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Re: Roe v Wade overturned?
Posted: Wed May 04, 2022 2:06 pm
by kroxquo
So now that Conservatives are on the brink of overturning Roe to protect children, I am sure they will also line up behind other issues that will benefit children such as increasing funding for head start, pre-K for all students, medicaid for all, sensible and realistic sex education (abstinence only is neither of those things), making birth control cheaper and more readily available, and expansion of the food stamp program. I think that if they cannot back these, then overturning Roe was just a way to impose their morality on the women of this country.
Re: Roe v Wade overturned?
Posted: Wed May 04, 2022 2:21 pm
by flockofseagulls104
kroxquo wrote: ↑Wed May 04, 2022 2:06 pm
So now that Conservatives are on the brink of overturning Roe to protect children, I am sure they will also line up behind other issues that will benefit children such as increasing funding for head start, pre-K for all students, medicaid for all, sensible and realistic sex education (abstinence only is neither of those things), making birth control cheaper and more readily available, and expansion of the food stamp program. I think that if they cannot back these, then overturning Roe was just a way to impose their morality on the women of this country.
Krox, I think you're going off the deep end and showing you are NOT the moderate that you may have been presenting yourself as. Almost all of those suggestions are on the progressive wish list and almost all expand the power and influence of the Federal Government.
As I'm sure you know, overturning Roe v Wade will not in any way do away with abortions. The only difference is that the individual states will get to decide what restrictions apply. I don't know why bob would be in any way concerned about it. In California I'm sure they will make it even easier for any woman to get an abortion any time they want to. The taxpayers will probably pay for everything, and they will probably offer to fly in people from other countries to have an abortion in CA.
The world is not going to end. What food stamps have to do with this, I really don't get, Krox
Re: Roe v Wade overturned?
Posted: Wed May 04, 2022 2:30 pm
by wbtravis007
BackInTex wrote: ↑Tue May 03, 2022 4:47 pm
silverscreenselect wrote: ↑Tue May 03, 2022 4:38 pm
Ritterskoop wrote: ↑Tue May 03, 2022 11:06 am
I'm wondering if the leak was designed to help anyone during primary season. It could get some voters more fired up to participate than they normally would be in the spring (most voters only show up in November during Presidential election years, then fewer for the midterms, and hardly anyone for primaries).
Roomie and I voted early in the NC primary today, but we'd had that scheduled even before the leak, which I don't think affected our choices, but really, might affect a few in the new couple of weeks.
This leak or the decision itself, which will probably be issued at the end of June, won't have much of an effect on primary voting, since most Republican candidates and Democratic candidates share the same points of view on abortion as each other. It could well have a difference in the general election.
And the decision will have been given by then so if you're right, the primaries were not the motivation. My feeling is that whomever did it does not agree with what was written so wanted to get it out to put intense social pressure on a court that many see as influenceable by social media.
What happened to: " Guesses have no positive reason to be made."
Re: Roe v Wade overturned?
Posted: Wed May 04, 2022 3:30 pm
by Beebs52
I'd be interested, aside from the whole leak thing, what percentage of the male populace, in general, and vis a vis potential fatherhood, is pro-no limit abortion versus female approval. Has that stat been accumulated.
Re: Roe v Wade overturned?
Posted: Wed May 04, 2022 4:57 pm
by Beebs52
Is your 89 year old grandfather a human being? Does it give you the right to euthanize him? Not talking about no extreme measures in case of imminent death.
Is your 4 month old fetus a human being? Not talking about extreme measures wherein mother will die or whatever.
Is a convenience elective abortion, 600,000+ per Guttmacher Institute, not euthenasia?
Re: Roe v Wade overturned?
Posted: Wed May 04, 2022 5:06 pm
by BackInTex
silverscreenselect wrote: ↑Wed May 04, 2022 7:28 am
Estonut wrote: ↑Wed May 04, 2022 7:18 am
You cannot possibly know whether the leaker waited two months or two minutes, since you don't know
when they got their hands on it.
Again, only a limited number of people have access to these opinion drafts. Those who COULD have leaked it had access to it in February.
Really? You know the status and tenure of every law clerk, mail clerk, admin, etc. at the SC. Every one of them? Wow.
Re: Roe v Wade overturned?
Posted: Wed May 04, 2022 5:17 pm
by Bob78164
BackInTex wrote: ↑Wed May 04, 2022 5:06 pm
silverscreenselect wrote: ↑Wed May 04, 2022 7:28 am
Estonut wrote: ↑Wed May 04, 2022 7:18 am
You cannot possibly know whether the leaker waited two months or two minutes, since you don't know
when they got their hands on it.
Again, only a limited number of people have access to these opinion drafts. Those who COULD have leaked it had access to it in February.
Really? You know the status and tenure of every law clerk, mail clerk, admin, etc. at the SC. Every one of them? Wow.
Each Justice has four law clerks, each of whom serves a one-year term starting in September or October. I would be astonished if anyone else has access to any of the drafts. When the joint opinion in
Casey was being drafted, the Justices drafted the language themselves from scratch specifically so that no one else would have access.
Many lawyers, particularly those who went to top schools, know these facts because many of us considered, or at least dreamed about, applying for one of those clerkships, and those of us who had jobs at prestigious firms had colleagues who had obtained one of them. --Bob
Re: Roe v Wade overturned?
Posted: Wed May 04, 2022 5:18 pm
by kroxquo
flockofseagulls104 wrote: ↑Wed May 04, 2022 2:21 pm
kroxquo wrote: ↑Wed May 04, 2022 2:06 pm
So now that Conservatives are on the brink of overturning Roe to protect children, I am sure they will also line up behind other issues that will benefit children such as increasing funding for head start, pre-K for all students, medicaid for all, sensible and realistic sex education (abstinence only is neither of those things), making birth control cheaper and more readily available, and expansion of the food stamp program. I think that if they cannot back these, then overturning Roe was just a way to impose their morality on the women of this country.
Krox, I think you're going off the deep end and showing you are NOT the moderate that you may have been presenting yourself as. Almost all of those suggestions are on the progressive wish list and almost all expand the power and influence of the Federal Government.
As I'm sure you know, overturning Roe v Wade will not in any way do away with abortions. The only difference is that the individual states will get to decide what restrictions apply. I don't know why bob would be in any way concerned about it. In California I'm sure they will make it even easier for any woman to get an abortion any time they want to. The taxpayers will probably pay for everything, and they will probably offer to fly in people from other countries to have an abortion in CA.
The world is not going to end. What food stamps have to do with this, I really don't get, Krox
You are correct on one thing. Abortions are not going to go away. What is going away are safe and legal abortions. Women (and the fetuses they are carrying) are going to die because of this. So if the governments of various states decide that they are going to make as difficult as possible to get an abortion, then presumably they will want them to have their babies. And since this disproportionately affects the poor and people of color, it makes sense for these babies to have a fair chance. If we are going to make it difficult for women NOT to have children, then can we make it easier to raise the ones they do have?
Re: Roe v Wade overturned?
Posted: Wed May 04, 2022 5:55 pm
by Beebs52
kroxquo wrote: ↑Wed May 04, 2022 5:18 pm
flockofseagulls104 wrote: ↑Wed May 04, 2022 2:21 pm
kroxquo wrote: ↑Wed May 04, 2022 2:06 pm
So now that Conservatives are on the brink of overturning Roe to protect children, I am sure they will also line up behind other issues that will benefit children such as increasing funding for head start, pre-K for all students, medicaid for all, sensible and realistic sex education (abstinence only is neither of those things), making birth control cheaper and more readily available, and expansion of the food stamp program. I think that if they cannot back these, then overturning Roe was just a way to impose their morality on the women of this country.
Krox, I think you're going off the deep end and showing you are NOT the moderate that you may have been presenting yourself as. Almost all of those suggestions are on the progressive wish list and almost all expand the power and influence of the Federal Government.
As I'm sure you know, overturning Roe v Wade will not in any way do away with abortions. The only difference is that the individual states will get to decide what restrictions apply. I don't know why bob would be in any way concerned about it. In California I'm sure they will make it even easier for any woman to get an abortion any time they want to. The taxpayers will probably pay for everything, and they will probably offer to fly in people from other countries to have an abortion in CA.
The world is not going to end. What food stamps have to do with this, I really don't get, Krox
You are correct on one thing. Abortions are not going to go away. What is going away are safe and legal abortions. Women (and the fetuses they are carrying) are going to die because of this. So if the governments of various states decide that they are going to make as difficult as possible to get an abortion, then presumably they will want them to have their babies. And since this disproportionately affects the poor and people of color, it makes sense for these babies to have a fair chance. If we are going to make it difficult for women NOT to have children,then can we make it easier to raise the ones they do have?
Yes. It's called fucking birth control which is totally accessible. What is hard about that concept?
Re: Roe v Wade overturned?
Posted: Wed May 04, 2022 6:03 pm
by flockofseagulls104
kroxquo wrote: ↑Wed May 04, 2022 5:18 pm
flockofseagulls104 wrote: ↑Wed May 04, 2022 2:21 pm
kroxquo wrote: ↑Wed May 04, 2022 2:06 pm
So now that Conservatives are on the brink of overturning Roe to protect children, I am sure they will also line up behind other issues that will benefit children such as increasing funding for head start, pre-K for all students, medicaid for all, sensible and realistic sex education (abstinence only is neither of those things), making birth control cheaper and more readily available, and expansion of the food stamp program. I think that if they cannot back these, then overturning Roe was just a way to impose their morality on the women of this country.
Krox, I think you're going off the deep end and showing you are NOT the moderate that you may have been presenting yourself as. Almost all of those suggestions are on the progressive wish list and almost all expand the power and influence of the Federal Government.
As I'm sure you know, overturning Roe v Wade will not in any way do away with abortions. The only difference is that the individual states will get to decide what restrictions apply. I don't know why bob would be in any way concerned about it. In California I'm sure they will make it even easier for any woman to get an abortion any time they want to. The taxpayers will probably pay for everything, and they will probably offer to fly in people from other countries to have an abortion in CA.
The world is not going to end. What food stamps have to do with this, I really don't get, Krox
You are correct on one thing. Abortions are not going to go away. What is going away are safe and legal abortions. Women (and the fetuses they are carrying) are going to die because of this. So if the governments of various states decide that they are going to make as difficult as possible to get an abortion, then presumably they will want them to have their babies. And since this disproportionately affects the poor and people of color, it makes sense for these babies to have a fair chance. If we are going to make it difficult for women NOT to have children, then can we make it easier to raise the ones they do have?
Krox, sadly, you are now just quoting from leftist talking points.
Roe v Wade did NOT solve any of these problems, and overturning Roe v Wade won't either.
In reality, I think, but I could be wrong, there will be no state that would make all abortions completely illegal. I don't think that would or could happen. It's only a scare tactic that you are going along with.
If we had a cultural shift campaign to emphasize personal responsibility as large as the one for LGBTQ rights, that would be going in the right direction, because that is the only way to
solve the problem.
BTW, I understand that the left's role model, western Europe, mostly has much more restrictive abortion regulations than the US does. We are apparently the leader in this area.
Re: Roe v Wade overturned?
Posted: Wed May 04, 2022 6:04 pm
by Beebs52
Plus, why would you want your uterus repeatedly scraped out rather thsn take a pill or have an iud?
Re: Roe v Wade overturned?
Posted: Wed May 04, 2022 6:12 pm
by flockofseagulls104
Beebs52 wrote: ↑Wed May 04, 2022 6:04 pm
Plus, why would you want your uterus repeatedly scraped out rather thsn take a pill or have an iud?
Here's a solution worthy of Washington DC. (Not that I am promoting it.)
In exchange for mandating semi-annual Covid booster shots, require the drug companies to provide free birth control on demand.
Our bodies, no choice, but with benefits, at least.
Schumer, Pelosi, get to work on that one. Quickly, before you're gone.
Re: Roe v Wade overturned?
Posted: Wed May 04, 2022 6:14 pm
by tlynn78
Beebs52 wrote: ↑Wed May 04, 2022 5:55 pm
kroxquo wrote: ↑Wed May 04, 2022 5:18 pm
flockofseagulls104 wrote: ↑Wed May 04, 2022 2:21 pm
Krox, I think you're going off the deep end and showing you are NOT the moderate that you may have been presenting yourself as. Almost all of those suggestions are on the progressive wish list and almost all expand the power and influence of the Federal Government.
As I'm sure you know, overturning Roe v Wade will not in any way do away with abortions. The only difference is that the individual states will get to decide what restrictions apply. I don't know why bob would be in any way concerned about it. In California I'm sure they will make it even easier for any woman to get an abortion any time they want to. The taxpayers will probably pay for everything, and they will probably offer to fly in people from other countries to have an abortion in CA.
The world is not going to end. What food stamps have to do with this, I really don't get, Krox
You are correct on one thing. Abortions are not going to go away. What is going away are safe and legal abortions. Women (and the fetuses they are carrying) are going to die because of this. So if the governments of various states decide that they are going to make as difficult as possible to get an abortion, then presumably they will want them to have their babies. And since this disproportionately affects the poor and people of color, it makes sense for these babies to have a fair chance. If we are going to make it difficult for women NOT to have children,then can we make it easier to raise the ones they do have?
Yes. It's called fucking birth control which is totally accessible. What is hard about that concept?
Doesn't feed the narrative. C'mon, man.
Re: Roe v Wade overturned?
Posted: Wed May 04, 2022 6:16 pm
by flockofseagulls104
tlynn78 wrote: ↑Wed May 04, 2022 6:14 pm
Beebs52 wrote: ↑Wed May 04, 2022 5:55 pm
kroxquo wrote: ↑Wed May 04, 2022 5:18 pm
You are correct on one thing. Abortions are not going to go away. What is going away are safe and legal abortions. Women (and the fetuses they are carrying) are going to die because of this. So if the governments of various states decide that they are going to make as difficult as possible to get an abortion, then presumably they will want them to have their babies. And since this disproportionately affects the poor and people of color, it makes sense for these babies to have a fair chance. If we are going to make it difficult for women NOT to have children,then can we make it easier to raise the ones they do have?
Yes. It's called fucking birth control which is totally accessible. What is hard about that concept?
Doesn't feed the narrative. C'mon, man.
Did beebs go trans while I wasn't looking? What pronouns are we supposed to use?
Re: Roe v Wade overturned?
Posted: Wed May 04, 2022 6:20 pm
by Beebs52
flockofseagulls104 wrote: ↑Wed May 04, 2022 6:16 pm
tlynn78 wrote: ↑Wed May 04, 2022 6:14 pm
Beebs52 wrote: ↑Wed May 04, 2022 5:55 pm
Yes. It's called fucking birth control which is totally accessible. What is hard about that concept?
Doesn't feed the narrative. C'mon, man.
Did beebs go trans while I wasn't looking? What pronouns are we supposed to use?
Biden phrase dude
Re: Roe v Wade overturned?
Posted: Wed May 04, 2022 6:24 pm
by flockofseagulls104
Beebs52 wrote: ↑Wed May 04, 2022 6:20 pm
flockofseagulls104 wrote: ↑Wed May 04, 2022 6:16 pm
tlynn78 wrote: ↑Wed May 04, 2022 6:14 pm
Doesn't feed the narrative. C'mon, man.
Did beebs go trans while I wasn't looking? What pronouns are we supposed to use?
Biden phrase dude
Well, had to ask. Can't risk putting you in deep despair and ruining your life because I referred to you incorrectly.
Re: Roe v Wade overturned?
Posted: Wed May 04, 2022 6:32 pm
by Beebs52
flockofseagulls104 wrote: ↑Wed May 04, 2022 6:24 pm
Beebs52 wrote: ↑Wed May 04, 2022 6:20 pm
flockofseagulls104 wrote: ↑Wed May 04, 2022 6:16 pm
Did beebs go trans while I wasn't looking? What pronouns are we supposed to use?
Biden phrase dude
Well, had to ask. Can't risk putting you in deep despair and ruining your life because I referred to you incorrectly.
You may refer to me as She-Rah.
Re: Roe v Wade overturned?
Posted: Wed May 04, 2022 6:38 pm
by flockofseagulls104
Why don't they ever get on Biden for 'C'mon MAN'?
Re: Roe v Wade overturned?
Posted: Wed May 04, 2022 6:51 pm
by Bob Juch
Beebs52 wrote: ↑Wed May 04, 2022 5:55 pm
kroxquo wrote: ↑Wed May 04, 2022 5:18 pm
flockofseagulls104 wrote: ↑Wed May 04, 2022 2:21 pm
Krox, I think you're going off the deep end and showing you are NOT the moderate that you may have been presenting yourself as. Almost all of those suggestions are on the progressive wish list and almost all expand the power and influence of the Federal Government.
As I'm sure you know, overturning Roe v Wade will not in any way do away with abortions. The only difference is that the individual states will get to decide what restrictions apply. I don't know why bob would be in any way concerned about it. In California I'm sure they will make it even easier for any woman to get an abortion any time they want to. The taxpayers will probably pay for everything, and they will probably offer to fly in people from other countries to have an abortion in CA.
The world is not going to end. What food stamps have to do with this, I really don't get, Krox
You are correct on one thing. Abortions are not going to go away. What is going away are safe and legal abortions. Women (and the fetuses they are carrying) are going to die because of this. So if the governments of various states decide that they are going to make as difficult as possible to get an abortion, then presumably they will want them to have their babies. And since this disproportionately affects the poor and people of color, it makes sense for these babies to have a fair chance. If we are going to make it difficult for women NOT to have children,then can we make it easier to raise the ones they do have?
Yes. It's called fucking birth control which is totally accessible. What is hard about that concept?
12-year-old girl to her rapist, "I'm not on birth control. Please wait until I have an IUD inserted."
Re: Roe v Wade overturned?
Posted: Wed May 04, 2022 7:01 pm
by flockofseagulls104
BJ, I guess it has to be spelled out to people like you. The whole idea is to eliminate abortion AS A FORM OF BIRTH CONTROL. All sane proposals I have seen make exceptions for rape and for the health of the mother. I know it's difficult with a subject like this where you've been brainwashed for half your life, but try very hard to get real.
Re: Roe v Wade overturned?
Posted: Wed May 04, 2022 7:05 pm
by flockofseagulls104
Find rapists, convict them and take them OUT of society one way or another.
(This INTERNAL SERVER ERROR thing is getting to be a pain in the azz.)
Re: Roe v Wade overturned?
Posted: Wed May 04, 2022 7:09 pm
by Beebs52
Bob Juch wrote: ↑Wed May 04, 2022 6:51 pm
Beebs52 wrote: ↑Wed May 04, 2022 5:55 pm
kroxquo wrote: ↑Wed May 04, 2022 5:18 pm
You are correct on one thing. Abortions are not going to go away. What is going away are safe and legal abortions. Women (and the fetuses they are carrying) are going to die because of this. So if the governments of various states decide that they are going to make as difficult as possible to get an abortion, then presumably they will want them to have their babies. And since this disproportionately affects the poor and people of color, it makes sense for these babies to have a fair chance. If we are going to make it difficult for women NOT to have children,then can we make it easier to raise the ones they do have?
Yes. It's called fucking birth control which is totally accessible. What is hard about that concept?
12-year-old girl to her rapist, "I'm not on birth control. Please wait until I have an IUD inserted."
I didn't say there weren't specific circumstances that would need to be allowed. Asshole. I referenced elective abortions. Don't assume things you don't know. Asshole.
Re: Roe v Wade overturned?
Posted: Wed May 04, 2022 7:09 pm
by kroxquo
Beebs52 wrote: ↑Wed May 04, 2022 5:55 pm
kroxquo wrote: ↑Wed May 04, 2022 5:18 pm
flockofseagulls104 wrote: ↑Wed May 04, 2022 2:21 pm
Krox, I think you're going off the deep end and showing you are NOT the moderate that you may have been presenting yourself as. Almost all of those suggestions are on the progressive wish list and almost all expand the power and influence of the Federal Government.
As I'm sure you know, overturning Roe v Wade will not in any way do away with abortions. The only difference is that the individual states will get to decide what restrictions apply. I don't know why bob would be in any way concerned about it. In California I'm sure they will make it even easier for any woman to get an abortion any time they want to. The taxpayers will probably pay for everything, and they will probably offer to fly in people from other countries to have an abortion in CA.
The world is not going to end. What food stamps have to do with this, I really don't get, Krox
You are correct on one thing. Abortions are not going to go away. What is going away are safe and legal abortions. Women (and the fetuses they are carrying) are going to die because of this. So if the governments of various states decide that they are going to make as difficult as possible to get an abortion, then presumably they will want them to have their babies. And since this disproportionately affects the poor and people of color, it makes sense for these babies to have a fair chance. If we are going to make it difficult for women NOT to have children,then can we make it easier to raise the ones they do have?
Yes. It's called fucking birth control which is totally accessible. What is hard about that concept?
Oh, then you agree that we need sex education that informs students in middle school or even earlier about different forms of birth control, how they work, and how to access them; and to make it cheaper and more easily accessible.
Re: Roe v Wade overturned?
Posted: Wed May 04, 2022 7:12 pm
by Beebs52
kroxquo wrote: ↑Wed May 04, 2022 7:09 pm
Beebs52 wrote: ↑Wed May 04, 2022 5:55 pm
kroxquo wrote: ↑Wed May 04, 2022 5:18 pm
You are correct on one thing. Abortions are not going to go away. What is going away are safe and legal abortions. Women (and the fetuses they are carrying) are going to die because of this. So if the governments of various states decide that they are going to make as difficult as possible to get an abortion, then presumably they will want them to have their babies. And since this disproportionately affects the poor and people of color, it makes sense for these babies to have a fair chance. If we are going to make it difficult for women NOT to have children,then can we make it easier to raise the ones they do have?
Yes. It's called fucking birth control which is totally accessible. What is hard about that concept?
Oh, then you agree that we need sex education that informs students in middle school or even earlier about different forms of birth control, how they work, and how to access them; and to make it cheaper and more easily accessible.
Yep. At appropriate age. Most abortions are 20s etc. Refer to my response to Juch
Re: Roe v Wade overturned?
Posted: Wed May 04, 2022 7:17 pm
by flockofseagulls104
kroxquo wrote: ↑Wed May 04, 2022 7:09 pm
Beebs52 wrote: ↑Wed May 04, 2022 5:55 pm
kroxquo wrote: ↑Wed May 04, 2022 5:18 pm
You are correct on one thing. Abortions are not going to go away. What is going away are safe and legal abortions. Women (and the fetuses they are carrying) are going to die because of this. So if the governments of various states decide that they are going to make as difficult as possible to get an abortion, then presumably they will want them to have their babies. And since this disproportionately affects the poor and people of color, it makes sense for these babies to have a fair chance. If we are going to make it difficult for women NOT to have children,then can we make it easier to raise the ones they do have?
Yes. It's called fucking birth control which is totally accessible. What is hard about that concept?
Oh, then you agree that we need sex education that informs students in middle school or even earlier about different forms of birth control, how they work, and how to access them; and to make it cheaper and more easily accessible.
Yes, I would agree with the idea that should be taught to appropriate age levels as long as it includes the idea of PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY and the fact that a living human being is involved, not just a mass of cells.
I went to high school in the 1970's. I was pretty much shocked when I learned that the local high school, when I moved to Oregon, had its own day care center for the students. Is that the norm these days?