Alec Baldwin kills one with a prop gun, injures another

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Re: Alec Baldwin kills one with a prop gun, injures another

#26 Post by Bob78164 » Thu Oct 28, 2021 11:17 am

Ritterskoop wrote:
Sun Oct 24, 2021 1:51 pm
I did a ridiculous amount of reading on this last night, and it is very clear that Alec Baldwin is not at all responsible.

The 24-year-old armorer is going to be in appropriate deep shit, as well as the AD who handed him the gun and said it was "cold," meaning unloaded.

Plus other people who made the set unhealthy and dangerous.
It may be premature to exonerate Baldwin. In addition to being an actor on the film, he was also a producer. It's not yet clear what his responsibility in that role was or should have been, but the Los Angeles Times published a story yesterday to the effect that an experienced armorer turned down the gig because he thought the producers were devoting so few resources to safety that he saw the project as a disaster waiting to happen. A big issue highlighted in the story was that they hired so few people that the armorer had responsibilities in addition to gun safety, which seems to be a major no-no. --Bob
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Re: Alec Baldwin kills one with a prop gun, injures another

#27 Post by silverscreenselect » Thu Oct 28, 2021 12:07 pm

BackInTex wrote:
Thu Oct 28, 2021 9:50 am
Not sure a novice could at first glance tell a round was live or a blank unless the two were side by side.
For scenes in which nobody fires a gun, they use prop bullets with no explosive charge at all. In the scene they were rehearsing, Baldwin pointed the gun at the camera, which explains how the cinematographer and director got shot when the gun went off. So someone would have had to tell the difference between the dummy bullets and real bullets. I had read that the cartridges of prop bullets were painted so they could be distinguished from blanks or real bullets, but without paint or some sort of marking, they would look real.

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Re: Alec Baldwin kills one with a prop gun, injures another

#28 Post by Bob Juch » Thu Oct 28, 2021 4:50 pm

BackInTex wrote:
Thu Oct 28, 2021 9:50 am
I've only fired blanks during military training exercises using an M-16. Since they were automatic weapons (could be fully or semi automatic with the flip of a lever) we had to put a device on the end of the barrel to block the blast force of the cartridge when fired to force the recoil of the bolt. Otherwise the blank round would not provide enough force to recoil the bolt because there is nothing being pushed out of the barrel (no projectile and not enough equal and opposite force per the physics).

The blank rounds used were painted to easily indicate they were blanks (you didn't want a live round accidently discharge while the blocking device was in place, else your weapon would explode). Even without the paint you could differentiate blanks from live rounds as there was no projectile positioned at the end of the casing, just packing and a crimped tip.

I'm sure an experienced person can easily tell a blank form a live round. Not sure a novice could at first glance tell a round was live or a blank unless the two were side by side.
Yes, but there were supposed to be all dummy rounds in the revolver. They have to look the same as a live round, no paint, etc. so it would look real on camera.
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Re: Alec Baldwin kills one with a prop gun, injures another

#29 Post by Beebs52 » Thu Oct 28, 2021 4:53 pm

Bob Juch wrote:
Thu Oct 28, 2021 4:50 pm
BackInTex wrote:
Thu Oct 28, 2021 9:50 am
I've only fired blanks during military training exercises using an M-16. Since they were automatic weapons (could be fully or semi automatic with the flip of a lever) we had to put a device on the end of the barrel to block the blast force of the cartridge when fired to force the recoil of the bolt. Otherwise the blank round would not provide enough force to recoil the bolt because there is nothing being pushed out of the barrel (no projectile and not enough equal and opposite force per the physics).

The blank rounds used were painted to easily indicate they were blanks (you didn't want a live round accidently discharge while the blocking device was in place, else your weapon would explode). Even without the paint you could differentiate blanks from live rounds as there was no projectile positioned at the end of the casing, just packing and a crimped tip.

I'm sure an experienced person can easily tell a blank form a live round. Not sure a novice could at first glance tell a round was live or a blank unless the two were side by side.
Yes, but there were supposed to be all dummy rounds in the revolver. They have to look the same as a live round, no paint, etc. so it would look real on camera.
Not trying to be obnoxious here. How does anyone see the actual blank etc when fired?
Well, then

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Re: Alec Baldwin kills one with a prop gun, injures another

#30 Post by BackInTex » Thu Oct 28, 2021 5:13 pm

Beebs52 wrote:
Thu Oct 28, 2021 4:53 pm
Bob Juch wrote:
Thu Oct 28, 2021 4:50 pm
BackInTex wrote:
Thu Oct 28, 2021 9:50 am
I've only fired blanks during military training exercises using an M-16. Since they were automatic weapons (could be fully or semi automatic with the flip of a lever) we had to put a device on the end of the barrel to block the blast force of the cartridge when fired to force the recoil of the bolt. Otherwise the blank round would not provide enough force to recoil the bolt because there is nothing being pushed out of the barrel (no projectile and not enough equal and opposite force per the physics).

The blank rounds used were painted to easily indicate they were blanks (you didn't want a live round accidently discharge while the blocking device was in place, else your weapon would explode). Even without the paint you could differentiate blanks from live rounds as there was no projectile positioned at the end of the casing, just packing and a crimped tip.

I'm sure an experienced person can easily tell a blank form a live round. Not sure a novice could at first glance tell a round was live or a blank unless the two were side by side.
Yes, but there were supposed to be all dummy rounds in the revolver. They have to look the same as a live round, no paint, etc. so it would look real on camera.
Not trying to be obnoxious here. How does anyone see the actual blank etc when fired?
No. The only time the round would be seen is when unloading or loading.
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Re: Alec Baldwin kills one with a prop gun, injures another

#31 Post by Bob Juch » Thu Oct 28, 2021 6:47 pm

BackInTex wrote:
Thu Oct 28, 2021 5:13 pm
Beebs52 wrote:
Thu Oct 28, 2021 4:53 pm
Bob Juch wrote:
Thu Oct 28, 2021 4:50 pm


Yes, but there were supposed to be all dummy rounds in the revolver. They have to look the same as a live round, no paint, etc. so it would look real on camera.
Not trying to be obnoxious here. How does anyone see the actual blank etc when fired?
No. The only time the round would be seen is when unloading or loading.
Say what?
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Re: Alec Baldwin kills one with a prop gun, injures another

#32 Post by Spock » Sun Oct 31, 2021 5:22 pm

Stephen Hunter column on the shooting.

Hunter (former Pulitzer Prize film critic for the Washington Post) comes from both the film and gun world. He probably is the best fit for a Venn Diagram of people knowing the film and gun worlds.

https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/ ... ooting.php

He describes (given the specific gun) the mechanics of how the shot happened.

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Re: Alec Baldwin kills one with a prop gun, injures another

#33 Post by silverscreenselect » Sun Oct 31, 2021 6:05 pm

Bob Juch wrote:
Thu Oct 28, 2021 4:50 pm

Yes, but there were supposed to be all dummy rounds in the revolver. They have to look the same as a live round, no paint, etc. so it would look real on camera.
The bullets would look the same as regular bullets, but the cartridges, which aren't seen when they are inside the revolver chamber, can be painted. It doesn't have to be the entire cartridge, just a thin band of paint to distinguish them from regular cartridges.
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Re: Alec Baldwin kills one with a prop gun, injures another

#34 Post by Bob Juch » Mon Nov 01, 2021 7:46 am

silverscreenselect wrote:
Sun Oct 31, 2021 6:05 pm
Bob Juch wrote:
Thu Oct 28, 2021 4:50 pm

Yes, but there were supposed to be all dummy rounds in the revolver. They have to look the same as a live round, no paint, etc. so it would look real on camera.
The bullets would look the same as regular bullets, but the cartridges, which aren't seen when they are inside the revolver chamber, can be painted. It doesn't have to be the entire cartridge, just a thin band of paint to distinguish them from regular cartridges.
The cartridges usually have a hole punched in them.
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Re: Alec Baldwin kills one with a prop gun, injures another

#35 Post by Bob Juch » Mon Nov 01, 2021 8:16 am

Spock wrote:
Sun Oct 31, 2021 5:22 pm
Stephen Hunter column on the shooting.

Hunter (former Pulitzer Prize film critic for the Washington Post) comes from both the film and gun world. He probably is the best fit for a Venn Diagram of people knowing the film and gun worlds.

https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/ ... ooting.php

He describes (given the specific gun) the mechanics of how the shot happened.
Hunter makes several bad assumptions in his article. He obviously is ignorant of the actual accounts.

First of all, Baldwin was drawing from a shoulder holster; the gun was not on his hip.

Also, Baldwin did not accidentally fire the weapon. He was intentionally drawing and firing (with a "cold" gun) at the camera. Halyna Hutchins was standing behind the camera to check that the angle was right. Joel Souza was standing behind her.

Baldwin hit what he was aiming at.
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Re: Alec Baldwin kills one with a prop gun, injures another

#36 Post by silverscreenselect » Tue Nov 02, 2021 11:37 am

On last night's episode of NCIS (filmed before the Baldwin incident), the killer shot the victim with a gun loaded with blanks, saying he only meant to scare the victim, and was unaware about the lethal power of the exploded wadding.
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Re: Alec Baldwin kills one with a prop gun, injures another

#37 Post by silverscreenselect » Sat Nov 06, 2021 11:57 pm

Donald Trump 11/4/21 wrote:[Baldwin is] a troubled guy. There's something wrong with him. I've watched him for years. He gets into fistfights with reporters. He's a cuckoo-bird, he's a nutjob. And usually, when there's somebody like that, you know, in my opinion, he had something to do with it.
...
As bad as [the gun] may have been kept, meaning you know the people that take care of the equipment and the guns and everything else… But even if it was loaded, and that's a weird thing— maybe he loaded it. There's something wrong with him. He's a sick guy. I mean, I've seen him for years because he did. I thought a poor job of imitating me,
https://www.insider.com/trump-claims-al ... se-2021-11

For most people, these comments would be an all-time low, but for Trump, they don't even make the Bottom 100.
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Re: Alec Baldwin kills one with a prop gun, injures another

#38 Post by BackInTex » Sun Nov 07, 2021 12:49 am

Bob Juch wrote:
Mon Nov 01, 2021 8:16 am
Spock wrote:
Sun Oct 31, 2021 5:22 pm
Stephen Hunter column on the shooting.

Hunter (former Pulitzer Prize film critic for the Washington Post) comes from both the film and gun world. He probably is the best fit for a Venn Diagram of people knowing the film and gun worlds.

https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/ ... ooting.php

He describes (given the specific gun) the mechanics of how the shot happened.
Hunter makes several bad assumptions in his article. He obviously is ignorant of the actual accounts.

First of all, Baldwin was drawing from a shoulder holster; the gun was not on his hip.

Also, Baldwin did not accidentally fire the weapon. He was intentionally drawing and firing (with a "cold" gun) at the camera. Halyna Hutchins was standing behind the camera to check that the angle was right. Joel Souza was standing behind her.

Baldwin hit what he was aiming at.
I’ve read several articles saying Baldwin was cross-drawing but none indicated whether it was a belt or shoulder holster.
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Re: Alec Baldwin kills one with a prop gun, injures another

#39 Post by BackInTex » Sun Nov 07, 2021 12:54 am

silverscreenselect wrote:
Sat Nov 06, 2021 11:57 pm
Donald Trump 11/4/21 wrote:[Baldwin is] a troubled guy. There's something wrong with him. I've watched him for years. He gets into fistfights with reporters. He's a cuckoo-bird, he's a nutjob. And usually, when there's somebody like that, you know, in my opinion, he had something to do with it.
...
As bad as [the gun] may have been kept, meaning you know the people that take care of the equipment and the guns and everything else… But even if it was loaded, and that's a weird thing— maybe he loaded it. There's something wrong with him. He's a sick guy. I mean, I've seen him for years because he did. I thought a poor job of imitating me,
https://www.insider.com/trump-claims-al ... se-2021-11

For most people, these comments would be an all-time low, but for Trump, they don't even make the Bottom 100.
I could pull up 100’s of worse comments about Nick Sandmann and he isn’t an asshole nor did he shoot someone.

Probably can find some here.
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Re: Alec Baldwin kills one with a prop gun, injures another

#40 Post by silverscreenselect » Sun Nov 07, 2021 7:41 am

BackInTex wrote:
Sun Nov 07, 2021 12:54 am
I could pull up 100’s of worse comments about Nick Sandmann and he isn’t an asshole nor did he shoot someone.
I'd be willing to bet that none of those comments came from a President or ex-President of the United States.
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Re: Alec Baldwin kills one with a prop gun, injures another

#41 Post by Bob Juch » Sun Nov 07, 2021 11:01 am

BackInTex wrote:
Sun Nov 07, 2021 12:49 am
Bob Juch wrote:
Mon Nov 01, 2021 8:16 am
Spock wrote:
Sun Oct 31, 2021 5:22 pm
Stephen Hunter column on the shooting.

Hunter (former Pulitzer Prize film critic for the Washington Post) comes from both the film and gun world. He probably is the best fit for a Venn Diagram of people knowing the film and gun worlds.

https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/ ... ooting.php

He describes (given the specific gun) the mechanics of how the shot happened.
Hunter makes several bad assumptions in his article. He obviously is ignorant of the actual accounts.

First of all, Baldwin was drawing from a shoulder holster; the gun was not on his hip.

Also, Baldwin did not accidentally fire the weapon. He was intentionally drawing and firing (with a "cold" gun) at the camera. Halyna Hutchins was standing behind the camera to check that the angle was right. Joel Souza was standing behind her.

Baldwin hit what he was aiming at.
I’ve read several articles saying Baldwin was cross-drawing but none indicated whether it was a belt or shoulder holster.
I did.
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Re: Alec Baldwin kills one with a prop gun, injures another

#42 Post by Bob Juch » Thu Dec 02, 2021 6:02 pm

Alec Baldwin told ABC News's George Stephanopoulos that he didn't pull the trigger. Since the gun he used is a double-action one, either the weapon was given to him fully-cocked, or he's lying. I don't see why it would have been cocked.
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Re: Alec Baldwin kills one with a prop gun, injures another

#43 Post by BackInTex » Thu Dec 02, 2021 9:39 pm

Bob Juch wrote:
Thu Dec 02, 2021 6:02 pm
Alec Baldwin told ABC News's George Stephanopoulos that he didn't pull the trigger. Since the gun he used is a double-action one, either the weapon was given to him fully-cocked, or he's lying. I don't see why it would have been cocked.
My money is on the lie. Even if cocked he would have had to pull the trigger.
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Re: Alec Baldwin kills one with a prop gun, injures another

#44 Post by silverscreenselect » Thu Dec 02, 2021 10:50 pm

BackInTex wrote:
Thu Dec 02, 2021 9:39 pm
Bob Juch wrote:
Thu Dec 02, 2021 6:02 pm
Alec Baldwin told ABC News's George Stephanopoulos that he didn't pull the trigger. Since the gun he used is a double-action one, either the weapon was given to him fully-cocked, or he's lying. I don't see why it would have been cocked.
My money is on the lie. Even if cocked he would have had to pull the trigger.
What's surprising to me is that Baldwin is giving any interviews about this incident. He's going to be a defendant in the upcoming lawsuits and anything he says might be used to impeach his testimony later.
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Re: Alec Baldwin kills one with a prop gun, injures another

#45 Post by Bob Juch » Wed Dec 08, 2021 9:34 pm

Baldwin says he never pulled the trigger. Experts are skeptical.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... skeptical/
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Re: Alec Baldwin kills one with a prop gun, injures another

#46 Post by BackInTex » Thu Dec 09, 2021 1:13 am

Bob Juch wrote:
Wed Dec 08, 2021 9:34 pm
Baldwin says he never pulled the trigger. Experts are skeptical.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... skeptical/
Yes I am.
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Re: Alec Baldwin kills one with a prop gun, injures another

#47 Post by Vandal » Wed Oct 05, 2022 1:05 pm

Alec Baldwin has reached a settlement with the family of cinematographer Halyna Hutchins, after she was killed on a film set when he fired a prop gun.


Filming of Rust will continue in January, with Ms Hutchins' widower Matthew on board as the movie's executive producer.

All parties believe Ms Hutchins' death was an accident, her husband said.

A lawsuit filed against Mr Baldwin, producers and others, had alleged violations of industry standards.

The exact terms of the settlement, which is subject to court approval, have not been disclosed.

https://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-63149155
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Re: Alec Baldwin kills one with a prop gun, injures another

#48 Post by silverscreenselect » Wed Oct 05, 2022 2:22 pm

Vandal wrote:
Wed Oct 05, 2022 1:05 pm
Filming of Rust will continue in January, with Ms Hutchins' widower Matthew on board as the movie's executive producer.
If that accident hadn't happened, this film would have done zero business and possibly gone direct to streaming. Unfortunately, knowing public morbid curiosity, it will get a number of people to go see it just for that reason.
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Re: Alec Baldwin kills one with a prop gun, injures another

#49 Post by BackInTex » Thu Jan 19, 2023 11:00 am

Alec Baldwin and weapons handler to be charged with manslaughter in deadly ‘Rust’ shooting
New Mexico prosecutors said they are filing felony criminal charges against actor Alec Baldwin and the armorer of the low-budget western “Rust,” following the fatal shooting of the film’s cinematographer.

The charges represent a dramatic culmination of more than a year of speculation over who, if anyone, would be held accountable for the tragic death of cinematographer Halyna Hutchins, a rising star in the film industry. Hutchins was shot in the chest Oct. 21, 2021, as she rehearsed a scene with Baldwin and the film’s director, Joel Souza, who was also wounded.

Baldwin will be charged with two counts of involuntary manslaughter in Hutchins’ death.
Was Hutchins pregnant? How else would they be charging Baldwin with two counts?
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Re: Alec Baldwin kills one with a prop gun, injures another

#50 Post by Bob Juch » Thu Jan 19, 2023 11:20 am

BackInTex wrote:
Thu Jan 19, 2023 11:00 am
Alec Baldwin and weapons handler to be charged with manslaughter in deadly ‘Rust’ shooting
New Mexico prosecutors said they are filing felony criminal charges against actor Alec Baldwin and the armorer of the low-budget western “Rust,” following the fatal shooting of the film’s cinematographer.

The charges represent a dramatic culmination of more than a year of speculation over who, if anyone, would be held accountable for the tragic death of cinematographer Halyna Hutchins, a rising star in the film industry. Hutchins was shot in the chest Oct. 21, 2021, as she rehearsed a scene with Baldwin and the film’s director, Joel Souza, who was also wounded.

Baldwin will be charged with two counts of involuntary manslaughter in Hutchins’ death.
Was Hutchins pregnant? How else would they be charging Baldwin with two counts?
“This decision distorts Halyna Hutchins’ tragic death and represents a terrible miscarriage of justice," according to a statement by Baldwin's attorney, Luke Nikas.

"Mr. Baldwin had no reason to believe there was a live bullet in the gun — or anywhere on the movie set. He relied on the professionals with whom he worked, who assured him the gun did not have live rounds. We will fight these charges, and we will win.”
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