Now we know who shot unarmed white woman - a black officer

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Re: Now we know who shot unarmed white woman - a black officer

#26 Post by Bob78164 » Sat Aug 28, 2021 1:09 am

BackInTex wrote:
Fri Aug 27, 2021 10:29 pm
silverscreenselect wrote:
Fri Aug 27, 2021 9:51 pm
BackInTex wrote:
Fri Aug 27, 2021 9:27 pm
My accurate and honest assessment making you uncomfortable is not racism on my part.
Did you actually see any video of the shooting before you made your accurate and honest assessment?
Yes

What about you, before making your comment?
Remind me again of your position on Stand Your Ground laws . . . . --Bob
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Re: Now we know who shot unarmed white woman - a black officer

#27 Post by kroxquo » Sat Aug 28, 2021 4:58 am

BackInTex wrote:
Fri Aug 27, 2021 10:29 pm
silverscreenselect wrote:
Fri Aug 27, 2021 9:51 pm
BackInTex wrote:
Fri Aug 27, 2021 9:27 pm
My accurate and honest assessment making you uncomfortable is not racism on my part.
Did you actually see any video of the shooting before you made your accurate and honest assessment?
Yes

What about you, before making your comment?
The video is pretty clear. She was breaking through a barricade with a large crowd of people behind her clearly yelling, "Bust it down!" The threat was not just that she would get through but that an entire mob would get throughh. In the words of Andy Dufresne, "How could you be so obtuse? Is it deliberate?"
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Re: Now we know who shot unarmed white woman - a black officer

#28 Post by BackInTex » Sat Aug 28, 2021 8:57 am

Prior to the shooting there were several guards outside the door, between the door and the crowd. They were neither attacked or harmed. There were several tactical officer behind the crowd. They were neither attacked or harmed. No doubt had the crowd been allowed through the door into the hallway any officers inside would have been treated equally.
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Re: Now we know who shot unarmed white woman - a black officer

#29 Post by Bob Juch » Sat Aug 28, 2021 9:54 am

BackInTex wrote:
Sat Aug 28, 2021 8:57 am
Prior to the shooting there were several guards outside the door, between the door and the crowd. They were neither attacked or harmed. There were several tactical officer behind the crowd. They were neither attacked or harmed. No doubt had the crowd been allowed through the door into the hallway any officers inside would have been treated equally.
You know this how? Don't try to gaslight us.
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Re: Now we know who shot unarmed white woman - a black officer

#30 Post by Estonut » Sat Aug 28, 2021 10:06 am

Bob Juch wrote:
Sat Aug 28, 2021 9:54 am
BackInTex wrote:
Sat Aug 28, 2021 8:57 am
Prior to the shooting there were several guards outside the door, between the door and the crowd. They were neither attacked or harmed. There were several tactical officer behind the crowd. They were neither attacked or harmed. No doubt had the crowd been allowed through the door into the hallway any officers inside would have been treated equally.
You know this how? Don't try to gaslight us.
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Re: Now we know who shot unarmed white woman - a black officer

#31 Post by silverscreenselect » Sat Aug 28, 2021 11:19 am

BackInTex wrote:
Sat Aug 28, 2021 8:57 am
Prior to the shooting there were several guards outside the door, between the door and the crowd. They were neither attacked or harmed. There were several tactical officer behind the crowd. They were neither attacked or harmed. No doubt had the crowd been allowed through the door into the hallway any officers inside would have been treated equally.
Not all the police in the building tried to stop the rioters. Whether that's through a sense of self-preservation or some other reason we'll probably never know. If they had tried to hold off the rioters, we might have had a repeat of the situation on the Capitol steps. I also don't think that it's any police training manual to let an angry mob just go by you and hope they don't hurt you or commit any other crimes. Plus, you're assuming that Officer Byrd was in contact with those inside the doors and knew what was happening to or with them.

Also, his duty was to prevent those rioters from gaining access to the Congressional chambers. His position was probably the last reasonably defensible position in their way. Perhaps you thought they were yelling "Hang Mike Pence" as a joke.
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Re: Now we know who shot unarmed white woman - a black officer

#32 Post by silverscreenselect » Sun Aug 29, 2021 3:45 pm

Someone else who saw the Ashli Babbitt video and not the Fox News interpretation of it:

Ashli Babbitt was not a peaceful protester. It's clear why the cop who shot her was exonerated
In the seven months since she was killed, [Ashli] Babbitt has become a martyr to the far right. In the twisted revisionist narrative being pushed by former President Trump and his supporters, she was a peaceful demonstrator — an “innocent, wonderful, incredible woman” — who was unjustifiably murdered by the police even though she posed no danger.

But that’s not what the video shows. Her death was a tragedy, to be sure — but it was hardly an unjustified murder. In our first view of Babbitt on the video she’s at the front of an angry mob trying to get through to the “Speaker’s Lobby,” where members of Congress and staff are holed up. She’s screaming at the police, apparently demanding entry.

The crowd is surging. It’s at the doors. “F— the blue!” can be heard. People are bashing at the glass panels on the doors with sticks and flagpoles. Several police officers are doing their best to hold back an entire crowd, but it seems like a losing battle. “Break it down,” yells the crowd. Members of Congress can be seen on the other side of the door. Also on the other side of the door is a police lieutenant holding a gun, pointing it at the mob, an unmistakable warning to stay back. As she climbs through, a single shot is fired and she drops to the floor.

I haven’t interviewed the witnesses or seen any more evidence than what I’ve described. But my normal human reaction to the video tells me that the Capitol Police and the Justice Department are absolutely right. I watched it repeatedly. Babbitt crossed a line that had been clearly delineated. The police obviously felt it was a last stand. The potential danger was obvious. Babbitt’s shooting appears to have stopped the forward movement of the crowd. All this happened on a day when the vice president’s life had been threatened, and when police were being savagely beaten elsewhere in the building.

Could the mob possibly have been stopped without Babbitt’s death? Maybe. Perhaps there was a way to have avoided deadly force. But it’s not clear to me what that way would have been — and it is clear that if Babbitt had gone through that doorway, an out-of-control situation would have deteriorated further.

These weren’t peaceful demonstrators. These weren’t protesters exercising their constitutionally protected right to calmly express differences of opinion with their elected representatives. They were bashing down the doors. This was a riot, Ashli Babbitt was at its vanguard, and, based on what I’ve seen, the police officer who shot her was doing his job.
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Re: Now we know who shot unarmed white woman - a black officer

#33 Post by Estonut » Tue Aug 31, 2021 12:28 am

silverscreenselect wrote:
Sun Aug 29, 2021 3:45 pm
Someone else who saw the Ashli Babbitt video and not the Fox News interpretation of it:

Ashli Babbitt was not a peaceful protester. It's clear why the cop who shot her was exonerated
In the seven months since she was killed, [Ashli] Babbitt has become a martyr to the far right. In the twisted revisionist narrative being pushed by former President Trump and his supporters, she was a peaceful demonstrator — an “innocent, wonderful, incredible woman” — who was unjustifiably murdered by the police even though she posed no danger.

But that’s not what the video shows. Her death was a tragedy, to be sure — but it was hardly an unjustified murder. In our first view of Babbitt on the video she’s at the front of an angry mob trying to get through to the “Speaker’s Lobby,” where members of Congress and staff are holed up. She’s screaming at the police, apparently demanding entry.

The crowd is surging. It’s at the doors. “F— the blue!” can be heard. People are bashing at the glass panels on the doors with sticks and flagpoles. Several police officers are doing their best to hold back an entire crowd, but it seems like a losing battle. “Break it down,” yells the crowd. Members of Congress can be seen on the other side of the door. Also on the other side of the door is a police lieutenant holding a gun, pointing it at the mob, an unmistakable warning to stay back. As she climbs through, a single shot is fired and she drops to the floor.

I haven’t interviewed the witnesses or seen any more evidence than what I’ve described. But my normal human reaction to the video tells me that the Capitol Police and the Justice Department are absolutely right. I watched it repeatedly. Babbitt crossed a line that had been clearly delineated. The police obviously felt it was a last stand. The potential danger was obvious. Babbitt’s shooting appears to have stopped the forward movement of the crowd. All this happened on a day when the vice president’s life had been threatened, and when police were being savagely beaten elsewhere in the building.

Could the mob possibly have been stopped without Babbitt’s death? Maybe. Perhaps there was a way to have avoided deadly force. But it’s not clear to me what that way would have been — and it is clear that if Babbitt had gone through that doorway, an out-of-control situation would have deteriorated further.

These weren’t peaceful demonstrators. These weren’t protesters exercising their constitutionally protected right to calmly express differences of opinion with their elected representatives. They were bashing down the doors. This was a riot, Ashli Babbitt was at its vanguard, and, based on what I’ve seen, the police officer who shot her was doing his job.
Are the Capitol Police not equipped with tasers nor mace? I'd think either option would have turned her away without killing her.
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Re: Now we know who shot unarmed white woman - a black officer

#34 Post by Bob78164 » Tue Aug 31, 2021 1:32 am

Estonut wrote:
Tue Aug 31, 2021 12:28 am
silverscreenselect wrote:
Sun Aug 29, 2021 3:45 pm
Someone else who saw the Ashli Babbitt video and not the Fox News interpretation of it:

Ashli Babbitt was not a peaceful protester. It's clear why the cop who shot her was exonerated
In the seven months since she was killed, [Ashli] Babbitt has become a martyr to the far right. In the twisted revisionist narrative being pushed by former President Trump and his supporters, she was a peaceful demonstrator — an “innocent, wonderful, incredible woman” — who was unjustifiably murdered by the police even though she posed no danger.

But that’s not what the video shows. Her death was a tragedy, to be sure — but it was hardly an unjustified murder. In our first view of Babbitt on the video she’s at the front of an angry mob trying to get through to the “Speaker’s Lobby,” where members of Congress and staff are holed up. She’s screaming at the police, apparently demanding entry.

The crowd is surging. It’s at the doors. “F— the blue!” can be heard. People are bashing at the glass panels on the doors with sticks and flagpoles. Several police officers are doing their best to hold back an entire crowd, but it seems like a losing battle. “Break it down,” yells the crowd. Members of Congress can be seen on the other side of the door. Also on the other side of the door is a police lieutenant holding a gun, pointing it at the mob, an unmistakable warning to stay back. As she climbs through, a single shot is fired and she drops to the floor.

I haven’t interviewed the witnesses or seen any more evidence than what I’ve described. But my normal human reaction to the video tells me that the Capitol Police and the Justice Department are absolutely right. I watched it repeatedly. Babbitt crossed a line that had been clearly delineated. The police obviously felt it was a last stand. The potential danger was obvious. Babbitt’s shooting appears to have stopped the forward movement of the crowd. All this happened on a day when the vice president’s life had been threatened, and when police were being savagely beaten elsewhere in the building.

Could the mob possibly have been stopped without Babbitt’s death? Maybe. Perhaps there was a way to have avoided deadly force. But it’s not clear to me what that way would have been — and it is clear that if Babbitt had gone through that doorway, an out-of-control situation would have deteriorated further.

These weren’t peaceful demonstrators. These weren’t protesters exercising their constitutionally protected right to calmly express differences of opinion with their elected representatives. They were bashing down the doors. This was a riot, Ashli Babbitt was at its vanguard, and, based on what I’ve seen, the police officer who shot her was doing his job.
Are the Capitol Police not equipped with tasers nor mace? I'd think either option would have turned her away without killing her.
I'll ask you the same question I asked BiT. What's your opinion of stand-your-ground laws? --Bob
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Re: Now we know who shot unarmed white woman - a black officer

#35 Post by Estonut » Tue Aug 31, 2021 2:39 am

Bob78164 wrote:
Tue Aug 31, 2021 1:32 am
Estonut wrote:
Tue Aug 31, 2021 12:28 am
silverscreenselect wrote:
Sun Aug 29, 2021 3:45 pm
Someone else who saw the Ashli Babbitt video and not the Fox News interpretation of it:

Ashli Babbitt was not a peaceful protester. It's clear why the cop who shot her was exonerated
Are the Capitol Police not equipped with tasers nor mace? I'd think either option would have turned her away without killing her.
I'll ask you the same question I asked BiT. What's your opinion of stand-your-ground laws?
My opinion is that Washington D. C. does not have a stand your ground law, so that question is irrelevant.
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Re: Now we know who shot unarmed white woman - a black officer

#36 Post by silverscreenselect » Tue Aug 31, 2021 7:11 am

Estonut wrote:
Tue Aug 31, 2021 12:28 am
Are the Capitol Police not equipped with tasers nor mace? I'd think either option would have turned her away without killing her.
And what about the dozens of people behind her? This was not the typical one-on-one (or often several cops on one) confrontation that usually results in the use of a taser. Video of the shooting shows that the officer had his gun drawn and aimed when Babbitt came through the window. There was no way for the officer to know how well armed the first individual through the window would be, and there would have been no time for him to use a taser on Babbitt and then regroup and draw his pistol to use against the next people through the window.
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Re: Now we know who shot unarmed white woman - a black officer

#37 Post by Bob78164 » Tue Aug 31, 2021 9:44 am

Estonut wrote:
Tue Aug 31, 2021 2:39 am
Bob78164 wrote:
Tue Aug 31, 2021 1:32 am
Estonut wrote:
Tue Aug 31, 2021 12:28 am
Are the Capitol Police not equipped with tasers nor mace? I'd think either option would have turned her away without killing her.
I'll ask you the same question I asked BiT. What's your opinion of stand-your-ground laws?
My opinion is that Washington D. C. does not have a stand your ground law, so that question is irrelevant.
Not an answer. You're contending that the officer who fired in the defense of his own life and the life of others acted wrongfully, and should have either retreated or used a lower level of force that likely would have allowed the insurrectionists to physically enter the Capitol. I'd like to know whether you're holding the officer to a higher standard than you would in a stand-your-ground situation. I want to know whether you're being a hypocrite here because you happen to agree with the insurrectionists' politics (if not their tactics).

Would someone care to do the research to learn what, if anything, Estonut posted in response to the Trayvon Martin killing? It wouldn't surprise me at all if the posts evince a very different attitude toward the use of deadly force there. --Bob
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Re: Now we know who shot unarmed white woman - a black officer

#38 Post by Beebs52 » Tue Aug 31, 2021 2:25 pm

Bob78164 wrote:
Tue Aug 31, 2021 9:44 am
Estonut wrote:
Tue Aug 31, 2021 2:39 am
Bob78164 wrote:
Tue Aug 31, 2021 1:32 am
I'll ask you the same question I asked BiT. What's your opinion of stand-your-ground laws?
My opinion is that Washington D. C. does not have a stand your ground law, so that question is irrelevant.
Not an answer. You're contending that the officer who fired in the defense of his own life and the life of others acted wrongfully, and should have either retreated or used a lower level of force that likely would have allowed the insurrectionists to physically enter the Capitol. I'd like to know whether you're holding the officer to a higher standard than you would in a stand-your-ground situation. I want to know whether you're being a hypocrite here because you happen to agree with the insurrectionists' politics (if not their tactics).

Would someone care to do the research to learn what, if anything, Estonut posted in response to the Trayvon Martin killing? It wouldn't surprise me at all if the posts evince a very different attitude toward the use of deadly force there. --Bob
Do your own research, expert.

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Re: Now we know who shot unarmed white woman - a black officer

#39 Post by Beebs52 » Tue Aug 31, 2021 2:40 pm

Bob Juch wrote:
Fri Aug 27, 2021 8:44 pm
BackInTex wrote:
Fri Aug 27, 2021 3:44 pm
Bob Juch wrote:
Fri Aug 27, 2021 3:21 pm


If it had been a white officer, you wouldn't have mentioned his skin color. :x
I wouldn't have needed to. If the officer were white, and the victim black, we would have known his name that day, it would have been all over the news for weeks, and his family down to fourth cousins twice removed would have been doxed.

Either this cop fired indiscriminately into the crowd, or he singled out a white female to shoot. Either way he should lose his job. She was not a direct and immediate threat. He panicked, is my guess. His shot stopped one person. If he "no doubt saved countless lives" then it must be that one person he was talking about. So he thinks this one, unarmed white woman was going to kill countless people? The BS is so thick Pamplona is taking notes on how its being cleaned.
Your racism is disgusting.
Your misogynism is disgusting.
Well, then

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Re: Now we know who shot unarmed white woman - a black officer

#40 Post by Estonut » Tue Aug 31, 2021 6:49 pm

Bob78164 wrote:
Tue Aug 31, 2021 9:44 am
Estonut wrote:
Tue Aug 31, 2021 2:39 am
Bob78164 wrote:
Tue Aug 31, 2021 1:32 am
I'll ask you the same question I asked BiT. What's your opinion of stand-your-ground laws?
My opinion is that Washington D. C. does not have a stand your ground law, so that question is irrelevant.
Not an answer. You're contending that the officer who fired in the defense of his own life and the life of others acted wrongfully, and should have either retreated or used a lower level of force that likely would have allowed the insurrectionists to physically enter the Capitol. I'd like to know whether you're holding the officer to a higher standard than you would in a stand-your-ground situation. I want to know whether you're being a hypocrite here because you happen to agree with the insurrectionists' politics (if not their tactics).

Would someone care to do the research to learn what, if anything, Estonut posted in response to the Trayvon Martin killing? It wouldn't surprise me at all if the posts evince a very different attitude toward the use of deadly force there.
You claim to do your own research, but don't even know how to search the Bored?

Let me get that for you, dumbass!

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=44771&p=463911#p463911

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=48282&p=486823#p486823

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=44771&p=493039#p493039

Wrong again!
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Re: Now we know who shot unarmed white woman - a black officer

#41 Post by Bob Juch » Tue Aug 31, 2021 10:11 pm

Beebs52 wrote:
Tue Aug 31, 2021 2:40 pm
Bob Juch wrote:
Fri Aug 27, 2021 8:44 pm
BackInTex wrote:
Fri Aug 27, 2021 3:44 pm


I wouldn't have needed to. If the officer were white, and the victim black, we would have known his name that day, it would have been all over the news for weeks, and his family down to fourth cousins twice removed would have been doxed.

Either this cop fired indiscriminately into the crowd, or he singled out a white female to shoot. Either way he should lose his job. She was not a direct and immediate threat. He panicked, is my guess. His shot stopped one person. If he "no doubt saved countless lives" then it must be that one person he was talking about. So he thinks this one, unarmed white woman was going to kill countless people? The BS is so thick Pamplona is taking notes on how its being cleaned.
Your racism is disgusting.
Your misogynism is disgusting.
Are you fucking kidding me?!
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Re: Now we know who shot unarmed white woman - a black officer

#42 Post by Estonut » Wed Sep 01, 2021 12:33 am

Estonut wrote:
Tue Aug 31, 2021 6:49 pm
Bob78164 wrote:
Tue Aug 31, 2021 9:44 am
Estonut wrote:
Tue Aug 31, 2021 2:39 am
My opinion is that Washington D. C. does not have a stand your ground law, so that question is irrelevant.
Not an answer. You're contending that the officer who fired in the defense of his own life and the life of others acted wrongfully, and should have either retreated or used a lower level of force that likely would have allowed the insurrectionists to physically enter the Capitol. I'd like to know whether you're holding the officer to a higher standard than you would in a stand-your-ground situation. I want to know whether you're being a hypocrite here because you happen to agree with the insurrectionists' politics (if not their tactics).

Would someone care to do the research to learn what, if anything, Estonut posted in response to the Trayvon Martin killing? It wouldn't surprise me at all if the posts evince a very different attitude toward the use of deadly force there.
You claim to do your own research, but don't even know how to search the Bored?

Let me get that for you, dumbass!

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=44771&p=463911#p463911

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=48282&p=486823#p486823

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=44771&p=493039#p493039

Wrong again!
Here's more. I didn't think to search on Zimmerman before.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=44771&p=463908&hili ... an#p463908

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=44771&p=464778&hili ... an#p464778

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=44771&p=467458&hili ... an#p467458

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=44771&p=471949&hili ... an#p471949

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=44771&p=487870&hili ... an#p487870

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=44771&p=494039&hili ... an#p494039

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=49920&p=497859&hili ... an#p497859

Evincing enough?
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Re: Now we know who shot unarmed white woman - a black officer

#43 Post by Beebs52 » Wed Sep 01, 2021 12:13 pm

Bob Juch wrote:
Tue Aug 31, 2021 10:11 pm
Beebs52 wrote:
Tue Aug 31, 2021 2:40 pm
Bob Juch wrote:
Fri Aug 27, 2021 8:44 pm

Your racism is disgusting.
Your misogynism is disgusting.
Are you fucking kidding me?!
:D
Well, then

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Re: Now we know who shot unarmed white woman - a black officer

#44 Post by tlynn78 » Wed Sep 01, 2021 2:08 pm

Beebs52 wrote:
Wed Sep 01, 2021 12:13 pm
Bob Juch wrote:
Tue Aug 31, 2021 10:11 pm
Beebs52 wrote:
Tue Aug 31, 2021 2:40 pm

Your misogynism is disgusting.
Are you fucking kidding me?!
:D
LMAO
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Re: Now we know who shot unarmed white woman - a black officer

#45 Post by Estonut » Wed Sep 01, 2021 4:23 pm

silverscreenselect wrote:
Tue Aug 31, 2021 7:11 am
... and there would have been no time for him to use a taser on Babbitt and then regroup and draw his pistol to use against the next people through the window.
So, you gun expert, please estimate how long you think it would take for the officer to drop his (no longer functioning) taser and draw his weapon.
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Re: Now we know who shot unarmed white woman - a black officer

#46 Post by silverscreenselect » Wed Sep 01, 2021 4:38 pm

Estonut wrote:
Wed Sep 01, 2021 4:23 pm
silverscreenselect wrote:
Tue Aug 31, 2021 7:11 am
... and there would have been no time for him to use a taser on Babbitt and then regroup and draw his pistol to use against the next people through the window.
So, you gun expert, please estimate how long you think it would take for the officer to drop his (no longer functioning) taser and draw his weapon.
Longer than it would take someone coming through the window to get to him.

And that wasn't the question. The question was whether he should have guarded the door against a large number of dangerous, possibly armed assailants using his taser or a gun. Or should he have stood there until the first person came through the window and then decided which weapon to draw?
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Re: Now we know who shot unarmed white woman - a black officer

#47 Post by BackInTex » Wed Sep 01, 2021 6:18 pm

silverscreenselect wrote:
Wed Sep 01, 2021 4:38 pm
Estonut wrote:
Wed Sep 01, 2021 4:23 pm
silverscreenselect wrote:
Tue Aug 31, 2021 7:11 am
... and there would have been no time for him to use a taser on Babbitt and then regroup and draw his pistol to use against the next people through the window.
So, you gun expert, please estimate how long you think it would take for the officer to drop his (no longer functioning) taser and draw his weapon.
Longer than it would take someone coming through the window to get to him.

And that wasn't the question. The question was whether he should have guarded the door against a large number of dangerous, possibly armed assailants using his taser or a gun. Or should he have stood there until the first person came through the window and then decided which weapon to draw?
Why does he get a different set of criteria than street cops?
..what country can preserve it’s liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? let them take arms.
~~ Thomas Jefferson

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Re: Now we know who shot unarmed white woman - a black officer

#48 Post by wbtravis007 » Wed Sep 01, 2021 6:43 pm

BackInTex wrote:
Wed Sep 01, 2021 6:18 pm
silverscreenselect wrote:
Wed Sep 01, 2021 4:38 pm
Estonut wrote:
Wed Sep 01, 2021 4:23 pm
So, you gun expert, please estimate how long you think it would take for the officer to drop his (no longer functioning) taser and draw his weapon.
Longer than it would take someone coming through the window to get to him.

And that wasn't the question. The question was whether he should have guarded the door against a large number of dangerous, possibly armed assailants using his taser or a gun. Or should he have stood there until the first person came through the window and then decided which weapon to draw?
Why does he get a different set of criteria than street cops?
If the guys at the top inside the Alamo had had tasers I guess maybe they should have tried them first.

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Re: Now we know who shot unarmed white woman - a black officer

#49 Post by silverscreenselect » Wed Sep 01, 2021 7:05 pm

BackInTex wrote:
Wed Sep 01, 2021 6:18 pm
Why does he get a different set of criteria than street cops?
I'm not aware of any controversial shootings involving street cops being confronted with a mob of angry rioters. Perhaps you have some examples.
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