Supreme Court
- Beebs52
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Supreme Court
Regarding appointments to. I was under the impression that these people interpret the law strictly. Obviously past appts, both "conservative" and "liberal" have surprised party line peeps. That's a good thing.
I don't understand propounding appointing someone based on race or sex. The possible appointees may be eminently qualified, but I would think those appointees would be grossed out by that framework rather than their legal acumen.
I don't understand propounding appointing someone based on race or sex. The possible appointees may be eminently qualified, but I would think those appointees would be grossed out by that framework rather than their legal acumen.
Well, then
- Bob78164
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Re: Supreme Court
When deciding whether particular police conduct is "reasonable" (which is an issue that comes before the Court with some frequency), the perspective of a parent who's had to give their kids "The Talk" is probably different from the perspective of a parent who's never had that experience. Same for the perspective of people who have repeated experience with being stopped for "Driving While Black."Beebs52 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 26, 2022 5:51 pmRegarding appointments to. I was under the impression that these people interpret the law strictly. Obviously past appts, both "conservative" and "liberal" have surprised party line peeps. That's a good thing.
I don't understand propounding appointing someone based on race or sex. The possible appointees may be eminently qualified, but I would think those appointees would be grossed out by that framework rather than their legal acumen.
There is a lot of value to having both perspectives on the Court. --Bob
"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear." Thomas Jefferson
- Beebs52
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Re: Supreme Court
I do understand that. But it shouldn't affect a particular decision not involving that. And all decisions don't revolve around that. Do I make sense?Bob78164 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 26, 2022 5:57 pmWhen deciding whether particular police conduct is "reasonable" (which is an issue that comes before the Court with some frequency), the perspective of a parent who's had to give their kids "The Talk" is probably different from the perspective of a parent who's never had that experience. Same for the perspective of people who have repeated experience with being stopped for "Driving While Black."Beebs52 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 26, 2022 5:51 pmRegarding appointments to. I was under the impression that these people interpret the law strictly. Obviously past appts, both "conservative" and "liberal" have surprised party line peeps. That's a good thing.
I don't understand propounding appointing someone based on race or sex. The possible appointees may be eminently qualified, but I would think those appointees would be grossed out by that framework rather than their legal acumen.
There is a lot of value to having both perspectives on the Court. --Bob
Well, then
- Bob78164
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Re: Supreme Court
But in a surprising number of cases, the Court is fundamentally deciding what is "reasonable" or "undue." Having a broad swath of perspectives when making that decision matters (in my view) a lot. Remember, until 1981, every single Justice who ever served was a white man.Beebs52 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 26, 2022 6:05 pmI do understand that. But it shouldn't affect a particular decision not involving that. And all decisions don't revolve around that. Do I make sense?Bob78164 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 26, 2022 5:57 pmWhen deciding whether particular police conduct is "reasonable" (which is an issue that comes before the Court with some frequency), the perspective of a parent who's had to give their kids "The Talk" is probably different from the perspective of a parent who's never had that experience. Same for the perspective of people who have repeated experience with being stopped for "Driving While Black."Beebs52 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 26, 2022 5:51 pmRegarding appointments to. I was under the impression that these people interpret the law strictly. Obviously past appts, both "conservative" and "liberal" have surprised party line peeps. That's a good thing.
I don't understand propounding appointing someone based on race or sex. The possible appointees may be eminently qualified, but I would think those appointees would be grossed out by that framework rather than their legal acumen.
There is a lot of value to having both perspectives on the Court. --Bob
Voting rights cases, for example, might have been decided differently if there were any Justices with a clue about what it means to have to take a two-hour bus ride to get the necessary ID, at the cost of a full day's pay. That information is in the record, but having that perspective in the room where decisions are made matters. --Bob
"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear." Thomas Jefferson
- Beebs52
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Re: Supreme Court
But you're discussing specifics that aren't actually pertinent to a specific case. And also possibly state specific. What case is involved?Bob78164 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 26, 2022 6:36 pmBut in a surprising number of cases, the Court is fundamentally deciding what is "reasonable" or "undue." Having a broad swath of perspectives when making that decision matters (in my view) a lot. Remember, until 1981, every single Justice who ever served was a white man.Beebs52 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 26, 2022 6:05 pmI do understand that. But it shouldn't affect a particular decision not involving that. And all decisions don't revolve around that. Do I make sense?Bob78164 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 26, 2022 5:57 pmWhen deciding whether particular police conduct is "reasonable" (which is an issue that comes before the Court with some frequency), the perspective of a parent who's had to give their kids "The Talk" is probably different from the perspective of a parent who's never had that experience. Same for the perspective of people who have repeated experience with being stopped for "Driving While Black."
There is a lot of value to having both perspectives on the Court. --Bob
Voting rights cases, for example, might have been decided differently if there were any Justices with a clue about what it means to have to take a two-hour bus ride to get the necessary ID, at the cost of a full day's pay. That information is in the record, but having that perspective in the room where decisions are made matters. --Bob
Well, then
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Re: Supreme Court
A relatively early (decades-old, at this point) case from the Midwest (I think Indiana) where the Court held, over a dissent, that such a bus trip isn't much of a burden.Beebs52 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 26, 2022 6:42 pmBut you're discussing specifics that aren't actually pertinent to a specific case. And also possibly state specific. What case is involved?Bob78164 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 26, 2022 6:36 pmBut in a surprising number of cases, the Court is fundamentally deciding what is "reasonable" or "undue." Having a broad swath of perspectives when making that decision matters (in my view) a lot. Remember, until 1981, every single Justice who ever served was a white man.
Voting rights cases, for example, might have been decided differently if there were any Justices with a clue about what it means to have to take a two-hour bus ride to get the necessary ID, at the cost of a full day's pay. That information is in the record, but having that perspective in the room where decisions are made matters. --Bob
The point is that cases are (or should be) decided based on facts and evaluations of those facts, and in the evaluative process (especially when talking about concepts such as "reasonable" or "burdensome"), life experience matters.
So, too, do moral values. It hasn't escaped my notice, or that of many other observers, that a Court that's on the verge of imposing a specifically Catholic view of morality on women across the nation happens to have 6 Catholic Justices, which is a number far out of proportion to their numbers in the general population. Flip it around -- I think a lot of people would find it notable if the Court had 6 Black Justices. --Bob
"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear." Thomas Jefferson
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Re: Supreme Court
LMAO!!
To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead. -Thomas Paine
You can ignore reality, but you can't ignore the consequences of ignoring reality. -Ayn Rand
Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities. -Voltaire
You can ignore reality, but you can't ignore the consequences of ignoring reality. -Ayn Rand
Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities. -Voltaire
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Re: Supreme Court
Thanks for the laugh.
..what country can preserve it’s liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? let them take arms.
~~ Thomas Jefferson
War is where the government tells you who the bad guy is.
Revolution is when you decide that for yourself.
-- Benjamin Franklin (maybe)
~~ Thomas Jefferson
War is where the government tells you who the bad guy is.
Revolution is when you decide that for yourself.
-- Benjamin Franklin (maybe)
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Re: Supreme Court
So if we go by recent precedent, should the Republicans regain control of the Senate in 2022, will they refuse to consider any of Biden's nominations because "it's too close to an election" (per Mitch McConnell)? And if Biden wins a second term (or another Democrat replaces him), will the court have a vacancy until either a Republican is elected president or the Democrats regain control of the Senate?
And what about Naomi?
And what about Naomi?
"Elen sila lumenn omentielvo...A star shines on the hour of our meeting."
- Beebs52
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Re: Supreme Court
That about sums it up. Surely she's not in the shower.earendel wrote: ↑Thu Jan 27, 2022 8:43 amSo if we go by recent precedent, should the Republicans regain control of the Senate in 2022, will they refuse to consider any of Biden's nominations because "it's too close to an election" (per Mitch McConnell)? And if Biden wins a second term (or another Democrat replaces him), will the court have a vacancy until either a Republican is elected president or the Democrats regain control of the Senate?
And what about Naomi?
I jest.
Well, then
- bazodee
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Re: Supreme Court
I have no problem with engineering more diversity on the Court, even for diversity's sake. Nonetheless, this episode leaves a bad taste. This nomination, whoever it will be, looks more like a quid pro quo than an attempt to diversify. No disrespect intended, but Rep. Jim Clyburn isn't the President.
There are eminently qualified African American women who can serve and no doubt, Biden will nominate one of them.
But I wish diversity were interpreted a little more broadly. How about a candidate who didn't graduate from Harvard or Yale Law Schools? How about a nominee who isn't a sitting federal judge, but perhaps sits on a state Supreme Court? It almost seems a maxim that only people of color have "unique" experiences that bring a different perspective.
There are eminently qualified African American women who can serve and no doubt, Biden will nominate one of them.
But I wish diversity were interpreted a little more broadly. How about a candidate who didn't graduate from Harvard or Yale Law Schools? How about a nominee who isn't a sitting federal judge, but perhaps sits on a state Supreme Court? It almost seems a maxim that only people of color have "unique" experiences that bring a different perspective.
- Bob78164
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Re: Supreme Court
One of the leading candidates is in fact sitting on the California Supreme Court.bazodee wrote: ↑Thu Jan 27, 2022 7:19 pmI have no problem with engineering more diversity on the Court, even for diversity's sake. Nonetheless, this episode leaves a bad taste. This nomination, whoever it will be, looks more like a quid pro quo than an attempt to diversify. No disrespect intended, but Rep. Jim Clyburn isn't the President.
There are eminently qualified African American women who can serve and no doubt, Biden will nominate one of them.
But I wish diversity were interpreted a little more broadly. How about a candidate who didn't graduate from Harvard or Yale Law Schools? How about a nominee who isn't a sitting federal judge, but perhaps sits on a state Supreme Court? It almost seems a maxim that only people of color have "unique" experiences that bring a different perspective.
And President Biden is not the first President to promise during his campaign to name a nominee from a specific demographic group. When Ronald Reagan was running for President, he promised to name the first woman to the Supreme Court if elected. --Bob
"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear." Thomas Jefferson
- Beebs52
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Re: Supreme Court
What about Childs?bazodee wrote: ↑Thu Jan 27, 2022 7:19 pmI have no problem with engineering more diversity on the Court, even for diversity's sake. Nonetheless, this episode leaves a bad taste. This nomination, whoever it will be, looks more like a quid pro quo than an attempt to diversify. No disrespect intended, but Rep. Jim Clyburn isn't the President.
There are eminently qualified African American women who can serve and no doubt, Biden will nominate one of them.
But I wish diversity were interpreted a little more broadly. How about a candidate who didn't graduate from Harvard or Yale Law Schools? How about a nominee who isn't a sitting federal judge, but perhaps sits on a state Supreme Court? It almost seems a maxim that only people of color have "unique" experiences that bring a different perspective.
Well, then
- Bob78164
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Re: Supreme Court
Isn't she a sitting federal judge (South Carolina District Court) whose nomination to the Court of Appeals for the D.C. Circuit is pending? --BobBeebs52 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 27, 2022 7:36 pmWhat about Childs?bazodee wrote: ↑Thu Jan 27, 2022 7:19 pmI have no problem with engineering more diversity on the Court, even for diversity's sake. Nonetheless, this episode leaves a bad taste. This nomination, whoever it will be, looks more like a quid pro quo than an attempt to diversify. No disrespect intended, but Rep. Jim Clyburn isn't the President.
There are eminently qualified African American women who can serve and no doubt, Biden will nominate one of them.
But I wish diversity were interpreted a little more broadly. How about a candidate who didn't graduate from Harvard or Yale Law Schools? How about a nominee who isn't a sitting federal judge, but perhaps sits on a state Supreme Court? It almost seems a maxim that only people of color have "unique" experiences that bring a different perspective.
"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear." Thomas Jefferson
- Beebs52
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Re: Supreme Court
I know she's one under consideration. Didn't you see the list?Bob78164 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 27, 2022 7:50 pmIsn't she a sitting federal judge (South Carolina District Court) whose nomination to the Court of Appeals for the D.C. Circuit is pending? --BobBeebs52 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 27, 2022 7:36 pmWhat about Childs?bazodee wrote: ↑Thu Jan 27, 2022 7:19 pmI have no problem with engineering more diversity on the Court, even for diversity's sake. Nonetheless, this episode leaves a bad taste. This nomination, whoever it will be, looks more like a quid pro quo than an attempt to diversify. No disrespect intended, but Rep. Jim Clyburn isn't the President.
There are eminently qualified African American women who can serve and no doubt, Biden will nominate one of them.
But I wish diversity were interpreted a little more broadly. How about a candidate who didn't graduate from Harvard or Yale Law Schools? How about a nominee who isn't a sitting federal judge, but perhaps sits on a state Supreme Court? It almost seems a maxim that only people of color have "unique" experiences that bring a different perspective.
Well, then
- Bob78164
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Re: Supreme Court
Jackson, Childs, and Kruger are the three names I've seen floated. Of those, only Kruger is not currently a federal judge, which was one of the topics of jarnon's comment. --Bob
"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear." Thomas Jefferson
- Beebs52
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Re: Supreme Court
What?
Well, then
- Bob78164
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Re: Supreme Court
Excuse me, I meant bazodee. --Bob
"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear." Thomas Jefferson
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Re: Supreme Court
You don't have to go nearly that far back. When Ruth Bader Ginsburg died, Trump announced at a campaign rally that he would name a woman to replace her.
Check out our website: http://www.silverscreenvideos.com
- Ritterskoop
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Re: Supreme Court
I can live with the idea that the next nominee is already slotted into a particular demographic because for a long time, they were mostly slotted into the MAWG demo, so it's not so different from some of us getting on Millionaire because ABC wanted to broaden the appeal of the show (from the original MAWG-heavy contestants).
I understand that TV is not the same as the court, and I am OK with courts being a little more conservative than other branches of government, but if people are qualified, I don't mind trying to paint a more colorful picture.
I understand that TV is not the same as the court, and I am OK with courts being a little more conservative than other branches of government, but if people are qualified, I don't mind trying to paint a more colorful picture.
If you fail to pilot your own ship, don't be surprised at what inappropriate port you find yourself docked. - Tom Robbins
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At the moment of commitment, the universe conspires to assist you. - attributed to Johann Wolfgang von Goethe.
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At the moment of commitment, the universe conspires to assist you. - attributed to Johann Wolfgang von Goethe.
- Beebs52
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Re: Supreme Court
Also, and I'm sure I shall irritate whomever, so far, even given politically driven appts, which they all are at some point, these people are serious, intellectually, constitutionally driven jurists. No one is an appointee without some serious creds. Because any, any prez can't seriously think they'll fuck with that. They, scotus, all surprise you on various decisions.
This has nothing to to do with expanding the court, however...
This has nothing to to do with expanding the court, however...
Well, then
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Re: Supreme Court
I said something just like this to a leftish friend during a recent confirmation process of a more-right-than-not type.
My friend was mortified. I said, "You have got to trust that people at this level are genuinely doing their best. Well-meaning people are going to disagree on policy, but as long as they refrain from name-calling, and in fact do their best, that's what we expect and that's what we mostly get."
If you fail to pilot your own ship, don't be surprised at what inappropriate port you find yourself docked. - Tom Robbins
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At the moment of commitment, the universe conspires to assist you. - attributed to Johann Wolfgang von Goethe.
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At the moment of commitment, the universe conspires to assist you. - attributed to Johann Wolfgang von Goethe.
- Ritterskoop
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Re: Supreme Court
Not going back to see if I already said this...
I also don't believe in adding justices to get the number you want, although it is true there is nothing in the Constitution about how many there should be. I think they started with five, maybe?
Damn, play by the rules there are; when you try to rewrite the rules in the middle of the game, that is like trying to say the outcome wasn't a final score. Bitch to the ref for a minute, and then get ready for the next game.
For some reason, expanding the legislature feels different than the court, so if Puerto Rico and DC and Guam want representatives who can actually vote, I might be OK with that, but dadgum, if you do it, do it all at once so they don't have to keep messing around with the flag.
I also don't believe in adding justices to get the number you want, although it is true there is nothing in the Constitution about how many there should be. I think they started with five, maybe?
Damn, play by the rules there are; when you try to rewrite the rules in the middle of the game, that is like trying to say the outcome wasn't a final score. Bitch to the ref for a minute, and then get ready for the next game.
For some reason, expanding the legislature feels different than the court, so if Puerto Rico and DC and Guam want representatives who can actually vote, I might be OK with that, but dadgum, if you do it, do it all at once so they don't have to keep messing around with the flag.
If you fail to pilot your own ship, don't be surprised at what inappropriate port you find yourself docked. - Tom Robbins
--------
At the moment of commitment, the universe conspires to assist you. - attributed to Johann Wolfgang von Goethe.
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At the moment of commitment, the universe conspires to assist you. - attributed to Johann Wolfgang von Goethe.
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Re: Supreme Court
There were initially six justices.Ritterskoop wrote: ↑Sat Jan 29, 2022 10:46 pmNot going back to see if I already said this...
I also don't believe in adding justices to get the number you want, although it is true there is nothing in the Constitution about how many there should be. I think they started with five, maybe?
Damn, play by the rules there are; when you try to rewrite the rules in the middle of the game, that is like trying to say the outcome wasn't a final score. Bitch to the ref for a minute, and then get ready for the next game.
For some reason, expanding the legislature feels different than the court, so if Puerto Rico and DC and Guam want representatives who can actually vote, I might be OK with that, but dadgum, if you do it, do it all at once so they don't have to keep messing around with the flag.
I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I needed to be.
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Si fractum non sit, noli id reficere.
Teach a child to be polite and courteous in the home and, when he grows up, he'll never be able to drive in New Jersey.
- Douglas Adams (1952 - 2001)
Si fractum non sit, noli id reficere.
Teach a child to be polite and courteous in the home and, when he grows up, he'll never be able to drive in New Jersey.