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Re: School shooting, bombing etc thread
Posted: Mon May 30, 2022 2:02 pm
by Spock
Weyoun wrote: ↑Mon May 30, 2022 1:57 pm
A bit harsh, Spock.
I understand that you’re an evil person based on the fact that you blithely ignore the death of children because you want unfettered access to guns.
However wishing illness on my child seems to be a bit beyond the pale even for you.
So, how much research did your arrogant ass do on the long-term effects of the Covid vaccines on children before you put them in your kids?
For a Frickin' disease that would not affect them.
Re: School shooting, bombing etc thread
Posted: Mon May 30, 2022 2:06 pm
by Weyoun
Spock wrote: ↑Mon May 30, 2022 2:02 pm
Weyoun wrote: ↑Mon May 30, 2022 1:57 pm
A bit harsh, Spock.
I understand that you’re an evil person based on the fact that you blithely ignore the death of children because you want unfettered access to guns.
However wishing illness on my child seems to be a bit beyond the pale even for you.
So, how much research did your arrogant ass do on the long-term effects of the Covid vaccines on children before you put them in your kids?
How much research did your fascist bootlick ass do before suggesting that grade school kids could jump out of windows if an adult with an assault rifle starts shooting them?
(Sucks for the kids on the second floor)
Re: School shooting, bombing etc thread
Posted: Mon May 30, 2022 2:09 pm
by jarnon
flockofseagulls104 wrote: ↑Mon May 30, 2022 1:36 pm
The Good Doctor has apparently used up their time (1 post) and voted no on the main bill. They still can comment and vote on any amendments to the main bill. As usual, not following the procedure that was outlined.
I don't think Spock has added an amendment, but commented on what should be included in the Guardian program. Also earns a reprimand for innappropriate language. I think that will count as his time on the main bill.
I think Weyoun did suggest an amendment: Pay for the Guardian program with taxes on gun licenses and insurance. I'd add transfer tax when guns change hands, tax on ammo, etc.
We already have plenty of taxes on specific goods: cars, petrol, liquor, tobacco, pot, soft drinks (in Philadelphia), fracking (except in Pennsylvania - why not?); let's add guns.
Also, remove the gun makers' immunity from lawsuits, provided that the proceeds are used for gun safety programs with a proven record. Let the CDC study what measures actually prevent student deaths. Don't line lawyers' pockets or fund wasteful government programs.
Re: School shooting, bombing etc thread
Posted: Mon May 30, 2022 2:24 pm
by Spock
Weyoun>>>"How much research did your fascist bootlick ass do before suggesting that grade school kids could jump out of windows if an adult with an assault rifle starts shooting them?<<<<
I have thought about it a lot. Design (new) schools with one level with every classroom having an outside wall/window point. This gives more options for all sorts of emergencies including fires.
It may not help the specific classroom once a shooter is present there, but it aids evacuation for all other rooms. Plus, once the police know which room, they can get at the shooter from outside the school as well as inside.
I am undecided about windows in the classroom door, but assuming they are there-the door location at the end of a long wall in the classroom is very important as it is harder for the shooter to see much of the classroom.
I had figured out which corner the door should be in based on the assumption of a right-handed shooter (but I forget which now and I don't want to do the thought exercise right now.)
Better for kids to jump from a 2nd floor than get shot.
Re: School shooting, bombing etc thread
Posted: Mon May 30, 2022 2:30 pm
by flockofseagulls104
I think this is turning out to be an exact re-creation of what happens in Congress.
If jarnon or the good doctor want to add an amendment, please write it up and submit it. Use some official font to distinguish it.
AMENDMENT 1: xxxxxxx
Spock and Doc, please take your disputes to a new thread. I have hijacked this one. Don't make me call the Sergeant At Arms.
Re: School shooting, bombing etc thread
Posted: Mon May 30, 2022 2:35 pm
by Spock
I just noticed this one. See my longer above.
Weyoun>>>"How much research did your fascist bootlick ass do before suggesting that grade school kids could jump out of windows if an adult with an assault rifle starts shooting them?"<<<<
Grade-school kids can build 3-story treehouses-I am guessing they can climb out a window.
Re: School shooting, bombing etc thread
Posted: Mon May 30, 2022 2:37 pm
by flockofseagulls104
Spock wrote: ↑Mon May 30, 2022 2:35 pm
I just noticed this one. See my longer above.
Weyoun>>>"How much research did your fascist bootlick ass do before suggesting that grade school kids could jump out of windows if an adult with an assault rifle starts shooting them?"<<<<
Grade-school kids can build 3-story treehouses-I am guessing they can climb out a window.
Sergeant - Please report to the floor.
Re: School shooting, bombing etc thread
Posted: Mon May 30, 2022 2:39 pm
by flockofseagulls104
Oh, BTW, I will even look at the stalker's posts in this thread as long as they behave and play by the rules.
Re: School shooting, bombing etc thread
Posted: Mon May 30, 2022 2:42 pm
by a1mamacat
Beebs, it was a good effort, but sadly has been hi-jacked to make political points…from both sides.
Re: School shooting, bombing etc thread
Posted: Mon May 30, 2022 3:33 pm
by Beebs52
a1mamacat wrote: ↑Mon May 30, 2022 2:42 pm
Beebs, it was a good effort, but sadly has been hi-jacked to make political points…from both sides.
Eh, you know.
Re: School shooting, bombing etc thread
Posted: Mon May 30, 2022 4:15 pm
by flockofseagulls104
I have made it into exactly what beebs intended, I think, if we really do it.
Explain your solution, put it up as an amendment and we all vote on it. Let's see if we can do what Congress should do.
What did beebs really expect from this thread except more arguing past each other? If we do this, at least there's a structure to it.
Re: School shooting, bombing etc thread
Posted: Mon May 30, 2022 4:21 pm
by BackInTex
kroxquo wrote: ↑Sun May 29, 2022 9:44 pm
Let's open up tort laws to make gun manufacturers liable.
Can we include tort laws for doctor's who operate on and heal wounded gang-bangers who go on to kill others? Or psychiatrists whose patients commit murder? Seems reasonable to me. What about the automobile manufactures who build the transportation mechanism for mass shootings? After all, if they can't get to the school, the guns are useless. And food manufactureres. What about them? If the food manufactures didn't make food, the mass shooteres would all die. Don't they hold some accountability in all this?
Re: School shooting, bombing etc thread
Posted: Mon May 30, 2022 4:31 pm
by Bob Juch
Heather Cox Richardson
May 27, 2022 (Friday)
The timeline for the Uvalde massacre is becoming clearer.
After shooting his grandmother in the face and taking her truck, the gunman got to Robb Elementary School at 11:28 Tuesday morning and started firing into the school windows. A police officer responded to a call about the shooter but drove by him, instead mistaking a teacher for the suspect. The gunman got into the school through a door that had been propped open, and began his rampage down a hallway, ending up at about 11:30 in two joined fourth-grade classrooms, 111 and 112, with students and two teachers.
He apparently closed and locked the door. He shot the teachers first, and then the students.
Local police responded, and several ran into the school. Two were wounded slightly at the doorway when bullets came through it. By noon, there were 19 police officers in the school and many others outside. Parents were gathering, urging the officers to charge the shooter. Officers warned them not to interfere with an ongoing investigation, arresting at least one and pinning another to the ground. By 12:15, a tactical team from the U.S. Border Patrol arrived at the school.
But there appears to have been confusion about who was in charge. Uvalde is a town of about 16,000 people, and it has a six-officer department to oversee eight schools, as well as a city police force with a SWAT team. The first people on the scene were city officers, but Pedro Arredondo, the chief of police for the Uvalde Consolidated Independent School District, took charge.
Arredondo apparently ordered the officers not to rush the classroom despite the sporadic gunfire coming from it. The head of the Texas state police, Steven C.McCraw, said today that, despite decades of active shooter trainings that call for rushing a gunman, Arredondo decided that the gunman had barricaded himself in the classroom and was no longer an active shooter, and thus there were no children at risk. He decided to wait for more equipment and more officers to arrive before attempting to break into the room.
At least two children trapped in the classroom with the shooter called 911 at least eight times during the siege to beg for help. “Please send the police now,” one girl whispered on one of her several calls.
At about 12:50, the Border Patrol officers got a key from a janitor, unlocked the door, stormed the room, and killed the gunman.
The gunman was in the school for 78 minutes before law enforcement officers went in after him. He killed 21 people and wounded 17 more.
In a press conference today, McCraw called the delay in rushing the gunman “the wrong decision.” Asked what he would say to the parents, he responded: “I don’t have anything to say to the parents, other than what happened. We are not here to defend what happened, we are here to report the facts…. If I thought it would help, I would apologize.”
The events in Uvalde have dealt a devastating blow to the theory that a good guy with a gun will prevent gun violence.
A Politico/Morning consult poll out Wednesday showed “huge support” for gun regulations. It showed that 88% of voters strongly or somewhat support background checks on all gun sales, while only 8% strongly or somewhat oppose such checks. That’s a net approval of +80.
Preventing gun sales to people who have been reported to police as dangerous by a mental health provider is supported by 84% of voters while only 9% oppose it, a net approval of +75.
Seventy-seven percent of voters support requiring guns to be stored in a safe storage unit, while only 15% oppose such a requirement, a net approval of +62.
A national database for gun sales gets 75% approval and 18% disapproval, a net approval rate of +57.
Banning assault-style weapons like the AR-15 has an approval rate of 67% of voters while only 25% disapprove. That’s a net approval of +42.
And fifty-four percent of voters approve of arming teachers with concealed weapons, while only 34% oppose it, a net approval of +20.
And yet, their opposition to regulation and their embrace of cowboy individualism means Republicans have made it clear they will not entertain any measures to regulate gun ownership, except perhaps the last one, which teachers, parents, students, and the two largest teachers’ unions all overwhelmingly oppose.
The party appears to be doubling down on their support for expanded gun rights, trying to convince gun owners that the regulations under which we lived until 2004 will somehow end gun ownership altogether. Today, Texas Senator Ted Cruz seemed to be trying to distract the popular fury over the massacre with an argument that schools need fewer doors, a nonsensical argument that seemed designed to derail the public conversation as people go down rabbit holes talking about fire safety and extended school campuses, gym class, and recess and murderers who simply pull fire alarms.
Re: School shooting, bombing etc thread
Posted: Mon May 30, 2022 5:58 pm
by flockofseagulls104
Bob Juch wrote: ↑Mon May 30, 2022 4:31 pm
Heather Cox Richardson
May 27, 2022 (Friday)
The timeline for the Uvalde massacre is becoming clearer.
After shooting his grandmother in the face and taking her truck, the gunman got to Robb Elementary School at 11:28 Tuesday morning and started firing into the school windows. A police officer responded to a call about the shooter but drove by him, instead mistaking a teacher for the suspect. The gunman got into the school through a door that had been propped open, and began his rampage down a hallway, ending up at about 11:30 in two joined fourth-grade classrooms, 111 and 112, with students and two teachers.
He apparently closed and locked the door. He shot the teachers first, and then the students.
Local police responded, and several ran into the school. Two were wounded slightly at the doorway when bullets came through it. By noon, there were 19 police officers in the school and many others outside. Parents were gathering, urging the officers to charge the shooter. Officers warned them not to interfere with an ongoing investigation, arresting at least one and pinning another to the ground. By 12:15, a tactical team from the U.S. Border Patrol arrived at the school.
But there appears to have been confusion about who was in charge. Uvalde is a town of about 16,000 people, and it has a six-officer department to oversee eight schools, as well as a city police force with a SWAT team. The first people on the scene were city officers, but Pedro Arredondo, the chief of police for the Uvalde Consolidated Independent School District, took charge.
Arredondo apparently ordered the officers not to rush the classroom despite the sporadic gunfire coming from it. The head of the Texas state police, Steven C.McCraw, said today that, despite decades of active shooter trainings that call for rushing a gunman, Arredondo decided that the gunman had barricaded himself in the classroom and was no longer an active shooter, and thus there were no children at risk. He decided to wait for more equipment and more officers to arrive before attempting to break into the room.
At least two children trapped in the classroom with the shooter called 911 at least eight times during the siege to beg for help. “Please send the police now,” one girl whispered on one of her several calls.
At about 12:50, the Border Patrol officers got a key from a janitor, unlocked the door, stormed the room, and killed the gunman.
The gunman was in the school for 78 minutes before law enforcement officers went in after him. He killed 21 people and wounded 17 more.
In a press conference today, McCraw called the delay in rushing the gunman “the wrong decision.” Asked what he would say to the parents, he responded: “I don’t have anything to say to the parents, other than what happened. We are not here to defend what happened, we are here to report the facts…. If I thought it would help, I would apologize.”
The events in Uvalde have dealt a devastating blow to the theory that a good guy with a gun will prevent gun violence.
A Politico/Morning consult poll out Wednesday showed “huge support” for gun regulations. It showed that 88% of voters strongly or somewhat support background checks on all gun sales, while only 8% strongly or somewhat oppose such checks. That’s a net approval of +80.
Preventing gun sales to people who have been reported to police as dangerous by a mental health provider is supported by 84% of voters while only 9% oppose it, a net approval of +75.
Seventy-seven percent of voters support requiring guns to be stored in a safe storage unit, while only 15% oppose such a requirement, a net approval of +62.
A national database for gun sales gets 75% approval and 18% disapproval, a net approval rate of +57.
Banning assault-style weapons like the AR-15 has an approval rate of 67% of voters while only 25% disapprove. That’s a net approval of +42.
And fifty-four percent of voters approve of arming teachers with concealed weapons, while only 34% oppose it, a net approval of +20.
And yet, their opposition to regulation and their embrace of cowboy individualism means Republicans have made it clear they will not entertain any measures to regulate gun ownership, except perhaps the last one, which teachers, parents, students, and the two largest teachers’ unions all overwhelmingly oppose.
The party appears to be doubling down on their support for expanded gun rights, trying to convince gun owners that the regulations under which we lived until 2004 will somehow end gun ownership altogether. Today, Texas Senator Ted Cruz seemed to be trying to distract the popular fury over the massacre with an argument that schools need fewer doors, a nonsensical argument that seemed designed to derail the public conversation as people go down rabbit holes talking about fire safety and extended school campuses, gym class, and recess and murderers who simply pull fire alarms.
Stop the pontificating and propose an amendment to the bill to stop school shootings I've started. Tell us what YOU would do. No one really cares what some pundit on the internet says. There will ALWAYS be another one who says the exact opposite.
NO MORE PONTIFICATING. SHIT OR GET OFF THE POT!
Re: School shooting, bombing etc thread
Posted: Mon May 30, 2022 6:01 pm
by flockofseagulls104
BB-1 Bored Congress Bill 1 - Stopping Mass Shootings at Schools
Federal funding for a nationwide Guardian Program to protect all our schools. If an individual state establishes a mandatory program that fits the standards of Florida's Guardian program, this Bored Congress will find a bunch of porkbarrel programs to discontinue, redundant funding to nix, stupid money giveaways to stop and shut down some of the billions of dollars of fraud to fund a pool of money to give to that state to help implement their Guardian program.
Re: School shooting, bombing etc thread
Posted: Mon May 30, 2022 6:30 pm
by Bob Juch
flockofseagulls104 wrote: ↑Mon May 30, 2022 6:01 pm
BB-1 Bored Congress Bill 1 - Stopping Mass Shootings at Schools
Federal funding for a nationwide Guardian Program to protect all our schools. If an individual state establishes a mandatory program that fits the standards of Florida's Guardian program, this Bored Congress will find a bunch of porkbarrel programs to discontinue, redundant funding to nix, stupid money giveaways to stop and shut down some of the billions of dollars of fraud to fund a pool of money to give to that state to help implement their Guardian program.
The Guardian in Texas was out to lunch.
Re: School shooting, bombing etc thread
Posted: Mon May 30, 2022 6:32 pm
by Bob Juch
flockofseagulls104 wrote: ↑Mon May 30, 2022 5:58 pm
Stop the pontificating and propose an amendment to the bill to stop school shootings I've started. Tell us what YOU would do. No one really cares what some pundit on the internet says. There will ALWAYS be another one who says the exact opposite.
NO MORE PONTIFICATING. SHIT OR GET OFF THE POT!
I've told you what I'd do. Are you blind or just stupid?
Re: School shooting, bombing etc thread
Posted: Mon May 30, 2022 7:22 pm
by flockofseagulls104
Bob Juch wrote: ↑Mon May 30, 2022 6:32 pm
flockofseagulls104 wrote: ↑Mon May 30, 2022 5:58 pm
Stop the pontificating and propose an amendment to the bill to stop school shootings I've started. Tell us what YOU would do. No one really cares what some pundit on the internet says. There will ALWAYS be another one who says the exact opposite.
NO MORE PONTIFICATING. SHIT OR GET OFF THE POT!
I've told you what I'd do. Are you blind or just stupid?
Go back to first page and read forward. If you don't want to participate, go to another thread. Thanks
Re: School shooting, bombing etc thread
Posted: Mon May 30, 2022 7:39 pm
by flockofseagulls104
OK, to show how it can be done, I will offer my amendment to the bill.
AMENDMENT1 - flock
No part of this bill can in any way conflict with the 2nd Amendment of the Constitution. Otherwise, it will be challenged as Unconstitutional by those who oppose the entire bill. The original bill is ONLY to provide funding to those states that have authorized the implementation of a program based on the Guardian Program currently in effect in Florida. It does not create any new Federal Laws and does not impose any new taxes.
I have added this amendment to weed out any subsequent amendments that will be unconstitutional if they do not recognise the Second Amendment.You can propose gun control laws, but these laws need to be on the State level. The Federal Government is specifically prohibited from making any law that infringes on the right of the people to bear arms. Whether that goes down to the individual state level is not clear to me, but you can make your arguments.
Re: School shooting, bombing etc thread
Posted: Mon May 30, 2022 7:41 pm
by flockofseagulls104
BB-1 Bored Congress Bill 1 - Stopping Mass Shootings at Schools
Federal funding for a nationwide Guardian Program to protect all our schools. If an individual state establishes a mandatory program that fits the standards of Florida's Guardian program, this Bored Congress will find a bunch of porkbarrel programs to discontinue, redundant funding to nix, stupid money giveaways to stop and shut down some of the billions of dollars of fraud to fund a pool of money to give to that state to help implement their Guardian program.
Vote Weyoun - NAY (kinda premature though. Vote should be taken when all amendments are added)
AMENDMENT 1 - flock
No part of this bill can in any way conflict with the 2nd Amendment of the Constitution. Otherwise, it will be challenged as Unconstitutional by those who oppose the entire bill. The original bill is ONLY to provide funding to those states that have authorized the implementation of a program based on the Guardian Program currently in effect in Florida. It does not create any new Federal Laws and does not impose any new taxes.
Vote on amendment 1
Flock - YEA
Re: School shooting, bombing etc thread
Posted: Mon May 30, 2022 7:47 pm
by a1mamacat
flockofseagulls104 wrote: ↑Mon May 30, 2022 7:22 pm
Bob Juch wrote: ↑Mon May 30, 2022 6:32 pm
flockofseagulls104 wrote: ↑Mon May 30, 2022 5:58 pm
Stop the pontificating and propose an amendment to the bill to stop school shootings I've started. Tell us what YOU would do. No one really cares what some pundit on the internet says. There will ALWAYS be another one who says the exact opposite.
NO MORE PONTIFICATING. SHIT OR GET OFF THE POT!
I've told you what I'd do. Are you blind or just stupid?
Go back to first page and read forward. If you don't want to participate, go to another thread. Thanks
Not your thread, Pumpkin!
Re: School shooting, bombing etc thread
Posted: Mon May 30, 2022 8:59 pm
by flockofseagulls104
a1mamacat wrote: ↑Mon May 30, 2022 7:47 pm
flockofseagulls104 wrote: ↑Mon May 30, 2022 7:22 pm
Bob Juch wrote: ↑Mon May 30, 2022 6:32 pm
I've told you what I'd do. Are you blind or just stupid?
Go back to first page and read forward. If you don't want to participate, go to another thread. Thanks
Not your thread, Pumpkin!
It is officially hijacked, my dear. Unless you just want more of the same arguing past each other, name calling and topic creep. If you like that, I suggest you go to twitter, or look at the comments section of any internet article. I am suggesting we do something a bit different.
Re: School shooting, bombing etc thread
Posted: Mon May 30, 2022 8:59 pm
by Weyoun
Spock wrote: ↑Mon May 30, 2022 2:35 pm
I just noticed this one. See my longer above.
Weyoun>>>"How much research did your fascist bootlick ass do before suggesting that grade school kids could jump out of windows if an adult with an assault rifle starts shooting them?"<<<<
Grade-school kids can build 3-story treehouses-I am guessing they can climb out a window.
Maybe they can, but most don’t. I feel like you may not be around many children, which may be why you shrug at their deaths.
Either way, I would be impressed if a third grader could build a three story treehouse while his classmate was being murdered in the next yard over and the sound of active gunfire was approaching them.
Re: School shooting, bombing etc thread
Posted: Mon May 30, 2022 9:05 pm
by flockofseagulls104
Weyoun wrote: ↑Mon May 30, 2022 8:59 pm
Spock wrote: ↑Mon May 30, 2022 2:35 pm
I just noticed this one. See my longer above.
Weyoun>>>"How much research did your fascist bootlick ass do before suggesting that grade school kids could jump out of windows if an adult with an assault rifle starts shooting them?"<<<<
Grade-school kids can build 3-story treehouses-I am guessing they can climb out a window.
Maybe they can, but most don’t. I feel like you may not be around many children, which may be why you shrug at their deaths.
Either way, I would be impressed if a third grader could build a three story treehouse while his classmate was being murdered in the next yard over and the sound of active gunfire was approaching them.
Take it elsewhere, people. Please?
Re: School shooting, bombing etc thread
Posted: Mon May 30, 2022 9:32 pm
by silverscreenselect
flockofseagulls104 wrote: ↑Mon May 30, 2022 7:41 pm
BB-1 Bored Congress Bill 1 - Stopping Mass Shootings at Schools
Federal funding for a nationwide Guardian Program to protect all our schools.
Why not provide federal funding for a nationwide program to provide all our schoolchildren with free cigarettes? It's just as bad an idea, but it won't kill them quite as quickly.
Despite your claim that you would read my posts, you obviously ignored the evidence presented that putting more armed guards of any sort in schools is a bad idea, leading to more children getting killed in mass shooter situations.