. I sobbed uncontrollably. I realized that for fifteen years, I have huddled around students, protecting them from the winds, and now the tornado’s here. As the walls rip away, I feel I’m abandoning them.

But I’m tired. I’ve been fighting since my first day in a classroom. Fighting for kids to feel human. Fighting for kids to be safe. Fighting to stop the fear by changing hearts and minds.

I’m tired. I don’t know how much longer I can do it.

I need you. We need you. To be brave enough to face the storm with us.

Congress needs to act

We need you to remember that strong public schools are an issue of national security and moral urgency, and political attacks are exacerbating the teacher shortage, harming our democracy, and, above all, hurting our children.

We need you to pass the Equality Act, to make discrimination against LGBTQ people illegal.

We need you to pass the Safe Schools Improvement Act, to protect all students from harassment.

We’re not asking for special treatment. We’re asking for fundamental human decency, dignity, freedom from fear, and the same opportunity to thrive non-marginalized students and teachers enjoy.
You live and learn. Or at least you live. - Douglas Adams

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Re: Real World Consequences of Anti-LBGTQ School Legislation

#2 Post by flockofseagulls104 » Sat Jul 23, 2022 10:54 am

Just for the sake of discussion.

I don't know this guy or his circumstances. I would just speculate.

Perhaps the 'hatred, bigotry, and discrimination' he perceives could be due to his seemingly obvious in-your-face political activism rather than the fact that he is gay.

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Re: Real World Consequences of Anti-LBGTQ School Legislation

#3 Post by silverscreenselect » Sat Jul 23, 2022 12:13 pm

flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Sat Jul 23, 2022 10:54 am
Perhaps the 'hatred, bigotry, and discrimination' he perceives could be due to his seemingly obvious in-your-face political activism rather than the fact that he is gay.
"In-your-face political activism" means openly acknowledging that he is gay instead of hiding in the closet.
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Re: Real World Consequences of Anti-LBGTQ School Legislation

#4 Post by BackInTex » Sat Jul 23, 2022 12:26 pm

If Teacher of the Year qualifications are similar to the recent Women of the Year nominations and awards he doesn’t really need to be much of a teacher, just to think he is.

I wouldn’t want this guy teaching or being an influence in my child's life anyway. Sounds like he has more of an agenda for the kids than just academics. So “meh”.
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Re: Real World Consequences of Anti-LBGTQ School Legislation

#5 Post by silverscreenselect » Sat Jul 23, 2022 1:03 pm

BackInTex wrote:
Sat Jul 23, 2022 12:26 pm
If Teacher of the Year qualifications are similar to the recent Women of the Year nominations and awards he doesn’t really need to be much of a teacher, just to think he is. I wouldn’t want this guy teaching or being an influence in my child's life anyway. Sounds like he has more of an agenda for the kids than just academics. So “meh”.
Here's an article written in the Kentucky Department of Education newsmagazine in September 2021, after Carver was named teacher of the year. It talks about his experience and background. Here's where he discusses his philosophy about teaching:
As an educator, he often questions what is working to ensure the continuous growth of his students. Additionally, whether he’s teaching English or French, he always tries to connect his lessons to how students can apply them in the real world. “I know sometimes the students feel a disconnect,” he said. “It’s really important that students have a voice. Even if it’s grammar exercises, I also make sure that students have a way to talk about what they think and how they see the world.”

A few years ago, Carver asked one of his classes on the first day of school, “What is English about and why are we even in this class?” A student replied, “Knowing how to use a comma doesn’t take a needle out of my mother’s arm.” “I think about that any time I’m trying to organize an assignment,” Carver said. “Before we even talk about commas, let’s imagine the cover letters they’re going to be writing. Let’s imagine the articles you might be writing. Let’s imagine what your future could look like and let’s prepare for that.”

Another way Carver has been able to connect with his students is through the formation of Happy Club, a student-led group that focuses on making the school a better place. “Nothing excites me more than student initiative,” he said. “So I approached them, helping them develop ideas as we talked.” Twenty-seven students showed up at Carver’s classroom in 2017 for the inaugural Happy Club meeting. The club outgrew his classroom, however, as membership quickly reached 40 students. The club met weekly and had ambitious projects, Carver said. Students distributed random messages at lunch, including recipes for biscuits, vocabulary words and facts about kangaroos. They gave out baskets for students to put extra breakfast food in for their hungry classmates and created a Post-It wall with affirmations. Students would sing songs and even send thank you notes to their teachers. “The Happy Club had an impact,” Carver said. “The school literally became a lighter, less serious place.” The most joyous aspect of the club for Carver has been witnessing a group of students, who otherwise would not have a club to go to, dance, sing and be silly and creative together. It was inspiration and fuel for him as a teacher, he said.

A year after its formation, Happy Club created a second club called Open Light, the county’s first inclusion club and outwardly LGBT-affirming club, Carver said.
“I can’t take credit for what my students themselves do,” he said. “But I can say that my goal is always to tell them that their dreams are never too big, and I remind them that the time to realize those dreams is now.”

Carver said the 2022 Kentucky Teacher of the Year award is his way of thanking all the teachers who supported him throughout his education journey.
“From the 5th-grade teachers who gave me food when I was hungry to the 4th-grade teachers who told me I could do anything to the kindergarten teachers who sat with me after school when I missed my bus,” he said. “All of these wonderful, hardworking people who are effectively the structural backbone of all of our communities who don’t get seen, it’s confirmation that everything they said was right. That where I come from, who I am, none of these things have any bearing on what I’m capable of.”

It now is Carver’s mission to take those lessons and pass them along to the students he has today as he works to shift their perceptions of themselves. “Students see themselves as a kid from Floyd County or a kid from Montgomery County sitting in French class,” he said. “I want them to see themselves as someone who can do anything. That doesn’t mean they need to leave or go anyplace; it means that they need to experience life and believe that they are worthy of it.”
https://www.kentuckyteacher.org/feature ... -students/

He sounds exactly like the type of teacher I'd want in one of my children's classes.
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Re: Real World Consequences of Anti-LBGTQ School Legislation

#6 Post by Bob78164 » Sat Jul 23, 2022 4:39 pm

silverscreenselect wrote:
Sat Jul 23, 2022 1:03 pm
BackInTex wrote:
Sat Jul 23, 2022 12:26 pm
If Teacher of the Year qualifications are similar to the recent Women of the Year nominations and awards he doesn’t really need to be much of a teacher, just to think he is. I wouldn’t want this guy teaching or being an influence in my child's life anyway. Sounds like he has more of an agenda for the kids than just academics. So “meh”.
Here's an article written in the Kentucky Department of Education newsmagazine in September 2021, after Carver was named teacher of the year. It talks about his experience and background. Here's where he discusses his philosophy about teaching:
As an educator, he often questions what is working to ensure the continuous growth of his students. Additionally, whether he’s teaching English or French, he always tries to connect his lessons to how students can apply them in the real world. “I know sometimes the students feel a disconnect,” he said. “It’s really important that students have a voice. Even if it’s grammar exercises, I also make sure that students have a way to talk about what they think and how they see the world.”

A few years ago, Carver asked one of his classes on the first day of school, “What is English about and why are we even in this class?” A student replied, “Knowing how to use a comma doesn’t take a needle out of my mother’s arm.” “I think about that any time I’m trying to organize an assignment,” Carver said. “Before we even talk about commas, let’s imagine the cover letters they’re going to be writing. Let’s imagine the articles you might be writing. Let’s imagine what your future could look like and let’s prepare for that.”

Another way Carver has been able to connect with his students is through the formation of Happy Club, a student-led group that focuses on making the school a better place. “Nothing excites me more than student initiative,” he said. “So I approached them, helping them develop ideas as we talked.” Twenty-seven students showed up at Carver’s classroom in 2017 for the inaugural Happy Club meeting. The club outgrew his classroom, however, as membership quickly reached 40 students. The club met weekly and had ambitious projects, Carver said. Students distributed random messages at lunch, including recipes for biscuits, vocabulary words and facts about kangaroos. They gave out baskets for students to put extra breakfast food in for their hungry classmates and created a Post-It wall with affirmations. Students would sing songs and even send thank you notes to their teachers. “The Happy Club had an impact,” Carver said. “The school literally became a lighter, less serious place.” The most joyous aspect of the club for Carver has been witnessing a group of students, who otherwise would not have a club to go to, dance, sing and be silly and creative together. It was inspiration and fuel for him as a teacher, he said.

A year after its formation, Happy Club created a second club called Open Light, the county’s first inclusion club and outwardly LGBT-affirming club, Carver said.
“I can’t take credit for what my students themselves do,” he said. “But I can say that my goal is always to tell them that their dreams are never too big, and I remind them that the time to realize those dreams is now.”

Carver said the 2022 Kentucky Teacher of the Year award is his way of thanking all the teachers who supported him throughout his education journey.
“From the 5th-grade teachers who gave me food when I was hungry to the 4th-grade teachers who told me I could do anything to the kindergarten teachers who sat with me after school when I missed my bus,” he said. “All of these wonderful, hardworking people who are effectively the structural backbone of all of our communities who don’t get seen, it’s confirmation that everything they said was right. That where I come from, who I am, none of these things have any bearing on what I’m capable of.”

It now is Carver’s mission to take those lessons and pass them along to the students he has today as he works to shift their perceptions of themselves. “Students see themselves as a kid from Floyd County or a kid from Montgomery County sitting in French class,” he said. “I want them to see themselves as someone who can do anything. That doesn’t mean they need to leave or go anyplace; it means that they need to experience life and believe that they are worthy of it.”
https://www.kentuckyteacher.org/feature ... -students/

He sounds exactly like the type of teacher I'd want in one of my children's classes.
You’ve missed the point. BiT doesn’t want him teaching his kids BECAUSE he’s gay and unwilling to live in the closet. Just like a depressingly large fraction of the Republican Party. And it’s the fraction that’s captured the Party, so you can expect Republican elected officials to continue to cater to them to avoid getting primaried until catering to the crazies starts causing them to lose general elections. Given the gerrymandering we’re stuck with, that won’t happen until a bunch of Republican voters start considering these views unacceptable and start voting for Democrats. —Bob
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Re: Real World Consequences of Anti-LBGTQ School Legislation

#7 Post by Beebs52 » Sat Jul 23, 2022 5:03 pm

I don't care if a teacher is gay. What does that make me?

I also don't need to know if someone is asexual, pansexual or whatever sexual in a schoolroom.
Well, then

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Re: Real World Consequences of Anti-LBGTQ School Legislation

#8 Post by Beebs52 » Sat Jul 23, 2022 5:23 pm

Plus, there are many other problems kids are dealing with as adolescents. What about them?
Well, then

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Re: Real World Consequences of Anti-LBGTQ School Legislation

#9 Post by kroxquo » Sat Jul 23, 2022 8:46 pm

Beebs52 wrote:
Sat Jul 23, 2022 5:23 pm
Plus, there are many other problems kids are dealing with as adolescents. What about them?
So if we can't address all the problems, we shouldn't address any of them?
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Re: Real World Consequences of Anti-LBGTQ School Legislation

#10 Post by kroxquo » Sat Jul 23, 2022 8:50 pm

flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Sat Jul 23, 2022 10:54 am
Just for the sake of discussion.

I don't know this guy or his circumstances. I would just speculate.

Perhaps the 'hatred, bigotry, and discrimination' he perceives could be due to his seemingly obvious in-your-face political activism rather than the fact that he is gay.

Hate mail to follow.....
Just for the sake of discussion.

From the testimony, what would you consider to be "in-your-face activism"?

I don't think advocating for equal treatment of all people is unreasonable.
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Re: Real World Consequences of Anti-LBGTQ School Legislation

#11 Post by kroxquo » Sat Jul 23, 2022 8:55 pm

BackInTex wrote:
Sat Jul 23, 2022 12:26 pm
If Teacher of the Year qualifications are similar to the recent Women of the Year nominations and awards he doesn’t really need to be much of a teacher, just to think he is.

I wouldn’t want this guy teaching or being an influence in my child's life anyway. Sounds like he has more of an agenda for the kids than just academics. So “meh”.
At least in North Carolina where I teach, Teacher of the Year Awards are voted by their peers and represent the best of the best.

And you are correct that he has an agenda for the kids that is about more than academics. His agenda is making them feel safe, welcomed, accepted for who they are, and loved. If that is not what you would want in a teacher for your child, then truly I pity your child.
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Re: Real World Consequences of Anti-LBGTQ School Legislation

#12 Post by Bob Juch » Sat Jul 23, 2022 11:13 pm

Beebs52 wrote:
Sat Jul 23, 2022 5:03 pm
I don't care if a teacher is gay. What does that make me?

I also don't need to know if someone is asexual, pansexual or whatever sexual in a schoolroom.
That makes you a RINO, or so say some.
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Re: Real World Consequences of Anti-LBGTQ School Legislation

#13 Post by flockofseagulls104 » Sun Jul 24, 2022 10:58 am

kroxquo wrote:
Sat Jul 23, 2022 8:50 pm
flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Sat Jul 23, 2022 10:54 am
Just for the sake of discussion.

I don't know this guy or his circumstances. I would just speculate.

Perhaps the 'hatred, bigotry, and discrimination' he perceives could be due to his seemingly obvious in-your-face political activism rather than the fact that he is gay.

Hate mail to follow.....
Just for the sake of discussion.

From the testimony, what would you consider to be "in-your-face activism"?

I don't think advocating for equal treatment of all people is unreasonable.
Two examples from this bored: My Stalker and the Above Average lawyer, who consider any opinion that differs even slightly from their own as explicit evidence of racism, homophobia or whatever the designated catch-epithet of the moment happens to be.

Here are some apparently common examples of in-your-face activism on display at the Turning Point USA conference just yesterday.

https://twitter.com/i/status/1550858018383863810

https://twitter.com/i/status/1550858860155609090

If this teacher of the year would stand there and listen and applaud these people, he should NOT be teaching children, IMO.

I have no doubt that if either of these two radical extremists were to write 'testimony' for the same purpose that this teacher of the year did, it would be of the same cleaned up tone.

Nobody cares if you are gay, trans, black, white, green or whatever. All the 'leaders' of all these disparate groups all come down to the same thing. What these two assholes are spreading.

All I am saying is that POSSIBLY the 'discrimination' this teacher of the year felt he was experiencing came in response to his political activism rather than his sexual preferences. I, personally, couldn't care less that he is gay. But if he let his political narrative affect his personal interactions, and more importantly, his interactions with the children he is entrusted with, I would judge him by that.
Your friendly neighborhood racist. On the waiting list to be a nazi. Designated an honorary 'snowflake'. Trolled by the very best, as well as by BJ. Always typical, unlike others.., Fulminator, Hopelessly in the tank for trump... inappropriate... Flocking himself... Probably a tucking sexist, too... All thought comes from the right wing noise machine(TM)... A clear and present threat to The Future Of Our Democracy.. Doesn't understand anything... Made the trump apologist and enabler playoffs... Heathen bastard... Knows nothing about history... Liar.... don't know much about statistics and polling... Nothing at all about biology... Ignorant Bigot... Potential Future Pariah... Big Nerd... Spiraling

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Re: Real World Consequences of Anti-LBGTQ School Legislation

#14 Post by kroxquo » Sun Jul 24, 2022 3:29 pm

flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Sun Jul 24, 2022 10:58 am
kroxquo wrote:
Sat Jul 23, 2022 8:50 pm
flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Sat Jul 23, 2022 10:54 am
Just for the sake of discussion.

I don't know this guy or his circumstances. I would just speculate.

Perhaps the 'hatred, bigotry, and discrimination' he perceives could be due to his seemingly obvious in-your-face political activism rather than the fact that he is gay.

Hate mail to follow.....
Just for the sake of discussion.

From the testimony, what would you consider to be "in-your-face activism"?

I don't think advocating for equal treatment of all people is unreasonable.
Two examples from this bored: My Stalker and the Above Average lawyer, who consider any opinion that differs even slightly from their own as explicit evidence of racism, homophobia or whatever the designated catch-epithet of the moment happens to be.

Here are some apparently common examples of in-your-face activism on display at the Turning Point USA conference just yesterday.

https://twitter.com/i/status/1550858018383863810

https://twitter.com/i/status/1550858860155609090

If this teacher of the year would stand there and listen and applaud these people, he should NOT be teaching children, IMO.

I have no doubt that if either of these two radical extremists were to write 'testimony' for the same purpose that this teacher of the year did, it would be of the same cleaned up tone.

Nobody cares if you are gay, trans, black, white, green or whatever. All the 'leaders' of all these disparate groups all come down to the same thing. What these two assholes are spreading.

All I am saying is that POSSIBLY the 'discrimination' this teacher of the year felt he was experiencing came in response to his political activism rather than his sexual preferences. I, personally, couldn't care less that he is gay. But if he let his political narrative affect his personal interactions, and more importantly, his interactions with the children he is entrusted with, I would judge him by that.
But you referred to HIS "in-your-face activism." You also conceded that you "don't know this guy or his circumstances." And yet you assign the most radical beliefs and actions to him. There is nothing in HIS testimony to indicate that. He is calling for acceptance and tolerance for himself and for his students. What in the world is wrong with that?
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Re: Real World Consequences of Anti-LBGTQ School Legislation

#15 Post by Beebs52 » Sun Jul 24, 2022 3:34 pm

Bob Juch wrote:
Sat Jul 23, 2022 11:13 pm
Beebs52 wrote:
Sat Jul 23, 2022 5:03 pm
I don't care if a teacher is gay. What does that make me?

I also don't need to know if someone is asexual, pansexual or whatever sexual in a schoolroom.
That makes you a RINO, or so say some.
True dat. Your ownership of guns makes you a DINO then? 😀
Well, then

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Re: Real World Consequences of Anti-LBGTQ School Legislation

#16 Post by Beebs52 » Sun Jul 24, 2022 3:36 pm

kroxquo wrote:
Sat Jul 23, 2022 8:46 pm
Beebs52 wrote:
Sat Jul 23, 2022 5:23 pm
Plus, there are many other problems kids are dealing with as adolescents. What about them?
So if we can't address all the problems, we shouldn't address any of them?
Not at all. But cause du jour morphs year to year.
Well, then

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Re: Real World Consequences of Anti-LBGTQ School Legislation

#17 Post by flockofseagulls104 » Sun Jul 24, 2022 4:50 pm

kroxquo wrote:
Sun Jul 24, 2022 3:29 pm
flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Sun Jul 24, 2022 10:58 am
kroxquo wrote:
Sat Jul 23, 2022 8:50 pm

Just for the sake of discussion.

From the testimony, what would you consider to be "in-your-face activism"?

I don't think advocating for equal treatment of all people is unreasonable.
Two examples from this bored: My Stalker and the Above Average lawyer, who consider any opinion that differs even slightly from their own as explicit evidence of racism, homophobia or whatever the designated catch-epithet of the moment happens to be.

Here are some apparently common examples of in-your-face activism on display at the Turning Point USA conference just yesterday.

https://twitter.com/i/status/1550858018383863810

https://twitter.com/i/status/1550858860155609090

If this teacher of the year would stand there and listen and applaud these people, he should NOT be teaching children, IMO.

I have no doubt that if either of these two radical extremists were to write 'testimony' for the same purpose that this teacher of the year did, it would be of the same cleaned up tone.

Nobody cares if you are gay, trans, black, white, green or whatever. All the 'leaders' of all these disparate groups all come down to the same thing. What these two assholes are spreading.

All I am saying is that POSSIBLY the 'discrimination' this teacher of the year felt he was experiencing came in response to his political activism rather than his sexual preferences. I, personally, couldn't care less that he is gay. But if he let his political narrative affect his personal interactions, and more importantly, his interactions with the children he is entrusted with, I would judge him by that.
But you referred to HIS "in-your-face activism." You also conceded that you "don't know this guy or his circumstances." And yet you assign the most radical beliefs and actions to him. There is nothing in HIS testimony to indicate that. He is calling for acceptance and tolerance for himself and for his students. What in the world is wrong with that?
Look, krox, I have said everything I'm gonna say, and I can't help if you can't fully comprehend the gist of what I have said. You are apparently taking it to another level based on your implicit bias, taking it subjectively when I've tried to address it objectively. My suspicion is that you don't want to think about it objectively. It goes against the narrative you've subscribed yourself to.
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Re: Real World Consequences of Anti-LBGTQ School Legislation

#18 Post by Bob Juch » Sun Jul 24, 2022 5:17 pm

Beebs52 wrote:
Sun Jul 24, 2022 3:34 pm
Bob Juch wrote:
Sat Jul 23, 2022 11:13 pm
Beebs52 wrote:
Sat Jul 23, 2022 5:03 pm
I don't care if a teacher is gay. What does that make me?

I also don't need to know if someone is asexual, pansexual or whatever sexual in a schoolroom.
That makes you a RINO, or so say some.
True dat. Your ownership of guns makes you a DINO then? 😀
No, the Democratic Party is not in favor of ending gun ownership. They want to restrict who can buy them.
I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I needed to be.
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Si fractum non sit, noli id reficere.

Teach a child to be polite and courteous in the home and, when he grows up, he'll never be able to drive in New Jersey.

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Re: Real World Consequences of Anti-LBGTQ School Legislation

#19 Post by flockofseagulls104 » Sun Jul 24, 2022 5:23 pm

Bob Juch wrote:
Sun Jul 24, 2022 5:17 pm
Beebs52 wrote:
Sun Jul 24, 2022 3:34 pm
Bob Juch wrote:
Sat Jul 23, 2022 11:13 pm


That makes you a RINO, or so say some.
True dat. Your ownership of guns makes you a DINO then? 😀
No, the Democratic Party is not in favor of ending gun ownership. They want to restrict who can buy them.
And the major question, which is way above your comprehension level, is: What would the effect be if the Democrats got what they wanted?
Your friendly neighborhood racist. On the waiting list to be a nazi. Designated an honorary 'snowflake'. Trolled by the very best, as well as by BJ. Always typical, unlike others.., Fulminator, Hopelessly in the tank for trump... inappropriate... Flocking himself... Probably a tucking sexist, too... All thought comes from the right wing noise machine(TM)... A clear and present threat to The Future Of Our Democracy.. Doesn't understand anything... Made the trump apologist and enabler playoffs... Heathen bastard... Knows nothing about history... Liar.... don't know much about statistics and polling... Nothing at all about biology... Ignorant Bigot... Potential Future Pariah... Big Nerd... Spiraling

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Re: Real World Consequences of Anti-LBGTQ School Legislation

#20 Post by kroxquo » Sun Jul 24, 2022 5:23 pm

flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Sun Jul 24, 2022 4:50 pm
kroxquo wrote:
Sun Jul 24, 2022 3:29 pm
flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Sun Jul 24, 2022 10:58 am


Two examples from this bored: My Stalker and the Above Average lawyer, who consider any opinion that differs even slightly from their own as explicit evidence of racism, homophobia or whatever the designated catch-epithet of the moment happens to be.

Here are some apparently common examples of in-your-face activism on display at the Turning Point USA conference just yesterday.

https://twitter.com/i/status/1550858018383863810

https://twitter.com/i/status/1550858860155609090

If this teacher of the year would stand there and listen and applaud these people, he should NOT be teaching children, IMO.

I have no doubt that if either of these two radical extremists were to write 'testimony' for the same purpose that this teacher of the year did, it would be of the same cleaned up tone.

Nobody cares if you are gay, trans, black, white, green or whatever. All the 'leaders' of all these disparate groups all come down to the same thing. What these two assholes are spreading.

All I am saying is that POSSIBLY the 'discrimination' this teacher of the year felt he was experiencing came in response to his political activism rather than his sexual preferences. I, personally, couldn't care less that he is gay. But if he let his political narrative affect his personal interactions, and more importantly, his interactions with the children he is entrusted with, I would judge him by that.
But you referred to HIS "in-your-face activism." You also conceded that you "don't know this guy or his circumstances." And yet you assign the most radical beliefs and actions to him. There is nothing in HIS testimony to indicate that. He is calling for acceptance and tolerance for himself and for his students. What in the world is wrong with that?
Look, krox, I have said everything I'm gonna say, and I can't help if you can't fully comprehend the gist of what I have said. You are apparently taking it to another level based on your implicit bias, taking it subjectively when I've tried to address it objectively. My suspicion is that you don't want to think about it objectively. It goes against the narrative you've subscribed yourself to.
But I am thinking about it objectively. My original question was what was there IN HIS TESTIMONY that would lead you to believe that he is engaged in (your words) "in-your-face activism"? Maybe I'm being obtuse, but I don't see it. If you could point me in the direction of what you are seeing that leads you to that belief then I might be able to see your point. But instead you have taken examples from videos of rallies which this man may or may not have attended and comments made by posters on this board to assign subjectively his intentions and motivations. Looking at it objectively, I think your implicit bias is also on display as is the narrative YOU have subscribed yourself to.
You live and learn. Or at least you live. - Douglas Adams

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Re: Real World Consequences of Anti-LBGTQ School Legislation

#21 Post by flockofseagulls104 » Sun Jul 24, 2022 5:27 pm

kroxquo wrote:
Sun Jul 24, 2022 5:23 pm
flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Sun Jul 24, 2022 4:50 pm
kroxquo wrote:
Sun Jul 24, 2022 3:29 pm

But you referred to HIS "in-your-face activism." You also conceded that you "don't know this guy or his circumstances." And yet you assign the most radical beliefs and actions to him. There is nothing in HIS testimony to indicate that. He is calling for acceptance and tolerance for himself and for his students. What in the world is wrong with that?
Look, krox, I have said everything I'm gonna say, and I can't help if you can't fully comprehend the gist of what I have said. You are apparently taking it to another level based on your implicit bias, taking it subjectively when I've tried to address it objectively. My suspicion is that you don't want to think about it objectively. It goes against the narrative you've subscribed yourself to.
But I am thinking about it objectively. My original question was what was there IN HIS TESTIMONY that would lead you to believe that he is engaged in (your words) "in-your-face activism"? Maybe I'm being obtuse, but I don't see it. If you could point me in the direction of what you are seeing that leads you to that belief then I might be able to see your point. But instead you have taken examples from videos of rallies which this man may or may not have attended and comments made by posters on this board to assign subjectively his intentions and motivations. Looking at it objectively, I think your implicit bias is also on display as is the narrative YOU have subscribed yourself to.
I never referred to his 'testimony', krox. That is what YOU are referring to. I merely posed an alternative supposition as to the source of his stated feelings of alienation. I don't think he said "I am a left-wing looney activist" in his 'testimony'. Do you think he would have, even if he is? If you are basing whether my supposition is correct or incorrect on that, you are engaging in rather shallow thinking.
Last edited by flockofseagulls104 on Sun Jul 24, 2022 5:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Real World Consequences of Anti-LBGTQ School Legislation

#22 Post by kroxquo » Sun Jul 24, 2022 5:29 pm

flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Sun Jul 24, 2022 5:23 pm
Bob Juch wrote:
Sun Jul 24, 2022 5:17 pm
Beebs52 wrote:
Sun Jul 24, 2022 3:34 pm

True dat. Your ownership of guns makes you a DINO then? 😀
No, the Democratic Party is not in favor of ending gun ownership. They want to restrict who can buy them.
And the major question, which is way above your comprehension level, is: What would the effect be if the Democrats got what they wanted?
A major reduction in gun violence. Major reduction of suicide and accidental death by firearms. Reduction in health care costs as fewer gun related injuries have to be treated. For starters,
You live and learn. Or at least you live. - Douglas Adams

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Re: Real World Consequences of Anti-LBGTQ School Legislation

#23 Post by silverscreenselect » Sun Jul 24, 2022 5:30 pm

flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Sun Jul 24, 2022 5:27 pm
I merely posed an alternative supposition as to the source of his stated feelings of alienation.
It's good to know that Flock has such great insight into what motivates gay people.
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Re: Real World Consequences of Anti-LBGTQ School Legislation

#24 Post by kroxquo » Sun Jul 24, 2022 5:40 pm

flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Sun Jul 24, 2022 5:27 pm
kroxquo wrote:
Sun Jul 24, 2022 5:23 pm
flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Sun Jul 24, 2022 4:50 pm

Look, krox, I have said everything I'm gonna say, and I can't help if you can't fully comprehend the gist of what I have said. You are apparently taking it to another level based on your implicit bias, taking it subjectively when I've tried to address it objectively. My suspicion is that you don't want to think about it objectively. It goes against the narrative you've subscribed yourself to.
But I am thinking about it objectively. My original question was what was there IN HIS TESTIMONY that would lead you to believe that he is engaged in (your words) "in-your-face activism"? Maybe I'm being obtuse, but I don't see it. If you could point me in the direction of what you are seeing that leads you to that belief then I might be able to see your point. But instead you have taken examples from videos of rallies which this man may or may not have attended and comments made by posters on this board to assign subjectively his intentions and motivations. Looking at it objectively, I think your implicit bias is also on display as is the narrative YOU have subscribed yourself to.
I never referred to his 'testimony', krox. That is what YOU are referring to. I merely posed an alternative supposition as to the source of his stated feelings of alienation. I don't think he said "I am a left-wing looney activist" in his 'testimony'. Do you think he would have, even if he is? If you are basing whether my supposition is correct or incorrect on that, you are engaging in rather shallow thinking.
But you are assuming facts not in evidence. Your supposition is based on this man's political activism which is not indicated in anything he stated. You may be right in stating that his alienation may come from other's reactions to his activism. But that activism is not in evidence, and without that evidence, the supposition is purely subjective. That was the point of my original question - How can you assume someone feels alienation because of his political activism when there is no evidence of said activism?
You live and learn. Or at least you live. - Douglas Adams

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Re: Real World Consequences of Anti-LBGTQ School Legislation

#25 Post by flockofseagulls104 » Sun Jul 24, 2022 5:43 pm

kroxquo wrote:
Sun Jul 24, 2022 5:29 pm
flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Sun Jul 24, 2022 5:23 pm
Bob Juch wrote:
Sun Jul 24, 2022 5:17 pm

No, the Democratic Party is not in favor of ending gun ownership. They want to restrict who can buy them.
And the major question, which is way above your comprehension level, is: What would the effect be if the Democrats got what they wanted?
A major reduction in gun violence. Major reduction of suicide and accidental death by firearms. Reduction in health care costs as fewer gun related injuries have to be treated. For starters,
On what do you base that? Do you think drug gang-related shootings are going to automatically go down? Do you think criminals are going to lack weapons if they can't buy them? Are suicides going to be reduced? (There are other ways, you know).

And, realistically, how effective have these 'common sense' laws have been where they have already been enacted? Do you REALLY think that the Federal government, which can't get anything else right, is going to suddenly become the most wonderful, efficient, effective and unbiased enforcement agency in the history of the world?

Not even to mention making it much more difficult for average, law-abiding and responsible citizens to protect themselves, while doing nothing to stop criminals (who, incidently, make a habit of NOT obeying any laws, whether they're common sense or not), rich people, politically connected people and celebrities, from having access to firearms.

Very few, if any, of the school shootings, which are fueling this latest democrat push, would have been prevented by any of the proposed 'common sense' federal gun laws. In fact, several recent attempted mass shootings would have been much worse but for law-abiding citizens who had firearms that were there to stop them. I am not going to provide links. You go and research it. You might learn something your local news hasn't bothered to tell you.

But, I know, you will dismiss these arguments as hogwash, right?
Your friendly neighborhood racist. On the waiting list to be a nazi. Designated an honorary 'snowflake'. Trolled by the very best, as well as by BJ. Always typical, unlike others.., Fulminator, Hopelessly in the tank for trump... inappropriate... Flocking himself... Probably a tucking sexist, too... All thought comes from the right wing noise machine(TM)... A clear and present threat to The Future Of Our Democracy.. Doesn't understand anything... Made the trump apologist and enabler playoffs... Heathen bastard... Knows nothing about history... Liar.... don't know much about statistics and polling... Nothing at all about biology... Ignorant Bigot... Potential Future Pariah... Big Nerd... Spiraling

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