On "Irish Democracy"

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Spock
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On "Irish Democracy"

#1 Post by Spock » Fri Oct 15, 2021 9:03 am

The "Irish Democracy" stuff in a story on Vaccine resistance and so forth is quite interesting.

https://nypost.com/2021/10/14/covid-reg ... ompliance/

>>>"“One need not have an actual conspiracy to achieve the practical effects of a conspiracy. More regimes have been brought, piecemeal, to their knees by what was once called ‘Irish Democracy,’ the silent, dogged resistance, withdrawal and truculence of millions of ordinary people, than by revolutionary vanguards or rioting mobs.”

Irish Democracy is when the populace simply doesn’t cooperate with the agenda. Sometimes there is active sabotage, sometimes surreptitious monkey-wrenching, sometimes foot-dragging and sometimes outright noncompliance. Sometimes it’s all of those at once."<<<<

>>>"Yet about a decade ago, people basically just decided that pot was legal. And for all practical purposes now, it is"<<<<

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Weyoun
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Re: On "Irish Democracy"

#2 Post by Weyoun » Sat Oct 16, 2021 7:24 pm

Pot became virtually legal because folks didn’t really see the harm. The moral harm of policing it seemed much worse.

You’re wrong in this case because your whole philosophical position is based on the idea that you don’t really care if your neighbor dies. That’s morally abhorrent and it means your neighbor will not support your resistance.

How insufferable you are, with your puffed up sense of nobility purely based on your refusal to cooperate

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Re: On "Irish Democracy"

#3 Post by Bob78164 » Sat Oct 16, 2021 9:00 pm

Weyoun wrote:
Sat Oct 16, 2021 7:24 pm
Pot became virtually legal because folks didn’t really see the harm. The moral harm of policing it seemed much worse.

You’re wrong in this case because your whole philosophical position is based on the idea that you don’t really care if your neighbor dies. That’s morally abhorrent and it means your neighbor will not support your resistance.

How insufferable you are, with your puffed up sense of nobility purely based on your refusal to cooperate
Our parents' generation gets to brag that they bravely went to war to protect our citizens from Nazis who were using actual death camps to kill people. Spock and his ilk get to brag that they bravely refused to get an injection or wear a mask to preserve their own freedom to put their neighbors at risk.

No wonder our kids' generation is increasingly disgusted with us. --Bob
"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear." Thomas Jefferson

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Re: On "Irish Democracy"

#4 Post by silverscreenselect » Sat Oct 16, 2021 11:23 pm

Weyoun wrote:
Sat Oct 16, 2021 7:24 pm
You’re wrong in this case because your whole philosophical position is based on the idea that you don’t really care if your neighbor dies. That’s morally abhorrent and it means your neighbor will not support your resistance.
That's one thing that bothers me about the entire resistance movement, not just to vaccines but to all health and safety measures. The people in this country who have played by the rules and avoided risky behavior and worn masks and got vaccines are a large reason why a lot of those who haven't played by those same rules are walking around today. We don't have herd immunity, but we do have a partial immunity due to the large percentage of the population that has been vaccinated and isn't actively spreading the virus around. And avoiding mass gatherings and risky situations made it somewhat less likely for the disease to spread in the days before we had a vaccine. So our "hiding in a basement" as BiT calls it has kept Spock and his ilk safer.

Here's a statistic people seem to ignore because it's just not getting any press nowadays. We still have over 1,000 people a day dying of COVID. That's more than die from any disease other than heart disease or cancer (and it's more than any single type of cancer). The NY Post's form of Irish democracy is to accept this as the new norm for the foreseeable future.
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Re: On "Irish Democracy"

#5 Post by Weyoun » Sun Oct 17, 2021 9:47 am

The only thing preventing the tragedy of the commons is if some folks stop to pick up the litter.

Spock's position is also politically hypocritical. It's freeloading, when he would decry "welfare queens" for taking instead of giving.

Another hypocrisy. I am sure in his mind he won't get bad Covid because he's healthy - and everyone who gets bad Covid is unhealthy or old, so they have it coming anyway (direct experience tells me this is not the case). But no doubt he made a bunch of farting noises about how Hillary/Obamacare would have led to rationing, and that would have killed old people, and we can't let the government do that. Weird how he is totally in favor of what effectively is rationing due to what Covid is doing to the healthcare system, and how those old people he used to be so worried about are now disposable.

One more hypocrisy. Imagine if Joe Biden was president in 2020 and he let a Chinese bioweapon cause all sorts of havoc. He'd be weak on China, right? The "patriotic" thing then would have been to get the vaccine, plus some needless bombing of yellow people.

The only thing that unites all this is that Spock thinks he's got it good, so he doesn't need to give anymore - society need only function well enough to make sure he is safely situated.

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Re: On "Irish Democracy"

#6 Post by Bob78164 » Sun Oct 17, 2021 10:15 am

Weyoun,

I'm curious about your thoughts on the Pennsylvania Democratic Senate primary. --Bob
"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear." Thomas Jefferson

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Re: On "Irish Democracy"

#7 Post by Weyoun » Sun Oct 17, 2021 12:09 pm

Bob78164 wrote:
Sun Oct 17, 2021 10:15 am
Weyoun,

I'm curious about your thoughts on the Pennsylvania Democratic Senate primary. --Bob
I only really know two of the candidates.

Conor Lamb is a robot politician. He went to law school and joined the military specifically to create a résumé to suggest that he knows what he’s talking about. I’m not really impressed with him on any level. He would do well in the suburbs but not in the countryside since he has a party line Democrat. He probably would not inspire Black people to vote. There’s nothing imaginative or interesting about him.

John Fetterman on the other hand is an interesting situation. He is certainly way too progressive for rural voters But he might have some weird edge to them that appeals to their destroy the whole system ethos. He might scare the suburbs. He might motivate the inner city better. I’m not convinced that he has any political accomplishments that we can really write home about. As mayor of Braddock, he was in an impossible situation, but the town has A nice restaurant in a brewery to show for his efforts. However, he seems to be very genuine. And, for what it’s worth, I see him about once a month shopping at the Target near my house.

I think either could win assuming the Republicans do something dumb and a nominate a nutter. It is completely plausible they will nominate that ex military guy Sean Something or Another who I have a strong hunch beat his ex-wife.

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Re: On "Irish Democracy"

#8 Post by BackInTex » Sun Oct 17, 2021 4:00 pm

Weyoun wrote:
Sat Oct 16, 2021 7:24 pm

You’re wrong in this case because your whole philosophical position is based on the idea that you don’t really care if your neighbor dies. That’s morally abhorrent and it means your neighbor will not support your resistance.

How insufferable you are, with your puffed up sense of nobility purely based on your refusal to cooperate
Quite an arrogant and ignorant post. You know nothing of Spock's relationship with his neighbors. I'd wager if he saw his neighbor in trouble (house on fire, being attacked, etc.) he would rush into the house or risk a gun fight to save his neighbor. I'd wager you'd call the fire department or police and watch from your window.

If Spock's neighbor is concerned he should get himself vaccinated.

If the vaccine is so damn good, then take your damn vaccine and shut the heck up. If you don't think the vaccine protects you, then why are you so all in on everyone getting it?
..what country can preserve it’s liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? let them take arms.
~~ Thomas Jefferson

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Re: On "Irish Democracy"

#9 Post by silverscreenselect » Sun Oct 17, 2021 4:19 pm

BackInTex wrote:
Sun Oct 17, 2021 4:00 pm
If the vaccine is so damn good, then take your damn vaccine and shut the heck up. If you don't think the vaccine protects you, then why are you so all in on everyone getting it?
Interesting that you ridicule the one person on this Bored who has the greatest knowledge of medical matters, certainly better than you, Spock, and Donald Trump combined.

Vaccines protect people in the sense that people who are vaccinated are less likely to get the disease and, if they do get it, less likely to be hospitalized or die. They aren't perfect. The more people who are vaccinated, the less chance there is of the disease spreading. And the more that the disease spreads, the greater chance it has of mutating into something much worse.

Spock's neighbor or the person he meets in the grocery store or wherever may be vaccinated. Or he may be unable to be vaccinated. Or he may pass it on to his children who can't be vaccinated. That's a heck of a price to pay for Spock's so-called "freedom."

And to address Weyoun in particular in this manner is reprehensible. Weyoun may or may not just call the fire department if one of his neighbors has a house on fire. But if that neighbor winds up in the hospital with COVID, Weyoun risks his life every day to save that neighbor and others like him. You don't. I don't. Spock doesn't.
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Re: On "Irish Democracy"

#10 Post by silverscreenselect » Sun Oct 17, 2021 4:22 pm

Weyoun wrote:
Sun Oct 17, 2021 9:47 am
One more hypocrisy. Imagine if Joe Biden was president in 2020 and he let a Chinese bioweapon cause all sorts of havoc. He'd be weak on China, right? The "patriotic" thing then would have been to get the vaccine, plus some needless bombing of yellow people.
I am fully convinced that if Trump had been re-elected and started taking victory laps about how wonderful his vaccine was that he developed through Operation Warp Speed, the vast majority of those screaming about their freedoms would be among the first in line to get the "Trump vaccine."
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Re: On "Irish Democracy"

#11 Post by BackInTex » Sun Oct 17, 2021 4:27 pm

silverscreenselect wrote:
Sun Oct 17, 2021 4:19 pm
BackInTex wrote:
Sun Oct 17, 2021 4:00 pm
If the vaccine is so damn good, then take your damn vaccine and shut the heck up. If you don't think the vaccine protects you, then why are you so all in on everyone getting it?
Interesting that you ridicule the one person on this Bored who has the greatest knowledge of medical matters, certainly better than you, Spock, and Donald Trump combined.
He's off limits to ridicule? While he may be knowledgeable in many things, what I ridiculed him of has nothing to do with his medical knowledge.
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Re: On "Irish Democracy"

#12 Post by Weyoun » Sun Oct 17, 2021 6:55 pm

BackInTex wrote:
Sun Oct 17, 2021 4:00 pm
Weyoun wrote:
Sat Oct 16, 2021 7:24 pm

You’re wrong in this case because your whole philosophical position is based on the idea that you don’t really care if your neighbor dies. That’s morally abhorrent and it means your neighbor will not support your resistance.

How insufferable you are, with your puffed up sense of nobility purely based on your refusal to cooperate
Quite an arrogant and ignorant post. You know nothing of Spock's relationship with his neighbors. I'd wager if he saw his neighbor in trouble (house on fire, being attacked, etc.) he would rush into the house or risk a gun fight to save his neighbor. I'd wager you'd call the fire department or police and watch from your window.

If Spock's neighbor is concerned he should get himself vaccinated.

If the vaccine is so damn good, then take your damn vaccine and shut the heck up. If you don't think the vaccine protects you, then why are you so all in on everyone getting it?
Neighbor, of course, as a general term. If you read the New Testament recently, and I somewhat doubt that you have, you would know that “who is my neighbor?” sets off a famous story. You should look into it and then asked “who is my neighbor?” It might even include an undocumented immigrant!

Spock brags about the fact that he takes ivermectin. So clearly he thinks Covid is dangerous enough to seek treatment for it. He’s just too wrapped up in his ideology to see that there’s a more effective treatment, and too uncaring for others to see that his own preferred method of treatment does nothing to help those folks, either. How screwed up you have to be to specifically avoid some thing that works just because people who disagreed with you politically are in favor of it?

As to why do I care?

I think part of it is just the constant bombardment of this horrible illness that I’ve been getting. I’m tired of seeing it. I’m tired of seeing people die from it. I’m tired of arguing with people about it. I’m tired of wearing this strange get up at work just so I don’t come home with it and accidentally bring it to my unvaccinated small child. I have tired of the habit gets brought into the hospital in general, with us now being constantly understaffed, as a nurses were lured to areas where Covid is terrible in search of bigger paychecks. I am tired of not being able to treat my patients as effectively as they deserve.

That’s admittedly selfish of me, but I think at this point it’s a more excusable than the particular kind of selfishness that Spock likes to brag about.

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Re: On "Irish Democracy"

#13 Post by silverscreenselect » Mon Oct 18, 2021 3:34 am

Weyoun wrote:
Sun Oct 17, 2021 6:55 pm
As to why do I care?

I think part of it is just the constant bombardment of this horrible illness that I’ve been getting. I’m tired of seeing it. I’m tired of seeing people die from it.
I think that part of the reason so many people are rather cavalier about this whole thing is that they haven't seen it. Unlike Weyoun, they don't spend their days in emergency rooms. If they see coverage of COVID on TV, it's a few seconds of film clips which look bad but are over and done with in a minute or less. If someone dies, it's a line in an obituary notice. What they have experienced is the discomfort of having to wear a mask from time to time, which to them becomes more immediate than the experience of the disease.

When I was in elementary school, we had a first grade class, a second grade class, etc. So, the people you started attending school with, you stayed in the same classroom with for several years, several hours a day and you become familiar with them like your co-workers at work today. We had a girl in our class (I even remember her name was Cheryl), who had polio. She had a special reclining couch, like a living room recliner, that she sat in all day. She was a very sweet girl; everyone liked her, and she never complained or got upset that I can remember. She's one of the few people I do remember from my elementary school days. But seeing her in that chair like that, day after day, for years had an effect on me and I'm sure on the other people in our class. None of us wanted to wind up like Cheryl. So when they announced that the Sabin oral vaccine would be available in our city, we were as excited about getting the vaccine as if someone had said a free circus was coming to town. I'm sure that I had already gotten the Salk vaccine earlier, but taking the Sabin vaccine made me (and my family) feel safer, like we were doubly protected. They scheduled the Sabin vaccine treatments on Sundays at various strip shopping centers around town (they were closed on Sunday due to blue laws). And we waited in lines for our turn to get the vaccine (the vaccine was placed on sugar cubes, and you just ate a cube). No mandates needed, no one complaining about the evils of vaccines, no mention of whether this was a Democratic or Republican vaccine. We were all just grateful that we wouldn't get polio like Cheryl.
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Re: On "Irish Democracy"

#14 Post by Weyoun » Mon Oct 18, 2021 6:59 am

BTW, BackInTex.

Don’t use the word “arrogant” too carelessly.

You talk the most while knowing the least.

I did not post here for years. Obviously this disease has awaken me from my slumber. When you have someone who has a comfortable life and he sees something that absolutely shakes him to his core, despite having a great deal of experience in that field, you should probably ask yourself, maybe that person knows what he’s talking about?

Having an informed experience does not make me arrogant.

I don’t even quiz anymore. That was a whole raison d’être this board, right? I don’t have the time. I don’t have the energy.

Thanks.
Last edited by Weyoun on Mon Oct 18, 2021 11:48 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: On "Irish Democracy"

#15 Post by Bob Juch » Mon Oct 18, 2021 9:03 am

silverscreenselect wrote:
Mon Oct 18, 2021 3:34 am
Weyoun wrote:
Sun Oct 17, 2021 6:55 pm
As to why do I care?

I think part of it is just the constant bombardment of this horrible illness that I’ve been getting. I’m tired of seeing it. I’m tired of seeing people die from it.
I think that part of the reason so many people are rather cavalier about this whole thing is that they haven't seen it. Unlike Weyoun, they don't spend their days in emergency rooms. If they see coverage of COVID on TV, it's a few seconds of film clips which look bad but are over and done with in a minute or less. If someone dies, it's a line in an obituary notice. What they have experienced is the discomfort of having to wear a mask from time to time, which to them becomes more immediate than the experience of the disease.

When I was in elementary school, we had a first grade class, a second grade class, etc. So, the people you started attending school with, you stayed in the same classroom with for several years, several hours a day and you become familiar with them like your co-workers at work today. We had a girl in our class (I even remember her name was Cheryl), who had polio. She had a special reclining couch, like a living room recliner, that she sat in all day. She was a very sweet girl; everyone liked her, and she never complained or got upset that I can remember. She's one of the few people I do remember from my elementary school days. But seeing her in that chair like that, day after day, for years had an effect on me and I'm sure on the other people in our class. None of us wanted to wind up like Cheryl. So when they announced that the Sabin oral vaccine would be available in our city, we were as excited about getting the vaccine as if someone had said a free circus was coming to town. I'm sure that I had already gotten the Salk vaccine earlier, but taking the Sabin vaccine made me (and my family) feel safer, like we were doubly protected. They scheduled the Sabin vaccine treatments on Sundays at various strip shopping centers around town (they were closed on Sunday due to blue laws). And we waited in lines for our turn to get the vaccine (the vaccine was placed on sugar cubes, and you just ate a cube). No mandates needed, no one complaining about the evils of vaccines, no mention of whether this was a Democratic or Republican vaccine. We were all just grateful that we wouldn't get polio like Cheryl.
My experience with the polio vaccines was similar. We didn't know of anyone who had polio, but my family, friends, and classmates were excited when the Sabin vaccine came out. I got mine at my school.
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