Dr. Craig Spencer's ER observations

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Dr. Craig Spencer's ER observations

#1 Post by Bob78164 » Tue Dec 28, 2021 11:54 am

I think his thread speaks for itself. I'm certain that Weyoun could post something similar. --Bob
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Re: Dr. Craig Spencer's ER observations

#2 Post by jaybee » Tue Dec 28, 2021 1:25 pm

I know a fair amount of people who work in various parts of the medical field - this is the same as what they have been saying too.
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Re: Dr. Craig Spencer's ER observations

#3 Post by silverscreenselect » Wed Dec 29, 2021 3:08 am

Bob78164 wrote:
Tue Dec 28, 2021 11:54 am
I think his thread speaks for itself. I'm certain that Weyoun could post something similar. --Bob
In response to my "Question to Weyoun" thread:
Weyoun wrote:So, to actually address the initial question, I think if you are boosted, your chances of serious illness are very low. The vaccine seems to be about 30% less effective, unless you have a booster. That means that you really should get your booster. This is based on what we’re seeing in South Africa. It’s a combination of the vaccine having some effect, plus the disease being seemingly milder.
Weyoun made those comments about two weeks ago, but the progress of the disease since then seems to bear him and Dr. Spencer out.

Of course, the Spocks of this world will continue to play semantic games and misuse probability and statistics in their arguments all the way to the intensive care unit, or worse.
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Re: Dr. Craig Spencer's ER observations

#4 Post by Weyoun » Wed Dec 29, 2021 8:58 am

Recent experience would affirm the above.

I will say the folks lately overall seem less sicker. It could be random sampling, or the fact that so many people who would get bad sick from this have already caught it and have died or become infirm.

I saw one unvaccinated gentleman yesterday who was fairly sick but decided to go home. That would be consistent with his long medical history of avoiding doctors. In my discharge instructions, I told him I would be back working on Thursday to admit him to the hospital. He was borderline hypoxic and he had major electrolyte abnormalities from his ongoing diarrhea.

There are a lot of young folks clogging up the emergency department with ongoing vomiting or diarrhea or sore throat, moaning that they’ve never been this sick before. Fairly typical of that generation, I feel like.

Others just want to get tested. I feel the government and businesses need to do a better job with testing. It’s not really fair to us and our strained resources to be the primary testing center in town.

As a result, our volume is higher, but folks aren’t as sick. Which is where I felt we were heading.

Another thing I am seeing is old people who aren’t vaccinated but catch this (presumably Omicron) version aren’t in danger of being placed on a ventilator as much, but they are so weak and cannot eat, they wind up coming into the hospital for that. I admitted a woman who was weak from Covid, though not needing oxygen. However she fell at home and broke her femur into three parts. She was in her 60s, and now she is maimed.

I also saw a gentleman in his 30s the other day. He presented with abdominal pain, nausea, vomiting, diarrhea. It was a little bit of an odd situation and we joked it was too much pot or booze. On paper he would not seem to be sick but he obviously was, so we expedited his workup. We wound up imaging his belly and he had multiple clots in his abdomen. He had to go to surgery emergently to make sure that his intestines did not die from lack of blood flow.

The surgeon felt like this was from Covid, as he was Covid positive and the GI symptoms certainly were consistent. However I suspect he had a long-standing paroxysmal atrial fibrillation, despite his young age, and it formed clots in his heart that he embolized to his abdomen. Of course it could be a little bit of both.

Anyway, right now he is in the ICU with his abdomen open and packed. He’ll be there for a good bit of time.

I remain astonished at the older folks who aren’t vaccinated. Almost to a person, they come from outlying counties and migrate to Pittsburgh for medical care.

I did admit one person yesterday who had actually just gotten her booster the day before. She was a long-standing COPDer on home oxygen who was a little bit more short of breath. We are talking about needing 4 L of oxygen instead of 3 L. With those folks it doesn’t take much of anything to make them more sick, and your more garden-variety viruses can do that. The unvaccinated gentleman who went home was actually objectively more sick.

I saw another person boosted with Covid. She had a headache and a sore throat. She was pregnant, so she would’ve been high risk for serious disease if she was not boosted, I feel like.

Otherwise I have not seen anyone who has boosted, and the overwhelming majority of folks remain unvaccinated.

I think it this point we’re all going to get some form of Covid. I might’ve had it earlier this month, actually, as I had a fever and rhinorrhea and sinus pain for a day.

The goal is to minimize systemic illness. I’m not even talking about the oxygen stuff. I’m talking about not having a week of your life wiped out because you’re too sick to function.

Everything I’ve seen tells me that if you’re vaccinated, it will be mild, but if you’re not, all bets are off. You could need oxygen or you could fall and break your leg or you could develop clots in your abdomen.

I know that Spock and tlynn think they know better, but I suspect, given their work, they don’t have a free week to give up either, since others depend on them.

Just my two cents.

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Re: Dr. Craig Spencer's ER observations

#5 Post by Beebs52 » Wed Dec 29, 2021 4:22 pm

It's unfortunate that this anecdotal/factual account turned, once again, to sniping against bored members. Why is that?
Well, then

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Re: Dr. Craig Spencer's ER observations

#6 Post by tlynn78 » Wed Dec 29, 2021 5:27 pm

Beebs52 wrote:
Wed Dec 29, 2021 4:22 pm
It's unfortunate that this anecdotal/factual account turned, once again, to sniping against bored members. Why is that?
LOL - they must have some free time on their hands now that 220 MILLION Americans have died from Covid, according to our VP. Fewer patients to treat, enaht.
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Re: Dr. Craig Spencer's ER observations

#7 Post by Weyoun » Wed Dec 29, 2021 5:56 pm

Beebs52 wrote:
Wed Dec 29, 2021 4:22 pm
It's unfortunate that this anecdotal/factual account turned, once again, to sniping against bored members. Why is that?
Because, believe it or not, I don’t want something bad to happen to them. Plus, I’m paid by the hour, not the number of patients I see.

Hope that helps!

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Re: Dr. Craig Spencer's ER observations

#8 Post by tlynn78 » Wed Dec 29, 2021 6:00 pm

Weyoun wrote:
Wed Dec 29, 2021 5:56 pm
Beebs52 wrote:
Wed Dec 29, 2021 4:22 pm
It's unfortunate that this anecdotal/factual account turned, once again, to sniping against bored members. Why is that?
Because, believe it or not, I don’t want something bad to happen to them. Plus, I’m paid by the hour, not the number of patients I see.

Hope that helps!
LOL - Petty sniping always helps people see the Light!
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Re: Dr. Craig Spencer's ER observations

#9 Post by Beebs52 » Wed Dec 29, 2021 6:20 pm

Weyoun wrote:
Wed Dec 29, 2021 5:56 pm
Beebs52 wrote:
Wed Dec 29, 2021 4:22 pm
It's unfortunate that this anecdotal/factual account turned, once again, to sniping against bored members. Why is that?
Because, believe it or not, I don’t want something bad to happen to them. Plus, I’m paid by the hour, not the number of patients I see.

Hope that helps!
You missed my point.
Well, then

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Re: Dr. Craig Spencer's ER observations

#10 Post by Spock » Wed Dec 29, 2021 7:19 pm

Beebs52 wrote:
Wed Dec 29, 2021 6:20 pm
Weyoun wrote:
Wed Dec 29, 2021 5:56 pm
Beebs52 wrote:
Wed Dec 29, 2021 4:22 pm
It's unfortunate that this anecdotal/factual account turned, once again, to sniping against bored members. Why is that?
Because, believe it or not, I don’t want something bad to happen to them. Plus, I’m paid by the hour, not the number of patients I see.

Hope that helps!
You missed my point.
Hell, I am just flattered that an extremely busy physician in the teeth of the Covid fight and with a young family besides is driven to waste some of his precious moments on this earth thinking about little old me.

I wasn't aware that I had another SSS in the offing. But I count this one, given his opportunity cost, wasting time on me as even more special.

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Re: Dr. Craig Spencer's ER observations

#11 Post by Spock » Thu Dec 30, 2021 10:31 am

SSS>>>"Of course, the Spocks of this world will continue to play semantic games and misuse probability and statistics in their arguments all the way to the intensive care unit, or worse."<<<<

So, is your operating narrative- everybody who doesn't have the shot ends up in the ICU, or worse?

Also, just curious-what do the long-term trials of the vaccines show about the effect on future fertility for pre-pubescent children?

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Re: Dr. Craig Spencer's ER observations

#12 Post by silverscreenselect » Thu Dec 30, 2021 11:10 am

Spock wrote:
Thu Dec 30, 2021 10:31 am
SSS>>>"Of course, the Spocks of this world will continue to play semantic games and misuse probability and statistics in their arguments all the way to the intensive care unit, or worse."<<<<

So, is your operating narrative- everybody who doesn't have the shot ends up in the ICU, or worse?

Also, just curious-what do the long-term trials of the vaccines show about the effect on future fertility for pre-pubescent children?
Again, a misuse of the laws of probability and statistics. Go to a Las Vegas casino and at any moment you'll see a bunch of players winning. But at the end of the day, the casinos turn a tidy profit because the probabilities are in their favor. Of course, "everyone" who doesn't have the shot won't end up in the ICU. But the chances of that are much, much greater than for those who do.

And we get the nonsense about what might happen in future trials. If we applied that theory across the board, nobody would take any medication or eat anything because it might be shown to be harmful in the future. While you choose to speculate about the possible bad effects of the vaccine in the future, you ignore what's already been demonstrated about "long term" effects of having COVID. And I use the phrase long term advisedly because we don't know how much worse things will get in the future. But again, ignore what's been demonstrated and the probabilities in order to make a political point.
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Re: Dr. Craig Spencer's ER observations

#13 Post by Weyoun » Fri Dec 31, 2021 1:54 am

Spock wrote:
Wed Dec 29, 2021 7:19 pm
Beebs52 wrote:
Wed Dec 29, 2021 6:20 pm
Weyoun wrote:
Wed Dec 29, 2021 5:56 pm


Because, believe it or not, I don’t want something bad to happen to them. Plus, I’m paid by the hour, not the number of patients I see.

Hope that helps!
You missed my point.
Hell, I am just flattered that an extremely busy physician in the teeth of the Covid fight and with a young family besides is driven to waste some of his precious moments on this earth thinking about little old me.

I wasn't aware that I had another SSS in the offing. But I count this one, given his opportunity cost, wasting time on me as even more special.
No need to be flattered. I’ve known you in some form for two decades. Why would I want something bad to happen to you?

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Re: Dr. Craig Spencer's ER observations

#14 Post by Beebs52 » Fri Dec 31, 2021 4:43 pm

Weyoun wrote:
Fri Dec 31, 2021 1:54 am
Spock wrote:
Wed Dec 29, 2021 7:19 pm
Beebs52 wrote:
Wed Dec 29, 2021 6:20 pm


You missed my point.
Hell, I am just flattered that an extremely busy physician in the teeth of the Covid fight and with a young family besides is driven to waste some of his precious moments on this earth thinking about little old me.

I wasn't aware that I had another SSS in the offing. But I count this one, given his opportunity cost, wasting time on me as even more special.
No need to be flattered. I’ve known you in some form for two decades. Why would I want something bad to happen to you?
That was a kind thing to say. Happy New Year. No sarcasm.
Well, then

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Re: Dr. Craig Spencer's ER observations

#15 Post by BackInTex » Fri Dec 31, 2021 6:43 pm

silverscreenselect wrote:
Thu Dec 30, 2021 11:10 am
But again, ignore what's been demonstrated and the probabilities in order to make a political point.
Not being ignored, just interpreted differently. Lots of smart people, even doctors, interpret what's been demonstrated and the probabilities the same as Spock. And as for making political points, almost everything you post is to make a political point.
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Re: Dr. Craig Spencer's ER observations

#16 Post by silverscreenselect » Fri Dec 31, 2021 8:11 pm

BackInTex wrote:
Fri Dec 31, 2021 6:43 pm
Lots of smart people, even doctors, interpret what's been demonstrated and the probabilities the same as Spock.
It's pretty hard to interpret statistics any other way that say that people who have not been vaccinated are 10 to 20 times more likely to be hospitalized from COVID than those who have.
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Re: Dr. Craig Spencer's ER observations

#17 Post by Bob Juch » Tue Jan 04, 2022 1:45 pm

I just flew back from Orlando yesterday, and, boy, are my arms tired (along with my whole body).

We had a great week at Walt Disney World until the 29th, when my great-grandson, Lance, decided to go missing. His father had changed his mind about letting him move to Longmont. After he was found, his father conceded. But that's not why I'm writing in this thread.

After my two great-granddaughters returned to Buffalo, my granddaughter Brittany and Lance went to Universal Studios Orlando on the 31st. We did most of the rides there. On the 1st, however, Brittany woke up dry heaving and saying she was burning up. She had a very hot forehead. She took a cold shower which was ineffective. I called the concierge and asked if they could refer a doctor. The number they gave me was for a group. When I called the first time, I was disconnected while in their phone tree. The second time I got a recording saying they couldn't take my call at that time.

I dialed 911, and eventually, they dispatched two EMTs and a fire squad. They found Brittany's blood pressure was abnormally low (~90/~60), but her temperature was then normal. They had her stand up to walk to the ambulance, and she passed out. They had to carry her to a stretcher.

Lance and I got ready to go and grabbed some breakfast pastries, then took a limo that the hotel provided to the hospital. When we got there, we found that we couldn't go in as they didn't let kids under 15 enter, and I couldn't leave him outside unescorted. The security guard gave us a phone number that allowed us to talk to her nurse, who said she was being tested for COVID and that we should call back in half an hour.

When we called later, the nurse said that Brittany had refused a COVID test. Her bloodwork showed she had abnormal chemistry, including severely low vitamins C and D. They were giving her 1.5 liters of fluids and thought that was her primary problem. She later consented to a COVID test which was positive. They admitted her overnight and put her in a room with an older woman who had severe symptoms. I talked to her on her cell phone, and she said she was worried about getting sicker from being in the same room as that woman.

The following day I called her, she said they were waiting on her bloodwork. She called back around noon and said they were discharging her as she seemed to have no COVID symptoms; they thought the positive test was from a previous infection that had been undetected.

We stayed in the hotel the rest of the day and slept in Sunday morning. Brittany wanted to go to the Islands of Adventure park, so we went there and rode all the adult rides. However, when the park closed at 9:00, she didn't feel well, so we went to the hotel for a small dinner instead of eating at a restaurant at CityWalk. She crashed and burned afterward.

Yesterday she wasn't feeling very well but got ready, and we went to the airport and flew to Denver. I later flew to Tucson after a delay and four gate changes. (Also, I will never fly on a CRJ again. They aren't built for people my size.)

I started to have a sore throat on the flights and coughed a bit. This morning my sinuses were running like an open tap until I took a shot of DayQuil, and I have been both sneezing and coughing; I have no fever. So do I have an ordinary cold or COVID? I'm not going to leave the house until I'm well, whatever it is. If I get worse, I'll have a test.

P.S. Both Brittany and Lance are unvaccinated; I had my booster three weeks ago.
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Re: Dr. Craig Spencer's ER observations

#18 Post by BackInTex » Tue Jan 04, 2022 2:00 pm

Bob Juch wrote:
Tue Jan 04, 2022 1:45 pm
I just flew back from Orlando yesterday, and, boy, are my arms tired (along with my whole body).

We had a great week at Walt Disney World until the 29th, when my great-grandson, Lance, decided to go missing. His father had changed his mind about letting him move to Longmont. After he was found, his father conceded. But that's not why I'm writing in this thread.

After my two great-granddaughters returned to Buffalo, my granddaughter Brittany and Lance went to Universal Studios Orlando on the 31st. We did most of the rides there. On the 1st, however, Brittany woke up dry heaving and saying she was burning up. She had a very hot forehead. She took a cold shower which was ineffective. I called the concierge and asked if they could refer a doctor. The number they gave me was for a group. When I called the first time, I was disconnected while in their phone tree. The second time I got a recording saying they couldn't take my call at that time.

I dialed 911, and eventually, they dispatched two EMTs and a fire squad. They found Brittany's blood pressure was abnormally low (~90/~60), but her temperature was then normal. They had her stand up to walk to the ambulance, and she passed out. They had to carry her to a stretcher.

Lance and I got ready to go and grabbed some breakfast pastries, then took a limo that the hotel provided to the hospital. When we got there, we found that we couldn't go in as they didn't let kids under 15 enter, and I couldn't leave him outside unescorted. The security guard gave us a phone number that allowed us to talk to her nurse, who said she was being tested for COVID and that we should call back in half an hour.

When we called later, the nurse said that Brittany had refused a COVID test. Her bloodwork showed she had abnormal chemistry, including severely low vitamins C and D. They were giving her 1.5 liters of fluids and thought that was her primary problem. She later consented to a COVID test which was positive. They admitted her overnight and put her in a room with an older woman who had severe symptoms. I talked to her on her cell phone, and she said she was worried about getting sicker from being in the same room as that woman.

The following day I called her, she said they were waiting on her bloodwork. She called back around noon and said they were discharging her as she seemed to have no COVID symptoms; they thought the positive test was from a previous infection that had been undetected.

We stayed in the hotel the rest of the day and slept in Sunday morning. Brittany wanted to go to the Islands of Adventure park, so we went there and rode all the adult rides. However, when the park closed at 9:00, she didn't feel well, so we went to the hotel for a small dinner instead of eating at a restaurant at CityWalk. She crashed and burned afterward.

Yesterday she wasn't feeling very well but got ready, and we went to the airport and flew to Denver. I later flew to Tucson after a delay and four gate changes. (Also, I will never fly on a CRJ again. They aren't built for people my size.)

I started to have a sore throat on the flights and coughed a bit. This morning my sinuses were running like an open tap until I took a shot of DayQuil, and I have been both sneezing and coughing; I have no fever. So do I have an ordinary cold or COVID? I'm not going to leave the house until I'm well, whatever it is. If I get worse, I'll have a test.

P.S. Both Brittany and Lance are unvaccinated; I had my booster three weeks ago.
Too bad for the others on the plane I guess. Oh well, y'all to to where you wanted to be.

Every time I check in for a flight i have to confirm I don't have any symptoms, not have a positive test for x number of days, or been exposed to someone who has. I always answer truthfully. Regardless of what some here might think, I wouldn't risk exposing other on a plane had I experienced what you just described.
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Re: Dr. Craig Spencer's ER observations

#19 Post by Bob Juch » Tue Jan 04, 2022 4:50 pm

BackInTex wrote:
Tue Jan 04, 2022 2:00 pm
Bob Juch wrote:
Tue Jan 04, 2022 1:45 pm
I just flew back from Orlando yesterday, and, boy, are my arms tired (along with my whole body).

We had a great week at Walt Disney World until the 29th, when my great-grandson, Lance, decided to go missing. His father had changed his mind about letting him move to Longmont. After he was found, his father conceded. But that's not why I'm writing in this thread.

After my two great-granddaughters returned to Buffalo, my granddaughter Brittany and Lance went to Universal Studios Orlando on the 31st. We did most of the rides there. On the 1st, however, Brittany woke up dry heaving and saying she was burning up. She had a very hot forehead. She took a cold shower which was ineffective. I called the concierge and asked if they could refer a doctor. The number they gave me was for a group. When I called the first time, I was disconnected while in their phone tree. The second time I got a recording saying they couldn't take my call at that time.

I dialed 911, and eventually, they dispatched two EMTs and a fire squad. They found Brittany's blood pressure was abnormally low (~90/~60), but her temperature was then normal. They had her stand up to walk to the ambulance, and she passed out. They had to carry her to a stretcher.

Lance and I got ready to go and grabbed some breakfast pastries, then took a limo that the hotel provided to the hospital. When we got there, we found that we couldn't go in as they didn't let kids under 15 enter, and I couldn't leave him outside unescorted. The security guard gave us a phone number that allowed us to talk to her nurse, who said she was being tested for COVID and that we should call back in half an hour.

When we called later, the nurse said that Brittany had refused a COVID test. Her bloodwork showed she had abnormal chemistry, including severely low vitamins C and D. They were giving her 1.5 liters of fluids and thought that was her primary problem. She later consented to a COVID test which was positive. They admitted her overnight and put her in a room with an older woman who had severe symptoms. I talked to her on her cell phone, and she said she was worried about getting sicker from being in the same room as that woman.

The following day I called her, she said they were waiting on her bloodwork. She called back around noon and said they were discharging her as she seemed to have no COVID symptoms; they thought the positive test was from a previous infection that had been undetected.

We stayed in the hotel the rest of the day and slept in Sunday morning. Brittany wanted to go to the Islands of Adventure park, so we went there and rode all the adult rides. However, when the park closed at 9:00, she didn't feel well, so we went to the hotel for a small dinner instead of eating at a restaurant at CityWalk. She crashed and burned afterward.

Yesterday she wasn't feeling very well but got ready, and we went to the airport and flew to Denver. I later flew to Tucson after a delay and four gate changes. (Also, I will never fly on a CRJ again. They aren't built for people my size.)

I started to have a sore throat on the flights and coughed a bit. This morning my sinuses were running like an open tap until I took a shot of DayQuil, and I have been both sneezing and coughing; I have no fever. So do I have an ordinary cold or COVID? I'm not going to leave the house until I'm well, whatever it is. If I get worse, I'll have a test.

P.S. Both Brittany and Lance are unvaccinated; I had my booster three weeks ago.
Too bad for the others on the plane I guess. Oh well, y'all to to where you wanted to be.

Every time I check in for a flight i have to confirm I don't have any symptoms, not have a positive test for x number of days, or been exposed to someone who has. I always answer truthfully. Regardless of what some here might think, I wouldn't risk exposing other on a plane had I experienced what you just described.
Brittany was told she had a false positive and I had no symptoms until after I boarded the flight. We have nothing to feel guilty about. Brittany has no symptoms today. I'm pretty sure I have a simple cold.
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Re: Dr. Craig Spencer's ER observations

#20 Post by Bob Juch » Wed Jan 05, 2022 10:15 am

Bob Juch wrote:
Tue Jan 04, 2022 4:50 pm
BackInTex wrote:
Tue Jan 04, 2022 2:00 pm
Bob Juch wrote:
Tue Jan 04, 2022 1:45 pm
I just flew back from Orlando yesterday, and, boy, are my arms tired (along with my whole body).

We had a great week at Walt Disney World until the 29th, when my great-grandson, Lance, decided to go missing. His father had changed his mind about letting him move to Longmont. After he was found, his father conceded. But that's not why I'm writing in this thread.

After my two great-granddaughters returned to Buffalo, my granddaughter Brittany and Lance went to Universal Studios Orlando on the 31st. We did most of the rides there. On the 1st, however, Brittany woke up dry heaving and saying she was burning up. She had a very hot forehead. She took a cold shower which was ineffective. I called the concierge and asked if they could refer a doctor. The number they gave me was for a group. When I called the first time, I was disconnected while in their phone tree. The second time I got a recording saying they couldn't take my call at that time.

I dialed 911, and eventually, they dispatched two EMTs and a fire squad. They found Brittany's blood pressure was abnormally low (~90/~60), but her temperature was then normal. They had her stand up to walk to the ambulance, and she passed out. They had to carry her to a stretcher.

Lance and I got ready to go and grabbed some breakfast pastries, then took a limo that the hotel provided to the hospital. When we got there, we found that we couldn't go in as they didn't let kids under 15 enter, and I couldn't leave him outside unescorted. The security guard gave us a phone number that allowed us to talk to her nurse, who said she was being tested for COVID and that we should call back in half an hour.

When we called later, the nurse said that Brittany had refused a COVID test. Her bloodwork showed she had abnormal chemistry, including severely low vitamins C and D. They were giving her 1.5 liters of fluids and thought that was her primary problem. She later consented to a COVID test which was positive. They admitted her overnight and put her in a room with an older woman who had severe symptoms. I talked to her on her cell phone, and she said she was worried about getting sicker from being in the same room as that woman.

The following day I called her, she said they were waiting on her bloodwork. She called back around noon and said they were discharging her as she seemed to have no COVID symptoms; they thought the positive test was from a previous infection that had been undetected.

We stayed in the hotel the rest of the day and slept in Sunday morning. Brittany wanted to go to the Islands of Adventure park, so we went there and rode all the adult rides. However, when the park closed at 9:00, she didn't feel well, so we went to the hotel for a small dinner instead of eating at a restaurant at CityWalk. She crashed and burned afterward.

Yesterday she wasn't feeling very well but got ready, and we went to the airport and flew to Denver. I later flew to Tucson after a delay and four gate changes. (Also, I will never fly on a CRJ again. They aren't built for people my size.)

I started to have a sore throat on the flights and coughed a bit. This morning my sinuses were running like an open tap until I took a shot of DayQuil, and I have been both sneezing and coughing; I have no fever. So do I have an ordinary cold or COVID? I'm not going to leave the house until I'm well, whatever it is. If I get worse, I'll have a test.

P.S. Both Brittany and Lance are unvaccinated; I had my booster three weeks ago.
Too bad for the others on the plane I guess. Oh well, y'all to to where you wanted to be.

Every time I check in for a flight i have to confirm I don't have any symptoms, not have a positive test for x number of days, or been exposed to someone who has. I always answer truthfully. Regardless of what some here might think, I wouldn't risk exposing other on a plane had I experienced what you just described.
Brittany was told she had a false positive and I had no symptoms until after I boarded the flight. We have nothing to feel guilty about. Brittany has no symptoms today. I'm pretty sure I have a simple cold.
It is evident that I have an ordinary cold. Brittany now has no symptoms of anything.
I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I needed to be.
- Douglas Adams (1952 - 2001)

Si fractum non sit, noli id reficere.

Teach a child to be polite and courteous in the home and, when he grows up, he'll never be able to drive in New Jersey.

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Re: Dr. Craig Spencer's ER observations

#21 Post by BackInTex » Wed Jan 05, 2022 12:16 pm

Bob Juch wrote:
Wed Jan 05, 2022 10:15 am
Brittany now has no symptoms of anything.
I'm truly glad she is feeling better but folks with no symptoms of anything are what some folks are most scared of.
..what country can preserve it’s liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? let them take arms.
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Re: Dr. Craig Spencer's ER observations

#22 Post by BackInTex » Wed Jan 05, 2022 12:31 pm

silverscreenselect wrote:
Fri Dec 31, 2021 8:11 pm
BackInTex wrote:
Fri Dec 31, 2021 6:43 pm
Lots of smart people, even doctors, interpret what's been demonstrated and the probabilities the same as Spock.
It's pretty hard to interpret statistics any other way that say that people who have not been vaccinated are 10 to 20 times more likely to be hospitalized from COVID than those who have.
For the gullible, no. Just read that 10 to 20 times and accept it. I have several issues with those statistics. First, any "scientific" statistic that has a range of 100% is not worth paying attention to. They are admitting in the statistic itself the inaccuracy of it. Just like those little cartoons they put out early of two people with no mask, two people one with and one without, and two people both with masks and giving a % chance of spreading the virus. Those were completely made up statistics, probably made by marketing folks in a conference room. No science behind it, at all.

With your 10 to 20 times metric above.... What is the numerator and denominator on each side of the equation? What population is included in each of the four? And more importantly, what is the quality of those numbers, because some will be made up as there is no way to know the complete population of folks who contract Covid, let alone segregate them by vaccinated and unvaccinated. I"m sure many included in one or more of the numbers are repeat infections (many by those already vaccinated).

All we know about are those getting tested and those going to the hospital. The control group is completely unknown.
..what country can preserve it’s liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? let them take arms.
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Re: Dr. Craig Spencer's ER observations

#23 Post by Bob78164 » Wed Jan 05, 2022 12:46 pm

BackInTex wrote:
Wed Jan 05, 2022 12:31 pm
For the gullible, no. Just read that 10 to 20 times and accept it. I have several issues with those statistics. First, any "scientific" statistic that has a range of 100% is not worth paying attention to. They are admitting in the statistic itself the inaccuracy of it. Just like those little cartoons they put out early of two people with no mask, two people one with and one without, and two people both with masks and giving a % chance of spreading the virus. Those were completely made up statistics, probably made by marketing folks in a conference room. No science behind it, at all.

With your 10 to 20 times metric above.... What is the numerator and denominator on each side of the equation? What population is included in each of the four? And more importantly, what is the quality of those numbers, because some will be made up as there is no way to know the complete population of folks who contract Covid, let alone segregate them by vaccinated and unvaccinated. I"m sure many included in one or more of the numbers are repeat infections (many by those already vaccinated).

All we know about are those getting tested and those going to the hospital. The control group is completely unknown.
This is innumerate on so many levels.

First, it's not uncommon for error bars of ratios to cover ranges of a factor of two or more. That doesn't mean the information is worthless. It means the people reporting the ratio are being intellectually honest.

Second, we know that more than half the country has been vaccinated. We also know that virtually no one who's been vaccinated and boosted, and hardly anyone who's been vaccinated, is being hospitalized for COVID. Given that we're working with samples sizes of hundreds of millions of people (the population of the United States), that is conclusive proof that vaccination does precisely what it's designed to do -- greatly increase the likelihood of keeping people out of the hospital. The fact that vaccination also appears quite effective in preventing many infections from occurring at all is a bonus. --Bob
"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear." Thomas Jefferson

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Re: Dr. Craig Spencer's ER observations

#24 Post by silverscreenselect » Wed Jan 05, 2022 1:37 pm

BackInTex wrote:
Wed Jan 05, 2022 12:31 pm
For the gullible, no. Just read that 10 to 20 times and accept it. I have several issues with those statistics. First, any "scientific" statistic that has a range of 100% is not worth paying attention to. They are admitting in the statistic itself the inaccuracy of it.
My statement wasn't based on a single study. It was a quick summary of the various studies that I've read. I didn't list the specific criteria for each one, which probably accounts for the differences. The point, as Bob notes, is that every study shows that unvaccinated people are many times more likely to be hospitalized that the vaccinated and boosted.

I also think a lot of people have misconceptions about what being hospitalized with COVID means. The last time I was hospitalized was over 20 years ago and I spent one night. It wasn't the best night I'd ever spent but it wasn't too bad either. Many people think of being hospitalized in those terms or in terms of what happened to Donald Trump, two days and then you're out waving to the crowd. They have no idea what it's like to be hooked up to a breathing machine for days on end, wondering if you'll ever be able to breathe on your own again. The last thing in the world I would want is for Mrs. SSS to be in the ICU by herself, scared to death, hooked up to one of those machines. And I intend to do everything in my power to prevent that, not listed to bogus arguments from people trying to make political points.
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Re: Dr. Craig Spencer's ER observations

#25 Post by silverscreenselect » Wed Jan 05, 2022 10:39 pm

Indiana life insurance CEO says deaths are up 40% among people ages 18-64
The head of Indianapolis-based insurance company OneAmerica said the death rate is up a stunning 40% from pre-pandemic levels among working-age people.
“We are seeing, right now, the highest death rates we have seen in the history of this business – not just at OneAmerica,” the company’s CEO Scott Davison said during an online news conference this week. “The data is consistent across every player in that business.”

Davison said the increase in deaths represents “huge, huge numbers,” and that’s it’s not elderly people who are dying, but “primarily working-age people 18 to 64” who are the employees of companies that have group life insurance plans through OneAmerica. “And what we saw just in third quarter, we’re seeing it continue into fourth quarter, is that death rates are up 40% over what they were pre-pandemic,” he said. “Just to give you an idea of how bad that is, a three-sigma or a one-in-200-year catastrophe would be 10% increase over pre-pandemic,” he said. “So 40% is just unheard of.”

Most of the claims for deaths being filed are not classified as COVID-19 deaths, Davison said. “What the data is showing to us is that the deaths that are being reported as COVID deaths greatly understate the actual death losses among working-age people from the pandemic. It may not all be COVID on their death certificate, but deaths are up just huge, huge numbers.” He said at the same time, the company is seeing an “uptick” in disability claims, saying at first it was short-term disability claims, and now the increase is in long-term disability claims.
Insurance people do not have a political ax to grind one way or another in regard to COVID issues. They compile statistics on mortality and morbidity and set their rates accordingly. Unlike some people on this Bored who keep claiming that it's only a few elderly people who were already at death's door and just die a couple of months earlier due to COVID. Working age people don't die as frequently as older people. But they are dying at a much greater rate now than they were two years ago.
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