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The True Lesson From Uvalde
Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2022 9:32 am
by Spock
HT-to Spike Cohen on Twitter
>>>"We have learned a lesson from the horrific tragedy in Uvalde:
Government will mandate that your children be vulnerable, hold you back at gunpoint while they are murdered, and then try to lie about it.
And then they'll tell you that it all happened because you own a rifle."<<<<
Re: The True Lesson From Uvalde
Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2022 9:50 am
by tlynn78
And don't talk about the 50 injured/9 killed in Chicago last weekend.
Re: The True Lesson From Uvalde
Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2022 10:09 am
by Bob Juch
tlynn78 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 03, 2022 9:50 am
And don't talk about the 50 injured/9 killed in Chicago last weekend.
Murder rates are, on average, 40% higher in the 25 states Donald Trump won in the last presidential election compared to those that voted for Joe Biden. In addition, murder rates in many of these red states dwarf those in blue states like New York, California, and Massachusetts. And finally, many of the states with the worst murder rates--like Mississippi, Kentucky, Alabama, South Carolina, and Arkansas--are ones that few would describe as urban. Only two of America's top 100 cities in population are located in these high murder rate states. And not a single one of the top ten murder rate states registers in the top 15 for population density.
Among the 50 states, murder rates were often well above the national average in many Republican-controlled states and cities. Jacksonville, with 176 homicides and a murder rate (19.776) more than three times that of New York City (5.94), has a Republican mayor. Tulsa (19.64) and Oklahoma City (11.16) have Republican mayors in a Republican state and have a murder rate that dwarfs that of Los Angeles (6.74). Lexington's Republican mayor saw record homicides in 2020 and 2021, with a murder rate (10.61) nearly twice that of New York City. Bakersfield (11.91) and Fresno (14.09) each have Republican mayors and murder rates far higher than either San Francisco or Los Angeles.
Re: The True Lesson From Uvalde
Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2022 10:31 am
by BackInTex
Bob Juch wrote: ↑Fri Jun 03, 2022 10:09 am
tlynn78 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 03, 2022 9:50 am
And don't talk about the 50 injured/9 killed in Chicago last weekend.
Murder rates are, on average, 40% higher in the 25 states Donald Trump won in the last presidential election compared to those that voted for Joe Biden. In addition, murder rates in many of these red states dwarf those in blue states like New York, California, and Massachusetts. And finally, many of the states with the worst murder rates--like Mississippi, Kentucky, Alabama, South Carolina, and Arkansas--are ones that few would describe as urban. Only two of America's top 100 cities in population are located in these high murder rate states. And not a single one of the top ten murder rate states registers in the top 15 for population density.
Among the 50 states, murder rates were often well above the national average in many Republican-controlled states and cities. Jacksonville, with 176 homicides and a murder rate (19.776) more than three times that of New York City (5.94), has a Republican mayor. Tulsa (19.64) and Oklahoma City (11.16) have Republican mayors in a Republican state and have a murder rate that dwarfs that of Los Angeles (6.74). Lexington's Republican mayor saw record homicides in 2020 and 2021, with a murder rate (10.61) nearly twice that of New York City. Bakersfield (11.91) and Fresno (14.09) each have Republican mayors and murder rates far higher than either San Francisco or Los Angeles.
O.K. I'll go there. Sort by racial demographics. We already have Demographics by Party that may or may not align.
Re: The True Lesson From Uvalde
Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2022 11:58 am
by Bob78164
BackInTex wrote: ↑Fri Jun 03, 2022 10:31 am
Bob Juch wrote: ↑Fri Jun 03, 2022 10:09 am
tlynn78 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 03, 2022 9:50 am
And don't talk about the 50 injured/9 killed in Chicago last weekend.
Murder rates are, on average, 40% higher in the 25 states Donald Trump won in the last presidential election compared to those that voted for Joe Biden. In addition, murder rates in many of these red states dwarf those in blue states like New York, California, and Massachusetts. And finally, many of the states with the worst murder rates--like Mississippi, Kentucky, Alabama, South Carolina, and Arkansas--are ones that few would describe as urban. Only two of America's top 100 cities in population are located in these high murder rate states. And not a single one of the top ten murder rate states registers in the top 15 for population density.
Among the 50 states, murder rates were often well above the national average in many Republican-controlled states and cities. Jacksonville, with 176 homicides and a murder rate (19.776) more than three times that of New York City (5.94), has a Republican mayor. Tulsa (19.64) and Oklahoma City (11.16) have Republican mayors in a Republican state and have a murder rate that dwarfs that of Los Angeles (6.74). Lexington's Republican mayor saw record homicides in 2020 and 2021, with a murder rate (10.61) nearly twice that of New York City. Bakersfield (11.91) and Fresno (14.09) each have Republican mayors and murder rates far higher than either San Francisco or Los Angeles.
O.K. I'll go there. Sort by racial demographics. We already have Demographics by Party that may or may not align.
Are you honestly suggesting that race . . . not economic status or gun availability but race . . . is the reason for this disparity? --Bob
Re: The True Lesson From Uvalde
Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2022 12:54 pm
by Weyoun
Bob, I think it’s something more pernicious.
The argument is that what happens to Black people doesn’t count, because they don’t live around Black people.
The actual chance of any of them being attacked in their home is incredibly low, but the fact that it’s a much higher risk for a 19 year old black male to get shot isn’t relevant to them, because they are not black and they don’t have black friends or neighbors.
A major issue it with the gun debate is that there’s a huge golf in the life experience, and that’s what people worry about, between large groups of people.
Our Dakota/Montana contingent could care less if a black guy gets shot, which is why they keep bringing those situations up as the “real” problem that distorts the numbers in favor of greater gun control.
Re: The True Lesson From Uvalde
Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2022 1:17 pm
by BackInTex
Weyoun wrote: ↑Fri Jun 03, 2022 12:54 pm
Bob, I think it’s something more pernicious.
The argument is that what happens to Black people doesn’t count, because they don’t live around Black people.
The actual chance of any of them being attacked in their home is incredibly low, but the fact that it’s a much higher risk for a 19 year old black male to get shot isn’t relevant to them, because they are not black and they don’t have black friends or neighbors.
A major issue it with the gun debate is that there’s a huge golf in the life experience, and that’s what people worry about, between large groups of people.
Our Dakota/Montana contingent could care less if a black guy gets shot, which is why they keep bringing those situations up as the “real” problem that distorts the numbers in favor of greater gun control.
Hey arogant A**hole! Before I moved, 2 of four families on my cul-de-sac were black. My current neighbors are black. I have good and close friends that are black.
But, I also have personally known three, two closely (as in dated one for a brief while) people murdered by blacks, brutally so. The only person I know murdered by a white person was a domestic murder/suidcide.
And for Bobbie, I'm responding to BJ who seems to be implying its political affiliation. While demographics of murderers (and murdered) heavily tilt towards the black population I do not think it a race (or skin color) issue. It is the culture and values of those who commit the crimes (and of many who become victims as well) that drive the numbers.
Re: The True Lesson From Uvalde
Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2022 1:21 pm
by BackInTex
Weyoun wrote: ↑Fri Jun 03, 2022 12:54 pm
Our Dakota/Montana contingent could care less if a black guy gets shot, which is why they keep bringing those situations up as the “real” problem that distorts the numbers in favor of greater gun control.
Nobody is bringing up those situations to justify or minimize anything. They only bring them up to show the hyprocisy of the left's outrage about a few shootings. You and your ilk only show outrage when it's news worhy. Sort of like only reporting plane crashes and crying about how unsafe flying is because 240 people died that one day of the year, but you're fine with driving cars where 240 people die every day in cars.
Re: The True Lesson From Uvalde
Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2022 1:38 pm
by silverscreenselect
BackInTex wrote: ↑Fri Jun 03, 2022 1:21 pm
They only bring them up to show the hyprocisy of the left's outrage about a few shootings. You and your ilk only show outrage when it's news worthy.
You've got it backwards. The left has been outraged about gun violence for two decades now. The only problem is that when it happens in largely black or brown inner cities, the outrage falls on deaf ears of the public at large. Or when someone does comment on it, it's only to say, there go liberals wanting to take everyone's guns away. AOC included recommendations for gun control measures on her website when she first campaigned for office, and she's been doing so ever since. Lucy McBath, who is my Congresswoman until January 3, was elected in large part because of her stance on gun control (her son was killed in a drive-by shooting). So, there's plenty of outrage and it's been expressed consistently this entire century. It's just that nobody ever takes notice until incidents like we're seeing now.
Re: The True Lesson From Uvalde
Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2022 1:42 pm
by BackInTex
silverscreenselect wrote: ↑Fri Jun 03, 2022 1:38 pm
BackInTex wrote: ↑Fri Jun 03, 2022 1:21 pm
They only bring them up to show the hyprocisy of the left's outrage about a few shootings. You and your ilk only show outrage when it's news worthy.
You've got it backwards. The left has been outraged about gun violence for two decades now. The only problem is that when it happens in largely black or brown inner cities, the outrage falls on deaf ears of the public at large. Or when someone does comment on it, it's only to say, there go liberals wanting to take everyone's guns away. AOC included recommendations for gun control measures on her website when she first campaigned for office, and she's been doing so ever since. Lucy McBath, who is my Congresswoman until January 3, was elected in large part because of her stance on gun control (her son was killed in a drive-by shooting). So, there's plenty of outrage and it's been expressed consistently this entire century. It's just that nobody ever takes notice until incidents like we're seeing now.
Wrong, but at least you're comfortable there.
Re: The True Lesson From Uvalde
Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2022 2:08 pm
by Beebs52
Does anyone really think gangbangers (drivebys, Chicago et al) and drug groups will be affected by eliminating gun access? I agree on some of suggestions re background checks, red flag laws, etc,mental health reinforcement for sure, but as horrendous and disturbing as the evil crazy people shootings are, yes they are, we all have kids, grandkids, people we love, the libs don't have any definitive answer either.
Re: The True Lesson From Uvalde
Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2022 2:25 pm
by Beebs52
https://www.fbi.gov/file-repository/pre ... 3.pdf/view
FBI thing, not a lot of majorly helpful stuff, but I tell ya we may have to institute a matriarchy dudes.
Re: The True Lesson From Uvalde
Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2022 2:59 pm
by Bob Juch
Beebs52 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 03, 2022 2:08 pm
Does anyone really think gangbangers (drivebys, Chicago et al) and drug groups will be affected by eliminating gun access? I agree on some of suggestions re background checks, red flag laws, etc,mental health reinforcement for sure, but as horrendous and disturbing as the evil crazy people shootings are, yes they are, we all have kids, grandkids, people we love, the libs don't have any definitive answer either.
We can't eliminate gun access, but we can put a dent in it. If guns weren't freely available in Hammond, Indiana, for example, there'd be a lot fewer guns in Chicago.
How many of the Chicago shootings were with an AR-15?
Re: The True Lesson From Uvalde
Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2022 2:59 pm
by Bob Juch
Re: The True Lesson From Uvalde
Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2022 3:04 pm
by franktangredi
Beebs52 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 03, 2022 2:08 pm
Does anyone really think gangbangers (drivebys, Chicago et al) and drug groups will be affected by eliminating gun access? I agree on some of suggestions re background checks, red flag laws, etc,mental health reinforcement for sure, but as horrendous and disturbing as the evil crazy people shootings are, yes they are, we all have kids, grandkids, people we love, the libs don't have any definitive answer either.
Anybody on either side who thinks they have a 'definitive answer' is delusional. We don't need a definitive answer. We need people who are willing to discuss - rationally and respectfully - the various imperfect answers, instead of stonewalling all discussion.
Re: The True Lesson From Uvalde
Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2022 3:21 pm
by Bob Juch
franktangredi wrote: ↑Fri Jun 03, 2022 3:04 pm
Beebs52 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 03, 2022 2:08 pm
Does anyone really think gangbangers (drivebys, Chicago et al) and drug groups will be affected by eliminating gun access? I agree on some of suggestions re background checks, red flag laws, etc,mental health reinforcement for sure, but as horrendous and disturbing as the evil crazy people shootings are, yes they are, we all have kids, grandkids, people we love, the libs don't have any definitive answer either.
Anybody on either side who thinks they have a 'definitive answer' is delusional. We don't need a definitive answer. We need people who are willing to discuss - rationally and respectfully - the various imperfect answers, instead of stonewalling all discussion.
I'd rather implement half-measures than no measures.
Re: The True Lesson From Uvalde
Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2022 4:17 pm
by Beebs52
I agree. There will never be a definitive measure to stop evil insanity. Measures, not half, can be agreed upon.
Re: The True Lesson From Uvalde
Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2022 4:40 pm
by Bob78164
Beebs52 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 03, 2022 4:17 pm
I agree. There will never be a definitive measure to stop evil insanity. Measures, not half, can be agreed upon.
Apparently not. Seven days ago, Rep. Chris Jacobs (the first-term Republican who represents the Buffalo suburbs) came out in favor of an assault weapons ban and a ban on high-capacity magazines. He quickly learned that there is no room in the Republican Party for those views. Today, Rep. Jacobs abandoned his reelection bid. --Bob
Re: The True Lesson From Uvalde
Posted: Sat Jun 04, 2022 8:35 am
by themanintheseersuckersuit
Armed law enforcement waiting outside an elementary school for the screaming to stop is not a good look.
Re: The True Lesson From Uvalde
Posted: Sun Jun 05, 2022 8:03 am
by Weyoun
BackInTex wrote: ↑Fri Jun 03, 2022 1:21 pm
Weyoun wrote: ↑Fri Jun 03, 2022 12:54 pm
Our Dakota/Montana contingent could care less if a black guy gets shot, which is why they keep bringing those situations up as the “real” problem that distorts the numbers in favor of greater gun control.
Nobody is bringing up those situations to justify or minimize anything. They only bring them up to show the hyprocisy of the left's outrage about a few shootings. You and your ilk only show outrage when it's news worhy. Sort of like only reporting plane crashes and crying about how unsafe flying is because 240 people died that one day of the year, but you're fine with driving cars where 240 people die every day in cars.
Where have I said those deaths don’t matter?
I think they do, because those are actually the deaths I see as part of my job.
Please show me where I have said otherwise.
If *you* cared about those deaths you would want something done, but you don’t. You have calculated that the tradeoff of having easy access to weapons to defend your home against Joe Biden and (presumably black) criminals is worth the death of many black youths.
In fact that’s probably considered a “win win” for the Dakota/Montana wing of the board.
Re: The True Lesson From Uvalde
Posted: Sun Jun 05, 2022 8:36 am
by BackInTex
Weyoun wrote: ↑Sun Jun 05, 2022 8:03 am
BackInTex wrote: ↑Fri Jun 03, 2022 1:21 pm
Weyoun wrote: ↑Fri Jun 03, 2022 12:54 pm
Our Dakota/Montana contingent could care less if a black guy gets shot, which is why they keep bringing those situations up as the “real” problem that distorts the numbers in favor of greater gun control.
Nobody is bringing up those situations to justify or minimize anything. They only bring them up to show the hyprocisy of the left's outrage about a few shootings. You and your ilk only show outrage when it's news worhy. Sort of like only reporting plane crashes and crying about how unsafe flying is because 240 people died that one day of the year, but you're fine with driving cars where 240 people die every day in cars.
Where have I said those deaths don’t matter?
I think they do, because those are actually the deaths I see as part of my job.
Please show me where I have said otherwise.
If *you* cared about those deaths you would want something done, but you don’t. You have calculated that the tradeoff of having easy access to weapons to defend your home against Joe Biden and (presumably black) criminals is worth the death of many black youths.
In fact that’s probably considered a “win win” for the Dakota/Montana wing of the board.
Do you have a reading comprehension problem? I never mentioned anything about what you've said or haven't said about the Chicago (as an example) deaths. I DID say you and your ilk don't bring them up as part of the gun control issue. Just the "plane crash" shootings.
And I do care about those deaths, and I do want something done, but again your side fights the rhetoric as racist because they know that if what I think needs to be done is done, and successful, they lose their control over those votes. We need a cultural awakenning in the dependent communities (I won't say they are only black, but yes, mostly). Obama wasted his influence by continually blaming whites and playing minorities as victims, rather than emphasizing what he and Michelle had accomplished and how it was thier values that helped them accomplish it. But he wants votes, not an independent and thinking minority community.
Re: The True Lesson From Uvalde
Posted: Sun Jun 05, 2022 9:38 am
by tlynn78
BackInTex wrote: ↑Sun Jun 05, 2022 8:36 am
Weyoun wrote: ↑Sun Jun 05, 2022 8:03 am
BackInTex wrote: ↑Fri Jun 03, 2022 1:21 pm
Nobody is bringing up those situations to justify or minimize anything. They only bring them up to show the hyprocisy of the left's outrage about a few shootings. You and your ilk only show outrage when it's news worhy. Sort of like only reporting plane crashes and crying about how unsafe flying is because 240 people died that one day of the year, but you're fine with driving cars where 240 people die every day in cars.
Where have I said those deaths don’t matter?
I think they do, because those are actually the deaths I see as part of my job.
Please show me where I have said otherwise.
If *you* cared about those deaths you would want something done, but you don’t. You have calculated that the tradeoff of having easy access to weapons to defend your home against Joe Biden and (presumably black) criminals is worth the death of many black youths.
In fact that’s probably considered a “win win” for the Dakota/Montana wing of the board.
Do you have a reading comprehension problem? I never mentioned anything about what you've said or haven't said about the Chicago (as an example) deaths. I DID say you and your ilk don't bring them up as part of the gun control issue. Just the "plane crash" shootings.
And I do care about those deaths, and I do want something done, but again your side fights the rhetoric as racist because they know that if what I think needs to be done is done, and successful, they lose their control over those votes. We need a cultural awakenning in the dependent communities (I won't say they are only black, but yes, mostly). Obama wasted his influence by continually blaming whites and playing minorities as victims, rather than emphasizing what he and Michelle had accomplished and how it was thier values that helped them accomplish it. But he wants votes, not an independent and thinking minority community.
Spot on.
Re: The True Lesson From Uvalde
Posted: Sun Jun 05, 2022 11:12 am
by jarnon
BackInTex wrote: ↑Fri Jun 03, 2022 1:21 pm
You and your ilk only show outrage when it's news worthy.
I don't know what drives this common mistaken belief. I posted this a few days ago:
jarnon wrote: ↑Wed Jun 01, 2022 9:16 pm
In Philadelphia, 44 people were shot and 15 died over the holiday weekend. It's the cover story in today's
Inquirer. Nobody thinks it's business as usual.
Philadelphia's gun violence crisis is reported daily on the news. It's addressed at every gun control rally. Polls report it's one of voters' top concerns, and politicians are asked about it constantly.
Re: The True Lesson From Uvalde
Posted: Sun Jun 05, 2022 11:13 am
by jarnon
franktangredi wrote: ↑Fri Jun 03, 2022 3:04 pm
Anybody on either side who thinks they have a 'definitive answer' is delusional. We don't need a definitive answer. We need people who are willing to discuss - rationally and respectfully - the various imperfect answers, instead of stonewalling all discussion.
themanintheseersuckersuit wrote: ↑Sat Jun 04, 2022 8:35 am
Armed law enforcement waiting outside an elementary school for the screaming to stop is not a good look.
Rec both of these
Re: The True Lesson From Uvalde
Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2022 7:10 pm
by themanintheseersuckersuit