Screaming into the abyss

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Earl the Squirrel
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Screaming into the abyss

#1 Post by Earl the Squirrel » Tue Sep 28, 2021 7:33 pm

https://www.instagram.com/p/CUYMJyiB6f4/

I know it's hopeless at this point, but I would ask everybody who refuses to get vaccinated, or has family or friends that feel the same, to please just read this story. If you're not familiar with Instagram, there is an arrow on the right side of the post that will take you to the next slide.

I love all this "I'm an independent by God American in the land of the free! I take care of myself and my own". Except, you don't. You run to the hospital and take up resources that should be used on people who have been proactive in this mess and just have the bad fortune to have something else go wrong with them. My thoughts? If you're not vaccinated, you don't get admitted. Sorry asshole you had, or rather didn't have, your shot and you blew it.

Please give a shit about the rest of humanity. This isn't about you!

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SportsFan68
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Re: Screaming into the abyss

#2 Post by SportsFan68 » Tue Sep 28, 2021 9:33 pm

I heard something yesterday I never thought I'd hear. A local health care professional said that we should quit admitting non-vaccinated Idaho tourists to our ICU, same logic as this: "If you're not vaccinated, you don't get admitted." She added, "Give them a prescription for morphine and send them away."

I don't think we can do that, but she was deadly serious. I guess the affected Idaho tourists are lucky it's not her decision.

Other locals want to put up a barrier at the border. If you're not vaccinated, you don't come in.
-- In Iroquois society, leaders are encouraged to remember seven generations in the past and consider seven generations in the future when making decisions that affect the people.
-- America would be a better place if leaders would do more long-term thinking. -- Wilma Mankiller

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BackInTex
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Re: Screaming into the abyss

#3 Post by BackInTex » Tue Sep 28, 2021 9:45 pm

All kinds of people take up precious hospital resources due to life choices they’ve made. I’d wager most visits to the emergency room and ICU are due to life long choices.


Should we add you your list of the undeserving?

Anyone who smokes
Alcoholics
Drug addicts. (This will save a ton of precious resources)
Obese people (This will probably save the most)
Gay men with AIDS

In fact, all of the above are disqualified for what they do, not for something they haven’t done.
..what country can preserve it’s liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? let them take arms.
~~ Thomas Jefferson

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SportsFan68
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Re: Screaming into the abyss

#4 Post by SportsFan68 » Tue Sep 28, 2021 9:57 pm

A long while back, a local doctor said he was going to stop accepting smokers. His mind was soon changed, probably by his family. I don't know if he still does, but at that time, his brother was a smoker.

Just outta curiosity, why gay men with AIDS? Non-gay men and women engage in risky behavior that transmits AIDS such as non-monogamous unprotected sex and needle sharing.
-- In Iroquois society, leaders are encouraged to remember seven generations in the past and consider seven generations in the future when making decisions that affect the people.
-- America would be a better place if leaders would do more long-term thinking. -- Wilma Mankiller

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Re: Screaming into the abyss

#5 Post by a1mamacat » Tue Sep 28, 2021 10:09 pm

Earl the Squirrel wrote:
Tue Sep 28, 2021 7:33 pm
https://www.instagram.com/p/CUYMJyiB6f4/

I know it's hopeless at this point, but I would ask everybody who refuses to get vaccinated, or has family or friends that feel the same, to please just read this story. If you're not familiar with Instagram, there is an arrow on the right side of the post that will take you to the next slide.

I love all this "I'm an independent by God American in the land of the free! I take care of myself and my own". Except, you don't. You run to the hospital and take up resources that should be used on people who have been proactive in this mess and just have the bad fortune to have something else go wrong with them. My thoughts? If you're not vaccinated, you don't get admitted. Sorry asshole you had, or rather didn't have, your shot and you blew it.

Please give a shit about the rest of humanity. This isn't about you!
My cousin and I have made a decision that we will no longer visit her sister who has refused to get vaccinated. She says her pastor told them that God sent the virus to remove the un-christians in the world, and her bar band son says that it is a government plot. The province of Alberta is so close to the critical care triage system, and she has a heart condition. We are so angered by her attitude, and sad that we may never see her again.
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BackInTex
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Re: Screaming into the abyss

#6 Post by BackInTex » Tue Sep 28, 2021 10:09 pm

SportsFan68 wrote:
Tue Sep 28, 2021 9:57 pm
A long while back, a local doctor said he was going to stop accepting smokers. His mind was soon changed, probably by his family. I don't know if he still does, but at that time, his brother was a smoker.

Just outta curiosity, why gay men with AIDS? Non-gay men and women engage in risky behavior that transmits AIDS such as non-monogamous unprotected sex and needle sharing.
Needle sharing can be covered by drug addicts. As far as others, ask the blood banks why gay men are deemed ineligible to give blood. Probably something to do with probabilities. Just like really fat people or slim people who don’t exercise. The latter can have heart issues as well. Or vaccinated people who don’t wear a mask or social distance.
..what country can preserve it’s liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? let them take arms.
~~ Thomas Jefferson

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SportsFan68
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Re: Screaming into the abyss

#7 Post by SportsFan68 » Tue Sep 28, 2021 10:15 pm

a1mamacat wrote:
Tue Sep 28, 2021 10:09 pm
Earl the Squirrel wrote:
Tue Sep 28, 2021 7:33 pm
https://www.instagram.com/p/CUYMJyiB6f4/

I know it's hopeless at this point, but I would ask everybody who refuses to get vaccinated, or has family or friends that feel the same, to please just read this story. If you're not familiar with Instagram, there is an arrow on the right side of the post that will take you to the next slide.

I love all this "I'm an independent by God American in the land of the free! I take care of myself and my own". Except, you don't. You run to the hospital and take up resources that should be used on people who have been proactive in this mess and just have the bad fortune to have something else go wrong with them. My thoughts? If you're not vaccinated, you don't get admitted. Sorry asshole you had, or rather didn't have, your shot and you blew it.

Please give a shit about the rest of humanity. This isn't about you!
My cousin and I have made a decision that we will no longer visit her sister who has refused to get vaccinated. She says her pastor told them that God sent the virus to remove the un-christians in the world, and her bar band son says that it is a government plot. The province of Alberta is so close to the critical care triage system, and she has a heart condition. We are so angered by her attitude, and sad that we may never see her again.
MatiasMom will no longer let her mother see the kids because she won't get vaccinated. Very sad, that she may never see her grandchildren again.
-- In Iroquois society, leaders are encouraged to remember seven generations in the past and consider seven generations in the future when making decisions that affect the people.
-- America would be a better place if leaders would do more long-term thinking. -- Wilma Mankiller

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Bob78164
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Re: Screaming into the abyss

#8 Post by Bob78164 » Tue Sep 28, 2021 10:33 pm

BackInTex wrote:
Tue Sep 28, 2021 10:09 pm
SportsFan68 wrote:
Tue Sep 28, 2021 9:57 pm
A long while back, a local doctor said he was going to stop accepting smokers. His mind was soon changed, probably by his family. I don't know if he still does, but at that time, his brother was a smoker.

Just outta curiosity, why gay men with AIDS? Non-gay men and women engage in risky behavior that transmits AIDS such as non-monogamous unprotected sex and needle sharing.
Needle sharing can be covered by drug addicts. As far as others, ask the blood banks why gay men are deemed ineligible to give blood. Probably something to do with probabilities. Just like really fat people or slim people who don’t exercise. The latter can have heart issues as well. Or vaccinated people who don’t wear a mask or social distance.
Gay men are barred from blood donations because of a decision made approximately 35 years ago and never revisited. Most public health professionals will tell you that there is no medical reason to bar them.

The other comparisons you suggest are false equivalences. As far as I'm concerned, there is a decided difference between addictive behavior, which is at least in part outside the control of the person involved, and refusal to take a vaccine. Not least because under ordinary circumstances most of this addictive behavior does not harm other people, whereas the refusal to take a vaccine does.

For now, I'll settle for health plans or employers charging a monthly surcharge to the unvaccinated, if they elect not to fire them outright. But I'll have a lot of sympathy for decisions to take vaccine status into account when rationing care becomes necessary. --Bob
"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear." Thomas Jefferson

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Re: Screaming into the abyss

#9 Post by Earl the Squirrel » Tue Sep 28, 2021 10:42 pm

BackInTex wrote:
Tue Sep 28, 2021 9:45 pm
All kinds of people take up precious hospital resources due to life choices they’ve made. I’d wager most visits to the emergency room and ICU are due to life long choices.


Should we add you your list of the undeserving?

Anyone who smokes
Alcoholics
Drug addicts. (This will save a ton of precious resources)
Obese people (This will probably save the most)
Gay men with AIDS

In fact, all of the above are disqualified for what they do, not for something they haven’t done.
Did you even read the story I linked to?

I'm not one of those Googlers and "researchers" that come up with a bunch of lists and statistics, but I'd wager most ER visits are due to accidents of some kind. But in answer to your question:

1. I don't have the numbers (I'm sure SSS or one of the Bobs will come to my rescue here), but I don't think the percentage of people on your list end up in in extended hospital care is nearly as high as those who have COVID. It's my understanding that the vast majority of those with severe symptoms require hospitalization and that the vast majority of those people have not been vaccinated. Let's go on the low side and say that 75% of those unvaccinated who get COVID end up in the hospital. Do 75% of all smokers end up in the hospital? Of alcoholics, druggies, fat people? I'll "maybe" give you AIDs, but many people contract that through absolutely NO fault of their own. Check out the story of Joey DiPaolo, Ryan White, et al.

2. If any of the the above groups you mentioned could drastically change their odds by getting a simple vaccination, don't you think they'd do it? I doubt that many of those people haven't tried at least something to change their circumstances (rehab, diet, prescribed medications). A simple two or three step jab at no cost to them? Sign 'em up, the line forms around the block!

The unvaxxed willfully put others in danger, but expect help if they themselves end up in said danger.

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Re: Screaming into the abyss

#10 Post by silverscreenselect » Tue Sep 28, 2021 11:07 pm

Bob78164 wrote:
Tue Sep 28, 2021 10:33 pm
For now, I'll settle for health plans or employers charging a monthly surcharge to the unvaccinated, if they elect not to fire them outright.
Smokers already pay a surcharge on most group health policies. I remember about 30 years ago one of my supervisors told me that he would always find out during the interview process whether a candidate smoked or not and he would never hire a smoker. His reasoning as he explained it to me was that if someone isn't smart enough to know they shouldn't smoke, I don't want them working for me.
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Re: Screaming into the abyss

#11 Post by triviawayne » Wed Sep 29, 2021 5:30 am

silverscreenselect wrote:
Tue Sep 28, 2021 11:07 pm
Bob78164 wrote:
Tue Sep 28, 2021 10:33 pm
For now, I'll settle for health plans or employers charging a monthly surcharge to the unvaccinated, if they elect not to fire them outright.
Smokers already pay a surcharge on most group health policies. I remember about 30 years ago one of my supervisors told me that he would always find out during the interview process whether a candidate smoked or not and he would never hire a smoker. His reasoning as he explained it to me was that if someone isn't smart enough to know they shouldn't smoke, I don't want them working for me.
Probably missed out on some great employees. If someone smokes, or is an alcoholic, or does drugs, it's not necessarily about a lack of intelligence, but an overpowering addiction the person can't control.

If that supervisor isn't smart enough to know that, I wouldn't want to work for them.

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Re: Screaming into the abyss

#12 Post by wbtravis007 » Wed Sep 29, 2021 9:50 am

BackInTex wrote:
Tue Sep 28, 2021 10:09 pm
SportsFan68 wrote:
Tue Sep 28, 2021 9:57 pm
A long while back, a local doctor said he was going to stop accepting smokers. His mind was soon changed, probably by his family. I don't know if he still does, but at that time, his brother was a smoker.

Just outta curiosity, why gay men with AIDS? Non-gay men and women engage in risky behavior that transmits AIDS such as non-monogamous unprotected sex and needle sharing.
Needle sharing can be covered by drug addicts. As far as others, ask the blood banks why gay men are deemed ineligible to give blood. Probably something to do with probabilities. Just like really fat people or slim people who don’t exercise. The latter can have heart issues as well. Or vaccinated people who don’t wear a mask or social distance.
Do you still shun your gay male relative?

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Re: Screaming into the abyss

#13 Post by BackInTex » Wed Sep 29, 2021 12:15 pm

wbtravis007 wrote:
Wed Sep 29, 2021 9:50 am
BackInTex wrote:
Tue Sep 28, 2021 10:09 pm
SportsFan68 wrote:
Tue Sep 28, 2021 9:57 pm
A long while back, a local doctor said he was going to stop accepting smokers. His mind was soon changed, probably by his family. I don't know if he still does, but at that time, his brother was a smoker.

Just outta curiosity, why gay men with AIDS? Non-gay men and women engage in risky behavior that transmits AIDS such as non-monogamous unprotected sex and needle sharing.
Needle sharing can be covered by drug addicts. As far as others, ask the blood banks why gay men are deemed ineligible to give blood. Probably something to do with probabilities. Just like really fat people or slim people who don’t exercise. The latter can have heart issues as well. Or vaccinated people who don’t wear a mask or social distance.
Do you still shun your gay male relative?
You need to be more specific. I have several.
..what country can preserve it’s liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? let them take arms.
~~ Thomas Jefferson

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Re: Screaming into the abyss

#14 Post by wbtravis007 » Wed Sep 29, 2021 12:40 pm

BackInTex wrote:
Wed Sep 29, 2021 12:15 pm
wbtravis007 wrote:
Wed Sep 29, 2021 9:50 am
BackInTex wrote:
Tue Sep 28, 2021 10:09 pm


Needle sharing can be covered by drug addicts. As far as others, ask the blood banks why gay men are deemed ineligible to give blood. Probably something to do with probabilities. Just like really fat people or slim people who don’t exercise. The latter can have heart issues as well. Or vaccinated people who don’t wear a mask or social distance.
Do you still shun your gay male relative?
You need to be more specific. I have several.
No, that's ok. I'm not that curious about it. You're saying that you still shun at least one (but not all). That's specific enough.

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Re: Screaming into the abyss

#15 Post by Bob78164 » Wed Sep 29, 2021 1:08 pm

wbtravis007 wrote:
Wed Sep 29, 2021 12:40 pm
BackInTex wrote:
Wed Sep 29, 2021 12:15 pm
wbtravis007 wrote:
Wed Sep 29, 2021 9:50 am
Do you still shun your gay male relative?
You need to be more specific. I have several.
No, that's ok. I'm not that curious about it. You're saying that you still shun at least one (but not all). That's specific enough.
Not quite. What you actually care about is whether BiT is shunning a relative BECAUSE he is gay, rather than shunning him for some reason unrelated to his sexual orientation. --Bob
"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear." Thomas Jefferson

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Re: Screaming into the abyss

#16 Post by wbtravis007 » Wed Sep 29, 2021 1:30 pm

Bob78164 wrote:
Wed Sep 29, 2021 1:08 pm
wbtravis007 wrote:
Wed Sep 29, 2021 12:40 pm
BackInTex wrote:
Wed Sep 29, 2021 12:15 pm
You need to be more specific. I have several.
No, that's ok. I'm not that curious about it. You're saying that you still shun at least one (but not all). That's specific enough.
Not quite. What you actually care about is whether BiT is shunning a relative BECAUSE he is gay, rather than shunning him for some reason unrelated to his sexual orientation. --Bob
You're seriously suggesting that you know more about what I "actually care about" than I do?

Good grief.

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Re: Screaming into the abyss

#17 Post by BackInTex » Wed Sep 29, 2021 1:35 pm

wbtravis007 wrote:
Wed Sep 29, 2021 1:30 pm
Bob78164 wrote:
Wed Sep 29, 2021 1:08 pm
wbtravis007 wrote:
Wed Sep 29, 2021 12:40 pm
No, that's ok. I'm not that curious about it. You're saying that you still shun at least one (but not all). That's specific enough.
Not quite. What you actually care about is whether BiT is shunning a relative BECAUSE he is gay, rather than shunning him for some reason unrelated to his sexual orientation. --Bob
You're seriously suggesting that you know more about what I "actually care about" than I do?

Good grief.
You'll have to excuse Bob for assuming you're a reasonable person.
..what country can preserve it’s liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? let them take arms.
~~ Thomas Jefferson

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Re: Screaming into the abyss

#18 Post by wbtravis007 » Wed Sep 29, 2021 1:43 pm

BackInTex wrote:
Wed Sep 29, 2021 1:35 pm
wbtravis007 wrote:
Wed Sep 29, 2021 1:30 pm
Bob78164 wrote:
Wed Sep 29, 2021 1:08 pm
Not quite. What you actually care about is whether BiT is shunning a relative BECAUSE he is gay, rather than shunning him for some reason unrelated to his sexual orientation. --Bob
You're seriously suggesting that you know more about what I "actually care about" than I do?

Good grief.
You'll have to excuse Bob for assuming you're a reasonable person.
Did I hurt your feelings by not being all that interested, and being satisfied with your answer?

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Re: Screaming into the abyss

#19 Post by BackInTex » Wed Sep 29, 2021 3:09 pm

wbtravis007 wrote:
Wed Sep 29, 2021 1:43 pm
BackInTex wrote:
Wed Sep 29, 2021 1:35 pm
wbtravis007 wrote:
Wed Sep 29, 2021 1:30 pm


You're seriously suggesting that you know more about what I "actually care about" than I do?

Good grief.
You'll have to excuse Bob for assuming you're a reasonable person.
Did I hurt your feelings by not being all that interested, and being satisfied with your answer?
Why would my feelings be hurt if you are satisfied with my answer? As far as you not being all that interested, you started the conversation, so I'm thinking you are.
..what country can preserve it’s liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? let them take arms.
~~ Thomas Jefferson

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Re: Screaming into the abyss

#20 Post by tlynn78 » Wed Sep 29, 2021 3:22 pm

BackInTex wrote:
Wed Sep 29, 2021 3:09 pm
wbtravis007 wrote:
Wed Sep 29, 2021 1:43 pm
BackInTex wrote:
Wed Sep 29, 2021 1:35 pm


You'll have to excuse Bob for assuming you're a reasonable person.
Did I hurt your feelings by not being all that interested, and being satisfied with your answer?
Why would my feelings be hurt if you are satisfied with my answer? As far as you not being all that interested, you started the conversation, so I'm thinking you are.
Someone needs attention.
To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead. -Thomas Paine

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Re: Screaming into the abyss

#21 Post by a1mamacat » Wed Sep 29, 2021 5:16 pm

tlynn78 wrote:
Wed Sep 29, 2021 3:22 pm
BackInTex wrote:
Wed Sep 29, 2021 3:09 pm
wbtravis007 wrote:
Wed Sep 29, 2021 1:43 pm


Did I hurt your feelings by not being all that interested, and being satisfied with your answer?
Why would my feelings be hurt if you are satisfied with my answer? As far as you not being all that interested, you started the conversation, so I'm thinking you are.
Someone needs attention.
How predictable :lol:
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Re: Screaming into the abyss

#22 Post by tlynn78 » Wed Sep 29, 2021 5:24 pm

a1mamacat wrote:
Wed Sep 29, 2021 5:16 pm
tlynn78 wrote:
Wed Sep 29, 2021 3:22 pm
BackInTex wrote:
Wed Sep 29, 2021 3:09 pm


Why would my feelings be hurt if you are satisfied with my answer? As far as you not being all that interested, you started the conversation, so I'm thinking you are.
Someone needs attention.
How predictable :lol:
Right?!
To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead. -Thomas Paine

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Re: Screaming into the abyss

#23 Post by wbtravis007 » Wed Sep 29, 2021 6:50 pm

BackInTex wrote:
Wed Sep 29, 2021 3:09 pm
wbtravis007 wrote:
Wed Sep 29, 2021 1:43 pm
BackInTex wrote:
Wed Sep 29, 2021 1:35 pm


You'll have to excuse Bob for assuming you're a reasonable person.
Did I hurt your feelings by not being all that interested, and being satisfied with your answer?
Why would my feelings be hurt if you are satisfied with my answer? As far as you not being all that interested, you started the conversation, so I'm thinking you are.

ICM!

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Re: Screaming into the abyss

#24 Post by Spock » Wed Sep 29, 2021 8:22 pm

BackInTex wrote:
Tue Sep 28, 2021 9:45 pm
All kinds of people take up precious hospital resources due to life choices they’ve made. I’d wager most visits to the emergency room and ICU are due to life long choices.


Should we add you your list of the undeserving?

Anyone who smokes
Alcoholics
Drug addicts. (This will save a ton of precious resources)
Obese people (This will probably save the most)
Gay men with AIDS

In fact, all of the above are disqualified for what they do, not for something they haven’t done.
This is going to be an interesting world if health professionals can withhold care based on activities they don't like.

BiT forgot a doozy. Drunk driver wipes out a family of four and sustains injuries. I guess, in this brave new world we are rocketing into-it will be OK to not treat the driver.

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Re: Screaming into the abyss

#25 Post by BackInTex » Wed Sep 29, 2021 8:31 pm

Spock wrote:
Wed Sep 29, 2021 8:22 pm
[quote=BackInTex post_id=580677 time=<a href="tel:1632887159">1632887159</a> user_id=28]
All kinds of people take up precious hospital resources due to life choices they’ve made. I’d wager most visits to the emergency room and ICU are due to life long choices.


Should we add you your list of the undeserving?

Anyone who smokes
Alcoholics
Drug addicts. (This will save a ton of precious resources)
Obese people (This will probably save the most)
Gay men with AIDS

In fact, all of the above are disqualified for what they do, not for something they haven’t done.
This is going to be an interesting world if health professionals can withhold care based on activities they don't like.

BiT forgot a doozy. Drunk driver wipes out a family of four and sustains injuries. I guess, in this brave new world we are rocketing into-it will be OK to not treat the driver.
[/quote]

Oh, there are many others. Unsuccessful suicide attempts. Gang bangers who get shot.
..what country can preserve it’s liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? let them take arms.
~~ Thomas Jefferson

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