Roe v Wade overturned?

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Beebs52
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Re: Roe v Wade overturned?

#51 Post by Beebs52 » Wed May 04, 2022 7:17 pm

From CDC In 2019, 629,898 legal induced abortions were reported to CDC from 49 reporting areas. Among 48 reporting areas with data each year during 2010–2019, in 2019, a total of 625,346 abortions were reported, the abortion rate was 11.4 abortions per 1,000 women aged 15–44 years, and the abortion ratio was 195 abortions per 1,000 live births.
Well, then

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Re: Roe v Wade overturned?

#52 Post by Bob78164 » Wed May 04, 2022 7:20 pm

flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Wed May 04, 2022 7:01 pm
BJ, I guess it has to be spelled out to people like you. The whole idea is to eliminate abortion AS A FORM OF BIRTH CONTROL. All sane proposals I have seen make exceptions for rape and for the health of the mother. I know it's difficult with a subject like this where you've been brainwashed for half your life, but try very hard to get real.
Then there are many states that have adopted proposals that you believe to be insane, which will take immediate effect if and when the Supreme Court issues its final ruling reversing Roe. Most current proposals DO NOT contain exceptions for rape or incest. --Bob
"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear." Thomas Jefferson

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Re: Roe v Wade overturned?

#53 Post by Beebs52 » Wed May 04, 2022 7:22 pm

Bob78164 wrote:
Wed May 04, 2022 7:20 pm
flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Wed May 04, 2022 7:01 pm
BJ, I guess it has to be spelled out to people like you. The whole idea is to eliminate abortion AS A FORM OF BIRTH CONTROL. All sane proposals I have seen make exceptions for rape and for the health of the mother. I know it's difficult with a subject like this where you've been brainwashed for half your life, but try very hard to get real.
Then there are many states that have adopted proposals that you believe to be insane, which will take immediate effect if and when the Supreme Court issues its final ruling reversing Roe. Most current proposals DO NOT contain exceptions for rape or incest. --Bob
Then move.
Well, then

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Re: Roe v Wade overturned?

#54 Post by Beebs52 » Wed May 04, 2022 7:25 pm

flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Wed May 04, 2022 7:17 pm
kroxquo wrote:
Wed May 04, 2022 7:09 pm
Beebs52 wrote:
Wed May 04, 2022 5:55 pm

Yes. It's called fucking birth control which is totally accessible. What is hard about that concept?
Oh, then you agree that we need sex education that informs students in middle school or even earlier about different forms of birth control, how they work, and how to access them; and to make it cheaper and more easily accessible.
Yes, I would agree with the idea that should be taught to appropriate age levels as long as it includes the idea of PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY and the fact that a living human being is involved, not just a mass of cells.

I went to high school in the 1970's. I was pretty much shocked when I learned that the local high school, when I moved to Oregon, had its own day care center for the students. Is that the norm these days?
Who knows. But at least they didn't kill their babies. So there's that.
Well, then

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Re: Roe v Wade overturned?

#55 Post by Beebs52 » Wed May 04, 2022 7:32 pm

Birth control has been around forever. No excuse to not use it, unless you have (insert whatever medical blah). Please. Won't effect the 600,000 elective percentage.
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Re: Roe v Wade overturned?

#56 Post by flockofseagulls104 » Wed May 04, 2022 7:43 pm

Bob78164 wrote:
Wed May 04, 2022 7:20 pm
flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Wed May 04, 2022 7:01 pm
BJ, I guess it has to be spelled out to people like you. The whole idea is to eliminate abortion AS A FORM OF BIRTH CONTROL. All sane proposals I have seen make exceptions for rape and for the health of the mother. I know it's difficult with a subject like this where you've been brainwashed for half your life, but try very hard to get real.
Then there are many states that have adopted proposals that you believe to be insane, which will take immediate effect if and when the Supreme Court issues its final ruling reversing Roe. Most current proposals DO NOT contain exceptions for rape or incest. --Bob
SOME apparently currently do not contain exceptions for rape and incest. I see that's true. I think it will be a different landscape if Roe is overturned. Regardless, we are currently a federation, and it will be up to the individual states to determine what restrictions are imposed. I personally believe in exceptions for rape and incest as well as for the health of the mother. But the citizens of that state certainly do have a say in that.
But I'm sure, bob, your state will have no restrictions. I wouldn't be surprised if your state allowed abortions until the child's first birthday.
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Re: Roe v Wade overturned?

#57 Post by Bob Juch » Wed May 04, 2022 7:46 pm

Have you not been reading the new laws? They have no exception for rape and incest.
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Re: Roe v Wade overturned?

#58 Post by Bob78164 » Wed May 04, 2022 7:49 pm

Beebs52 wrote:
Wed May 04, 2022 7:25 pm
flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Wed May 04, 2022 7:17 pm
kroxquo wrote:
Wed May 04, 2022 7:09 pm
Oh, then you agree that we need sex education that informs students in middle school or even earlier about different forms of birth control, how they work, and how to access them; and to make it cheaper and more easily accessible.
Yes, I would agree with the idea that should be taught to appropriate age levels as long as it includes the idea of PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY and the fact that a living human being is involved, not just a mass of cells.

I went to high school in the 1970's. I was pretty much shocked when I learned that the local high school, when I moved to Oregon, had its own day care center for the students. Is that the norm these days?
Who knows. But at least they didn't kill their babies. So there's that.
This is the fundamental disagreement that I doubt we'll ever be able to bridge. A fetus, particularly a first-trimester fetus, is not a "baby." It's just not, any more than is an unfertilized egg or a sperm cell. It has not yet completed the climb from non-awareness to awareness, and it is wholly dependent on the body of an actual human being. --Bob
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Re: Roe v Wade overturned?

#59 Post by Beebs52 » Wed May 04, 2022 7:54 pm

Bob78164 wrote:
Wed May 04, 2022 7:49 pm
Beebs52 wrote:
Wed May 04, 2022 7:25 pm
flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Wed May 04, 2022 7:17 pm
Yes, I would agree with the idea that should be taught to appropriate age levels as long as it includes the idea of PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY and the fact that a living human being is involved, not just a mass of cells.

I went to high school in the 1970's. I was pretty much shocked when I learned that the local high school, when I moved to Oregon, had its own day care center for the students. Is that the norm these days?
Who knows. But at least they didn't kill their babies. So there's that.
This is the fundamental disagreement that I doubt we'll ever be able to bridge. A fetus, particularly a first-trimester fetus, is not a "baby." It's just not, any more than is an unfertilized egg or a sperm cell. It has not yet completed the climb from non-awareness to awareness, and it is wholly dependent on the body of an actual human being. --Bob
You're right. This is the disagreement. Whole key to it all. And, he who prevails wins. He, in the old timey way of use, not binary, cis, bullshit way, of statement. You're an atheist. I am not. Babe is a being. C'est la vie. For real. Deal.

Plus there's that last trimester abortion thing that, oh, Colorado, just voted in. Hmmm
Well, then

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Re: Roe v Wade overturned?

#60 Post by flockofseagulls104 » Wed May 04, 2022 7:59 pm

Bob78164 wrote:
Wed May 04, 2022 7:49 pm
Beebs52 wrote:
Wed May 04, 2022 7:25 pm
flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Wed May 04, 2022 7:17 pm
Yes, I would agree with the idea that should be taught to appropriate age levels as long as it includes the idea of PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY and the fact that a living human being is involved, not just a mass of cells.

I went to high school in the 1970's. I was pretty much shocked when I learned that the local high school, when I moved to Oregon, had its own day care center for the students. Is that the norm these days?
Who knows. But at least they didn't kill their babies. So there's that.
This is the fundamental disagreement that I doubt we'll ever be able to bridge. A fetus, particularly a first-trimester fetus, is not a "baby." It's just not, any more than is an unfertilized egg or a sperm cell. It has not yet completed the climb from non-awareness to awareness, and it is wholly dependent on the body of an actual human being. --Bob
That would be a FEMALE human being, bob. We should go with the science, right?
And by what qualifications do YOU get to determine what a 'baby' is? Many, many people disagree with your pronouncement, bob. Should they get censored for spreading disinformation?
Some people believe it is when a heartbeat starts. Some people base it on when, based on current medical science, a baby is viable outside the womb. And some believe it is when an egg and sperm are fused together.
So I believe that if Roe is overturned, it WILL be a relevant question to state candidates what their position is on this issue, where for many years it hasn't been.
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Re: Roe v Wade overturned?

#61 Post by tlynn78 » Wed May 04, 2022 8:02 pm

Bob78164 wrote:
Wed May 04, 2022 7:49 pm
Beebs52 wrote:
Wed May 04, 2022 7:25 pm
flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Wed May 04, 2022 7:17 pm
Yes, I would agree with the idea that should be taught to appropriate age levels as long as it includes the idea of PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY and the fact that a living human being is involved, not just a mass of cells.

I went to high school in the 1970's. I was pretty much shocked when I learned that the local high school, when I moved to Oregon, had its own day care center for the students. Is that the norm these days?
Who knows. But at least they didn't kill their babies. So there's that.
This is the fundamental disagreement that I doubt we'll ever be able to bridge. A fetus, particularly a first-trimester fetus, is not a "baby." It's just not, any more than is an unfertilized egg or a sperm cell. It has not yet completed the climb from non-awareness to awareness, and it is wholly dependent on the body of an actual human being. --Bob
Biggest line of bullshit you've shoveled here, and that's saying something.
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Re: Roe v Wade overturned?

#62 Post by tlynn78 » Wed May 04, 2022 8:11 pm

Bob78164 wrote:
Wed May 04, 2022 7:49 pm
Beebs52 wrote:
Wed May 04, 2022 7:25 pm
flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Wed May 04, 2022 7:17 pm
Yes, I would agree with the idea that should be taught to appropriate age levels as long as it includes the idea of PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY and the fact that a living human being is involved, not just a mass of cells.

I went to high school in the 1970's. I was pretty much shocked when I learned that the local high school, when I moved to Oregon, had its own day care center for the students. Is that the norm these days?
Who knows. But at least they didn't kill their babies. So there's that.
This is the fundamental disagreement that I doubt we'll ever be able to bridge. A fetus, particularly a first-trimester fetus, is not a "baby."

Weird, pretty sure I've never attended a fetus shower. Oh, and go fuck yourself. My first trimester miscarriage resulted in the death of my first child. Your opinion could not be less relevant.

It's just not, any more than is an unfertilized egg or a sperm cell.

If you dont comprehend the difference between a sperm cell or unfertilized egg, and a human embryo, well...i guess that wouldnt really surprise me.

It has not yet completed the climb from non-awareness to awareness, and it is wholly dependent on the body of an actual human being. --Bob
So is a newborn wholly dependant, a two week-old, a three month-old; you good to kill those, too?
To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead. -Thomas Paine
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Re: Roe v Wade overturned?

#63 Post by flockofseagulls104 » Wed May 04, 2022 8:15 pm

tlynn78 wrote:
Wed May 04, 2022 8:02 pm
Bob78164 wrote:
Wed May 04, 2022 7:49 pm
Beebs52 wrote:
Wed May 04, 2022 7:25 pm
Who knows. But at least they didn't kill their babies. So there's that.
This is the fundamental disagreement that I doubt we'll ever be able to bridge. A fetus, particularly a first-trimester fetus, is not a "baby." It's just not, any more than is an unfertilized egg or a sperm cell. It has not yet completed the climb from non-awareness to awareness, and it is wholly dependent on the body of an actual human being. --Bob
Biggest line of bullshit you've shoveled here, and that's saying something.
Pretty big, but there's others I would vote for....
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Re: Roe v Wade overturned?

#64 Post by flockofseagulls104 » Wed May 04, 2022 8:28 pm

The thing about bob is that he never says 'This is my opinion' or ' This is what I think'. He makes everything a pronouncement from above. I guess above average lawyers are trained that way.
Your friendly neighborhood racist. On the waiting list to be a nazi. Designated an honorary 'snowflake'. Trolled by the very best, as well as by BJ. Always typical, unlike others.., Fulminator, Hopelessly in the tank for trump... inappropriate... Flocking himself... Probably a tucking sexist, too... All thought comes from the right wing noise machine(TM)... A clear and present threat to The Future Of Our Democracy.. Doesn't understand anything... Made the trump apologist and enabler playoffs... Heathen bastard... Knows nothing about history... Liar.... don't know much about statistics and polling... Nothing at all about biology... Ignorant Bigot... Potential Future Pariah... Big Nerd

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Re: Roe v Wade overturned?

#65 Post by BackInTex » Wed May 04, 2022 9:03 pm

Bob78164 wrote:
Wed May 04, 2022 7:49 pm
Beebs52 wrote:
Wed May 04, 2022 7:25 pm
flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Wed May 04, 2022 7:17 pm
Yes, I would agree with the idea that should be taught to appropriate age levels as long as it includes the idea of PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY and the fact that a living human being is involved, not just a mass of cells.

I went to high school in the 1970's. I was pretty much shocked when I learned that the local high school, when I moved to Oregon, had its own day care center for the students. Is that the norm these days?
Who knows. But at least they didn't kill their babies. So there's that.
This is the fundamental disagreement that I doubt we'll ever be able to bridge. A fetus, particularly a first-trimester fetus, is not a "baby." It's just not, any more than is an unfertilized egg or a sperm cell. It has not yet completed the climb from non-awareness to awareness, and it is wholly dependent on the body of an actual human being. --Bob
Hmmm….

Lots of folks during Covid were in hospital on ventilators, unaware and completely dependent on a machine, and humans to run them. Are you saying all that money was wasted. We shouldn’t have attempted to save the non-humans?
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Re: Roe v Wade overturned?

#66 Post by Bob Juch » Wed May 04, 2022 9:44 pm

Beebs52 wrote:
Wed May 04, 2022 7:54 pm
Bob78164 wrote:
Wed May 04, 2022 7:49 pm
Beebs52 wrote:
Wed May 04, 2022 7:25 pm
Who knows. But at least they didn't kill their babies. So there's that.
This is the fundamental disagreement that I doubt we'll ever be able to bridge. A fetus, particularly a first-trimester fetus, is not a "baby." It's just not, any more than is an unfertilized egg or a sperm cell. It has not yet completed the climb from non-awareness to awareness, and it is wholly dependent on the body of an actual human being. --Bob
You're right. This is the disagreement. Whole key to it all. And, he who prevails wins. He, in the old timey way of use, not binary, cis, bullshit way, of statement. You're an atheist. I am not. Babe is a being. C'est la vie. For real. Deal.

Plus there's that last trimester abortion thing that, oh, Colorado, just voted in. Hmmm
What does your Bible say about that?
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Si fractum non sit, noli id reficere.

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Re: Roe v Wade overturned?

#67 Post by Bob78164 » Wed May 04, 2022 9:45 pm

BackInTex wrote:
Wed May 04, 2022 9:03 pm
Bob78164 wrote:
Wed May 04, 2022 7:49 pm
Beebs52 wrote:
Wed May 04, 2022 7:25 pm
Who knows. But at least they didn't kill their babies. So there's that.
This is the fundamental disagreement that I doubt we'll ever be able to bridge. A fetus, particularly a first-trimester fetus, is not a "baby." It's just not, any more than is an unfertilized egg or a sperm cell. It has not yet completed the climb from non-awareness to awareness, and it is wholly dependent on the body of an actual human being. --Bob
Hmmm….

Lots of folks during Covid were in hospital on ventilators, unaware and completely dependent on a machine, and humans to run them. Are you saying all that money was wasted. We shouldn’t have attempted to save the non-humans?
Hmmm. Are you saying you'd be in favor of laws that prevent people from quitting the jobs running those machines on penalty of jail time? --Bob
"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear." Thomas Jefferson

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Re: Roe v Wade overturned?

#68 Post by silverscreenselect » Wed May 04, 2022 9:48 pm

flockofseagulls104 wrote:
Wed May 04, 2022 7:43 pm
But the citizens of that state certainly do have a say in that.
So when a state government through its legislature tells women what medical procedures they can and cannot have, that's the citizens of the government having their say.

But whenever the federal government through its elected representatives makes a decision that Flock does not like, it's evil government at work.
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Re: Roe v Wade overturned?

#69 Post by silverscreenselect » Wed May 04, 2022 10:02 pm

Beebs52 wrote:
Wed May 04, 2022 7:32 pm
Birth control has been around forever. No excuse to not use it, unless you have (insert whatever medical blah). Please. Won't effect the 600,000 elective percentage.
How soon we forget. Birth control has been around forever, but the laws in many states prohibited various forms of birth control. In 1965, Connecticut law made using birth control or advising someone on its use a crime punishable by up to a year in prison. The Supreme Court held in Griswold v. Connecticut that there was a constitutional right to privacy that the Connecticut law violated. (The Griswold decision only applied to married couples, but it was expanded to anyone a few years later in a similar case.)

That constitutional right to privacy is what the draft opinion in the Dobbs case rejects to allow them to overturn Roe. So if there is no such right, then states could start banning contraception or same-sex marriage or consensual sex acts or interracial marriage. And some conservative activists have already indicated they will try to do exactly that.
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Re: Roe v Wade overturned?

#70 Post by kroxquo » Thu May 05, 2022 6:24 am

Beebs52 wrote:
Wed May 04, 2022 7:12 pm
kroxquo wrote:
Wed May 04, 2022 7:09 pm
Beebs52 wrote:
Wed May 04, 2022 5:55 pm

Yes. It's called fucking birth control which is totally accessible. What is hard about that concept?
Oh, then you agree that we need sex education that informs students in middle school or even earlier about different forms of birth control, how they work, and how to access them; and to make it cheaper and more easily accessible.
Yep. At appropriate age. Most abortions are 20s etc. Refer to my response to Juch
What's an appropriate age? If you wait until high school, it's already too late. The mean age of first sexual intercourse is 15. At my school we have a pregnant sixth grader.
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Re: Roe v Wade overturned?

#71 Post by flockofseagulls104 » Thu May 05, 2022 6:46 am

kroxquo wrote:
Thu May 05, 2022 6:24 am
Beebs52 wrote:
Wed May 04, 2022 7:12 pm
kroxquo wrote:
Wed May 04, 2022 7:09 pm


Oh, then you agree that we need sex education that informs students in middle school or even earlier about different forms of birth control, how they work, and how to access them; and to make it cheaper and more easily accessible.
Yep. At appropriate age. Most abortions are 20s etc. Refer to my response to Juch
What's an appropriate age? If you wait until high school, it's already too late. The mean age of first sexual intercourse is 15. At my school we have a pregnant sixth grader.
Do your high schools have day care centers for the students?
Your friendly neighborhood racist. On the waiting list to be a nazi. Designated an honorary 'snowflake'. Trolled by the very best, as well as by BJ. Always typical, unlike others.., Fulminator, Hopelessly in the tank for trump... inappropriate... Flocking himself... Probably a tucking sexist, too... All thought comes from the right wing noise machine(TM)... A clear and present threat to The Future Of Our Democracy.. Doesn't understand anything... Made the trump apologist and enabler playoffs... Heathen bastard... Knows nothing about history... Liar.... don't know much about statistics and polling... Nothing at all about biology... Ignorant Bigot... Potential Future Pariah... Big Nerd

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Re: Roe v Wade overturned?

#72 Post by jarnon » Thu May 05, 2022 7:39 am

kroxquo wrote:
Thu May 05, 2022 6:24 am
If you wait until high school, it's already too late. The mean age of first sexual intercourse is 15. At my school we have a pregnant sixth grader.
I found this surprising from a statistical point of view. In the population as a whole, there's a subgroup that doesn't have sex until their 20s, plus a scattering of 40-year-old virgins. But there's nobody who's sexually active at 10 to bring the mean down to 15. This article explains the data:

Mean Age of First Sex: Do They Know What We Mean?

The studies focus on sexually active teenagers, so people who wait until adulthood don't drive up the mean. Now it makes sense.

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Re: Roe v Wade overturned?

#73 Post by Beebs52 » Thu May 05, 2022 9:09 am

kroxquo wrote:
Thu May 05, 2022 6:24 am
Beebs52 wrote:
Wed May 04, 2022 7:12 pm
kroxquo wrote:
Wed May 04, 2022 7:09 pm


Oh, then you agree that we need sex education that informs students in middle school or even earlier about different forms of birth control, how they work, and how to access them; and to make it cheaper and more easily accessible.
Yep. At appropriate age. Most abortions are 20s etc. Refer to my response to Juch
What's an appropriate age? If you wait until high school, it's already too late. The mean age of first sexual intercourse is 15. At my school we have a pregnant sixth grader.
I didn't mean start educating in the 20s. I seem to recall middle or jr high school when growing up. I would venture sex ed in 2nd grade would probably not have prevented the 6th grader's pregnancy. I had a "talk" with my mother sometime in grade school.
Well, then

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Re: Roe v Wade overturned?

#74 Post by flockofseagulls104 » Thu May 05, 2022 9:44 am

Beebs52 wrote:
Thu May 05, 2022 9:09 am
kroxquo wrote:
Thu May 05, 2022 6:24 am
Beebs52 wrote:
Wed May 04, 2022 7:12 pm

Yep. At appropriate age. Most abortions are 20s etc. Refer to my response to Juch
What's an appropriate age? If you wait until high school, it's already too late. The mean age of first sexual intercourse is 15. At my school we have a pregnant sixth grader.
I didn't mean start educating in the 20s. I seem to recall middle or jr high school when growing up. I would venture sex ed in 2nd grade would probably not have prevented the 6th grader's pregnancy. I had a "talk" with my mother sometime in grade school.
From my own point of view as I remember from my Jr high School days, Sex Education class was not really very effective. At that time, when you get into the teenage years, you start looking at your teachers the same way you start looking at all adults. They suddenly become something less than respected. They aren't cool. They're old and out of touch. They don't know what's really happening.
So our sex ed class was something of a joke for most of us.
I don't imagine, especially based on the current state of our society (Day Care for High School parents?) that Sex Ed Classes have become any more effective.
I don't remember ANY of my Jr High or High School classmates ever getting pregnant or any of my female classmates suddenly disappearing. I assume there may have been some, but none I knew about.
I know there was sex going on. But I know I was cognizant of the consequences and was as careful as I could be at the time. Birth Control was just becoming available, but not so much to high schoolers.
Even if you do have teachers teach this information, how do you make it relevant and not something for teenagers to joke about? Especially in today's culture?

You can teach it in school, but I think the message and the consequences are much more concrete if they are taught within the family.

One thing I knew: If I got a girl pregnant, there was going to be a LOT of hell to pay and a lot of problems. For me, my future, the girl's life and inside my family. Do today's high schoolers not know that?
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wbtravis007
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Re: Roe v Wade overturned?

#75 Post by wbtravis007 » Thu May 05, 2022 10:39 am

tlynn78 wrote:
Wed May 04, 2022 8:11 pm
Bob78164 wrote:
Wed May 04, 2022 7:49 pm
Beebs52 wrote:
Wed May 04, 2022 7:25 pm
Who knows. But at least they didn't kill their babies. So there's that.
This is the fundamental disagreement that I doubt we'll ever be able to bridge. A fetus, particularly a first-trimester fetus, is not a "baby."

Weird, pretty sure I've never attended a fetus shower. Oh, and go fuck yourself. My first trimester miscarriage resulted in the death of my first child. Your opinion could not be less relevant.

It's just not, any more than is an unfertilized egg or a sperm cell.

If you dont comprehend the difference between a sperm cell or unfertilized egg, and a human embryo, well...i guess that wouldnt really surprise me.

It has not yet completed the climb from non-awareness to awareness, and it is wholly dependent on the body of an actual human being. --Bob
So is a newborn wholly dependant, a two week-old, a three month-old; you good to kill those, too?
I think most people totally get mourning the loss of a fetus by miscarriage, whatever the stage of development. And, I even get the viewpoint of those who would want to hold the women and doctors and others involved accountable for murder, if that's what one believes is occurring. That's just not the way that I look at it. Do any of y'all know women who have had an abortion whom you judge in that way? And, if so, I'd be curious to know whether you judge them all in that way, or just some of them.

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