New Texas Abortion Law

The forum for general posting. Come join the madness. :)
Message
Author
User avatar
kroxquo
Posts: 2479
Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2008 12:24 pm
Location: On the Road to Kingdom Come
Contact:

New Texas Abortion Law

#1 Post by kroxquo » Wed Sep 01, 2021 8:17 am

As I understand it, the law states that anyone can sue any person in Texas who performs an abortion, helps perform an abortion, assists someone to get an abortion, or contemplates helping someone to get an abortion after a fetal heartbeat has been detected, usually about at six weeks, before most women even realize they are pregnant. The plaintiff in the suit does not even have to be a resident of Texas. In other words, if my daughter in Texas gives her friend a ride to an abortion clinic for a post heart beat abortion, some person she has never met in say, Nebraska, could sue her for upwards of $10,000.

Putting aside for the moment the arguments between pro-choice and pro-life, some questions occur to me.

How would a complete stranger have any legal basis for filing a lawsuit? Doesn't a plaintiff have to show damages? If I wanted to file such a suit, what damages have I suffered as a result of someone else I don't know having an abortion?

Maybe I am too much of a cynic, but doesn't this set up a huge market for extortion (pay me or I'll file suit) and abortion mercenaries (suing everyone they can think of hoping for a pay out)?

Do pro-life advocates plan to increase funding for support programs for at risk children?
You live and learn. Or at least you live. - Douglas Adams

User avatar
BackInTex
Posts: 11322
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 12:43 pm
Location: In Texas of course!

Re: New Texas Abortion Law

#2 Post by BackInTex » Wed Sep 01, 2021 8:24 am

I'm not aware of the details of the new law, but if as you stated it is flawed, and I agree with you, it makes no sense. And I'm sure the first SC challenge will be upheld. At lease it should be.

To me, the only people that would have any standing would be the biological father, then perhaps both sets of grandparents and Bob Juch who no doubt would be related to the baby somehow. And even then, suing someone who only assists such as giving a ride or even perhaps giving directions to the clinic seems a bit over the top.
..what country can preserve it’s liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? let them take arms.
~~ Thomas Jefferson

User avatar
earendel
Posts: 13214
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2007 5:25 am
Location: mired in the bureaucracy

Re: New Texas Abortion Law

#3 Post by earendel » Wed Sep 01, 2021 8:32 am

BackInTex wrote:
Wed Sep 01, 2021 8:24 am
I'm not aware of the details of the new law, but if as you stated it is flawed, and I agree with you, it makes no sense. And I'm sure the first SC challenge will be upheld. At lease it should be.

To me, the only people that would have any standing would be the biological father, then perhaps both sets of grandparents and Bob Juch who no doubt would be related to the baby somehow. And even then, suing someone who only assists such as giving a ride or even perhaps giving directions to the clinic seems a bit over the top.
Well, the USSC disagrees with you. They declined to act on an emergency petition, so the law is now in effect.
"Elen sila lumenn omentielvo...A star shines on the hour of our meeting."

User avatar
silverscreenselect
Posts: 19412
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 11:21 pm
Contact:

Re: New Texas Abortion Law

#4 Post by silverscreenselect » Wed Sep 01, 2021 8:35 am

earendel wrote:
Wed Sep 01, 2021 8:32 am
BackInTex wrote:
Wed Sep 01, 2021 8:24 am
I'm not aware of the details of the new law, but if as you stated it is flawed, and I agree with you, it makes no sense. And I'm sure the first SC challenge will be upheld. At lease it should be.

To me, the only people that would have any standing would be the biological father, then perhaps both sets of grandparents and Bob Juch who no doubt would be related to the baby somehow. And even then, suing someone who only assists such as giving a ride or even perhaps giving directions to the clinic seems a bit over the top.
Well, the USSC disagrees with you. They declined to act on an emergency petition, so the law is now in effect.
The Supreme Court has other abortion challenges before it this term, so it's going to offer some additional guidance as to what it's planning to allow. An emergency petition in any case ahead of any fact finding or argument in front of a lower court is rare. I'm sure there will be lower court challenges asking for injunctive relief that may be granted after some pleadings are filed.
Check out our website: http://www.silverscreenvideos.com

User avatar
BackInTex
Posts: 11322
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 12:43 pm
Location: In Texas of course!

Re: New Texas Abortion Law

#5 Post by BackInTex » Wed Sep 01, 2021 8:43 am

I just read through the section of the new law that seems to allow anyone to sue anyone who facilitates an illegal (as defined earlier in the law) abortion.

It is pretty bizarre. It allows for the plaintiff to be awarded legal fees but specifically disallows such award for a successful defense.

Even as someone who is pro-life I find the entirety of the law over reaching and unreasonable.
..what country can preserve it’s liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? let them take arms.
~~ Thomas Jefferson

User avatar
bazodee
Posts: 896
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2007 10:23 am
Location: Atlanta, Georgia

Re: New Texas Abortion Law

#6 Post by bazodee » Wed Sep 01, 2021 10:35 am

Nor have we started talking about the medical privacy issues at play here. Just how would that person from Nebraska know what happened at Planned Parenthood? Those records are confidential.

User avatar
BackInTex
Posts: 11322
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 12:43 pm
Location: In Texas of course!

Re: New Texas Abortion Law

#7 Post by BackInTex » Wed Sep 01, 2021 10:41 am

bazodee wrote:
Wed Sep 01, 2021 10:35 am
Nor have we started talking about the medical privacy issues at play here. Just how would that person from Nebraska know what happened at Planned Parenthood? Those records are confidential.
Perhaps the person assisting in the transportation brags about it on a message bored.
..what country can preserve it’s liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? let them take arms.
~~ Thomas Jefferson

User avatar
kroxquo
Posts: 2479
Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2008 12:24 pm
Location: On the Road to Kingdom Come
Contact:

Re: New Texas Abortion Law

#8 Post by kroxquo » Wed Sep 01, 2021 10:54 am

BackInTex wrote:
Wed Sep 01, 2021 10:41 am
bazodee wrote:
Wed Sep 01, 2021 10:35 am
Nor have we started talking about the medical privacy issues at play here. Just how would that person from Nebraska know what happened at Planned Parenthood? Those records are confidential.
Perhaps the person assisting in the transportation brags about it on a message bored.
I'm not sure if you were implying that was what I was doing in my initial post, and if I am reading too much into your statement, I apologize. To the best of my knowledge, no one I know in Texas has facilitated an abortion, illegal or not.
You live and learn. Or at least you live. - Douglas Adams

User avatar
BackInTex
Posts: 11322
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 12:43 pm
Location: In Texas of course!

Re: New Texas Abortion Law

#9 Post by BackInTex » Wed Sep 01, 2021 11:01 am

kroxquo wrote:
Wed Sep 01, 2021 10:54 am
BackInTex wrote:
Wed Sep 01, 2021 10:41 am
bazodee wrote:
Wed Sep 01, 2021 10:35 am
Nor have we started talking about the medical privacy issues at play here. Just how would that person from Nebraska know what happened at Planned Parenthood? Those records are confidential.
Perhaps the person assisting in the transportation brags about it on a message bored.
I'm not sure if you were implying that was what I was doing in my initial post, and if I am reading too much into your statement, I apologize. To the best of my knowledge, no one I know in Texas has facilitated an abortion, illegal or not.
Not implying anything about you or your posts. Just referring to something said a long time ago on a bored far, far away.
..what country can preserve it’s liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? let them take arms.
~~ Thomas Jefferson

User avatar
silverscreenselect
Posts: 19412
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 11:21 pm
Contact:

Re: New Texas Abortion Law

#10 Post by silverscreenselect » Wed Sep 01, 2021 11:58 am

BackInTex wrote:
Wed Sep 01, 2021 10:41 am
bazodee wrote:
Wed Sep 01, 2021 10:35 am
Nor have we started talking about the medical privacy issues at play here. Just how would that person from Nebraska know what happened at Planned Parenthood? Those records are confidential.
Perhaps the person assisting in the transportation brags about it on a message bored.
I think the statute of limitations has run on that particular abortion.
Check out our website: http://www.silverscreenvideos.com

User avatar
Ritterskoop
Posts: 5496
Joined: Thu Oct 11, 2007 10:16 pm
Location: Charlotte, NC

Re: New Texas Abortion Law

#11 Post by Ritterskoop » Wed Sep 01, 2021 1:41 pm

I read that this law was written in such a way that it is nearly impossible for anyone to file suit against it, because it does not name a specific person in Texas who would enforce it (like an Attorney General or a head of a specific department), so there is no specific person against whom you would file suit (if you are a provider, or someone who wanted to challenge the law).
If you fail to pilot your own ship, don't be surprised at what inappropriate port you find yourself docked. - Tom Robbins
--------
At the moment of commitment, the universe conspires to assist you. - attributed to Johann Wolfgang von Goethe.

User avatar
a1mamacat
Posts: 6667
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 6:02 pm
Location: Great White North

Re: New Texas Abortion Law

#12 Post by a1mamacat » Wed Sep 01, 2021 7:09 pm

I guess all the anti-Vaxxers will now direct their “my body my choice” rage against this infringement on women’s autonomy?
Lover of Soft Animals and Fine Art
1st annual international BBBL Champeeeeen!

Spock
Posts: 3455
Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2007 8:01 pm

Re: New Texas Abortion Law

#13 Post by Spock » Wed Sep 01, 2021 8:24 pm

a1mamacat wrote:
Wed Sep 01, 2021 7:09 pm
I guess all the anti-Vaxxers will now direct their “my body my choice” rage against this infringement on women’s autonomy?
I think "Anti-Vaxxer" is a poor choice of words to apply to most of the people not taking the Covid vaccine.

I am vaccinated against many things-including some that I doubt you have been vaccinated against.

For example, I have been vaccinated against Yellow Fever and I am working through the Shingles shots. ( 2 shots-I think?) If you aren't vaxxed against Yellow Fever-why not? Are you Anti-Vaxx?

Per Covid-At this point, I am choosing not to get vaccinated against a disease that I already have had, especially when many studies (namely the Israeli one) show that natural immunity is better than vaxxed immunity.

Plus obviously. the vaxx immunity dropped off far more rapidly than anyone thought initially-hence the boosters-3? 5? 10?

I will trust my natural immunity at this point.

I have also described 2X Covid infections as (Hat tip to Sherlock Holmes) as the dog that hasn't barked. If the hospitals start to fill up with 2X Covids-I might reconsider getting the shot and believe you me-the media will let us know about that.

User avatar
silverscreenselect
Posts: 19412
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 11:21 pm
Contact:

Re: New Texas Abortion Law

#14 Post by silverscreenselect » Wed Sep 01, 2021 9:16 pm

Spock wrote:
Wed Sep 01, 2021 8:24 pm
Per Covid-At this point, I am choosing not to get vaccinated against a disease that I already have had, especially when many studies (namely the Israeli one) show that natural immunity is better than vaxxed immunity.

I have also described 2X Covid infections as (Hat tip to Sherlock Holmes) as the dog that hasn't barked. If the hospitals start to fill up with 2X Covids-I might reconsider getting the shot and believe you me-the media will let us know about that.
And of course, politics had nothing to do with this.

And again, your logic is flawed. The question isn't whether natural immunity is better than vaccine immunity but whether the combination of the two is better than natural immunity. Using that logic, for any risk you face, you find the single most effective method of reducing the risk and ignore all others that could be used in combination. A similar analogy would be removing the air bags from your car because you wear your seat belt and the air bag might injure you. As many people have pointed out, there are a number of people who had COVID previously and didn't know it (or chose not to report it), which skews any results that come out now. As far as vaccine effectiveness dropping off, we're facing a variant now that wasn't around when the vaccines were first developed and tested.
Check out our website: http://www.silverscreenvideos.com

User avatar
Bob Juch
Posts: 24203
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 11:58 am
Location: Oro Valley, Arizona
Contact:

Re: New Texas Abortion Law

#15 Post by Bob Juch » Wed Sep 01, 2021 10:23 pm

BackInTex wrote:
Wed Sep 01, 2021 8:43 am
I just read through the section of the new law that seems to allow anyone to sue anyone who facilitates an illegal (as defined earlier in the law) abortion.

It is pretty bizarre. It allows for the plaintiff to be awarded legal fees but specifically disallows such award for a successful defense.

Even as someone who is pro-life I find the entirety of the law over reaching and unreasonable.
Since you're pro-choice on vaccines and masks, why aren't you pro-choice on abortions?
I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I needed to be.
- Douglas Adams (1952 - 2001)

Si fractum non sit, noli id reficere.

Teach a child to be polite and courteous in the home and, when he grows up, he'll never be able to drive in New Jersey.

User avatar
BackInTex
Posts: 11322
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 12:43 pm
Location: In Texas of course!

Re: New Texas Abortion Law

#16 Post by BackInTex » Thu Sep 02, 2021 5:53 am

Bob Juch wrote:
Wed Sep 01, 2021 10:23 pm
[quote=BackInTex post_id=580119 time=<a href="tel:1630507385">1630507385</a> user_id=28]
I just read through the section of the new law that seems to allow anyone to sue anyone who facilitates an illegal (as defined earlier in the law) abortion.

It is pretty bizarre. It allows for the plaintiff to be awarded legal fees but specifically disallows such award for a successful defense.

Even as someone who is pro-life I find the entirety of the law over reaching and unreasonable.
Since you're pro-choice on vaccines and masks, why aren't you pro-choice on abortions?
[/quote]

Implying wearing a mask and an abortion are even remotely comparable actions is probably the dumbest thing on the internet today. You win. But please look both ways when crossing the street when going to collect your prize.
..what country can preserve it’s liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? let them take arms.
~~ Thomas Jefferson

User avatar
tlynn78
Posts: 7262
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2007 9:31 am
Location: Montana

Re: New Texas Abortion Law

#17 Post by tlynn78 » Thu Sep 02, 2021 9:45 am

Bob Juch wrote:
Wed Sep 01, 2021 10:23 pm
BackInTex wrote:
Wed Sep 01, 2021 8:43 am
I just read through the section of the new law that seems to allow anyone to sue anyone who facilitates an illegal (as defined earlier in the law) abortion.

It is pretty bizarre. It allows for the plaintiff to be awarded legal fees but specifically disallows such award for a successful defense.

Even as someone who is pro-life I find the entirety of the law over reaching and unreasonable.
Since you're pro-choice on vaccines and masks, why aren't you pro-choice on abortions?
Does that level of stupid actually burn?
To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead. -Thomas Paine

User avatar
Bob Juch
Posts: 24203
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 11:58 am
Location: Oro Valley, Arizona
Contact:

Re: New Texas Abortion Law

#18 Post by Bob Juch » Thu Sep 02, 2021 10:48 am

tlynn78 wrote:
Thu Sep 02, 2021 9:45 am
Bob Juch wrote:
Wed Sep 01, 2021 10:23 pm
BackInTex wrote:
Wed Sep 01, 2021 8:43 am
I just read through the section of the new law that seems to allow anyone to sue anyone who facilitates an illegal (as defined earlier in the law) abortion.

It is pretty bizarre. It allows for the plaintiff to be awarded legal fees but specifically disallows such award for a successful defense.

Even as someone who is pro-life I find the entirety of the law over reaching and unreasonable.
Since you're pro-choice on vaccines and masks, why aren't you pro-choice on abortions?
Does that level of stupid actually burn?
Do you or do you not think that people should have control over their bodies?
I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I needed to be.
- Douglas Adams (1952 - 2001)

Si fractum non sit, noli id reficere.

Teach a child to be polite and courteous in the home and, when he grows up, he'll never be able to drive in New Jersey.

User avatar
tlynn78
Posts: 7262
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2007 9:31 am
Location: Montana

Re: New Texas Abortion Law

#19 Post by tlynn78 » Thu Sep 02, 2021 11:06 am

Bob Juch wrote:
Thu Sep 02, 2021 10:48 am
tlynn78 wrote:
Thu Sep 02, 2021 9:45 am
Bob Juch wrote:
Wed Sep 01, 2021 10:23 pm


Since you're pro-choice on vaccines and masks, why aren't you pro-choice on abortions?
Does that level of stupid actually burn?
Do you or do you not think that people should have control over their bodies?
To the extent that it doesn't literally kill another human being 100% of the time, yes.
To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead. -Thomas Paine

User avatar
Bob Juch
Posts: 24203
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 11:58 am
Location: Oro Valley, Arizona
Contact:

Re: New Texas Abortion Law

#20 Post by Bob Juch » Thu Sep 02, 2021 11:44 am

tlynn78 wrote:
Thu Sep 02, 2021 11:06 am
Bob Juch wrote:
Thu Sep 02, 2021 10:48 am
tlynn78 wrote:
Thu Sep 02, 2021 9:45 am


Does that level of stupid actually burn?
Do you or do you not think that people should have control over their bodies?
To the extent that it doesn't literally kill another human being 100% of the time, yes.
I don't consider something the size of a pomegranate seed a human being.
I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I needed to be.
- Douglas Adams (1952 - 2001)

Si fractum non sit, noli id reficere.

Teach a child to be polite and courteous in the home and, when he grows up, he'll never be able to drive in New Jersey.

User avatar
Beebs52
Queen of Wack
Posts: 11869
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 11:38 am
Location: Location.Location.Location

Re: New Texas Abortion Law

#21 Post by Beebs52 » Thu Sep 02, 2021 11:47 am

Bob Juch wrote:
Thu Sep 02, 2021 11:44 am
tlynn78 wrote:
Thu Sep 02, 2021 11:06 am
Bob Juch wrote:
Thu Sep 02, 2021 10:48 am

Do you or do you not think that people should have control over their bodies?
To the extent that it doesn't literally kill another human being 100% of the time, yes.
I don't consider something the size of a pomegranate seed a human being.
Hmm
Well, then

User avatar
Bob78164
Bored Moderator
Posts: 20026
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 12:02 pm
Location: By the phone

Re: New Texas Abortion Law

#22 Post by Bob78164 » Thu Sep 02, 2021 12:00 pm

Beebs52 wrote:
Thu Sep 02, 2021 11:47 am
Bob Juch wrote:
Thu Sep 02, 2021 11:44 am
tlynn78 wrote:
Thu Sep 02, 2021 11:06 am
To the extent that it doesn't literally kill another human being 100% of the time, yes.
I don't consider something the size of a pomegranate seed a human being.
Hmm
You're trolling, Bob. Obviously BiT does, which answers your original question to him. --Bob
"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear." Thomas Jefferson

User avatar
tlynn78
Posts: 7262
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2007 9:31 am
Location: Montana

Re: New Texas Abortion Law

#23 Post by tlynn78 » Thu Sep 02, 2021 12:01 pm

Bob Juch wrote:
Thu Sep 02, 2021 11:44 am
tlynn78 wrote:
Thu Sep 02, 2021 11:06 am
Bob Juch wrote:
Thu Sep 02, 2021 10:48 am

Do you or do you not think that people should have control over their bodies?
To the extent that it doesn't literally kill another human being 100% of the time, yes.
I don't consider something the size of a pomegranate seed a human being.
I pity you
To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead. -Thomas Paine

User avatar
Beebs52
Queen of Wack
Posts: 11869
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 11:38 am
Location: Location.Location.Location

Re: New Texas Abortion Law

#24 Post by Beebs52 » Thu Sep 02, 2021 12:12 pm

https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-life ... t-20045302

Apparently my pomegranate sized neural tube captured some shit to surprise me years later.
Well, then

User avatar
BackInTex
Posts: 11322
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 12:43 pm
Location: In Texas of course!

Re: New Texas Abortion Law

#25 Post by BackInTex » Thu Sep 02, 2021 12:28 pm

Bob Juch wrote:
Thu Sep 02, 2021 11:44 am
tlynn78 wrote:
Thu Sep 02, 2021 11:06 am
Bob Juch wrote:
Thu Sep 02, 2021 10:48 am

Do you or do you not think that people should have control over their bodies?
To the extent that it doesn't literally kill another human being 100% of the time, yes.
I don't consider something the size of a pomegranate seed a human being.
At what point do you consider an unborn child a human being?
..what country can preserve it’s liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? let them take arms.
~~ Thomas Jefferson

Post Reply