Dr. Craig Spencer's ER observations

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BackInTex
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Re: Dr. Craig Spencer's ER observations

#26 Post by BackInTex » Wed Jan 05, 2022 11:04 pm

silverscreenselect wrote:
Wed Jan 05, 2022 10:39 pm
Indiana life insurance CEO says deaths are up 40% among people ages 18-64
The head of Indianapolis-based insurance company OneAmerica said the death rate is up a stunning 40% from pre-pandemic levels among working-age people.
“We are seeing, right now, the highest death rates we have seen in the history of this business – not just at OneAmerica,” the company’s CEO Scott Davison said during an online news conference this week. “The data is consistent across every player in that business.”

Davison said the increase in deaths represents “huge, huge numbers,” and that’s it’s not elderly people who are dying, but “primarily working-age people 18 to 64” who are the employees of companies that have group life insurance plans through OneAmerica. “And what we saw just in third quarter, we’re seeing it continue into fourth quarter, is that death rates are up 40% over what they were pre-pandemic,” he said. “Just to give you an idea of how bad that is, a three-sigma or a one-in-200-year catastrophe would be 10% increase over pre-pandemic,” he said. “So 40% is just unheard of.”

Most of the claims for deaths being filed are not classified as COVID-19 deaths, Davison said. “What the data is showing to us is that the deaths that are being reported as COVID deaths greatly understate the actual death losses among working-age people from the pandemic. It may not all be COVID on their death certificate, but deaths are up just huge, huge numbers.” He said at the same time, the company is seeing an “uptick” in disability claims, saying at first it was short-term disability claims, and now the increase is in long-term disability claims.
Insurance people do not have a political ax to grind one way or another in regard to COVID issues. They compile statistics on mortality and morbidity and set their rates accordingly. Unlike some people on this Bored who keep claiming that it's only a few elderly people who were already at death's door and just die a couple of months earlier due to COVID. Working age people don't die as frequently as older people. But they are dying at a much greater rate now than they were two years ago.
Insurance people do not have a political ax to grind, but you do. You failed to mention this:

Fentanyl overdoses killing more Americans than COVID-19

And yet, you are not screaming about open borders, the primary way fentanyl gets in the country, to kill all those people you hope others assume just died from Covid.
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Re: Dr. Craig Spencer's ER observations

#27 Post by Bob78164 » Wed Jan 05, 2022 11:32 pm

BackInTex wrote:
Wed Jan 05, 2022 11:04 pm
Insurance people do not have a political ax to grind, but you do. You failed to mention this:

Fentanyl overdoses killing more Americans than COVID-19

And yet, you are not screaming about open borders, the primary way fentanyl gets in the country, to kill all those people you hope others assume just died from Covid.
He's not screaming about open borders because, contrary to the lies Fox News peddles, the United States doesn't have open borders. Not remotely close. --Bob
"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear." Thomas Jefferson

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Re: Dr. Craig Spencer's ER observations

#28 Post by BackInTex » Thu Jan 06, 2022 9:15 am

Bob78164 wrote:
Wed Jan 05, 2022 11:32 pm
BackInTex wrote:
Wed Jan 05, 2022 11:04 pm
Insurance people do not have a political ax to grind, but you do. You failed to mention this:

Fentanyl overdoses killing more Americans than COVID-19

And yet, you are not screaming about open borders, the primary way fentanyl gets in the country, to kill all those people you hope others assume just died from Covid.
He's not screaming about open borders because, contrary to the lies Fox News peddles, the United States doesn't have open borders. Not remotely close. --Bob
Not officially, but effectively, we have open borders.
..what country can preserve it’s liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? let them take arms.
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Re: Dr. Craig Spencer's ER observations

#29 Post by silverscreenselect » Thu Jan 06, 2022 10:10 am

BackInTex wrote:
Wed Jan 05, 2022 11:04 pm
Insurance people do not have a political ax to grind, but you do. You failed to mention this:

Fentanyl overdoses killing more Americans than COVID-19

And yet, you are not screaming about open borders, the primary way fentanyl gets in the country, to kill all those people you hope others assume just died from Covid.
Of course, your scare headline omits one big detail from the data, that it's limited to adults 18-45.

Leaving aside your classical "whataboutism" here, the fentanyl problem is not a matter of what Fox News calls open borders. Much of the high grade fentanyl in this country comes from China and India through the mail and other international package services, as well as by boat. Because of its potency, a little high grade fentanyl goes a long way on the street. And arrests and seizures along the Mexican border continue to rise as well.
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Re: Dr. Craig Spencer's ER observations

#30 Post by BackInTex » Thu Jan 06, 2022 11:51 am

silverscreenselect wrote:
Thu Jan 06, 2022 10:10 am

Of course, your scare headline omits one big detail from the data, that it's limited to adults 18-45.
WTF?????

Here is what you posted....
Indiana life insurance CEO says deaths are up 40% among people ages 18-64
You posted your "Big News" about deaths being up 40% for ages 18-64 in a Covid themed thread, implying Covid is causing the increase in mortality for that age group (likely as a counter to someone arguing Covid is only deadly to older folks).

I post an article explaining increase deaths that mentions the age range of 18-45 and you are dismissing it because of.....it's not the exact range of your "scare story"?
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Re: Dr. Craig Spencer's ER observations

#31 Post by silverscreenselect » Thu Jan 06, 2022 12:04 pm

BackInTex wrote:
Thu Jan 06, 2022 11:51 am
I post an article explaining increase deaths that mentions the age range of 18-45 and you are dismissing it because of.....it's not the exact range of your "scare story"?
My headline noted that deaths were up among those 18-64 (which happens to be the target demographic for this company's life insurance sales which are group life sales to companies for their employees). Yours just says that Fentanyl overdoses are killing more Americans than COVID. My statement was correct and not misleading. Yours was incorrect and misleading.

And no one has ever argued that drug overdoses are a leading cause of death among younger adults or that Fentanyl has increased the problem dramatically. We have at least one very prominent poster on this Bored who keeps talking about COVID deaths of people over 85.
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Re: Dr. Craig Spencer's ER observations

#32 Post by tlynn78 » Thu Jan 06, 2022 1:04 pm

BackInTex wrote:
Thu Jan 06, 2022 11:51 am
silverscreenselect wrote:
Thu Jan 06, 2022 10:10 am

Of course, your scare headline omits one big detail from the data, that it's limited to adults 18-45.
WTF?????

Here is what you posted....
Indiana life insurance CEO says deaths are up 40% among people ages 18-64
You posted your "Big News" about deaths being up 40% for ages 18-64 in a Covid themed thread, implying Covid is causing the increase in mortality for that age group (likely as a counter to someone arguing Covid is only deadly to older folks).

I post an article explaining increase deaths that mentions the age range of 18-45 and you are dismissing it because of.....it's not the exact range of your "scare story"?

I'm in the acceptance stage of "you can't fix the willfully stupid."
To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead. -Thomas Paine

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Re: Dr. Craig Spencer's ER observations

#33 Post by silverscreenselect » Thu Jan 06, 2022 1:13 pm

tlynn78 wrote:
Thu Jan 06, 2022 1:04 pm
I'm in the acceptance stage of "you can't fix the willfully stupid."
Please let Spock know.
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Re: Dr. Craig Spencer's ER observations

#34 Post by Weyoun » Thu Jan 06, 2022 1:33 pm

Folks who are so concerned about fentanyl:

Are you in favor of making Narcan readily available? This would include local EMS giving it out and it being paid for by tax dollars.

Just wondering. Usually the type that mentions this stuff is also the type of person that moans that we are giving Narcan out to druggies but not insulin out to diabetics (why not both? would be one counter).

In my experience, it’s made a world of difference in western Pennsylvania. Narcan is readily available. You can write a script for it and the pharmacy gives it away for free. EMS will leave it on scene. I was all confused about the number of opiate deaths nationally just because locally things had so improved.

As for the numbers we are arguing in Indiana, it’s both Covid and opiates, right?

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Re: Dr. Craig Spencer's ER observations

#35 Post by BackInTex » Thu Jan 06, 2022 8:07 pm

Weyoun wrote:
Thu Jan 06, 2022 1:33 pm
Folks who are so concerned about fentanyl:
......

As for the numbers we are arguing in Indiana, it’s both Covid and opiates, right?
I don't know who's concerned about fentanyl. I'm sure some are.

Indiana? No one is arguing about anything in Indiana. The only reference to Indiana was where the HQ of the insurance company is and a conference held there where some of the stats were discussed. The insurance company is a national company and the stats in SSS's article and the one I posted never mention Indiana (other than where the company is HQ).
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Re: Dr. Craig Spencer's ER observations

#36 Post by Weyoun » Fri Jan 07, 2022 10:20 am

BackInTex wrote:
Thu Jan 06, 2022 8:07 pm
Weyoun wrote:
Thu Jan 06, 2022 1:33 pm
Folks who are so concerned about fentanyl:
......

As for the numbers we are arguing in Indiana, it’s both Covid and opiates, right?
I don't know who's concerned about fentanyl. I'm sure some are.

Indiana? No one is arguing about anything in Indiana. The only reference to Indiana was where the HQ of the insurance company is and a conference held there where some of the stats were discussed. The insurance company is a national company and the stats in SSS's article and the one I posted never mention Indiana (other than where the company is HQ).
OK, whatever. Either way, we’re talking about people who are dying too young. Nationally or in Indiana.

And you do seem to be concerned about fentanyl, because you were talking about it above, ranting about the borders. As SSS points out, it’s kind of hard to stop the inflow of that drug, unfortunately.

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Re: Dr. Craig Spencer's ER observations

#37 Post by Beebs52 » Fri Jan 07, 2022 11:12 am

Fun fact, not apropos of conversation at large. Fentanyl was one of components of my anesthesia for my craniotomy.
Well, then

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Re: Dr. Craig Spencer's ER observations

#38 Post by tlynn78 » Fri Jan 07, 2022 11:20 am

Beebs52 wrote:
Fri Jan 07, 2022 11:12 am
Fun fact, not apropos of conversation at large. Fentanyl was one of components of my anesthesia for my craniotomy.
Well, you know, moderation in all things. Enaht.
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Re: Dr. Craig Spencer's ER observations

#39 Post by tlynn78 » Fri Jan 07, 2022 11:20 am

silverscreenselect wrote:
Thu Jan 06, 2022 1:13 pm
tlynn78 wrote:
Thu Jan 06, 2022 1:04 pm
I'm in the acceptance stage of "you can't fix the willfully stupid."
Please let Spock know.
Pretty sure he's aware.
To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead. -Thomas Paine

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Re: Dr. Craig Spencer's ER observations

#40 Post by BackInTex » Fri Jan 07, 2022 4:05 pm

Weyoun wrote:
Fri Jan 07, 2022 10:20 am
BackInTex wrote:
Thu Jan 06, 2022 8:07 pm
Weyoun wrote:
Thu Jan 06, 2022 1:33 pm
Folks who are so concerned about fentanyl:
......

As for the numbers we are arguing in Indiana, it’s both Covid and opiates, right?
I don't know who's concerned about fentanyl. I'm sure some are.

Indiana? No one is arguing about anything in Indiana. The only reference to Indiana was where the HQ of the insurance company is and a conference held there where some of the stats were discussed. The insurance company is a national company and the stats in SSS's article and the one I posted never mention Indiana (other than where the company is HQ).
OK, whatever. Either way, we’re talking about people who are dying too young. Nationally or in Indiana.

And you do seem to be concerned about fentanyl, because you were talking about it above, ranting about the borders. As SSS points out, it’s kind of hard to stop the inflow of that drug, unfortunately.
Kind of hard to stop the spread of Covid, too. But that doesn't prevent the government from shutting down businesses and getting people fired.

If only they'd put in 1/4 of the effort...
..what country can preserve it’s liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? let them take arms.
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Re: Dr. Craig Spencer's ER observations

#41 Post by Bob78164 » Fri Jan 07, 2022 4:22 pm

BackInTex wrote:
Fri Jan 07, 2022 4:05 pm
Kind of hard to stop the spread of Covid, too. But that doesn't prevent the government from shutting down businesses and getting people fired.

If only they'd put in 1/4 of the effort...
As far as I know, there haven't been any shutdowns since 2020.

And it's actually been quite easy since about April to stop the spread of COVID. If everyone vaccinates, we're done. People still might catch the disease, but it will put so few of them in the hospital that our health system will be able to cope.

So as far as I'm concerned, the responsibility for all of the disruption we've suffered for the last nine months or so rests squarely on the shoulders of the unvaccinated, and I, for one, have run out of patience for them. At a minimum any business who wants to require its employees or customers to get vaccinated should be free to do so. That's just private enterprise, though it's now contrary to Texas and Florida law. And I really hope that Supreme Court doesn't prolong the pandemic even more by holding that the Administration lacks statutory authority to require that step of large employers. --Bob
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Re: Dr. Craig Spencer's ER observations

#42 Post by BackInTex » Fri Jan 07, 2022 5:15 pm

Bob78164 wrote:
Fri Jan 07, 2022 4:22 pm
BackInTex wrote:
Fri Jan 07, 2022 4:05 pm
Kind of hard to stop the spread of Covid, too. But that doesn't prevent the government from shutting down businesses and getting people fired.

If only they'd put in 1/4 of the effort...
As far as I know, there haven't been any shutdowns since 2020.

And it's actually been quite easy since about April to stop the spread of COVID. If everyone vaccinates, we're done. People still might catch the disease, but it will put so few of them in the hospital that our health system will be able to cope.

So as far as I'm concerned, the responsibility for all of the disruption we've suffered for the last nine months or so rests squarely on the shoulders of the unvaccinated, and I, for one, have run out of patience for them. At a minimum any business who wants to require its employees or customers to get vaccinated should be free to do so. That's just private enterprise, though it's now contrary to Texas and Florida law. And I really hope that Supreme Court doesn't prolong the pandemic even more by holding that the Administration lacks statutory authority to require that step of large employers. --Bob
What is your constitutional argument for such a SC ruling? Or do you think the Constitution is more of what you'd call guidelines?
..what country can preserve it’s liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? let them take arms.
~~ Thomas Jefferson

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Re: Dr. Craig Spencer's ER observations

#43 Post by Bob78164 » Fri Jan 07, 2022 5:22 pm

BackInTex wrote:
Fri Jan 07, 2022 5:15 pm
Bob78164 wrote:
Fri Jan 07, 2022 4:22 pm
BackInTex wrote:
Fri Jan 07, 2022 4:05 pm
Kind of hard to stop the spread of Covid, too. But that doesn't prevent the government from shutting down businesses and getting people fired.

If only they'd put in 1/4 of the effort...
As far as I know, there haven't been any shutdowns since 2020.

And it's actually been quite easy since about April to stop the spread of COVID. If everyone vaccinates, we're done. People still might catch the disease, but it will put so few of them in the hospital that our health system will be able to cope.

So as far as I'm concerned, the responsibility for all of the disruption we've suffered for the last nine months or so rests squarely on the shoulders of the unvaccinated, and I, for one, have run out of patience for them. At a minimum any business who wants to require its employees or customers to get vaccinated should be free to do so. That's just private enterprise, though it's now contrary to Texas and Florida law. And I really hope that Supreme Court doesn't prolong the pandemic even more by holding that the Administration lacks statutory authority to require that step of large employers. --Bob
What is your constitutional argument for such a SC ruling? Or do you think the Constitution is more of what you'd call guidelines?
This isn't a constitutional argument. The federal government clearly has authority under the Commerce Clause to impose that requirement. I don't think any of the litigants are disputing that.

The issue is one of statutory interpretation -- whether COVID falls within the Administration's (specifically, OSHA's) already-existing statutory authority to address emergency conditions. --Bob
"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear." Thomas Jefferson

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Re: Dr. Craig Spencer's ER observations

#44 Post by earendel » Mon Jan 10, 2022 5:51 am

BackInTex wrote:
Fri Jan 07, 2022 5:15 pm
Bob78164 wrote:
Fri Jan 07, 2022 4:22 pm
BackInTex wrote:
Fri Jan 07, 2022 4:05 pm
Kind of hard to stop the spread of Covid, too. But that doesn't prevent the government from shutting down businesses and getting people fired.

If only they'd put in 1/4 of the effort...
As far as I know, there haven't been any shutdowns since 2020.

And it's actually been quite easy since about April to stop the spread of COVID. If everyone vaccinates, we're done. People still might catch the disease, but it will put so few of them in the hospital that our health system will be able to cope.

So as far as I'm concerned, the responsibility for all of the disruption we've suffered for the last nine months or so rests squarely on the shoulders of the unvaccinated, and I, for one, have run out of patience for them. At a minimum any business who wants to require its employees or customers to get vaccinated should be free to do so. That's just private enterprise, though it's now contrary to Texas and Florida law. And I really hope that Supreme Court doesn't prolong the pandemic even more by holding that the Administration lacks statutory authority to require that step of large employers. --Bob
What is your constitutional argument for such a SC ruling? Or do you think the Constitution is more of what you'd call guidelines?
Jacobson vs. Massachusetts 197 U.S. 11 (1905). The court held that states had the authority to enforce a compulsory vaccination requirement. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacobson_v._Massachusetts
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