Costanza Syndrome

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SportsFan68
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Re: Costanza Syndrome

#26 Post by SportsFan68 » Sat Jun 18, 2022 12:32 pm

flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Thu Jun 16, 2022 9:05 pm
Bob78164 wrote:
Thu Jun 16, 2022 8:49 pm
flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Thu Jun 16, 2022 7:53 pm
He knows that. He's just practicing his lawyerly lying for our benefit.
It's truly remarkable for someone who demonstrably knows nothing about how our legal system works to accuse me (falsely) of lying about how our legal system works when the facts are a matter of public record.

Your guy lost. He lost at the polls and he lost (60 times) in court. That's because he's a loser and the voters rejected him. Deal with it. --Bob
It is interesting to me that government entities that put the country through 3 1/2 years of one-sided partisan investigations of a Russian hoax they tried with millions of taxpayer dollars and the assistance of a willing press came up with nothing but "We couldn't find anything to charge him with but we still think he's guilty".
These same government entities spend less than two seconds to declare "There's no credible evidence of widespread fraud' and 'most secure election in history' and you still believe them.
There is something very fishy. They seem to be very one-sided in a town where democrats routinely get more than 90% of the votes cast.
'Scuse me for being a bit skeptical.
Republicans routinely get more than 80% of the vote in Rio Blanco County in Colorado, and nobody thinks there's anything fishy about it. Thanks to Colorado's secure election system, even election lawbreakers get caught and removed from election duty (Mesa County). That particular lawbreaker was replaced for election purposes with one of the chief architects of the system, a Republican.

N.B. This won't make any difference to Flock; he'll say something in reply, but it will speak to a different point.

P.S. A bit more on Colorado's election system in reply to Ear below.
-- In Iroquois society, leaders are encouraged to remember seven generations in the past and consider seven generations in the future when making decisions that affect the people.
-- America would be a better place if leaders would do more long-term thinking. -- Wilma Mankiller

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Re: Costanza Syndrome

#27 Post by SportsFan68 » Sat Jun 18, 2022 12:48 pm

earendel wrote:
Fri Jun 17, 2022 8:56 am
flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Thu Jun 16, 2022 4:26 pm
If you (not you, bob. 'you; in general) feel that having an election DAY, like we've had for so many years in the past, adds an extra burden to those that work, by all means, let's talk about possibly having an election weekend or an election week, as long as we can agree on acceptable verification to make sure all votes are cast legally and authenticated thoroughly. And that all the rules and stipulations agreed upon are carried out in a uniform way in ALL districts in the state. And that bipartisan monitoring is fair and equitable. Maybe actually LEARN from the issues that have been identified in the past elections, instead of adding more vulnerabilities and unnecessary complications.
May I interject to say that I agree with most of what you say here. Having more than one day to vote, or moving it from the 2nd Tuesday to a weekend day, and/or having more than one day makes a good deal of sense. So does the idea of identification/verification. So why hasn't this happened? I suspect that one of the reasons is a fear of a "national identity card" on the part of people who are already mistrustful of government. As for paper ballots, I think that ship has sailed, largely because of the "I want it now" attitude among our people. It should be possible to combine electronic voting with paper ballots.
flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Thu Jun 16, 2022 4:26 pm
Can we do that? Or are we going to continue parroting the unsupported propaganda that our election system 'is the most secure in US history' and doesn't have to be changed or improved in any way?
Wasn't it William Barr who said that? And I don't think anyone is saying that things can't or shouldn't be improved.
Replying only to the bolded comment: It is possible, and Colorado does it. We vote a paper ballot, sign it, return it, and it is verified at the County Clerk's office. Verified ballots are processed in by bipartisan teams of two, removed from the identifying information on the envelope, then turned in to Clerk staff. Ballots are counted electronically with a scanner; total number of ballots counted must match the number processed in. Results are available immediately, and County Clerks always take care to note that they're unofficial until all the military ballots are in and some ballots are "cured" for various reasons -- the voter forgot to sign, for one example. It's very rare the margin is close enough that these ballots (usually less than 100) make a difference.

There is then a risk-limiting audit, a complicated, arduous, and, frankly, boring process, and I'm glad after doing it twice to get a former Republican and retired engineer representing Dems in the job. My county has never discovered problems during the audit.
-- In Iroquois society, leaders are encouraged to remember seven generations in the past and consider seven generations in the future when making decisions that affect the people.
-- America would be a better place if leaders would do more long-term thinking. -- Wilma Mankiller

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Re: Costanza Syndrome

#28 Post by flockofseagulls104 » Sat Jun 18, 2022 1:52 pm

SportsFan68 wrote:
Sat Jun 18, 2022 12:32 pm
flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Thu Jun 16, 2022 9:05 pm
Bob78164 wrote:
Thu Jun 16, 2022 8:49 pm
It's truly remarkable for someone who demonstrably knows nothing about how our legal system works to accuse me (falsely) of lying about how our legal system works when the facts are a matter of public record.

Your guy lost. He lost at the polls and he lost (60 times) in court. That's because he's a loser and the voters rejected him. Deal with it. --Bob
It is interesting to me that government entities that put the country through 3 1/2 years of one-sided partisan investigations of a Russian hoax they tried with millions of taxpayer dollars and the assistance of a willing press came up with nothing but "We couldn't find anything to charge him with but we still think he's guilty".
These same government entities spend less than two seconds to declare "There's no credible evidence of widespread fraud' and 'most secure election in history' and you still believe them.
There is something very fishy. They seem to be very one-sided in a town where democrats routinely get more than 90% of the votes cast.
'Scuse me for being a bit skeptical.
Republicans routinely get more than 80% of the vote in Rio Blanco County in Colorado, and nobody thinks there's anything fishy about it. Thanks to Colorado's secure election system, even election lawbreakers get caught and removed from election duty (Mesa County). That particular lawbreaker was replaced for election purposes with one of the chief architects of the system, a Republican.

N.B. This won't make any difference to Flock; he'll say something in reply, but it will speak to a different point.

P.S. A bit more on Colorado's election system in reply to Ear below.
Seems to me our federal government and pretty much all it's hundreds of institutions are not based in Rio Blanco County, Colorado.
Is that on point, sprots?
Your friendly neighborhood racist. On the waiting list to be a nazi. Designated an honorary 'snowflake'. Trolled by the very best, as well as by BJ. Always typical, unlike others.., Fulminator, Hopelessly in the tank for trump... inappropriate... Flocking himself... Probably a tucking sexist, too... All thought comes from the right wing noise machine(TM)... A clear and present threat to The Future Of Our Democracy.. Doesn't understand anything... Made the trump apologist and enabler playoffs... Heathen bastard... Knows nothing about history... Liar.... don't know much about statistics and polling... Nothing at all about biology... Ignorant Bigot... Potential Future Pariah... Big Nerd... Spiraling

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Re: Costanza Syndrome

#29 Post by flockofseagulls104 » Sat Jun 18, 2022 1:56 pm

SportsFan68 wrote:
Sat Jun 18, 2022 12:48 pm
earendel wrote:
Fri Jun 17, 2022 8:56 am
flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Thu Jun 16, 2022 4:26 pm
If you (not you, bob. 'you; in general) feel that having an election DAY, like we've had for so many years in the past, adds an extra burden to those that work, by all means, let's talk about possibly having an election weekend or an election week, as long as we can agree on acceptable verification to make sure all votes are cast legally and authenticated thoroughly. And that all the rules and stipulations agreed upon are carried out in a uniform way in ALL districts in the state. And that bipartisan monitoring is fair and equitable. Maybe actually LEARN from the issues that have been identified in the past elections, instead of adding more vulnerabilities and unnecessary complications.
May I interject to say that I agree with most of what you say here. Having more than one day to vote, or moving it from the 2nd Tuesday to a weekend day, and/or having more than one day makes a good deal of sense. So does the idea of identification/verification. So why hasn't this happened? I suspect that one of the reasons is a fear of a "national identity card" on the part of people who are already mistrustful of government. As for paper ballots, I think that ship has sailed, largely because of the "I want it now" attitude among our people. It should be possible to combine electronic voting with paper ballots.
flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Thu Jun 16, 2022 4:26 pm
Can we do that? Or are we going to continue parroting the unsupported propaganda that our election system 'is the most secure in US history' and doesn't have to be changed or improved in any way?
Wasn't it William Barr who said that? And I don't think anyone is saying that things can't or shouldn't be improved.
Replying only to the bolded comment: It is possible, and Colorado does it. We vote a paper ballot, sign it, return it, and it is verified at the County Clerk's office. Verified ballots are processed in by bipartisan teams of two, removed from the identifying information on the envelope, then turned in to Clerk staff. Ballots are counted electronically with a scanner; total number of ballots counted must match the number processed in. Results are available immediately, and County Clerks always take care to note that they're unofficial until all the military ballots are in and some ballots are "cured" for various reasons -- the voter forgot to sign, for one example. It's very rare the margin is close enough that these ballots (usually less than 100) make a difference.

There is then a risk-limiting audit, a complicated, arduous, and, frankly, boring process, and I'm glad after doing it twice to get a former Republican and retired engineer representing Dems in the job. My county has never discovered problems during the audit.
I am not aware of anyone who has cast any doubt on the Colorado results in the 2020 election. As far as I am aware, there were no big swings of votes in the early morning hours in Colorado like there were in other states. So good for Colorado. Maybe other states should emulate your process.
Your friendly neighborhood racist. On the waiting list to be a nazi. Designated an honorary 'snowflake'. Trolled by the very best, as well as by BJ. Always typical, unlike others.., Fulminator, Hopelessly in the tank for trump... inappropriate... Flocking himself... Probably a tucking sexist, too... All thought comes from the right wing noise machine(TM)... A clear and present threat to The Future Of Our Democracy.. Doesn't understand anything... Made the trump apologist and enabler playoffs... Heathen bastard... Knows nothing about history... Liar.... don't know much about statistics and polling... Nothing at all about biology... Ignorant Bigot... Potential Future Pariah... Big Nerd... Spiraling

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Re: Costanza Syndrome

#30 Post by SportsFan68 » Sat Jun 18, 2022 2:42 pm

flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Sat Jun 18, 2022 1:56 pm
SportsFan68 wrote:
Sat Jun 18, 2022 12:48 pm
earendel wrote:
Fri Jun 17, 2022 8:56 am

May I interject to say that I agree with most of what you say here. Having more than one day to vote, or moving it from the 2nd Tuesday to a weekend day, and/or having more than one day makes a good deal of sense. So does the idea of identification/verification. So why hasn't this happened? I suspect that one of the reasons is a fear of a "national identity card" on the part of people who are already mistrustful of government. As for paper ballots, I think that ship has sailed, largely because of the "I want it now" attitude among our people. It should be possible to combine electronic voting with paper ballots.


Wasn't it William Barr who said that? And I don't think anyone is saying that things can't or shouldn't be improved.
Replying only to the bolded comment: It is possible, and Colorado does it. We vote a paper ballot, sign it, return it, and it is verified at the County Clerk's office. Verified ballots are processed in by bipartisan teams of two, removed from the identifying information on the envelope, then turned in to Clerk staff. Ballots are counted electronically with a scanner; total number of ballots counted must match the number processed in. Results are available immediately, and County Clerks always take care to note that they're unofficial until all the military ballots are in and some ballots are "cured" for various reasons -- the voter forgot to sign, for one example. It's very rare the margin is close enough that these ballots (usually less than 100) make a difference.

There is then a risk-limiting audit, a complicated, arduous, and, frankly, boring process, and I'm glad after doing it twice to get a former Republican and retired engineer representing Dems in the job. My county has never discovered problems during the audit.
I am not aware of anyone who has cast any doubt on the Colorado results in the 2020 election. As far as I am aware, there were no big swings of votes in the early morning hours in Colorado like there were in other states. So good for Colorado. Maybe other states should emulate your process.
YAY! YAY YAY YAY!!!

FLOCK AND I AGREE ON SOMETHING!
-- In Iroquois society, leaders are encouraged to remember seven generations in the past and consider seven generations in the future when making decisions that affect the people.
-- America would be a better place if leaders would do more long-term thinking. -- Wilma Mankiller

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Re: Costanza Syndrome

#31 Post by silverscreenselect » Sat Jun 18, 2022 2:54 pm

flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Sat Jun 18, 2022 1:56 pm
As far as I am aware, there were no big swings of votes in the early morning hours in Colorado like there were in other states.
Another strawman from the people baselessly claiming fraud. Different states and different election offices had different procedures for counting ballots. In some places, early and absentee votes were counted as they came in. In others, they weren't counted until after the day of election totals. That's going to result in a swing depending on how many early votes there were and how long it took to count them.

Nothing sinister except in Trump's mind.
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Re: Costanza Syndrome

#32 Post by Beebs52 » Sat Jun 18, 2022 3:05 pm

silverscreenselect wrote:
Sat Jun 18, 2022 2:54 pm
flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Sat Jun 18, 2022 1:56 pm
As far as I am aware, there were no big swings of votes in the early morning hours in Colorado like there were in other states.
Another strawman from the people baselessly claiming fraud. Different states and different election offices had different procedures for counting ballots. In some places, early and absentee votes were counted as they came in. In others, they weren't counted until after the day of election totals. That's going to result in a swing depending on how many early votes there were and how long it took to count them.

Nothing sinister except in Trump's mind.
Gotta harsh the buzz right?
Well, then

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Re: Costanza Syndrome

#33 Post by Beebs52 » Sat Jun 18, 2022 3:06 pm

SportsFan68 wrote:
Sat Jun 18, 2022 2:42 pm
flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Sat Jun 18, 2022 1:56 pm
SportsFan68 wrote:
Sat Jun 18, 2022 12:48 pm


Replying only to the bolded comment: It is possible, and Colorado does it. We vote a paper ballot, sign it, return it, and it is verified at the County Clerk's office. Verified ballots are processed in by bipartisan teams of two, removed from the identifying information on the envelope, then turned in to Clerk staff. Ballots are counted electronically with a scanner; total number of ballots counted must match the number processed in. Results are available immediately, and County Clerks always take care to note that they're unofficial until all the military ballots are in and some ballots are "cured" for various reasons -- the voter forgot to sign, for one example. It's very rare the margin is close enough that these ballots (usually less than 100) make a difference.

There is then a risk-limiting audit, a complicated, arduous, and, frankly, boring process, and I'm glad after doing it twice to get a former Republican and retired engineer representing Dems in the job. My county has never discovered problems during the audit.
I am not aware of anyone who has cast any doubt on the Colorado results in the 2020 election. As far as I am aware, there were no big swings of votes in the early morning hours in Colorado like there were in other states. So good for Colorado. Maybe other states should emulate your process.
YAY! YAY YAY YAY!!!

FLOCK AND I AGREE ON SOMETHING!
Rec
Well, then

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Re: Costanza Syndrome

#34 Post by flockofseagulls104 » Sat Jun 18, 2022 3:28 pm

Beebs52 wrote:
Sat Jun 18, 2022 3:05 pm
silverscreenselect wrote:
Sat Jun 18, 2022 2:54 pm
flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Sat Jun 18, 2022 1:56 pm
As far as I am aware, there were no big swings of votes in the early morning hours in Colorado like there were in other states.
Another strawman from the people baselessly claiming fraud. Different states and different election offices had different procedures for counting ballots. In some places, early and absentee votes were counted as they came in. In others, they weren't counted until after the day of election totals. That's going to result in a swing depending on how many early votes there were and how long it took to count them.

Nothing sinister except in Trump's mind.
Gotta harsh the buzz right?
c'mon. We all know that if I say something, he's against it. That's his self-appointed mission in life. He always gets his man.

https://youtu.be/3cKUppvjJuw

BTW, was that Frank Tangredi as one of the trustees?
Last edited by flockofseagulls104 on Sat Jun 18, 2022 3:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Your friendly neighborhood racist. On the waiting list to be a nazi. Designated an honorary 'snowflake'. Trolled by the very best, as well as by BJ. Always typical, unlike others.., Fulminator, Hopelessly in the tank for trump... inappropriate... Flocking himself... Probably a tucking sexist, too... All thought comes from the right wing noise machine(TM)... A clear and present threat to The Future Of Our Democracy.. Doesn't understand anything... Made the trump apologist and enabler playoffs... Heathen bastard... Knows nothing about history... Liar.... don't know much about statistics and polling... Nothing at all about biology... Ignorant Bigot... Potential Future Pariah... Big Nerd... Spiraling

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Re: Costanza Syndrome

#35 Post by Beebs52 » Sat Jun 18, 2022 3:32 pm

:lol:
Well, then

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Re: Costanza Syndrome

#36 Post by kroxquo » Sat Jun 18, 2022 3:50 pm

flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Sat Jun 18, 2022 1:56 pm
SportsFan68 wrote:
Sat Jun 18, 2022 12:48 pm
earendel wrote:
Fri Jun 17, 2022 8:56 am

May I interject to say that I agree with most of what you say here. Having more than one day to vote, or moving it from the 2nd Tuesday to a weekend day, and/or having more than one day makes a good deal of sense. So does the idea of identification/verification. So why hasn't this happened? I suspect that one of the reasons is a fear of a "national identity card" on the part of people who are already mistrustful of government. As for paper ballots, I think that ship has sailed, largely because of the "I want it now" attitude among our people. It should be possible to combine electronic voting with paper ballots.


Wasn't it William Barr who said that? And I don't think anyone is saying that things can't or shouldn't be improved.
Replying only to the bolded comment: It is possible, and Colorado does it. We vote a paper ballot, sign it, return it, and it is verified at the County Clerk's office. Verified ballots are processed in by bipartisan teams of two, removed from the identifying information on the envelope, then turned in to Clerk staff. Ballots are counted electronically with a scanner; total number of ballots counted must match the number processed in. Results are available immediately, and County Clerks always take care to note that they're unofficial until all the military ballots are in and some ballots are "cured" for various reasons -- the voter forgot to sign, for one example. It's very rare the margin is close enough that these ballots (usually less than 100) make a difference.

There is then a risk-limiting audit, a complicated, arduous, and, frankly, boring process, and I'm glad after doing it twice to get a former Republican and retired engineer representing Dems in the job. My county has never discovered problems during the audit.
I am not aware of anyone who has cast any doubt on the Colorado results in the 2020 election. As far as I am aware, there were no big swings of votes in the early morning hours in Colorado like there were in other states. So good for Colorado. Maybe other states should emulate your process.
In North Carolina, there was a swing overnight that allowed incumbent Governor Roy Cooper (D) to beat his Republican opponent despite the state electing a Republicans to Lt. Governor, 5 out of the 8 Council of State positions (our version of the cabinet), and all 3 State Supreme Court seats that were up for election. Why has North Carolina never been mentioned as one of the states where fraud took place? Oh yeah, the 45th President carried it so obviously the election was valid.
You live and learn. Or at least you live. - Douglas Adams

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Re: Costanza Syndrome

#37 Post by flockofseagulls104 » Sat Jun 18, 2022 4:11 pm

kroxquo wrote:
Sat Jun 18, 2022 3:50 pm
flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Sat Jun 18, 2022 1:56 pm
SportsFan68 wrote:
Sat Jun 18, 2022 12:48 pm


Replying only to the bolded comment: It is possible, and Colorado does it. We vote a paper ballot, sign it, return it, and it is verified at the County Clerk's office. Verified ballots are processed in by bipartisan teams of two, removed from the identifying information on the envelope, then turned in to Clerk staff. Ballots are counted electronically with a scanner; total number of ballots counted must match the number processed in. Results are available immediately, and County Clerks always take care to note that they're unofficial until all the military ballots are in and some ballots are "cured" for various reasons -- the voter forgot to sign, for one example. It's very rare the margin is close enough that these ballots (usually less than 100) make a difference.

There is then a risk-limiting audit, a complicated, arduous, and, frankly, boring process, and I'm glad after doing it twice to get a former Republican and retired engineer representing Dems in the job. My county has never discovered problems during the audit.
I am not aware of anyone who has cast any doubt on the Colorado results in the 2020 election. As far as I am aware, there were no big swings of votes in the early morning hours in Colorado like there were in other states. So good for Colorado. Maybe other states should emulate your process.
In North Carolina, there was a swing overnight that allowed incumbent Governor Roy Cooper (D) to beat his Republican opponent despite the state electing a Republicans to Lt. Governor, 5 out of the 8 Council of State positions (our version of the cabinet), and all 3 State Supreme Court seats that were up for election. Why has North Carolina never been mentioned as one of the states where fraud took place? Oh yeah, the 45th President carried it so obviously the election was valid.
OK, since you took the time to point that out, maybe it should be examined...
Your friendly neighborhood racist. On the waiting list to be a nazi. Designated an honorary 'snowflake'. Trolled by the very best, as well as by BJ. Always typical, unlike others.., Fulminator, Hopelessly in the tank for trump... inappropriate... Flocking himself... Probably a tucking sexist, too... All thought comes from the right wing noise machine(TM)... A clear and present threat to The Future Of Our Democracy.. Doesn't understand anything... Made the trump apologist and enabler playoffs... Heathen bastard... Knows nothing about history... Liar.... don't know much about statistics and polling... Nothing at all about biology... Ignorant Bigot... Potential Future Pariah... Big Nerd... Spiraling

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Re: Costanza Syndrome

#38 Post by silverscreenselect » Sat Jun 18, 2022 7:18 pm

flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Sat Jun 18, 2022 3:28 pm
c'mon. We all know that if I say something, he's against it. That's his self-appointed mission in life. He always gets his man.
Flock, as long as you keep mindlessly quoting Dennis Prager and Donald Trump, you're going to be wrong almost every single time.

If you would ever actually introduce some evidence to support your claims, people might listen to you. I'm still waiting on the evidence from True the Vote.

And waiting.

And waiting.
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Re: Costanza Syndrome

#39 Post by silverscreenselect » Sat Jun 18, 2022 7:20 pm

flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Sat Jun 18, 2022 4:11 pm
kroxquo wrote:
Sat Jun 18, 2022 3:50 pm
In North Carolina, there was a swing overnight that allowed incumbent Governor Roy Cooper (D) to beat his Republican opponent despite the state electing a Republicans to Lt. Governor, 5 out of the 8 Council of State positions (our version of the cabinet), and all 3 State Supreme Court seats that were up for election. Why has North Carolina never been mentioned as one of the states where fraud took place? Oh yeah, the 45th President carried it so obviously the election was valid.
OK, since you took the time to point that out, maybe it should be examined...
Of course, a simpler explanation is that Cooper impressed enough people with the job he had done running the state in the previous four years to get some Republicans to vote for him.
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