Roe v Wade overturned?

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Beebs52
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Re: Roe v Wade overturned?

#76 Post by Beebs52 » Thu May 05, 2022 11:12 am

wbtravis007 wrote:
Thu May 05, 2022 10:39 am
tlynn78 wrote:
Wed May 04, 2022 8:11 pm
Bob78164 wrote:
Wed May 04, 2022 7:49 pm
This is the fundamental disagreement that I doubt we'll ever be able to bridge. A fetus, particularly a first-trimester fetus, is not a "baby."

Weird, pretty sure I've never attended a fetus shower. Oh, and go fuck yourself. My first trimester miscarriage resulted in the death of my first child. Your opinion could not be less relevant.

It's just not, any more than is an unfertilized egg or a sperm cell.

If you dont comprehend the difference between a sperm cell or unfertilized egg, and a human embryo, well...i guess that wouldnt really surprise me.

It has not yet completed the climb from non-awareness to awareness, and it is wholly dependent on the body of an actual human being. --Bob
So is a newborn wholly dependant, a two week-old, a three month-old; you good to kill those, too?
I think most people totally get mourning the loss of a fetus by miscarriage, whatever the stage of development. And, I even get the viewpoint of those who would want to hold the women and doctors and others involved accountable for murder, if that's what one believes is occurring. That's just not the way that I look at it. Do any of y'all know women who have had an abortion whom you judge in that way? And, if so, I'd be curious to know whether you judge them all in that way, or just some of them.
I do get judgey about women who have multiple elective convenience abortions.
Well, then

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Re: Roe v Wade overturned?

#77 Post by Beebs52 » Thu May 05, 2022 11:17 am

Well, then

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Re: Roe v Wade overturned?

#78 Post by wbtravis007 » Thu May 05, 2022 11:37 am

Beebs52 wrote:
Thu May 05, 2022 11:12 am
wbtravis007 wrote:
Thu May 05, 2022 10:39 am
tlynn78 wrote:
Wed May 04, 2022 8:11 pm

So is a newborn wholly dependant, a two week-old, a three month-old; you good to kill those, too?
I think most people totally get mourning the loss of a fetus by miscarriage, whatever the stage of development. And, I even get the viewpoint of those who would want to hold the women and doctors and others involved accountable for murder, if that's what one believes is occurring. That's just not the way that I look at it. Do any of y'all know women who have had an abortion whom you judge in that way? And, if so, I'd be curious to know whether you judge them all in that way, or just some of them.
I do get judgey about women who have multiple elective convenience abortions.
Being in favor of making abortions illegal would suggest judginess extending beyond that category of women.

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Re: Roe v Wade overturned?

#79 Post by Beebs52 » Thu May 05, 2022 11:43 am

wbtravis007 wrote:
Thu May 05, 2022 11:37 am
Beebs52 wrote:
Thu May 05, 2022 11:12 am
wbtravis007 wrote:
Thu May 05, 2022 10:39 am


I think most people totally get mourning the loss of a fetus by miscarriage, whatever the stage of development. And, I even get the viewpoint of those who would want to hold the women and doctors and others involved accountable for murder, if that's what one believes is occurring. That's just not the way that I look at it. Do any of y'all know women who have had an abortion whom you judge in that way? And, if so, I'd be curious to know whether you judge them all in that way, or just some of them.
I do get judgey about women who have multiple elective convenience abortions.
Being in favor of making abortions illegal would suggest judginess extending beyond that category of women.
I have said in the past that I think there are situations where it shouldn't be illegal.
I do know someone who had an abortion back in the 70s. She regretted it. I did not judge her. Everyone makes mistakes, for whatever reason.
Well, then

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Re: Roe v Wade overturned?

#80 Post by flockofseagulls104 » Thu May 05, 2022 12:15 pm

Yeah, this is a debate that will have to happen in each state IF Roe is overturned.

There will be staunch and loud people on the extreme left screaming for unrestricted abortions and using whatever means available to get what they want.
There will be staunch and loud people on the extreme right screaming for NO abortions and using whatever means available to get what they want.
And there will be our extremely broken press and social media who will give the most voice to one of these extremes or the other. The middle will not be heard very much.
It will be very difficult to make any compromises or come up with a solution that will please or satisfy the most amount of people because of the noise.

But that is the world. There isn't, cannot be and will not be any utopia where everyone will be pleased.

Too bad we have forgotten how to have a civilized debate.
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Re: Roe v Wade overturned?

#81 Post by Bob Juch » Thu May 05, 2022 2:20 pm

At best, my biological mother had a one-night stand, maybe even was raped by my birth father. My adoption papers say "father unknown".

I probably wouldn't be writing this if abortion had been legal and easy to get in 1950. Still, I am pro-choice.
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Re: Roe v Wade overturned?

#82 Post by BackInTex » Thu May 05, 2022 10:40 pm

Bob Juch wrote:
Thu May 05, 2022 2:20 pm
At best, my biological mother had a one-night stand, maybe even was raped by my birth father. My adoption papers say "father unknown".

I probably wouldn't be writing this if abortion had been legal and easy to get in 1950. Still, I am pro-choice.
You don’t know who your birth father was?
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Re: Roe v Wade overturned?

#83 Post by Bob Juch » Thu May 05, 2022 10:54 pm

BackInTex wrote:
Thu May 05, 2022 10:40 pm
Bob Juch wrote:
Thu May 05, 2022 2:20 pm
At best, my biological mother had a one-night stand, maybe even was raped by my birth father. My adoption papers say "father unknown".

I probably wouldn't be writing this if abortion had been legal and easy to get in 1950. Still, I am pro-choice.
You don’t know who your birth father was?
Yes, I became a DNA detective. All of my Y-DNA matches had the surname Etter. That's helped narrow it down.
I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I needed to be.
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Re: Roe v Wade overturned?

#84 Post by wbtravis007 » Thu May 05, 2022 11:04 pm

BackInTex wrote:
Thu May 05, 2022 10:40 pm
Bob Juch wrote:
Thu May 05, 2022 2:20 pm
At best, my biological mother had a one-night stand, maybe even was raped by my birth father. My adoption papers say "father unknown".

I probably wouldn't be writing this if abortion had been legal and easy to get in 1950. Still, I am pro-choice.
You don’t know who your birth father was?
I don’t think that he addressed that. I’m curious about why you might care about whether he does or not.

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Re: Roe v Wade overturned?

#85 Post by Bob Juch » Fri May 06, 2022 7:57 am

Bob Juch wrote:
Thu May 05, 2022 10:54 pm
BackInTex wrote:
Thu May 05, 2022 10:40 pm
Bob Juch wrote:
Thu May 05, 2022 2:20 pm
At best, my biological mother had a one-night stand, maybe even was raped by my birth father. My adoption papers say "father unknown".

I probably wouldn't be writing this if abortion had been legal and easy to get in 1950. Still, I am pro-choice.
You don’t know who your birth father was?
Yes, I became a DNA detective. All of my Y-DNA matches had the surname Etter. That's helped narrow it down.
I was contacted by the daughter of my half-sister in Switzerland. Her mother was born in a small town and had no idea who her father was either. All my half-niece could find was that a Dixieland Jazz band was playing there at the time of her mother's conception; she thought her mother's father was a band member. When I found the obituary for Jackson Omer Etter, it mentioned that he was a Dixieland Jazz fan. He worked for a subsidiary of the Swizz company, Nestle, which might be why he was in Switzerland. That and his photo in the obituary convinced me he was the right Etter. Further DNA matches confirmed that. I won't be too surprised if another half-sibling appears.

I was aided in my research by PSM, who coincidently is a volunteer "DNA Search Angel".
I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I needed to be.
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Re: Roe v Wade overturned?

#86 Post by flockofseagulls104 » Fri May 06, 2022 8:16 am

I got a new cousin a couple of years ago.

My sister is into DNA searches and family history stuff. She found that there was this person who was a very close relation that we never heard of.
Apparently, my uncle was in training during WWII in Baltimore. That is where this close relation was born. This was before he married my aunt.
We don't think my uncle ever knew about his son. We contacted this close relation and he is the spitting image of my uncle.
This all happened after both my uncle and aunt had passed.
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Re: Roe v Wade overturned?

#87 Post by Bob Juch » Fri May 06, 2022 10:38 am

Image
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Re: Roe v Wade overturned?

#88 Post by flockofseagulls104 » Fri May 06, 2022 11:17 am

Here we go!

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/why-a ... ar-AAWZU9y

I'm sure that this will persuade a lot of people to change their minds on this issue.

Here is their website.

I have found their website. I may just infiltrate.
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Re: Roe v Wade overturned?

#89 Post by Beebs52 » Sun May 08, 2022 4:22 pm

From Wikipedia
"Due to her connection with Planned Parenthood, Sanger is a frequent target of criticism by opponents of abortion. However, Sanger drew a sharp distinction between birth control and abortion and was opposed to abortions throughout the bulk of her professional career, declining to participate in them as a nurse.[5] Sanger remains an admired figure in the American reproductive rights movement.[6] She has been criticized for supporting eugenics.[7]
She believed that, while abortion may be a viable option in life-threatening situations for the pregnant, it should generally be avoided.[11] She considered contraception the only practical way to avoid them.[12]
Sanger's eugenics policies included an exclusionary immigration policy, free access to birth control methods, and full family planning autonomy for the able-minded, as well as compulsory segregation or sterilization for the "profoundly retarded"

Some history
Well, then

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Re: Roe v Wade overturned?

#90 Post by Beebs52 » Mon May 09, 2022 4:54 pm

SSS "How soon we forget. Birth control has been around forever, but the laws in many states prohibited various forms of birth control. In 1965, Connecticut law made using birth control or advising someone on its use a crime punishable by up to a year in prison. The Supreme Court held in Griswold v. Connecticut that there was a constitutional right to privacy that the Connecticut law violated. (The Griswold decision only applied to married couples, but it was expanded to anyone a few years later in a similar case.)"

Um, we're in 2022. I took birth control pills throughout the 70s and up til I got pregnant with our first. I lived in Kansas during those years. This is very old news. There are other means as well. No reason to fuck around and get pregnant except for those "elective" things.
Well, then

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Re: Roe v Wade overturned?

#91 Post by silverscreenselect » Mon May 09, 2022 5:09 pm

Beebs52 wrote:
Mon May 09, 2022 4:54 pm
Um, we're in 2022. I took birth control pills throughout the 70s and up til I got pregnant with our first. I lived in Kansas during those years. This is very old news. There are other means as well. No reason to fuck around and get pregnant except for those "elective" things.
You're right that it's 2022, and if Roe gets overturned, state after state is going to look to turn the clock back to the 1960s, and that just might include a ban on contraception. Those laws were around in the 1960s.
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Re: Roe v Wade overturned?

#92 Post by Beebs52 » Mon May 09, 2022 5:12 pm

silverscreenselect wrote:
Mon May 09, 2022 5:09 pm
Beebs52 wrote:
Mon May 09, 2022 4:54 pm
Um, we're in 2022. I took birth control pills throughout the 70s and up til I got pregnant with our first. I lived in Kansas during those years. This is very old news. There are other means as well. No reason to fuck around and get pregnant except for those "elective" things.
You're right that it's 2022, and if Roe gets overturned, state after state is going to look to turn the clock back to the 1960s, and that just might include a ban on contraception. Those laws were around in the 1960s.
You know you're wrong. You're just hoping. Need to find another cause.
Well, then

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Re: Roe v Wade overturned?

#93 Post by Bob78164 » Mon May 09, 2022 5:34 pm

Beebs52 wrote:
Mon May 09, 2022 5:12 pm
silverscreenselect wrote:
Mon May 09, 2022 5:09 pm
Beebs52 wrote:
Mon May 09, 2022 4:54 pm
Um, we're in 2022. I took birth control pills throughout the 70s and up til I got pregnant with our first. I lived in Kansas during those years. This is very old news. There are other means as well. No reason to fuck around and get pregnant except for those "elective" things.
You're right that it's 2022, and if Roe gets overturned, state after state is going to look to turn the clock back to the 1960s, and that just might include a ban on contraception. Those laws were around in the 1960s.
You know you're wrong. You're just hoping. Need to find another cause.
He's right, Beebs. Griswold v. Connecticut was decided in 1965. Until then, it was illegal to buy a condom in Connecticut. (The Catholic Church had a lot of influence on the Connecticut state government.) I don't know that law has ever been formally repealed, and based on the draft opinion's stated reasoning for overruling Roe, I don't see how the Court can distinguish Griswold. --Bob
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Re: Roe v Wade overturned?

#94 Post by Beebs52 » Mon May 09, 2022 5:47 pm

I'm pretty sure were this all to revert back to the states contraceptuon would not be banned. Unless it would be induced abortions after a certain point etc. You really think condoms, iuds, sponges et al would be banned? Y'all are crazy.
Well, then

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Re: Roe v Wade overturned?

#95 Post by Bob78164 » Mon May 09, 2022 6:19 pm

Beebs52 wrote:
Mon May 09, 2022 5:47 pm
I'm pretty sure were this all to revert back to the states contraceptuon would not be banned. Unless it would be induced abortions after a certain point etc. You really think condoms, iuds, sponges et al would be banned? Y'all are crazy.
There are bills pending right now that would ban IUDs because they prevent implantation of the fertilized egg. I'm not the crazy one -- that would be the Republican legislators who will be unleashed when Roe is reversed -- and denial ain't just a river in Egypt. --Bob
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Re: Roe v Wade overturned?

#96 Post by Beebs52 » Mon May 09, 2022 6:54 pm

Bob78164 wrote:
Mon May 09, 2022 6:19 pm
Beebs52 wrote:
Mon May 09, 2022 5:47 pm
I'm pretty sure were this all to revert back to the states contraceptuon would not be banned. Unless it would be induced abortions after a certain point etc. You really think condoms, iuds, sponges et al would be banned? Y'all are crazy.
There are bills pending right now that would ban IUDs because they prevent implantation of the fertilized egg. I'm not the crazy one -- that would be the Republican legislators who will be unleashed when Roe is reversed -- and denial ain't just a river in Egypt. --Bob
Where?
Well, then

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Re: Roe v Wade overturned?

#97 Post by SportsFan68 » Mon May 09, 2022 7:16 pm

Beebs52 wrote:
Wed May 04, 2022 7:54 pm
Bob78164 wrote:
Wed May 04, 2022 7:49 pm
Beebs52 wrote:
Wed May 04, 2022 7:25 pm
Who knows. But at least they didn't kill their babies. So there's that.
This is the fundamental disagreement that I doubt we'll ever be able to bridge. A fetus, particularly a first-trimester fetus, is not a "baby." It's just not, any more than is an unfertilized egg or a sperm cell. It has not yet completed the climb from non-awareness to awareness, and it is wholly dependent on the body of an actual human being. --Bob
You're right. This is the disagreement. Whole key to it all. And, he who prevails wins. He, in the old timey way of use, not binary, cis, bullshit way, of statement. You're an atheist. I am not. Babe is a being. C'est la vie. For real. Deal.

Plus there's that last trimester abortion thing that, oh, Colorado, just voted in. Hmmm
No, this Colorado law does not allow abortions ‘up until the moment of birth’ Here's the URL:

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2 ... until-mom/
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Re: Roe v Wade overturned?

#98 Post by Beebs52 » Mon May 09, 2022 7:37 pm

SportsFan68 wrote:
Mon May 09, 2022 7:16 pm
Beebs52 wrote:
Wed May 04, 2022 7:54 pm
Bob78164 wrote:
Wed May 04, 2022 7:49 pm
This is the fundamental disagreement that I doubt we'll ever be able to bridge. A fetus, particularly a first-trimester fetus, is not a "baby." It's just not, any more than is an unfertilized egg or a sperm cell. It has not yet completed the climb from non-awareness to awareness, and it is wholly dependent on the body of an actual human being. --Bob
You're right. This is the disagreement. Whole key to it all. And, he who prevails wins. He, in the old timey way of use, not binary, cis, bullshit way, of statement. You're an atheist. I am not. Babe is a being. C'est la vie. For real. Deal.

Plus there's that last trimester abortion thing that, oh, Colorado, just voted in. Hmmm
No, this Colorado law does not allow abortions ‘up until the moment of birth’ Here's the URL:

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2 ... until-mom/
Colorado’s law protects the right to have an abortion and does not make distinctions or regulations around a time or stage during pregnancy.

I'm confused. Does that not say what I stated?
Well, then

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Re: Roe v Wade overturned?

#99 Post by Bob78164 » Mon May 09, 2022 7:39 pm

Beebs52 wrote:
Mon May 09, 2022 6:54 pm
Bob78164 wrote:
Mon May 09, 2022 6:19 pm
Beebs52 wrote:
Mon May 09, 2022 5:47 pm
I'm pretty sure were this all to revert back to the states contraceptuon would not be banned. Unless it would be induced abortions after a certain point etc. You really think condoms, iuds, sponges et al would be banned? Y'all are crazy.
There are bills pending right now that would ban IUDs because they prevent implantation of the fertilized egg. I'm not the crazy one -- that would be the Republican legislators who will be unleashed when Roe is reversed -- and denial ain't just a river in Egypt. --Bob
Where?
This one in Louisiana, for one, which has cleared its committee on a 7-2 vote. Any other bill that gives a fertilized egg all of the civil rights of a human being would have the same effect, as well as barring in vitro fertilization (because many fertilized eggs are discarded in the process). --Bob
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Re: Roe v Wade overturned?

#100 Post by SportsFan68 » Mon May 09, 2022 7:44 pm

MsKing insists that contraception is preferable to abortion, and Colorado lawmakers agreed. But for a brief time, Colorado's Republican lawmakers preferred abortion to contraception. That's my reading, anyway, since Republican state senators tried to kill a highly successful program which prevented many unwanted pregnancies and the subsequent abortions which could have resulted. Here's the article, dated May 6, 2015.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... epublicans

Colorado contraception program was a huge success – but the GOP is scrapping it

Over the past seven years, Colorado has run an experiment to see if it could lower the rate of unintended pregnancies, cut abortions – and save the state government some money, too.

The Colorado Family Planning Initiative (CFPI) offered low-income women and teenagers access to low or no-cost contraceptive devices, including IUDs and implants, and trained providers in insertion and counselling techniques. Last year, researchers reported significant drops in the birth rate among teens and young adult women in participating counties. The abortion rate among women between 15 and 19 years old dropped by more than a third; high-risk pregnancies by a fourth.

In July the governor’s office issued a glowing press release, crediting the program with a 40% statewide drop in teen birth rates between 2009 and 2013 – and a 35% drop in abortions.

But, despite the program’s widely reported successes, last Wednesday Colorado’s Republican-controlled senate killed a bill that would sustain and expand CFPI services.

“Unfortunately, family planning is a political issue and science and data gets trumped by ideology,” Greta Klingler, who works for the Colorado department of public health and environment, and who authored the CFPI report, told the Guardian.

. . .

Last Monday, the bill passed the Colorado house with bipartisan support.

“If you’re anti-abortion and also a fiscal conservative, I think this is a win-win situation for you,” Don Coram, a conservative Republican in the Colorado House who supported the bill, told NPR.
*

But, two days later, the bill was shut down in senate committee.

. . .


* More on Coram elsewhere, if the subject of Lauren Boebert arises.

The program has since been reinstated, with MsKing's beneficial effects of contraception returning.
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