Arbery Verdict

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tlynn78
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Arbery Verdict

#1 Post by tlynn78 » Wed Nov 24, 2021 12:45 pm

Sounds like they got it right, from what (very) little I've heard. I am confused by the number of counts and the difference between 'malice murder' and felony murder. Not sure how they get multiple counts of felony murder with just the one victim. interesting stuff.
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Re: Arbery Verdict

#2 Post by silverscreenselect » Wed Nov 24, 2021 1:52 pm

tlynn78 wrote:
Wed Nov 24, 2021 12:45 pm
Sounds like they got it right, from what (very) little I've heard. I am confused by the number of counts and the difference between 'malice murder' and felony murder. Not sure how they get multiple counts of felony murder with just the one victim. interesting stuff.
The defendants were charged with four separate felonies in addition to the murder. Assault with a deadly weapon (gun); assault with a deadly weapon (motor vehicle); false imprisonment; and attempt to commit false imprisonment. The son (who pulled the trigger) was convicted of malice murder. The other two men were not. Also, Bryan, the friend who filmed the shooting, was acquitted on the assault with a gun charge and the felony murder in in connection with that charge since he wasn't armed. However, the evidence did show that he helped hem Arbery in with his vehicle so Arbery couldn't escape.

This isn't the end of the case either. McMichael Sr. was a former police investigator who called the district attorney at the time shortly after the murder. He asked her for advice on what he should do because he and his son had been "involved in a shooting." She allegedly advised him to wash his hands. The two McMichaels were allowed to leave the scene. She recused herself from the case shortly afterwards and has since been indicted for violation of her oath of office. Her case is scheduled for trial in February. She has since been defeated for re-election. The acting DA was also a friend of the McMichaels and claimed that he didn't feel prosecution was warranted. About two months later, someone leaked the damaging video to the press and the GBI began its own investigation. The prosecutors who argued the case in court this month were from the Cobb County DA's office in suburban Atlanta. The judge is from Savannah, after all five judges in Glynn County, where the shooting occurred, recused themselves.
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Re: Arbery Verdict

#3 Post by tlynn78 » Wed Nov 24, 2021 2:59 pm

silverscreenselect wrote:
Wed Nov 24, 2021 1:52 pm
tlynn78 wrote:
Wed Nov 24, 2021 12:45 pm
Sounds like they got it right, from what (very) little I've heard. I am confused by the number of counts and the difference between 'malice murder' and felony murder. Not sure how they get multiple counts of felony murder with just the one victim. interesting stuff.
The defendants were charged with four separate felonies in addition to the murder. Assault with a deadly weapon (gun); assault with a deadly weapon (motor vehicle); false imprisonment; and attempt to commit false imprisonment. The son (who pulled the trigger) was convicted of malice murder. The other two men were not. Also, Bryan, the friend who filmed the shooting, was acquitted on the assault with a gun charge and the felony murder in in connection with that charge since he wasn't armed. However, the evidence did show that he helped hem Arbery in with his vehicle so Arbery couldn't escape.

This isn't the end of the case either. McMichael Sr. was a former police investigator who called the district attorney at the time shortly after the murder. He asked her for advice on what he should do because he and his son had been "involved in a shooting." She allegedly advised him to wash his hands. The two McMichaels were allowed to leave the scene. She recused herself from the case shortly afterwards and has since been indicted for violation of her oath of office. Her case is scheduled for trial in February. She has since been defeated for re-election. The acting DA was also a friend of the McMichaels and claimed that he didn't feel prosecution was warranted. About two months later, someone leaked the damaging video to the press and the GBI began its own investigation. The prosecutors who argued the case in court this month were from the Cobb County DA's office in suburban Atlanta. The judge is from Savannah, after all five judges in Glynn County, where the shooting occurred, recused themselves.
I get that, but what I found interesting was the multiple felony murder charges, in addition to the malice murder for the first one for whom the verdicts were read, with just the one victim. Just different from how things are charged here, and I always find the differences between jurisdictions fascinating.
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Re: Arbery Verdict

#4 Post by BackInTex » Wed Nov 24, 2021 3:08 pm

tlynn78 wrote:
Wed Nov 24, 2021 12:45 pm
Sounds like they got it right, from what (very) little I've heard.
Yep, the jury system has worked well this past week in the two major cases.
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Re: Arbery Verdict

#5 Post by tlynn78 » Wed Nov 24, 2021 3:17 pm

BackInTex wrote:
Wed Nov 24, 2021 3:08 pm
tlynn78 wrote:
Wed Nov 24, 2021 12:45 pm
Sounds like they got it right, from what (very) little I've heard.
Yep, the jury system has worked well this past week in the two major cases.
At least two!
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Re: Arbery Verdict

#6 Post by silverscreenselect » Wed Nov 24, 2021 3:20 pm

tlynn78 wrote:
Wed Nov 24, 2021 2:59 pm
I get that, but what I found interesting was the multiple felony murder charges, in addition to the malice murder for the first one for whom the verdicts were read, with just the one victim. Just different from how things are charged here, and I always find the differences between jurisdictions fascinating.
Each felony murder charge is predicated on a different underlying offense. The three most serious charges are independent of each other. It's possible that a jury could find one or more of the defendants not guilty (or have a guilty verdict overturned on appeal) on one or more of the underlying offenses, which would automatically make them not guilty of that particular felony murder charge. That's what happened with Bryan here, who said he didn't know that the McMichaels were armed and he wasn't armed himself.
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Re: Arbery Verdict

#7 Post by Bob78164 » Thu Nov 25, 2021 12:34 pm

Here's the thing to remember about the Arbery verdict. The local prosecutor had that video long before the public did. His office watched the video long before that public saw it. And after watching it, they concluded, "Nothing to see here, no need to prosecute." The prosecution happened only because the video went public.

That, right there, is the reason why the cynicism of so many people of color about the criminal justice system is justified. Yes, the result appears to be plainly correct. But the trial very nearly never happened. --Bob
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Re: Arbery Verdict

#8 Post by Beebs52 » Thu Nov 25, 2021 1:25 pm

Bob78164 wrote:
Thu Nov 25, 2021 12:34 pm
Here's the thing to remember about the Arbery verdict. The local prosecutor had that video long before the public did. His office watched the video long before that public saw it. And after watching it, they concluded, "Nothing to see here, no need to prosecute." The prosecution happened only because the video went public.

That, right there, is the reason why the cynicism of so many people of color about the criminal justice system is justified. Yes, the result appears to be plainly correct. But the trial very nearly never happened. --Bob
But IT HAPPENED.
Well, then

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Re: Arbery Verdict

#9 Post by Bob78164 » Thu Nov 25, 2021 2:21 pm

Beebs52 wrote:
Thu Nov 25, 2021 1:25 pm
Bob78164 wrote:
Thu Nov 25, 2021 12:34 pm
Here's the thing to remember about the Arbery verdict. The local prosecutor had that video long before the public did. His office watched the video long before that public saw it. And after watching it, they concluded, "Nothing to see here, no need to prosecute." The prosecution happened only because the video went public.

That, right there, is the reason why the cynicism of so many people of color about the criminal justice system is justified. Yes, the result appears to be plainly correct. But the trial very nearly never happened. --Bob
But IT HAPPENED.
Yes it did. How many others didn't happen, aren't happening, because the video never leaked? --Bob
"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear." Thomas Jefferson

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Re: Arbery Verdict

#10 Post by Beebs52 » Thu Nov 25, 2021 2:49 pm

I can't even
Well, then

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Re: Arbery Verdict

#11 Post by Beebs52 » Thu Nov 25, 2021 2:51 pm

You can't be happy when things go right?
Well, then

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Re: Arbery Verdict

#12 Post by Bob78164 » Thu Nov 25, 2021 3:07 pm

Beebs52 wrote:
Thu Nov 25, 2021 2:51 pm
You can't be happy when things go right?
I'm not willing to overlook the many, many times when things go preventably wrong.

This verdict doesn't justify any kind of a victory lap (except for the sense of justice it undoubtedly brings to Mr. Arbery's family). Our society will deserve the victory lap when this is the rule, not the exception. We're not there yet. I don't think we're particularly close. And we won't get there unless we, as a society, maintain the pressure. --Bob
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Re: Arbery Verdict

#13 Post by Beebs52 » Thu Nov 25, 2021 3:20 pm

You "intend" to do all sorts of things. Are you gonna go all radical and anarchist on us? When do I get reparations for all the millenia of woman abuse? Including slavery and sexual assault. And what about and what about...
Well, then

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Re: Arbery Verdict

#14 Post by kroxquo » Thu Nov 25, 2021 6:20 pm

This opinion piece sums up Bob's position with which I agree.
https://www.cnn.com/2021/11/25/opinion ... index.html
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Re: Arbery Verdict

#15 Post by tlynn78 » Thu Nov 25, 2021 6:41 pm

kroxquo wrote:
Thu Nov 25, 2021 6:20 pm
This opinion piece sums up Bob's position with which I agree.
https://www.cnn.com/2021/11/25/opinion ... index.html
Article lost me at "racist Trump." Krox, just curious, do you feel Biden displays racist behaviors?
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Re: Arbery Verdict

#16 Post by tlynn78 » Thu Nov 25, 2021 6:48 pm

Beebs52 wrote:
Thu Nov 25, 2021 3:20 pm
You "intend" to do all sorts of things. Are you gonna go all radical and anarchist on us? When do I get reparations for all the millenia of woman abuse? Including slavery and sexual assault. And what about and what about...
Let Bobbo have his social justice fantasies. :roll:
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Re: Arbery Verdict

#17 Post by Beebs52 » Thu Nov 25, 2021 6:54 pm

kroxquo wrote:
Thu Nov 25, 2021 6:20 pm
This opinion piece sums up Bob's position with which I agree.
https://www.cnn.com/2021/11/25/opinion ... index.html
The mostly white jury found them guilty. Um. You don't think a trial was necessary? You think bad people are going to go away because you want them to?
Well, then

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Re: Arbery Verdict

#18 Post by kroxquo » Thu Nov 25, 2021 10:50 pm

Beebs52 wrote:
Thu Nov 25, 2021 6:54 pm
kroxquo wrote:
Thu Nov 25, 2021 6:20 pm
This opinion piece sums up Bob's position with which I agree.
https://www.cnn.com/2021/11/25/opinion ... index.html
The mostly white jury found them guilty. Um. You don't think a trial was necessary? You think bad people are going to go away because you want them to?
The point that the author is making that this case is exceptional when it shouldn't be. The way this trial went should be the way that they always go (that can't be said of the investigation). Of course a trial was necessary; that is how our legal system works which it did in this case. I am not sure how you reached that conclusion from this editorial
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Re: Arbery Verdict

#19 Post by kroxquo » Thu Nov 25, 2021 11:00 pm

tlynn78 wrote:
Thu Nov 25, 2021 6:41 pm
kroxquo wrote:
Thu Nov 25, 2021 6:20 pm
This opinion piece sums up Bob's position with which I agree.
https://www.cnn.com/2021/11/25/opinion ... index.html
Article lost me at "racist Trump." Krox, just curious, do you feel Biden displays racist behaviors?
The article called the 45th President "bigoted" not racist. There is a subtle but important difference. Dictionary.com defines bigoted as "utterly intolerant of any creed, belief, or opinion that differs from one's own." That describes the 45th President's words and deeds perfectly.
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Re: Arbery Verdict

#20 Post by tlynn78 » Fri Nov 26, 2021 10:40 am

kroxquo wrote:
Thu Nov 25, 2021 11:00 pm
tlynn78 wrote:
Thu Nov 25, 2021 6:41 pm
kroxquo wrote:
Thu Nov 25, 2021 6:20 pm
This opinion piece sums up Bob's position with which I agree.
https://www.cnn.com/2021/11/25/opinion ... index.html
Article lost me at "racist Trump." Krox, just curious, do you feel Biden displays racist behaviors?
The article called the 45th President "bigoted" not racist. There is a subtle but important difference. Dictionary.com defines bigoted as "utterly intolerant of any creed, belief, or opinion that differs from one's own." That describes the 45th President's words and deeds perfectly.
I stand corrected. You didn't answer my question, but that's okay. And you're utterly wrong about Trump, but that's okay, too. Actually, that description sounds a whole lot more like the left than anyone else. Stay woke!
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Re: Arbery Verdict

#21 Post by kroxquo » Fri Nov 26, 2021 10:56 am

tlynn78 wrote:
Fri Nov 26, 2021 10:40 am
kroxquo wrote:
Thu Nov 25, 2021 11:00 pm
tlynn78 wrote:
Thu Nov 25, 2021 6:41 pm


Article lost me at "racist Trump." Krox, just curious, do you feel Biden displays racist behaviors?
The article called the 45th President "bigoted" not racist. There is a subtle but important difference. Dictionary.com defines bigoted as "utterly intolerant of any creed, belief, or opinion that differs from one's own." That describes the 45th President's words and deeds perfectly.
I stand corrected. You didn't answer my question, but that's okay. And you're utterly wrong about Trump, but that's okay, too. Actually, that description sounds a whole lot more like the left than anyone else. Stay woke!
I'm not going to get caught up in a game of whataboutism.

Here is a list of times that the 45th President was intolerant of an opinion that differed from his own:
The 2016 election was rigged to deny him a popular victory
He had the largest inaugural crowd in history
A hurricane threatened Alabama
People should wear masks to prevent a pandemic
Vladimir Putin can be trusted to be honest with him
It's okay to pressure a the leader of a foreign country for political gain
He actually won the 2020 election

Name me one time that he was tolerant of an opinion that differed from his own.
Last edited by kroxquo on Fri Nov 26, 2021 11:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Arbery Verdict

#22 Post by silverscreenselect » Fri Nov 26, 2021 11:01 am

tlynn78 wrote:
Fri Nov 26, 2021 10:40 am
Actually, that description sounds a whole lot more like the left than anyone else.
You mean like these fine, tolerant people

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Re: Arbery Verdict

#23 Post by tlynn78 » Fri Nov 26, 2021 11:07 am

"I'm not going to get caught up in a game of whataboutism."

Which means you know full well Biden has exhibited far more bigotry than Trump ever did, but he's not Trump, so you just don't care

Name me one time that the 45th President was tolerant of an opinion that differed from his own.

Oh, bless your heart. For starters, he ran as a Republican.
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Re: Arbery Verdict

#24 Post by tlynn78 » Fri Nov 26, 2021 11:08 am

silverscreenselect wrote:
Fri Nov 26, 2021 11:01 am
tlynn78 wrote:
Fri Nov 26, 2021 10:40 am
Actually, that description sounds a whole lot more like the left than anyone else.
You mean like these fine, tolerant people

Image
You are laughable.
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Re: Arbery Verdict

#25 Post by tlynn78 » Fri Nov 26, 2021 11:14 am

tlynn78 wrote:
Fri Nov 26, 2021 11:07 am
"I'm not going to get caught up in a game of whataboutism."

Which means you know full well Biden has exhibited far more bigotry than Trump ever did, but he's not Trump, so you just don't care

Name me one time that the 45th President was tolerant of an opinion that differed from his own.

Oh, bless your heart. For starters, he ran as a Republican.
"Here is a list of times that the 45th President was intolerant of an opinion that differed from his own:

The 2016 election was rigged to deny him a popular victory - that's not intolerance. And does the phrase "Russian collusion" mean anything? Hilz?
He had the largest inaugural crowd in history - again, not intolerance.
A hurricane threatened Alabama - again...
People should wear masks to prevent a pandemic - lol - psst, read the label on the box of masks.
Vladimir Putin can be trusted to be honest with him - so he's "tolerant" of Putin and not Xi Jinpin
It's okay to pressure a the leader of a foreign country for political gain - HAHAHAHAHA!! Biden, Ukraine?
He actually won the 2020 election" - again, not intolerance.

Krox, you satisfied my initial question by avoiding it. By the way, Biden's your president now, so you want to turn your attention to all his "accomplishments" and leave the orange bogeyman meme behind.
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