First bombshell in the Sussman trial

The forum for general posting. Come join the madness. :)
Message
Author
User avatar
flockofseagulls104
Posts: 7742
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 8:07 pm
Location: Atlanta, GA

Re: First bombshell in the Sussman trial

#51 Post by flockofseagulls104 » Fri May 19, 2023 7:37 pm

Just for grins.

Tell me again, bob. Did Trump collude with Russia? Just wondering....
Your friendly neighborhood racist. On the waiting list to be a nazi. Designated an honorary 'snowflake'. Trolled by the very best, as well as by BJ. Always typical, unlike others.., Fulminator, Hopelessly in the tank for trump... inappropriate... Flocking himself... Probably a tucking sexist, too... All thought comes from the right wing noise machine(TM)... A clear and present threat to The Future Of Our Democracy.. Doesn't understand anything... Made the trump apologist and enabler playoffs... Heathen bastard... Knows nothing about history... Liar.... don't know much about statistics and polling... Nothing at all about biology... Ignorant Bigot... Potential Future Pariah... Big Nerd... Spiraling, Anti-Trans Bigot.. A Lunatic AND a Bigot.. Very Ignorant of the World in General... Sounds deranged... Fake Christian... Weird... has the mind of a child... has paranoid delusions... Simpleton

User avatar
tlynn78
Posts: 8651
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2007 9:31 am
Location: Montana

Re: First bombshell in the Sussman trial

#52 Post by tlynn78 » Fri May 19, 2023 8:19 pm

BackInTex wrote:
Fri May 19, 2023 3:29 pm
Flock,

You might think they just have ther heads in the sand, but it's worse.

They just don't care.
They don't care about free and fair elections.
They don't care about people who don't agree with their politics.

Win at all cost.
The ends justifies the means.

Destroy your political opponents, any way necessary....they'll look the other way.
Gaslight the rest.
Precisely.
To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead. -Thomas Paine
You can ignore reality, but you can't ignore the consequences of ignoring reality. -Ayn Rand
Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities. -Voltaire

User avatar
flockofseagulls104
Posts: 7742
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 8:07 pm
Location: Atlanta, GA

Re: First bombshell in the Sussman trial

#53 Post by flockofseagulls104 » Fri May 19, 2023 8:36 pm

tlynn78 wrote:
Fri May 19, 2023 8:19 pm
BackInTex wrote:
Fri May 19, 2023 3:29 pm
Flock,

You might think they just have ther heads in the sand, but it's worse.

They just don't care.
They don't care about free and fair elections.
They don't care about people who don't agree with their politics.

Win at all cost.
The ends justifies the means.

Destroy your political opponents, any way necessary....they'll look the other way.
Gaslight the rest.
Precisely.
I know now that I will never convince them of anything. Not even one of them. But I want to see their lame responses. Ponder the immense hypocrisy they have to overcome in their own minds.
Your friendly neighborhood racist. On the waiting list to be a nazi. Designated an honorary 'snowflake'. Trolled by the very best, as well as by BJ. Always typical, unlike others.., Fulminator, Hopelessly in the tank for trump... inappropriate... Flocking himself... Probably a tucking sexist, too... All thought comes from the right wing noise machine(TM)... A clear and present threat to The Future Of Our Democracy.. Doesn't understand anything... Made the trump apologist and enabler playoffs... Heathen bastard... Knows nothing about history... Liar.... don't know much about statistics and polling... Nothing at all about biology... Ignorant Bigot... Potential Future Pariah... Big Nerd... Spiraling, Anti-Trans Bigot.. A Lunatic AND a Bigot.. Very Ignorant of the World in General... Sounds deranged... Fake Christian... Weird... has the mind of a child... has paranoid delusions... Simpleton

User avatar
Bob Juch
Posts: 26427
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 11:58 am
Location: Oro Valley, Arizona
Contact:

Re: First bombshell in the Sussman trial

#54 Post by Bob Juch » Fri May 19, 2023 9:50 pm

flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Fri May 19, 2023 7:37 pm
Just for grins.

Tell me again, bob. Did Trump collude with Russia? Just wondering....
If he did, they hid it well, just like elephants in trees.
I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I needed to be.
- Douglas Adams (1952 - 2001)

Si fractum non sit, noli id reficere.

Teach a child to be polite and courteous in the home and, when he grows up, he'll never be able to drive in New Jersey.

User avatar
BackInTex
Posts: 12780
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 12:43 pm
Location: In Texas of course!

Re: First bombshell in the Sussman trial

#55 Post by BackInTex » Fri May 19, 2023 11:33 pm

Bob Juch wrote:
Fri May 19, 2023 9:50 pm
flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Fri May 19, 2023 7:37 pm
Just for grins.

Tell me again, bob. Did Trump collude with Russia? Just wondering....
If he did, they hid it well, just like elephants in trees.
Glad to see you admit that they didn’t. A good first step
..what country can preserve it’s liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? let them take arms.
~~ Thomas Jefferson

User avatar
jarnon
Posts: 6264
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2007 9:52 pm
Location: Merion, Pa.

Re: First bombshell in the Sussman trial

#56 Post by jarnon » Sat May 20, 2023 7:41 am

The abuses in this article are worse than anything Durham or Horowitz uncovered.
FBI misused surveillance database on Jan. 6 suspects, BLM arrestees, and crime victims

BY DEVLIN BARRETT (WASHINGTON POST)

The FBI has misused a powerful digital surveillance tool more than 278,000 times, including against crime victims, Jan. 6 riot suspects, people arrested at protests in the wake of the police killing of George Floyd in 2020, and — in one case — 19,000 donors to a congressional candidate, according to a newly unsealed court document.
Spoiler
The FBI says it has already fixed the problems, which it blamed on a misunderstanding between its employees and Justice Department lawyers about how to properly use a vast database named for the legal statute that created it, Section 702.

But the failures to use the 702 database correctly when collecting information about U.S. citizens and others may make it harder for the agency
to marshal support in Congress to renew the law, which is due to expire at the end of this year.

It may also create additional head winds for the FBI, which has been under attack for years by former president Donald Trump and his political
supporters. House lawmakers aligned with Trump held a hearing this week trying to show that the nation’s premier law enforcement agency is biased against conservatives.

The Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court, which oversees Section 702, has also pressured the FBI, writing in the April 2022 opinion that was unsealed Friday that if the agency doesn't perform better, the court will crack down and order its own changes to FBI surveillance practices.

The Section 702 database is a vast trove of electronic communications and other information that can be searched by the National Security Agency and the FBI. The FBI is authorized to search the database only when agents have reason to believe that such a search will produce information relevant to foreign intelligence purposes, or evidence of crimes.

Built in the aftermath of the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, U.S. officials have long considered the database one of the prize jewels of the U.S. national security apparatus.

Its primary purpose is targeting foreign intelligence or terrorism information. But the sweeping nature of the kinds of information the database includes has long worried civil rights advocates, who argue that the government has proven it cannot be trusted to use the system carefully.

The court “is encouraged by the amendments to the FBI’s querying procedures,” Judge Rudolph Contreras of the FISA court wrote in the opinion unsealed Friday, which detailed the nearly 300,000 abuses logged between 2020 and early 2021.

“Nonetheless, compliance problems with the querying of Section 702 information have proven to be persistent and widespread,” Contreras wrote.
“If they are not substantially mitigated by these recent measures, it may become necessary to consider other responses, such as substantially limiting the number of FBI personnel with access to unminimized Section 702 information.”

While House Judiciary Committee chairman Jim Jordan (R., Ohio) has argued that the FBI has mistreated conservatives and applied a liberal bent to its investigations, the examples cited in Contreras’s opinion suggest that the FBI was multifaceted in its failure to live up to the legal standards of the courts and the Justice Department.

In June 2020, the FBI searched for digital data and communications of 133 people arrested "in connection with civil unrests and protests between
approximately May 30, and June 18, 2020," a time when demonstrations erupted across the country over Floyd's death under the knee of a
Minneapolis police officer.

That search was done, officials said, to see whether there was counterterrorism information about those individuals. When questioned about the searches later, FBI officials said it was reasonable for agents to think the searches would return foreign intelligence.

The court opinion describing that effort has significant redactions, making it unclear why the FBI developed its theory.

Officials also found a long pattern between 2016 and 2020 in which the FBI conducted FISA searches about “individuals listed in police homicide reports, including victims, next-of-kin, witnesses, and suspects,” according to the court opinion.

The Justice Department found these searches to violate the rules “because there was no reasonable basis to expect they would return foreign
intelligence or evidence of crime.” The FBI, however, argued “that querying FISA information using identifiers of the victims — simply because they were homicide victims — was reasonably likely to retrieve evidence of crime.”

In recent months, authorities have touted that the number of 702 searches conducted that involve U.S. residents or companies has dropped dramatically — more than 90 percent last year. Officials said Friday that the drop-off was largely the result of the Justice Department audit having found significant compliance failures by the FBI.
When an agent is under pressure to solve a case quickly, and the data are at their fingertips, it’s hard to resist taking a peek. I hope these reports spur a cultural change.
Слава Україні!
עם ישראל חי

User avatar
BackInTex
Posts: 12780
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 12:43 pm
Location: In Texas of course!

Re: First bombshell in the Sussman trial

#57 Post by BackInTex » Sat May 20, 2023 8:22 am

jarnon wrote:
Sat May 20, 2023 7:41 am
The abuses in this article are worse than anything Durham or Horowitz uncovered.
FBI misused surveillance database on Jan. 6 suspects, BLM arrestees, and crime victims

BY DEVLIN BARRETT (WASHINGTON POST)

The FBI has misused a powerful digital surveillance tool more than 278,000 times, including against crime victims, Jan. 6 riot suspects, people arrested at protests in the wake of the police killing of George Floyd in 2020, and — in one case — 19,000 donors to a congressional candidate, according to a newly unsealed court document.
Spoiler
The FBI says it has already fixed the problems, which it blamed on a misunderstanding between its employees and Justice Department lawyers about how to properly use a vast database named for the legal statute that created it, Section 702.

But the failures to use the 702 database correctly when collecting information about U.S. citizens and others may make it harder for the agency
to marshal support in Congress to renew the law, which is due to expire at the end of this year.

It may also create additional head winds for the FBI, which has been under attack for years by former president Donald Trump and his political
supporters. House lawmakers aligned with Trump held a hearing this week trying to show that the nation’s premier law enforcement agency is biased against conservatives.

The Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court, which oversees Section 702, has also pressured the FBI, writing in the April 2022 opinion that was unsealed Friday that if the agency doesn't perform better, the court will crack down and order its own changes to FBI surveillance practices.

The Section 702 database is a vast trove of electronic communications and other information that can be searched by the National Security Agency and the FBI. The FBI is authorized to search the database only when agents have reason to believe that such a search will produce information relevant to foreign intelligence purposes, or evidence of crimes.

Built in the aftermath of the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, U.S. officials have long considered the database one of the prize jewels of the U.S. national security apparatus.

Its primary purpose is targeting foreign intelligence or terrorism information. But the sweeping nature of the kinds of information the database includes has long worried civil rights advocates, who argue that the government has proven it cannot be trusted to use the system carefully.

The court “is encouraged by the amendments to the FBI’s querying procedures,” Judge Rudolph Contreras of the FISA court wrote in the opinion unsealed Friday, which detailed the nearly 300,000 abuses logged between 2020 and early 2021.

“Nonetheless, compliance problems with the querying of Section 702 information have proven to be persistent and widespread,” Contreras wrote.
“If they are not substantially mitigated by these recent measures, it may become necessary to consider other responses, such as substantially limiting the number of FBI personnel with access to unminimized Section 702 information.”

While House Judiciary Committee chairman Jim Jordan (R., Ohio) has argued that the FBI has mistreated conservatives and applied a liberal bent to its investigations, the examples cited in Contreras’s opinion suggest that the FBI was multifaceted in its failure to live up to the legal standards of the courts and the Justice Department.

In June 2020, the FBI searched for digital data and communications of 133 people arrested "in connection with civil unrests and protests between
approximately May 30, and June 18, 2020," a time when demonstrations erupted across the country over Floyd's death under the knee of a
Minneapolis police officer.

That search was done, officials said, to see whether there was counterterrorism information about those individuals. When questioned about the searches later, FBI officials said it was reasonable for agents to think the searches would return foreign intelligence.

The court opinion describing that effort has significant redactions, making it unclear why the FBI developed its theory.

Officials also found a long pattern between 2016 and 2020 in which the FBI conducted FISA searches about “individuals listed in police homicide reports, including victims, next-of-kin, witnesses, and suspects,” according to the court opinion.

The Justice Department found these searches to violate the rules “because there was no reasonable basis to expect they would return foreign
intelligence or evidence of crime.” The FBI, however, argued “that querying FISA information using identifiers of the victims — simply because they were homicide victims — was reasonably likely to retrieve evidence of crime.”

In recent months, authorities have touted that the number of 702 searches conducted that involve U.S. residents or companies has dropped dramatically — more than 90 percent last year. Officials said Friday that the drop-off was largely the result of the Justice Department audit having found significant compliance failures by the FBI.
When an agent is under pressure to solve a case quickly, and the data are at their fingertips, it’s hard to resist taking a peek. I hope these reports spur a cultural change.

I wonder who the congressional candidate was. I could not find a name.

There is no doubt the FBI has been corrupted by politics. It has become a Stasi-like entity.
..what country can preserve it’s liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? let them take arms.
~~ Thomas Jefferson

User avatar
Weyoun
Posts: 2314
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 9:36 pm

Re: First bombshell in the Sussman trial

#58 Post by Weyoun » Sat May 20, 2023 2:37 pm

BackInTex wrote:
Sat May 20, 2023 8:22 am
jarnon wrote:
Sat May 20, 2023 7:41 am
The abuses in this article are worse than anything Durham or Horowitz uncovered.
FBI misused surveillance database on Jan. 6 suspects, BLM arrestees, and crime victims

BY DEVLIN BARRETT (WASHINGTON POST)

The FBI has misused a powerful digital surveillance tool more than 278,000 times, including against crime victims, Jan. 6 riot suspects, people arrested at protests in the wake of the police killing of George Floyd in 2020, and — in one case — 19,000 donors to a congressional candidate, according to a newly unsealed court document.
Spoiler
The FBI says it has already fixed the problems, which it blamed on a misunderstanding between its employees and Justice Department lawyers about how to properly use a vast database named for the legal statute that created it, Section 702.

But the failures to use the 702 database correctly when collecting information about U.S. citizens and others may make it harder for the agency
to marshal support in Congress to renew the law, which is due to expire at the end of this year.

It may also create additional head winds for the FBI, which has been under attack for years by former president Donald Trump and his political
supporters. House lawmakers aligned with Trump held a hearing this week trying to show that the nation’s premier law enforcement agency is biased against conservatives.

The Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court, which oversees Section 702, has also pressured the FBI, writing in the April 2022 opinion that was unsealed Friday that if the agency doesn't perform better, the court will crack down and order its own changes to FBI surveillance practices.

The Section 702 database is a vast trove of electronic communications and other information that can be searched by the National Security Agency and the FBI. The FBI is authorized to search the database only when agents have reason to believe that such a search will produce information relevant to foreign intelligence purposes, or evidence of crimes.

Built in the aftermath of the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, U.S. officials have long considered the database one of the prize jewels of the U.S. national security apparatus.

Its primary purpose is targeting foreign intelligence or terrorism information. But the sweeping nature of the kinds of information the database includes has long worried civil rights advocates, who argue that the government has proven it cannot be trusted to use the system carefully.

The court “is encouraged by the amendments to the FBI’s querying procedures,” Judge Rudolph Contreras of the FISA court wrote in the opinion unsealed Friday, which detailed the nearly 300,000 abuses logged between 2020 and early 2021.

“Nonetheless, compliance problems with the querying of Section 702 information have proven to be persistent and widespread,” Contreras wrote.
“If they are not substantially mitigated by these recent measures, it may become necessary to consider other responses, such as substantially limiting the number of FBI personnel with access to unminimized Section 702 information.”

While House Judiciary Committee chairman Jim Jordan (R., Ohio) has argued that the FBI has mistreated conservatives and applied a liberal bent to its investigations, the examples cited in Contreras’s opinion suggest that the FBI was multifaceted in its failure to live up to the legal standards of the courts and the Justice Department.

In June 2020, the FBI searched for digital data and communications of 133 people arrested "in connection with civil unrests and protests between
approximately May 30, and June 18, 2020," a time when demonstrations erupted across the country over Floyd's death under the knee of a
Minneapolis police officer.

That search was done, officials said, to see whether there was counterterrorism information about those individuals. When questioned about the searches later, FBI officials said it was reasonable for agents to think the searches would return foreign intelligence.

The court opinion describing that effort has significant redactions, making it unclear why the FBI developed its theory.

Officials also found a long pattern between 2016 and 2020 in which the FBI conducted FISA searches about “individuals listed in police homicide reports, including victims, next-of-kin, witnesses, and suspects,” according to the court opinion.

The Justice Department found these searches to violate the rules “because there was no reasonable basis to expect they would return foreign
intelligence or evidence of crime.” The FBI, however, argued “that querying FISA information using identifiers of the victims — simply because they were homicide victims — was reasonably likely to retrieve evidence of crime.”

In recent months, authorities have touted that the number of 702 searches conducted that involve U.S. residents or companies has dropped dramatically — more than 90 percent last year. Officials said Friday that the drop-off was largely the result of the Justice Department audit having found significant compliance failures by the FBI.
When an agent is under pressure to solve a case quickly, and the data are at their fingertips, it’s hard to resist taking a peek. I hope these reports spur a cultural change.

I wonder who the congressional candidate was. I could not find a name.

There is no doubt the FBI has been corrupted by politics. It has become a Stasi-like entity.
Do you even know what the Stasi was? This doesn’t sound like anything they would do

From my own perspective, I don’t think Trump and Russia specifically colluded.

I do think Russia wanted Trump to be president, which is why they try to do behind the scenes things to help with that. I don’t think Trump had to know, and I don’t think him knowing really would’ve made a difference

Personally, if I was a Trump fan, they would give me pause…

User avatar
flockofseagulls104
Posts: 7742
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 8:07 pm
Location: Atlanta, GA

Re: First bombshell in the Sussman trial

#59 Post by flockofseagulls104 » Sat May 20, 2023 5:59 pm

Weyoun wrote:
Sat May 20, 2023 2:37 pm
BackInTex wrote:
Sat May 20, 2023 8:22 am
jarnon wrote:
Sat May 20, 2023 7:41 am
The abuses in this article are worse than anything Durham or Horowitz uncovered.When an agent is under pressure to solve a case quickly, and the data are at their fingertips, it’s hard to resist taking a peek. I hope these reports spur a cultural change.

I wonder who the congressional candidate was. I could not find a name.

There is no doubt the FBI has been corrupted by politics. It has become a Stasi-like entity.
Do you even know what the Stasi was? This doesn’t sound like anything they would do

From my own perspective, I don’t think Trump and Russia specifically colluded.

I do think Russia wanted Trump to be president, which is why they try to do behind the scenes things to help with that. I don’t think Trump had to know, and I don’t think him knowing really would’ve made a difference

Personally, if I was a Trump fan, they would give me pause…
Personally, I KNOW the democrats, Hillary Clinton, and the swamp based 'intelligence' community did NOT want Trump to be president. And what all of those entities, aided by their Pravda-like media, actually and provably did had 1000 times more effect on both the 2016 and 2020 elections than anything you think (but cannot even name) Russia did.
But I know nothing will give you pause.

Another case where bobby's quote applies.
Your friendly neighborhood racist. On the waiting list to be a nazi. Designated an honorary 'snowflake'. Trolled by the very best, as well as by BJ. Always typical, unlike others.., Fulminator, Hopelessly in the tank for trump... inappropriate... Flocking himself... Probably a tucking sexist, too... All thought comes from the right wing noise machine(TM)... A clear and present threat to The Future Of Our Democracy.. Doesn't understand anything... Made the trump apologist and enabler playoffs... Heathen bastard... Knows nothing about history... Liar.... don't know much about statistics and polling... Nothing at all about biology... Ignorant Bigot... Potential Future Pariah... Big Nerd... Spiraling, Anti-Trans Bigot.. A Lunatic AND a Bigot.. Very Ignorant of the World in General... Sounds deranged... Fake Christian... Weird... has the mind of a child... has paranoid delusions... Simpleton

User avatar
tlynn78
Posts: 8651
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2007 9:31 am
Location: Montana

Re: First bombshell in the Sussman trial

#60 Post by tlynn78 » Sun May 21, 2023 4:28 pm

flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Sat May 20, 2023 5:59 pm
Weyoun wrote:
Sat May 20, 2023 2:37 pm
BackInTex wrote:
Sat May 20, 2023 8:22 am



I wonder who the congressional candidate was. I could not find a name.

There is no doubt the FBI has been corrupted by politics. It has become a Stasi-like entity.
Do you even know what the Stasi was? This doesn’t sound like anything they would do

From my own perspective, I don’t think Trump and Russia specifically colluded.

I do think Russia wanted Trump to be president, which is why they try to do behind the scenes things to help with that. I don’t think Trump had to know, and I don’t think him knowing really would’ve made a difference

Personally, if I was a Trump fan, they would give me pause…
Personally, I KNOW the democrats, Hillary Clinton, and the swamp based 'intelligence' community did NOT want Trump to be president. And what all of those entities, aided by their Pravda-like media, actually and provably did had 1000 times more effect on both the 2016 and 2020 elections than anything you think (but cannot even name) Russia did.
But I know nothing will give you pause.

Another case where bobby's quote applies.
Bingo. The spin is as astonishing as it is sickening
To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead. -Thomas Paine
You can ignore reality, but you can't ignore the consequences of ignoring reality. -Ayn Rand
Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities. -Voltaire

User avatar
flockofseagulls104
Posts: 7742
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 8:07 pm
Location: Atlanta, GA

Re: First bombshell in the Sussman trial

#61 Post by flockofseagulls104 » Mon May 22, 2023 10:05 am

duplicate
Last edited by flockofseagulls104 on Mon May 22, 2023 10:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
Your friendly neighborhood racist. On the waiting list to be a nazi. Designated an honorary 'snowflake'. Trolled by the very best, as well as by BJ. Always typical, unlike others.., Fulminator, Hopelessly in the tank for trump... inappropriate... Flocking himself... Probably a tucking sexist, too... All thought comes from the right wing noise machine(TM)... A clear and present threat to The Future Of Our Democracy.. Doesn't understand anything... Made the trump apologist and enabler playoffs... Heathen bastard... Knows nothing about history... Liar.... don't know much about statistics and polling... Nothing at all about biology... Ignorant Bigot... Potential Future Pariah... Big Nerd... Spiraling, Anti-Trans Bigot.. A Lunatic AND a Bigot.. Very Ignorant of the World in General... Sounds deranged... Fake Christian... Weird... has the mind of a child... has paranoid delusions... Simpleton

User avatar
flockofseagulls104
Posts: 7742
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 8:07 pm
Location: Atlanta, GA

Re: First bombshell in the Sussman trial

#62 Post by flockofseagulls104 » Mon May 22, 2023 10:05 am

I guess one way to avoid coping with facts that you find inconvenient is by adamantly refusing to accept them no matter what. We could call that faith-based politics, because no amount of contrary evidence will ever convince you. --bob
The more I think about this quote from bobby, the more accurate it seems to be as applied to the usual suspects on this bored and elsewhere. Many people have said that liberalism, more specifically leftism or secularism, is a religion. It takes the place of faith in God or any established religion. It has its own definition of 'morals', like climate-change (formerly 'global warming'), and looks on those of us that put our faith in our God, especially those of us who are Christians, as heathens.

That is their faith, and their politics are most definitely faith-based. And its tenets are defined by those elitists who control the left. Those tenets are constantly being adjusted to serve the goals of the left. In contrast to the tenets of Christianity, which are almost 2000 years old. Most Christians don't live up to them all the time, but those tenets are established and mostly unchanging.
Your friendly neighborhood racist. On the waiting list to be a nazi. Designated an honorary 'snowflake'. Trolled by the very best, as well as by BJ. Always typical, unlike others.., Fulminator, Hopelessly in the tank for trump... inappropriate... Flocking himself... Probably a tucking sexist, too... All thought comes from the right wing noise machine(TM)... A clear and present threat to The Future Of Our Democracy.. Doesn't understand anything... Made the trump apologist and enabler playoffs... Heathen bastard... Knows nothing about history... Liar.... don't know much about statistics and polling... Nothing at all about biology... Ignorant Bigot... Potential Future Pariah... Big Nerd... Spiraling, Anti-Trans Bigot.. A Lunatic AND a Bigot.. Very Ignorant of the World in General... Sounds deranged... Fake Christian... Weird... has the mind of a child... has paranoid delusions... Simpleton

User avatar
kroxquo
Posts: 3055
Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2008 12:24 pm
Location: On the Road to Kingdom Come
Contact:

Re: First bombshell in the Sussman trial

#63 Post by kroxquo » Mon May 22, 2023 7:11 pm

flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Mon May 22, 2023 10:05 am
I guess one way to avoid coping with facts that you find inconvenient is by adamantly refusing to accept them no matter what. We could call that faith-based politics, because no amount of contrary evidence will ever convince you. --bob
The more I think about this quote from bobby, the more accurate it seems to be as applied to the usual suspects on this bored and elsewhere. Many people have said that liberalism, more specifically leftism or secularism, is a religion. It takes the place of faith in God or any established religion. It has its own definition of 'morals', like climate-change (formerly 'global warming'), and looks on those of us that put our faith in our God, especially those of us who are Christians, as heathens.

That is their faith, and their politics are most definitely faith-based. And its tenets are defined by those elitists who control the left. Those tenets are constantly being adjusted to serve the goals of the left. In contrast to the tenets of Christianity, which are almost 2000 years old. Most Christians don't live up to them all the time, but those tenets are established and mostly unchanging.
Not looking to start a fight, but trying to understand your position. Are you saying that Christianity and liberalism are mutually exclusive?
You live and learn. Or at least you live. - Douglas Adams

User avatar
flockofseagulls104
Posts: 7742
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 8:07 pm
Location: Atlanta, GA

Re: First bombshell in the Sussman trial

#64 Post by flockofseagulls104 » Mon May 22, 2023 8:45 pm

kroxquo wrote:
Mon May 22, 2023 7:11 pm
flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Mon May 22, 2023 10:05 am
I guess one way to avoid coping with facts that you find inconvenient is by adamantly refusing to accept them no matter what. We could call that faith-based politics, because no amount of contrary evidence will ever convince you. --bob
The more I think about this quote from bobby, the more accurate it seems to be as applied to the usual suspects on this bored and elsewhere. Many people have said that liberalism, more specifically leftism or secularism, is a religion. It takes the place of faith in God or any established religion. It has its own definition of 'morals', like climate-change (formerly 'global warming'), and looks on those of us that put our faith in our God, especially those of us who are Christians, as heathens.

That is their faith, and their politics are most definitely faith-based. And its tenets are defined by those elitists who control the left. Those tenets are constantly being adjusted to serve the goals of the left. In contrast to the tenets of Christianity, which are almost 2000 years old. Most Christians don't live up to them all the time, but those tenets are established and mostly unchanging.
Not looking to start a fight, but trying to understand your position. Are you saying that Christianity and liberalism are mutually exclusive?
I think I agree with Dennis Prager. Leftism and Christianity are mutually exclusive. Liberals are not leftists. Liberals are essentially good-hearted people, but they tend to vote for and elect leftists, essentially poking themselves in the eye, to all of our misfortune. If you would debase yourself to listen to a different perspective:
https://www.prageru.com/video/left-or-liberal
Your friendly neighborhood racist. On the waiting list to be a nazi. Designated an honorary 'snowflake'. Trolled by the very best, as well as by BJ. Always typical, unlike others.., Fulminator, Hopelessly in the tank for trump... inappropriate... Flocking himself... Probably a tucking sexist, too... All thought comes from the right wing noise machine(TM)... A clear and present threat to The Future Of Our Democracy.. Doesn't understand anything... Made the trump apologist and enabler playoffs... Heathen bastard... Knows nothing about history... Liar.... don't know much about statistics and polling... Nothing at all about biology... Ignorant Bigot... Potential Future Pariah... Big Nerd... Spiraling, Anti-Trans Bigot.. A Lunatic AND a Bigot.. Very Ignorant of the World in General... Sounds deranged... Fake Christian... Weird... has the mind of a child... has paranoid delusions... Simpleton

User avatar
Bob Juch
Posts: 26427
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 11:58 am
Location: Oro Valley, Arizona
Contact:

Re: First bombshell in the Sussman trial

#65 Post by Bob Juch » Tue May 23, 2023 3:42 pm

flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Mon May 22, 2023 8:45 pm
kroxquo wrote:
Mon May 22, 2023 7:11 pm
flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Mon May 22, 2023 10:05 am


The more I think about this quote from bobby, the more accurate it seems to be as applied to the usual suspects on this bored and elsewhere. Many people have said that liberalism, more specifically leftism or secularism, is a religion. It takes the place of faith in God or any established religion. It has its own definition of 'morals', like climate-change (formerly 'global warming'), and looks on those of us that put our faith in our God, especially those of us who are Christians, as heathens.

That is their faith, and their politics are most definitely faith-based. And its tenets are defined by those elitists who control the left. Those tenets are constantly being adjusted to serve the goals of the left. In contrast to the tenets of Christianity, which are almost 2000 years old. Most Christians don't live up to them all the time, but those tenets are established and mostly unchanging.
Not looking to start a fight, but trying to understand your position. Are you saying that Christianity and liberalism are mutually exclusive?
I think I agree with Dennis Prager. Leftism and Christianity are mutually exclusive. Liberals are not leftists. Liberals are essentially good-hearted people, but they tend to vote for and elect leftists, essentially poking themselves in the eye, to all of our misfortune. If you would debase yourself to listen to a different perspective:
https://www.prageru.com/video/left-or-liberal
Someone subscribed me to the PragerU daily emails. I filter them immediately into the trash.
I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I needed to be.
- Douglas Adams (1952 - 2001)

Si fractum non sit, noli id reficere.

Teach a child to be polite and courteous in the home and, when he grows up, he'll never be able to drive in New Jersey.

User avatar
flockofseagulls104
Posts: 7742
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 8:07 pm
Location: Atlanta, GA

Re: First bombshell in the Sussman trial

#66 Post by flockofseagulls104 » Tue May 23, 2023 8:23 pm

Bob Juch wrote:
Tue May 23, 2023 3:42 pm
flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Mon May 22, 2023 8:45 pm
kroxquo wrote:
Mon May 22, 2023 7:11 pm


Not looking to start a fight, but trying to understand your position. Are you saying that Christianity and liberalism are mutually exclusive?
I think I agree with Dennis Prager. Leftism and Christianity are mutually exclusive. Liberals are not leftists. Liberals are essentially good-hearted people, but they tend to vote for and elect leftists, essentially poking themselves in the eye, to all of our misfortune. If you would debase yourself to listen to a different perspective:
https://www.prageru.com/video/left-or-liberal
Someone subscribed me to the PragerU daily emails. I filter them immediately into the trash.
You are obviously desperately determined to remain ignorant. That is something you are good at. That, and displaying it. True to your faith. Bless your heart.
Your friendly neighborhood racist. On the waiting list to be a nazi. Designated an honorary 'snowflake'. Trolled by the very best, as well as by BJ. Always typical, unlike others.., Fulminator, Hopelessly in the tank for trump... inappropriate... Flocking himself... Probably a tucking sexist, too... All thought comes from the right wing noise machine(TM)... A clear and present threat to The Future Of Our Democracy.. Doesn't understand anything... Made the trump apologist and enabler playoffs... Heathen bastard... Knows nothing about history... Liar.... don't know much about statistics and polling... Nothing at all about biology... Ignorant Bigot... Potential Future Pariah... Big Nerd... Spiraling, Anti-Trans Bigot.. A Lunatic AND a Bigot.. Very Ignorant of the World in General... Sounds deranged... Fake Christian... Weird... has the mind of a child... has paranoid delusions... Simpleton

User avatar
kroxquo
Posts: 3055
Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2008 12:24 pm
Location: On the Road to Kingdom Come
Contact:

Re: First bombshell in the Sussman trial

#67 Post by kroxquo » Sat May 27, 2023 9:37 am

flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Mon May 22, 2023 8:45 pm
kroxquo wrote:
Mon May 22, 2023 7:11 pm
flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Mon May 22, 2023 10:05 am


The more I think about this quote from bobby, the more accurate it seems to be as applied to the usual suspects on this bored and elsewhere. Many people have said that liberalism, more specifically leftism or secularism, is a religion. It takes the place of faith in God or any established religion. It has its own definition of 'morals', like climate-change (formerly 'global warming'), and looks on those of us that put our faith in our God, especially those of us who are Christians, as heathens.

That is their faith, and their politics are most definitely faith-based. And its tenets are defined by those elitists who control the left. Those tenets are constantly being adjusted to serve the goals of the left. In contrast to the tenets of Christianity, which are almost 2000 years old. Most Christians don't live up to them all the time, but those tenets are established and mostly unchanging.
Not looking to start a fight, but trying to understand your position. Are you saying that Christianity and liberalism are mutually exclusive?
I think I agree with Dennis Prager. Leftism and Christianity are mutually exclusive. Liberals are not leftists. Liberals are essentially good-hearted people, but they tend to vote for and elect leftists, essentially poking themselves in the eye, to all of our misfortune. If you would debase yourself to listen to a different perspective:
https://www.prageru.com/video/left-or-liberal
I finally had the time to devote to this that I wanted. Even if the basic argument of the difference between leftism and liberalism is true (I dispute that), I do not see how being a "leftist" is separate from being Christian.

In any case, if you would debase yourself to listen to a different perspective here are some of my thoughts on your video:

“The left has appropriated the word ‘liberal’”
It is conservatives who have used a wide brush to brand anyone who evens slightly left – such as a moderate centrist like Joe Biden – as a liberal and by extension a leftist. Conservatives do not make a distinction between the extreme left like Elizabeth Warren or Kirsten Gillibrand and more moderates like Dianne Feinstein or Mark Warner. Admittedly, Democrats paint Republicans with a broad brush as well, but not to the point that calling someone conservative has become an insult in the same way that calling someone a liberal has.

“The left is increasingly committed to racial segregation – such as all-black dormitories and separate black graduations at universities.”

Racial segregation of the past was meant to oppress and dehumanize black and other minority groups and the effects of such policies is still felt today. These events and facilities are meant to celebrate the unique challenges that minorities have to overcome that their white peers do not in an environment where they can feel safe and comfortable – an environment that many blacks do not feel in American society in general. Also, would you criticize HBCU’s for promoting segregation?

“Capitalism is the only way to lift great numbers of people out of poverty.” (emphasis added)
I would dispute this very premise. The purest form of laissez-faire capitalism ever was in Industrial Revolution England and that did very little to lift people out of poverty and in fact exacerbated the problem and abandoned an entire class of people to their own devices.

“Opposition to capitalism and advocacy of socialism are left-wing values.”

Prager throws this statement out there and then moves on. He gives no examples or even defines what he means by socialism. Many people called Franklin Roosevelt a socialist for instituting things like medicare and social security. Does wanting universal health care make someone a socialist? Does wanting to expand the social safety net make someone a socialist? Socialism in its pure form calls for elimination of private ownership of the means of production. I honestly do not believe that any serious person in our government advocates for that.

“The left has contempt for nationalism seing it as the road to fascism. Better that we should all be ‘citizens of the world’ in a world without borders.”

Or to flip it around, that the left recognizes that no country lives in isolation and what one country does has ramifications for all others, especially when it comes to issues like climate change. And just out of curiosity, if Superman’s space ship had landed in Siberia instead of Iowa, would his renouncing his citizenship be a bad thing?

“Watch American films the 1930’s through the 1950’s and you will be watching overtly patriotic America celebrating films.”

You will be also watching films like “Gone With the Wind” or “Song of the South” where slavery was viewed through rose-colored glasses; films where minorities exist almost only as villains or servants; where women are treated as subordinate to men.

“They agreed with Abraham Lincoln that America was the last, best hope of earth.”

This takes Lincoln’s quote out of context. Lincoln was referring to the fact that freeing the slaves was the way for America to continue to be the last, best hope.

“The left…regards America as racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, violent, and imperialistic.”

Two hundred forty years of chattel slavery followed by another hundred of Jim Crow laws, genocide of indigenous peoples, historic discrimination against immigrants from German to Irish, to Chinese to Slavic to Jew to Hispanic, and the continued bigotry against LGBTQ+ citizens make me agree with this statement. That is not to say that the U.S. is any worse than other countries and is certainly better than most. But there is much in our history that we cannot be proud of.

“The left is leading the first widespread suppression of free speech in modern American history.”

Are you familiar with the gag order imposed by Congress on its members during the antebellum era forbidding just the discussion of slavery on the floor of Congress? The Hays code?

“[The left] argued that Western civilization is no better than any other and that ‘Western Civilization’ is just a euphemism for white supremacy.”

The first part of this statement implies the belief that Western civilization is better. Who are we to say? Coming from our perspective of growing up in Western civilization, we are more familiar with our own, but the cultural achievements of other cultures cannot by any objective measure considered to be lesser than our own and may in fact long out last ours. And to argue otherwise is to imply a supremacy of our culture over others.
You live and learn. Or at least you live. - Douglas Adams

User avatar
flockofseagulls104
Posts: 7742
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 8:07 pm
Location: Atlanta, GA

Re: First bombshell in the Sussman trial

#68 Post by flockofseagulls104 » Sat May 27, 2023 11:56 am

kroxquo wrote:
Sat May 27, 2023 9:37 am
flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Mon May 22, 2023 8:45 pm
kroxquo wrote:
Mon May 22, 2023 7:11 pm


Not looking to start a fight, but trying to understand your position. Are you saying that Christianity and liberalism are mutually exclusive?
I think I agree with Dennis Prager. Leftism and Christianity are mutually exclusive. Liberals are not leftists. Liberals are essentially good-hearted people, but they tend to vote for and elect leftists, essentially poking themselves in the eye, to all of our misfortune. If you would debase yourself to listen to a different perspective:
https://www.prageru.com/video/left-or-liberal
I finally had the time to devote to this that I wanted. Even if the basic argument of the difference between leftism and liberalism is true (I dispute that), I do not see how being a "leftist" is separate from being Christian.

In any case, if you would debase yourself to listen to a different perspective here are some of my thoughts on your video:

“The left has appropriated the word ‘liberal’”
It is conservatives who have used a wide brush to brand anyone who evens slightly left – such as a moderate centrist like Joe Biden – as a liberal and by extension a leftist. Conservatives do not make a distinction between the extreme left like Elizabeth Warren or Kirsten Gillibrand and more moderates like Dianne Feinstein or Mark Warner. Admittedly, Democrats paint Republicans with a broad brush as well, but not to the point that calling someone conservative has become an insult in the same way that calling someone a liberal has.

“The left is increasingly committed to racial segregation – such as all-black dormitories and separate black graduations at universities.”

Racial segregation of the past was meant to oppress and dehumanize black and other minority groups and the effects of such policies is still felt today. These events and facilities are meant to celebrate the unique challenges that minorities have to overcome that their white peers do not in an environment where they can feel safe and comfortable – an environment that many blacks do not feel in American society in general. Also, would you criticize HBCU’s for promoting segregation?

“Capitalism is the only way to lift great numbers of people out of poverty.” (emphasis added)
I would dispute this very premise. The purest form of laissez-faire capitalism ever was in Industrial Revolution England and that did very little to lift people out of poverty and in fact exacerbated the problem and abandoned an entire class of people to their own devices.

“Opposition to capitalism and advocacy of socialism are left-wing values.”

Prager throws this statement out there and then moves on. He gives no examples or even defines what he means by socialism. Many people called Franklin Roosevelt a socialist for instituting things like medicare and social security. Does wanting universal health care make someone a socialist? Does wanting to expand the social safety net make someone a socialist? Socialism in its pure form calls for elimination of private ownership of the means of production. I honestly do not believe that any serious person in our government advocates for that.

“The left has contempt for nationalism seing it as the road to fascism. Better that we should all be ‘citizens of the world’ in a world without borders.”

Or to flip it around, that the left recognizes that no country lives in isolation and what one country does has ramifications for all others, especially when it comes to issues like climate change. And just out of curiosity, if Superman’s space ship had landed in Siberia instead of Iowa, would his renouncing his citizenship be a bad thing?

“Watch American films the 1930’s through the 1950’s and you will be watching overtly patriotic America celebrating films.”

You will be also watching films like “Gone With the Wind” or “Song of the South” where slavery was viewed through rose-colored glasses; films where minorities exist almost only as villains or servants; where women are treated as subordinate to men.

“They agreed with Abraham Lincoln that America was the last, best hope of earth.”

This takes Lincoln’s quote out of context. Lincoln was referring to the fact that freeing the slaves was the way for America to continue to be the last, best hope.

“The left…regards America as racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, violent, and imperialistic.”

Two hundred forty years of chattel slavery followed by another hundred of Jim Crow laws, genocide of indigenous peoples, historic discrimination against immigrants from German to Irish, to Chinese to Slavic to Jew to Hispanic, and the continued bigotry against LGBTQ+ citizens make me agree with this statement. That is not to say that the U.S. is any worse than other countries and is certainly better than most. But there is much in our history that we cannot be proud of.

“The left is leading the first widespread suppression of free speech in modern American history.”

Are you familiar with the gag order imposed by Congress on its members during the antebellum era forbidding just the discussion of slavery on the floor of Congress? The Hays code?

“[The left] argued that Western civilization is no better than any other and that ‘Western Civilization’ is just a euphemism for white supremacy.”

The first part of this statement implies the belief that Western civilization is better. Who are we to say? Coming from our perspective of growing up in Western civilization, we are more familiar with our own, but the cultural achievements of other cultures cannot by any objective measure considered to be lesser than our own and may in fact long out last ours. And to argue otherwise is to imply a supremacy of our culture over others.
I applaud you for having the courage to even expose yourself to a different perspective. I am not going to get into a debate here with anyone. I used to do that, but it hurts banging your head against the wall. It never stuck to one point, and inevitably became personal. Just look at my signature below.

I agree with Mr. Prager about a lot of things and disagree with him about others. The main thing is that I got you to consider a different perspective that you will not get in today's mass media. The media today is contemptuous of conservative viewpoints, and censors, discounts, and ignores it. If you are fair-minded, you cannot possibly deny that. There is PLENTY of indisputable evidence. You have to go out of your way to find information that is contrary to the approved narrative of today's popular culture. If you search it out, you may not agree with it, but maybe it will get you thinking. That's what we need more of these days.
Your friendly neighborhood racist. On the waiting list to be a nazi. Designated an honorary 'snowflake'. Trolled by the very best, as well as by BJ. Always typical, unlike others.., Fulminator, Hopelessly in the tank for trump... inappropriate... Flocking himself... Probably a tucking sexist, too... All thought comes from the right wing noise machine(TM)... A clear and present threat to The Future Of Our Democracy.. Doesn't understand anything... Made the trump apologist and enabler playoffs... Heathen bastard... Knows nothing about history... Liar.... don't know much about statistics and polling... Nothing at all about biology... Ignorant Bigot... Potential Future Pariah... Big Nerd... Spiraling, Anti-Trans Bigot.. A Lunatic AND a Bigot.. Very Ignorant of the World in General... Sounds deranged... Fake Christian... Weird... has the mind of a child... has paranoid delusions... Simpleton

Post Reply