Are you a leftist or a liberal?

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flockofseagulls104
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Are you a leftist or a liberal?

#1 Post by flockofseagulls104 » Thu Jun 16, 2022 10:59 am

The unsurprising response to my suggestion, by some, that Juneteenth be looked on as a way to unite this country instead of dividing it reminded me of an idea Dennis Prager espouses. He believes the LEFT is evil, but liberals are not. They just vote for leftists. I think everyday, I see more evidence that is true.

Dennis Prager:
As I have noted repeatedly, liberalism and leftism have virtually nothing in common. In fact, leftism is the enemy of liberalism — as a handful of liberals such as former New York Times writer Bari Weiss, former Young Turk Dave Rubin, and others have come to recognize.

The left has never believed in free speech and has suppressed dissent wherever it has assumed power. Free speech is a pillar of liberalism, and it has always embraced dissent.

The left rejects the anti-racist ideal of color-blindness. Colorblind is the liberal racial ideal.

The left supports racial segregation — such as all-black dorms and separate black graduations. Liberals have always advocated racial integration.

The left has always loathed capitalism. Liberals were always major advocates of capitalism — recognizing that only capitalism has lifted billions of people out of poverty.

The left has always been anti-Israel. Liberals have always been fervent supporters of Israel.

The left has always held America in contempt. Liberals loved this country. A liberal wrote, “God bless America.” No leftist would write such a song.

Leftists want to defund the police. No liberal does.

The list of liberal-left differences is as long as the list of left-wing positions.

Yet, it is liberals who keep the left in power. Were it not for the liberal vote, the left would have no power.

Why do liberals vote left? Why do liberals vote for those who have contempt for virtually everything they, the liberals, hold dear?

The question is all the more apt given that it is conservatives who protect virtually every liberal value. It is conservatives who seek to preserve free speech, racial integration, love of America, a strong Israel, and capitalism.

So why do liberals vote for the left, for the very people who hold liberals and their values in contempt?

There are two primary reasons.

One is brainwash. Liberals are brainwashed from childhood into believing that the right is their enemy and that pas d’ennemis a gauche (there are “no enemies on the left”). That is why there is no left-wing position, no matter how destructive or vile, that could move a liberal to vote Republican or identify with conservatives.

The second reason is fear. Liberals fear they will lose friends and even family if they do not vote Democrat or if they publicly criticize the left. And this is not an irrational fear.

America and the West are being destroyed by the left. But this destruction of the universities, the high schools, art and music, journalism, and of freedom itself could not take place were it not for liberals.

The fate of America and the West lies largely in the hands of liberals. There are simply not enough leftists to destroy our most revered institutions. They need liberals to serve as fellow travelers to accomplish their ends.

Should the American experiment fail — and it may — that profile in lack of courage, the liberal, will have made it possible.
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Re: Are you a leftist or a liberal?

#2 Post by Bob78164 » Thu Jun 16, 2022 11:10 am

flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Thu Jun 16, 2022 10:59 am
Dennis Prager wrote:So why do liberals vote for the left, for the very people who hold liberals and their values in contempt?

There are two primary reasons.

One is brainwash. Liberals are brainwashed from childhood into believing that the right is their enemy and that pas d’ennemis a gauche (there are “no enemies on the left”). That is why there is no left-wing position, no matter how destructive or vile, that could move a liberal to vote Republican or identify with conservatives.

The second reason is fear. Liberals fear they will lose friends and even family if they do not vote Democrat or if they publicly criticize the left. And this is not an irrational fear.
Hmmmm. So if only liberals were smarter and more courageous, they'd vote the way you want them to vote? That sounds an awful lot like views you've excoriated when applied to Republican voters.

And by the way, you're using (more precisely, you're quoting Prager using) the typical Republican tactic of conflating the extreme left wing with the entire left. That would be like conflating the entire Republican Party with the radical MAGA movement that is attempting to rationalize an armed insurrection. Except that the radical MAGA movement that is attempting to rationalize an armed insurrection has in fact largely succeeded in commandeering the apparatus of the Republican Party, whereas the extreme left wing of the Democratic Party isn't remotely close to taking over the party. --Bob
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Re: Are you a leftist or a liberal?

#3 Post by Bob Juch » Thu Jun 16, 2022 11:12 am

What a load of bullshit! There is no hard dividing line between leftists and liberals. That's just an attempt to gaslight liberals.
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Re: Are you a leftist or a liberal?

#4 Post by flockofseagulls104 » Thu Jun 16, 2022 11:16 am

Bob78164 wrote:
Thu Jun 16, 2022 11:10 am
flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Thu Jun 16, 2022 10:59 am
Dennis Prager wrote:So why do liberals vote for the left, for the very people who hold liberals and their values in contempt?

There are two primary reasons.

One is brainwash. Liberals are brainwashed from childhood into believing that the right is their enemy and that pas d’ennemis a gauche (there are “no enemies on the left”). That is why there is no left-wing position, no matter how destructive or vile, that could move a liberal to vote Republican or identify with conservatives.

The second reason is fear. Liberals fear they will lose friends and even family if they do not vote Democrat or if they publicly criticize the left. And this is not an irrational fear.
Hmmmm. So if only liberals were smarter and more courageous, they'd vote the way you want them to vote? That sounds an awful lot like views you've excoriated when applied to Republican voters. --Bob
Well, bob, you obviously fit the definition of a leftist, from your history of musings on this bored. So, I don't think you really have a relevant opinion in this. But go ahead and rant as much as you want.
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Re: Are you a leftist or a liberal?

#5 Post by flockofseagulls104 » Thu Jun 16, 2022 11:19 am

Bob Juch wrote:
Thu Jun 16, 2022 11:12 am
What a load of bullshit! There is no hard dividing line between leftists and liberals. That's just an attempt to gaslight liberals.
I don't think, from your history, BJ, you spent one second trying to comprehend it, even if you bothered to read it at all.

And I'm sure the stalker will weigh in with his refutation within a few minutes. And I will probably get a personal jab, as well.
Your friendly neighborhood racist. On the waiting list to be a nazi. Designated an honorary 'snowflake'. Trolled by the very best, as well as by BJ. Always typical, unlike others.., Fulminator, Hopelessly in the tank for trump... inappropriate... Flocking himself... Probably a tucking sexist, too... All thought comes from the right wing noise machine(TM)... A clear and present threat to The Future Of Our Democracy.. Doesn't understand anything... Made the trump apologist and enabler playoffs... Heathen bastard... Knows nothing about history... Liar.... don't know much about statistics and polling... Nothing at all about biology... Ignorant Bigot... Potential Future Pariah... Big Nerd... Spiraling

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Re: Are you a leftist or a liberal?

#6 Post by Bob78164 » Thu Jun 16, 2022 11:20 am

flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Thu Jun 16, 2022 11:16 am
Bob78164 wrote:
Thu Jun 16, 2022 11:10 am
flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Thu Jun 16, 2022 10:59 am
Hmmmm. So if only liberals were smarter and more courageous, they'd vote the way you want them to vote? That sounds an awful lot like views you've excoriated when applied to Republican voters. --Bob
Well, bob, you obviously fit the definition of a leftist, from your history of musings on this bored. So, I don't think you really have a relevant opinion in this. But go ahead and rant as much as you want.
Typical. Respond to having your hypocrisy highlighted with an ad hominem attack, because you have no substantive response. --Bob
"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear." Thomas Jefferson

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Re: Are you a leftist or a liberal?

#7 Post by flockofseagulls104 » Thu Jun 16, 2022 11:37 am

Bob78164 wrote:
Thu Jun 16, 2022 11:20 am
flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Thu Jun 16, 2022 11:16 am
Bob78164 wrote:
Thu Jun 16, 2022 11:10 am
Hmmmm. So if only liberals were smarter and more courageous, they'd vote the way you want them to vote? That sounds an awful lot like views you've excoriated when applied to Republican voters. --Bob
Well, bob, you obviously fit the definition of a leftist, from your history of musings on this bored. So, I don't think you really have a relevant opinion in this. But go ahead and rant as much as you want.
Typical. Respond to having your hypocrisy highlighted with an ad hominem attack, because you have no substantive response. --Bob
Wow, plagiarism is one of your skills as well? Multi-talented above average lawyer..

Do you support what Jane's Revenge is doing, bob?

https://janesrevenge.noblogs.org/

Let's hear your passionate condemnation to what RuthSentUs did... Oh, I remember now. You defended them because they have the right to 'peaceful' protesting in a residential neighborhood trying to influence and intimidate a Supreme Court Justice. Just like you would do to a judge who might rule against you. Even though it is specifically against the law that is not being enforced.

I never heard your passionate condemnation of the BLM riots that caused billions of dollars of damage to innocent people and cost many lives. But you would devote your life, fortune and sacred honor to make your political party's opposition 'irrelevant' or do something unspecified to anyone who uses the wrong pronoun, in your judgment.

To be honest, bob. If I was asked who on this bored fits the profile of someone who should be subject to a red flag law, it would definitely be you.

That's why I believe you are a leftist.

There's my substantive response bob. And have no fear. I will begin flocking myself immediately.
Your friendly neighborhood racist. On the waiting list to be a nazi. Designated an honorary 'snowflake'. Trolled by the very best, as well as by BJ. Always typical, unlike others.., Fulminator, Hopelessly in the tank for trump... inappropriate... Flocking himself... Probably a tucking sexist, too... All thought comes from the right wing noise machine(TM)... A clear and present threat to The Future Of Our Democracy.. Doesn't understand anything... Made the trump apologist and enabler playoffs... Heathen bastard... Knows nothing about history... Liar.... don't know much about statistics and polling... Nothing at all about biology... Ignorant Bigot... Potential Future Pariah... Big Nerd... Spiraling

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Re: Are you a leftist or a liberal?

#8 Post by earendel » Thu Jun 16, 2022 2:24 pm

flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Thu Jun 16, 2022 10:59 am
The unsurprising response to my suggestion, by some, that Juneteenth be looked on as a way to unite this country instead of dividing it reminded me of an idea Dennis Prager espouses. He believes the LEFT is evil, but liberals are not. They just vote for leftists. I think everyday, I see more evidence that is true.

Dennis Prager:
As I have noted repeatedly, liberalism and leftism have virtually nothing in common. In fact, leftism is the enemy of liberalism — as a handful of liberals such as former New York Times writer Bari Weiss, former Young Turk Dave Rubin, and others have come to recognize.

The left has never believed in free speech and has suppressed dissent wherever it has assumed power. Free speech is a pillar of liberalism, and it has always embraced dissent.

The left rejects the anti-racist ideal of color-blindness. Colorblind is the liberal racial ideal.

The left supports racial segregation — such as all-black dorms and separate black graduations. Liberals have always advocated racial integration.

The left has always loathed capitalism. Liberals were always major advocates of capitalism — recognizing that only capitalism has lifted billions of people out of poverty.

The left has always been anti-Israel. Liberals have always been fervent supporters of Israel.

The left has always held America in contempt. Liberals loved this country. A liberal wrote, “God bless America.” No leftist would write such a song.

Leftists want to defund the police. No liberal does.

The list of liberal-left differences is as long as the list of left-wing positions.

Yet, it is liberals who keep the left in power. Were it not for the liberal vote, the left would have no power.

Why do liberals vote left? Why do liberals vote for those who have contempt for virtually everything they, the liberals, hold dear?

The question is all the more apt given that it is conservatives who protect virtually every liberal value. It is conservatives who seek to preserve free speech, racial integration, love of America, a strong Israel, and capitalism.

So why do liberals vote for the left, for the very people who hold liberals and their values in contempt?

There are two primary reasons.

One is brainwash. Liberals are brainwashed from childhood into believing that the right is their enemy and that pas d’ennemis a gauche (there are “no enemies on the left”). That is why there is no left-wing position, no matter how destructive or vile, that could move a liberal to vote Republican or identify with conservatives.

The second reason is fear. Liberals fear they will lose friends and even family if they do not vote Democrat or if they publicly criticize the left. And this is not an irrational fear.

America and the West are being destroyed by the left. But this destruction of the universities, the high schools, art and music, journalism, and of freedom itself could not take place were it not for liberals.

The fate of America and the West lies largely in the hands of liberals. There are simply not enough leftists to destroy our most revered institutions. They need liberals to serve as fellow travelers to accomplish their ends.

Should the American experiment fail — and it may — that profile in lack of courage, the liberal, will have made it possible.
OK, I'll play...
The left has never believed in free speech and has suppressed dissent wherever it has assumed power. Free speech is a pillar of liberalism, and it has always embraced dissent.
There is no such thing as unfettered free speech - hate speech cannot be allowed. Yes, I realize that "hate speech" can be defined in a number of ways.

The left rejects the anti-racist ideal of color-blindness. Colorblind is the liberal racial ideal.
Color-blindness is indeed an ideal. However it hasn't been realized. Until it is, we must strive to make it so.

The left supports racial segregation — such as all-black dorms and separate black graduations. Liberals have always advocated racial integration.
Separate facilities (such as all Black fraternities or sororities) are not a bad thing if it is what Blacks want. This includes schools (historically Black colleges and universities). Studies have shown that young black men, especially, do better in segregated classes. But this is by choice, not by fiat.

The left has always loathed capitalism. Liberals were always major advocates of capitalism — recognizing that only capitalism has lifted billions of people out of poverty.
I'm all for capitalism, but not unrestrained capitalism. I have no problem with amassing wealth, as long as it isn't done by exploiting others.

Leftists want to defund the police. No liberal does.
Defund the police? No, but perhaps a reallocation of funds so that every incident isn't treated as a call to war.

The left has always been anti-Israel. Liberals have always been fervent supporters of Israel.
I'm not anti-Israel but I am anti- their treatment of Palestinians. Granted, it's hard to do otherwise in that environment.

The left has always held America in contempt. Liberals loved this country. A liberal wrote, “God bless America.” No leftist would write such a song.
I certainly have love for my country, but I don't always love what it does. "God bless America" indeed - the Bible says that we should pray for our nation and its leaders. However I don't think a prayer like that offered by Lauren Boebert is very helpful. She's quoted as using Psalm 109:8 - "May his days be few and may another take his place."

OK, so am I a liberal or a leftist?
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Re: Are you a leftist or a liberal?

#9 Post by Beebs52 » Thu Jun 16, 2022 3:16 pm

Ear, just curious. What if someone only wanted non-Black facilities on campus?
Well, then

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Re: Are you a leftist or a liberal?

#10 Post by flockofseagulls104 » Thu Jun 16, 2022 4:13 pm

OK, I'll counter:
I haven't had time to answer these as succinctly as I'd like. But, hey, this ain't my full-time job. Try and give me some slack (which others won't) and get the gist of what I'm trying to say.
----------------------------------------
The left has never believed in free speech and has suppressed dissent wherever it has assumed power. Free speech is a pillar of liberalism, and it has always embraced dissent.
There is no such thing as unfettered free speech - hate speech cannot be allowed. Yes, I realize that "hate speech" can be defined in a number of ways.
-------------------------
Leftists at universities ban, censor, shout down, threaten and or riot when conservative voices are given a rare opportunity to speak.
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/20 ... vative-vo/
Social Media companies like Twitter, Facebook, Youtube, and even Google censor, cancel and shadow ban conservative speech on a frequent basis.
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/20 ... ve-voices/

I can give you many more examples of LEFTIST assaults on free speech, in which THEY ARBITRARILY define what is hate speech. If you support that, then I would say you are a leftist. If you don't, why do you vote for people who condone it?
--------------------------
The left rejects the anti-racist ideal of color-blindness. Colorblind is the liberal racial ideal.
Color-blindness is indeed an ideal. However it hasn't been realized. Until it is, we must strive to make it so.
--------------------------------
The left has apparently adopted the narrative that color-blindness is NOT an ideal. In fact, it's counter-productive.
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/ar ... ve/405037/
Is rejecting the idea that we should strive to judge people by their character and not their skin color striving to achieve the ideal? If you think this is the case, maybe you are a leftist. If not, why do you continue to vote for those that do?
---------------------------------------
The left supports racial segregation — such as all-black dorms and separate black graduations. Liberals have always advocated racial integration.
Separate facilities (such as all Black fraternities or sororities) are not a bad thing if it is what Blacks want. This includes schools (historically Black colleges and universities). Studies have shown that young black men, especially, do better in segregated classes. But this is by choice, not by fiat.
---------------------------------
So you say color-blindness is indeed an ideal. Does going back to the days of segregation support the ideal of color-blindness, or as MLK put it: Judging people by the content of their character, not the color of their skin?
How would you feel if the white students wanted to do the same thing? Why do you have different standards for people simply because of the amount of melanin in their skin?
https://youtu.be/CRmkw8XBMKk
Apparently, universities are reverting to segregation. Do you believe that's the right way to go? If you do, then I would say you are a leftist. If not, why do you vote for those who do?
---------------------------------
The left has always loathed capitalism. Liberals were always major advocates of capitalism — recognizing that only capitalism has lifted billions of people out of poverty.
I'm all for capitalism, but not unrestrained capitalism. I have no problem with amassing wealth, as long as it isn't done by exploiting others.
-----------------------------------
The democrat party has almost nominated an avowed socialist for President on two occasions.
It has elected many self confessed socialists to national office
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_D ... ted_States
(note, for some reason, this list does not include Senator Bernie Sanders, so I question it's thoroughness.)
The democrat party apparently is populated with a majority of people, thanks to university indoctrination, have a POSITIVE view of socialism.
https://www.investors.com/politics/edit ... tic-party/
DO you believe socialism is an acceptable form of government? Do you want the United States to become a socialistic country like Venezuela?
If you do, then you may be a leftist. If not, why does your party (An assumption, I know) keep electing those who describe themselves as socialists?
----------------------------------------
Leftists want to defund the police. No liberal does
Defund the police? No, but perhaps a reallocation of funds so that every incident isn't treated as a call to war.
-----------------------------------------
This might be a little out of date. But the democrat party loudly and strongly supported the 'Defund the Police' mantra until very recently. It was only when crime exploded in those
democrat cities that actually did it, that they backed off, and, unsurprisingly, tried to shift blame to those evil republicans.
https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2021 ... ng-police/
Reallocation of funds to where? Was that not tried in some places? How did it work out?

Do you support defunding the police? If so, you might be a leftist. Why, in hell, knowing what we do now, would you vote for someone who does?
-------------------------------------------------------
The left has always been anti-Israel. Liberals have always been fervent supporters of Israel.
I'm not anti-Israel but I am anti- their treatment of Palestinians. Granted, it's hard to do otherwise in that environment.
-------------------------------------
It always seems to escape notice from the main stream and international press how badly the Palestinian government treats Israeli citizens. They routinely launch exploding rockets randomly
into the Israli populace, but Israel gets condemned for retaliating, usually specifically targeted to avoid civilian casualties. But that is the status quo.
And unfortunately, there are many anti semites in the democrat party.
https://nypost.com/2021/09/22/the-squad ... yet-again/
I can't resist pointing out that the democrats and the media they control accused Trump of being an anti-semite, despite the fact he has Jewish children and grandchildren, and was the only US President to make good on the long standing promise of moving our Israeli Embassy to Jerusalem.

But you say you are not anti-Israel. Given the fact that they are the only 'democratic' nation in the middle east, that is rather a lukewarm endorsement. If you were anti-israel, I would say you are a leftist. Since you state you are not, you may be a liberal. However, why have several districts elected people who are obviously anti-Israel? And why are they ALL democrats?
------------------------------
The left has always held America in contempt. Liberals loved this country. A liberal wrote, “God bless America.” No leftist would write such a song.
I certainly have love for my country, but I don't always love what it does. "God bless America" indeed - the Bible says that we should pray for our nation and its leaders. However I don't think a prayer like that offered by Lauren Boebert is very helpful. She's quoted as using Psalm 109:8 - "May his days be few and may another take his place."
----------------------
I love my country, and I too, don't always like what it has done and what it does. But, in comparison with all the other countries in the world, I believe we are the best example and the best hope for the world.
The Left, in my opinion, emphasizes the mistakes and bad parts of our history as a nation, and downplays or ignores the good. I, and people who aren't leftists, believe we've been a source of good for the world, despite our shortcomings, because we are composed of human beings, and human beings aren't perfect. All we can do is strive to be better. And I believe, as a nation, we have and continue to do so.
https://townhall.com/columnists/dennisp ... i-n2031140
I could do MANY whataboutisms in response to your Boebert issue, but what's the point?
If you believe that the United States has done more bad than good for humanity as a whole, then you are a leftist. If not, why would you ever vote for someone who does?
Your friendly neighborhood racist. On the waiting list to be a nazi. Designated an honorary 'snowflake'. Trolled by the very best, as well as by BJ. Always typical, unlike others.., Fulminator, Hopelessly in the tank for trump... inappropriate... Flocking himself... Probably a tucking sexist, too... All thought comes from the right wing noise machine(TM)... A clear and present threat to The Future Of Our Democracy.. Doesn't understand anything... Made the trump apologist and enabler playoffs... Heathen bastard... Knows nothing about history... Liar.... don't know much about statistics and polling... Nothing at all about biology... Ignorant Bigot... Potential Future Pariah... Big Nerd... Spiraling

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Re: Are you a leftist or a liberal?

#11 Post by silverscreenselect » Thu Jun 16, 2022 9:55 pm

flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Thu Jun 16, 2022 4:13 pm
OK, I'll counter:
I haven't had time to answer these as succinctly as I'd like.
That's okay. You've got Dennis Prager to do your thinking for you.
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Re: Are you a leftist or a liberal?

#12 Post by earendel » Fri Jun 17, 2022 8:45 am

flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Thu Jun 16, 2022 4:13 pm
OK, I'll counter:
I haven't had time to answer these as succinctly as I'd like. But, hey, this ain't my full-time job. Try and give me some slack (which others won't) and get the gist of what I'm trying to say.
I wasn't really interested in a point-counterpoint discussion, but since you responded in this fashion, I'll riposte.
flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Thu Jun 16, 2022 4:13 pm
Leftists at universities ban, censor, shout down, threaten and or riot when conservative voices are given a rare opportunity to speak.
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/20 ... vative-vo/
Social Media companies like Twitter, Facebook, Youtube, and even Google censor, cancel and shadow ban conservative speech on a frequent basis.
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/20 ... ve-voices/

I can give you many more examples of LEFTIST assaults on free speech, in which THEY ARBITRARILY define what is hate speech. If you support that, then I would say you are a leftist. If you don't, why do you vote for people who condone it?
As I said, hate speech can be defined in a number of ways. My personal opinion is that the answer to bad speech is good speech, not censorship. There are exceptions to that, of course. As to social media censorship, that appears to be more a "whose ox is being gored" issue. Moreover, as private companies they are not bound by the same restrictions as government. Like it or not.
--------------------------
flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Thu Jun 16, 2022 4:13 pm
The left rejects the anti-racist ideal of color-blindness. Colorblind is the liberal racial ideal.
Color-blindness is indeed an ideal. However it hasn't been realized. Until it is, we must strive to make it so.
--------------------------------
The left has apparently adopted the narrative that color-blindness is NOT an ideal. In fact, it's counter-productive.
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/ar ... ve/405037/
Is rejecting the idea that we should strive to judge people by their character and not their skin color striving to achieve the ideal? If you think this is the case, maybe you are a leftist. If not, why do you continue to vote for those that do?
OK, there are two different issues here. First, I do agree that people should be judged by the content of their character. However it is patently clear that that doesn't always happen - Black people shadowed by security guards in stores simply because of their skin color, for instance.

The other issue is for whom I'm voting. For the most part my vote goes to individuals whom I believe would do the best job in the office for which they are running, irrespective of party. But even if we look at the larger picture, the "leftists" in the Democratic party are less in control of the narrative as you might believe. Can you say the same for the "rightists" in the Republican party?
---------------------------------------
flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Thu Jun 16, 2022 4:13 pm
The left supports racial segregation — such as all-black dorms and separate black graduations. Liberals have always advocated racial integration.
Separate facilities (such as all Black fraternities or sororities) are not a bad thing if it is what Blacks want. This includes schools (historically Black colleges and universities). Studies have shown that young black men, especially, do better in segregated classes. But this is by choice, not by fiat.
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So you say color-blindness is indeed an ideal. Does going back to the days of segregation support the ideal of color-blindness, or as MLK put it: Judging people by the content of their character, not the color of their skin?
How would you feel if the white students wanted to do the same thing? Why do you have different standards for people simply because of the amount of melanin in their skin?
https://youtu.be/CRmkw8XBMKk
Apparently, universities are reverting to segregation. Do you believe that's the right way to go? If you do, then I would say you are a leftist. If not, why do you vote for those who do?
It's a matter of semantics. If by "segregation" you mean laws that require separation of the races, then I'm against it. I am also in favor of free association, meaning that if a group chooses to self-segregate, such as a Black fraternity or dorm, that's not a problem.
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flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Thu Jun 16, 2022 4:13 pm
The left has always loathed capitalism. Liberals were always major advocates of capitalism — recognizing that only capitalism has lifted billions of people out of poverty.
I'm all for capitalism, but not unrestrained capitalism. I have no problem with amassing wealth, as long as it isn't done by exploiting others.
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The democrat party has almost nominated an avowed socialist for President on two occasions.
It has elected many self confessed socialists to national office
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_D ... ted_States
(note, for some reason, this list does not include Senator Bernie Sanders, so I question it's thoroughness.)
The democrat party apparently is populated with a majority of people, thanks to university indoctrination, have a POSITIVE view of socialism.
https://www.investors.com/politics/edit ... tic-party/
DO you believe socialism is an acceptable form of government? Do you want the United States to become a socialistic country like Venezuela?
If you do, then you may be a leftist. If not, why does your party (An assumption, I know) keep electing those who describe themselves as socialists?
We are a socialist country, whether you want to believe it or not. Social security, the interstate highway system, heck, even local fire departments, are all" "socialist". Countries like Venezuela are "socialist" in the same way that Germany was "socialist" under Hitler (the "National Socialist Democratic People's Party"). The problem isn't with the economic system, it's with authoritarian leadership.
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flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Thu Jun 16, 2022 4:13 pm
Leftists want to defund the police. No liberal does
Defund the police? No, but perhaps a reallocation of funds so that every incident isn't treated as a call to war.
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This might be a little out of date. But the democrat party loudly and strongly supported the 'Defund the Police' mantra until very recently. It was only when crime exploded in those
democrat cities that actually did it, that they backed off, and, unsurprisingly, tried to shift blame to those evil republicans.
https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2021 ... ng-police/
Reallocation of funds to where? Was that not tried in some places? How did it work out?

Do you support defunding the police? If so, you might be a leftist. Why, in hell, knowing what we do now, would you vote for someone who does?
Again, you ask two different questions. Reallocating funds means more money for non-violent interventions in situations where it's appropriate, treatment for drug users, mental health facilities for those who need them, etc. Some communities have tried this with success, others not so much. As for my voting, on the micro level (city/state) no one ran on a "defund the police" platform. On the macro level (federal), my Representative didn't run on that platform; the candidate for Senate wants to fully fund public safety but also reallocate funds to communities.
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flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Thu Jun 16, 2022 4:13 pm
The left has always been anti-Israel. Liberals have always been fervent supporters of Israel.
I'm not anti-Israel but I am anti- their treatment of Palestinians. Granted, it's hard to do otherwise in that environment.
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It always seems to escape notice from the main stream and international press how badly the Palestinian government treats Israeli citizens. They routinely launch exploding rockets randomly
into the Israli populace, but Israel gets condemned for retaliating, usually specifically targeted to avoid civilian casualties. But that is the status quo.
And unfortunately, there are many anti semites in the democrat party.
https://nypost.com/2021/09/22/the-squad ... yet-again/
I can't resist pointing out that the democrats and the media they control accused Trump of being an anti-semite, despite the fact he has Jewish children and grandchildren, and was the only US President to make good on the long standing promise of moving our Israeli Embassy to Jerusalem.

But you say you are not anti-Israel. Given the fact that they are the only 'democratic' nation in the middle east, that is rather a lukewarm endorsement. If you were anti-israel, I would say you are a leftist. Since you state you are not, you may be a liberal. However, why have several districts elected people who are obviously anti-Israel? And why are they ALL democrats?
You're right, it is a lukewarm endorsement. I understand that it is a difficult situation, but I can't take an uncritical acceptance of everything Israel does. As for what "several districts" have done, I can't speak to that, since I'm not a mind-reader.
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flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Thu Jun 16, 2022 4:13 pm
The left has always held America in contempt. Liberals loved this country. A liberal wrote, “God bless America.” No leftist would write such a song.
I certainly have love for my country, but I don't always love what it does. "God bless America" indeed - the Bible says that we should pray for our nation and its leaders. However I don't think a prayer like that offered by Lauren Boebert is very helpful. She's quoted as using Psalm 109:8 - "May his days be few and may another take his place."
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I love my country, and I too, don't always like what it has done and what it does. But, in comparison with all the other countries in the world, I believe we are the best example and the best hope for the world.
The Left, in my opinion, emphasizes the mistakes and bad parts of our history as a nation, and downplays or ignores the good. I, and people who aren't leftists, believe we've been a source of good for the world, despite our shortcomings, because we are composed of human beings, and human beings aren't perfect. All we can do is strive to be better. And I believe, as a nation, we have and continue to do so.
https://townhall.com/columnists/dennisp ... i-n2031140
I could do MANY whataboutisms in response to your Boebert issue, but what's the point?
If you believe that the United States has done more bad than good for humanity as a whole, then you are a leftist. If not, why would you ever vote for someone who does?
I believe that the United States has done more good than bad. But I also think that we shouldn't forget the bad things, nor should we downplay them. They are part of our history and heritage.

So, again I ask, am I a leftist or a liberal? Let me answer this for you - I'm somewhere in-between, all over the map, you might say. It all depends on the issue. It's akin to me asking you, are you a MAGA or a conservative? I suspect you'd say the same thing - it depends upon the issue.
"Elen sila lumenn omentielvo...A star shines on the hour of our meeting."

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Beebs52
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Re: Are you a leftist or a liberal?

#13 Post by Beebs52 » Fri Jun 17, 2022 11:41 am

Ear, I agree with you. Yep.
Well, then

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Re: Are you a leftist or a liberal?

#14 Post by flockofseagulls104 » Fri Jun 17, 2022 11:57 am

I am a skeptic.
Your friendly neighborhood racist. On the waiting list to be a nazi. Designated an honorary 'snowflake'. Trolled by the very best, as well as by BJ. Always typical, unlike others.., Fulminator, Hopelessly in the tank for trump... inappropriate... Flocking himself... Probably a tucking sexist, too... All thought comes from the right wing noise machine(TM)... A clear and present threat to The Future Of Our Democracy.. Doesn't understand anything... Made the trump apologist and enabler playoffs... Heathen bastard... Knows nothing about history... Liar.... don't know much about statistics and polling... Nothing at all about biology... Ignorant Bigot... Potential Future Pariah... Big Nerd... Spiraling

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Re: Are you a leftist or a liberal?

#15 Post by Beebs52 » Fri Jun 17, 2022 12:19 pm

flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Fri Jun 17, 2022 11:57 am
I am a skeptic.
You can be a skeptic and non-identified liberal/leftist/conservative, bwahaha. Sorry, I just had to laugh at my statement, it's so INCLUSIVE!
Well, then

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