Why is CPAC rooting for America to fail?

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Re: Why is CPAC rooting for America to fail?

#26 Post by wbtravis007 » Thu Jul 15, 2021 2:02 pm

People have (and wear) NRA badges?

Man, talk about a nerd!

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Re: Why is CPAC rooting for America to fail?

#27 Post by BackInTex » Thu Jul 15, 2021 7:08 pm

Weyoun wrote:
Thu Jul 15, 2021 11:49 am

And I would add COVID can cause heart inflammation as well - I've seen it.
So, ignore the few terrible incidents of side effects to the vaccine, but pay attention to the few terrible side effects of COVID. Got it.

Weyoun wrote:
Thu Jul 15, 2021 11:49 am
Even if your symptoms from COVID are mild, you would have to miss work, and deal with other hassles.
Why would I have to miss work? I work from home most of the time.
Weyoun wrote:
Thu Jul 15, 2021 11:49 am
PS Are you on ANY medications? Did you put up a fight regarding any pills you take?
Not that it's any of your business, but no. I'm on zero medications. I take a fiber supplement, joint supplement, and vitamin D, when I remember. That's it.

What do you take?
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Re: Why is CPAC rooting for America to fail?

#28 Post by Bob78164 » Thu Jul 15, 2021 7:12 pm

BackInTex wrote:
Thu Jul 15, 2021 7:08 pm
Weyoun wrote:
Thu Jul 15, 2021 11:49 am

And I would add COVID can cause heart inflammation as well - I've seen it.
So, ignore the few terrible incidents of side effects to the vaccine, but pay attention to the few terrible side effects of COVID. Got it.
If you're saying the frequencies are remotely comparable, then at best you're being deliberately obtuse. They're not remotely close to comparable. We're talking orders of magnitude in difference. --Bob
"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear." Thomas Jefferson

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Re: Why is CPAC rooting for America to fail?

#29 Post by silverscreenselect » Thu Jul 15, 2021 7:40 pm

BackInTex wrote:
Thu Jul 15, 2021 7:08 pm
Why would I have to miss work? I work from home most of the time.
I would say that Weyoun has a far better understanding of the pandemic and vaccine from the emergency room than you do from your living room. And as those who have been around this Bored for a while know, he's not a died-in-the-wool liberal like me or the Bobs. But the current right wing tendency is to mock and belittle science and glorify nonsense that fits in with their political beliefs. I'm guessing that Mr. NRA felt the same way you did about the vaccine.
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Re: Why is CPAC rooting for America to fail?

#30 Post by Weyoun » Fri Jul 16, 2021 8:15 am

BackInTex wrote:
Thu Jul 15, 2021 7:08 pm
Weyoun wrote:
Thu Jul 15, 2021 11:49 am

And I would add COVID can cause heart inflammation as well - I've seen it.
So, ignore the few terrible incidents of side effects to the vaccine, but pay attention to the few terrible side effects of COVID. Got it.

Weyoun wrote:
Thu Jul 15, 2021 11:49 am
Even if your symptoms from COVID are mild, you would have to miss work, and deal with other hassles.
Why would I have to miss work? I work from home most of the time.
Weyoun wrote:
Thu Jul 15, 2021 11:49 am
PS Are you on ANY medications? Did you put up a fight regarding any pills you take?
Not that it's any of your business, but no. I'm on zero medications. I take a fiber supplement, joint supplement, and vitamin D, when I remember. That's it.

What do you take?
From what we’ve seen, the risk of heart inflammation from Covid is actually higher than from the vaccines.

I think if you cornered me, I would tell you to be cautious about the vaccine in teenage boys, but I think pretty much anyone over the age of 20 should be getting vaccinated without a significant medical counter indication.

My point about the medication is that folks who will take pills for any number of things just because their doctor prescribes them, even if these pills do have real side effects (see the verbiage in ads) are suddenly VERY worried about side effects in vaccines and are fearful that companies might be trying to make MONEY with vaccines, which of course they don’t do with other medicines.

Sorry to report, but vaccines are really just another medicine. Your fear that they are somehow more permanent than other medicines isn’t really very well founded. After all, you have to get booster shots and stuff.

I’ve seen all sorts of terrible medication side effects, usually from antibiotics. Yet I bet you’ve taken antibiotics without thinking.

And of course if you or a loved did get sick from Covid - and let’s hope that never happens - you would seek out treatment from that same doctor recommending the vaccine. Such is the way of the logically incoherent, blundering from whatever crisis is immediately in front of them to the next such crisis.

If previous online arguments are any indication, at this point I predict you try to change the subject, ie “well I think human trafficking is worse than this. Why aren’t YOU mad about that?”

BTW, Sss and Bob#s are correct. I’m not some communist. For crying out loud, I voted for Mitt Romney.

Have a good day.

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Re: Why is CPAC rooting for America to fail?

#31 Post by Pastor Fireball » Fri Jul 16, 2021 9:51 am

If CPAC truly wanted America to fail, they would have overwhelmingly voted for Orange Former Guy in their quadrennial straw poll. (Oh wait... they did.)
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Re: Why is CPAC rooting for America to fail?

#32 Post by Spock » Fri Jul 16, 2021 8:41 pm

Bob78164 wrote:
Mon Jul 12, 2021 11:15 am
Conservative activists cheered, literally cheered, America missing the Biden Administration's vaccination goal. Why are conservative activists rooting for America to fail? Why are Republican voters rewarding them (with endorsements and primary wins) for rooting against America? Patriotic Americans want to know. --Bob
It makes me happy that you waste any portion of the time remaining to you in this life worrying about what conservative activists at CPAC are doing.

I LOL that they are living rent-free in your head.

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Re: Why is CPAC rooting for America to fail?

#33 Post by Bob78164 » Fri Jul 16, 2021 8:46 pm

Spock wrote:
Fri Jul 16, 2021 8:41 pm
Bob78164 wrote:
Mon Jul 12, 2021 11:15 am
Conservative activists cheered, literally cheered, America missing the Biden Administration's vaccination goal. Why are conservative activists rooting for America to fail? Why are Republican voters rewarding them (with endorsements and primary wins) for rooting against America? Patriotic Americans want to know. --Bob
It makes me happy that you waste any portion of the time remaining to you in this life worrying about what conservative activists at CPAC are doing.

I LOL that they are living rent-free in your head.
Thanks to you and people like you, Spock, Los Angeles County is resuming a mask mandate starting Sunday. So your delusions, and those of people like you, are now directly affecting my life even though I've done the right thing.

So you can go fuck yourself. --Bob
"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear." Thomas Jefferson

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Re: Why is CPAC rooting for America to fail?

#34 Post by silverscreenselect » Fri Jul 16, 2021 10:40 pm

Spock wrote:
Fri Jul 16, 2021 8:41 pm
I LOL that they are living rent-free in your head.
I don't mind conservative activists living rent free in my head. I do mind when mobs of them squat rent free in the Capitol.
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Re: Why is CPAC rooting for America to fail?

#35 Post by BackInTex » Mon Jul 19, 2021 10:26 am

Bob78164 wrote:
Fri Jul 16, 2021 8:46 pm
Spock wrote:
Fri Jul 16, 2021 8:41 pm
Bob78164 wrote:
Mon Jul 12, 2021 11:15 am
Conservative activists cheered, literally cheered, America missing the Biden Administration's vaccination goal. Why are conservative activists rooting for America to fail? Why are Republican voters rewarding them (with endorsements and primary wins) for rooting against America? Patriotic Americans want to know. --Bob
It makes me happy that you waste any portion of the time remaining to you in this life worrying about what conservative activists at CPAC are doing.

I LOL that they are living rent-free in your head.
Thanks to you and people like you, Spock, Los Angeles County is resuming a mask mandate starting Sunday. So your delusions, and those of people like you, are now directly affecting my life even though I've done the right thing.

So you can go fuck yourself. --Bob
One, Spock has nothing to do with you mask mandate. He is not even there.
Two, people like Spock are not responsible for the resumption of a mask mandate
Two.1 - Spock is not sick so he, nor people like him would cause any infections that might lead to the presumptive need for a mask mandate
Two2 - people like Spock would never resume a mask mandate. People like YOU Bob are the ones doing that
Three - people like you Bob, and their policies, have created the unhealthy environment of the homeless and the illegal immigrants (though CA is seeing less than TX so I don't think that has much to do with the presumptive need for a mask mandate)
Four - TX has more people like Spock than CA, and we are not resuming a mask mandate.

Once again, your blame is misdirected. You need a mirror.
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Re: Why is CPAC rooting for America to fail?

#36 Post by Bob78164 » Mon Jul 19, 2021 11:30 am

BackInTex wrote:
Mon Jul 19, 2021 10:26 am
Bob78164 wrote:
Fri Jul 16, 2021 8:46 pm
Spock wrote:
Fri Jul 16, 2021 8:41 pm
It makes me happy that you waste any portion of the time remaining to you in this life worrying about what conservative activists at CPAC are doing.

I LOL that they are living rent-free in your head.
Thanks to you and people like you, Spock, Los Angeles County is resuming a mask mandate starting Sunday. So your delusions, and those of people like you, are now directly affecting my life even though I've done the right thing.

So you can go fuck yourself. --Bob
One, Spock has nothing to do with you mask mandate. He is not even there.
Two, people like Spock are not responsible for the resumption of a mask mandate
Two.1 - Spock is not sick so he, nor people like him would cause any infections that might lead to the presumptive need for a mask mandate
Two2 - people like Spock would never resume a mask mandate. People like YOU Bob are the ones doing that
Three - people like you Bob, and their policies, have created the unhealthy environment of the homeless and the illegal immigrants (though CA is seeing less than TX so I don't think that has much to do with the presumptive need for a mask mandate)
Four - TX has more people like Spock than CA, and we are not resuming a mask mandate.

Once again, your blame is misdirected. You need a mirror.
California's hospitalization numbers have doubled in the last five weeks.

Los Angeles County imposed a mask mandate because too many people who were required to wear masks indoors (because they chose not to get vaccinated) were posing as safely vaccinated people and not wearing masks. And yes, I think that if Spock had some reason to be in Los Angeles County he would have been one of the poseurs -- in the name of freedom, of course.

So trust in the public to follow the rules wasn't working, because of the cheaters. That meant the choice was between requiring pretty much all buildings open to the public to require proof of vaccination or simply requiring everyone to wear masks indoors. I can't blame government for choosing the latter option. Nor can I blame them for taking this step while the exponential curve is still in the relatively early stages of its climb.

But what really ought to happen is health insurance carriers should be permitted to charge a surcharge to people who can get vaccinated but choose not to do so, just like we allow carriers to charge increased rates to smokers. The surcharge, of course, would not be eligible for a subsidy. Let's see if the holdouts' freedom to infect others is worth one or two hundred dollars a month to them. --Bob
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Re: Why is CPAC rooting for America to fail?

#37 Post by BackInTex » Mon Jul 19, 2021 12:37 pm

Bob78164 wrote:
Mon Jul 19, 2021 11:30 am
Let's see if the holdouts' freedom to infect others is worth one or two hundred dollars a month to them. --Bob
I would not be opposed to that. However, let’s go further. Charge premiums for those overweight, too. Especially those with Type II diabetes.

I’m all for a market based approach to medical care and insurance.
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Re: Why is CPAC rooting for America to fail?

#38 Post by Bob Juch » Mon Jul 19, 2021 12:56 pm

BackInTex wrote:
Mon Jul 19, 2021 12:37 pm
Bob78164 wrote:
Mon Jul 19, 2021 11:30 am
Let's see if the holdouts' freedom to infect others is worth one or two hundred dollars a month to them. --Bob
I would not be opposed to that. However, let’s go further. Charge premiums for those overweight, too. Especially those with Type II diabetes.

I’m all for a market-based approach to medical care and insurance.
People with diabetes don't infect others.
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Re: Why is CPAC rooting for America to fail?

#39 Post by Bob78164 » Mon Jul 19, 2021 2:02 pm

Bob Juch wrote:
Mon Jul 19, 2021 12:56 pm
BackInTex wrote:
Mon Jul 19, 2021 12:37 pm
Bob78164 wrote:
Mon Jul 19, 2021 11:30 am
Let's see if the holdouts' freedom to infect others is worth one or two hundred dollars a month to them. --Bob
I would not be opposed to that. However, let’s go further. Charge premiums for those overweight, too. Especially those with Type II diabetes.

I’m all for a market-based approach to medical care and insurance.
People with diabetes don't infect others.
More importantly, people with diabetes didn't choose to get diabetes. And many severely overweight people would dearly love to lose the weight. For one reason or another, they just can't do it.

It's one thing to levy a surcharge based on something that a person can readily choose to change. That's why I'd carve out of my proposed surcharge people who either aren't eligible for the vaccine (too young) or people for whom the vaccine is medically contraindicated.

BiT's idea completely undercuts the idea of insurance, which is risk-spreading. You really don't want to fragment the market, particularly with respect to qualities that people cannot control, because those people in the more expensive parts of the market will find themselves priced out of insurance altogether through no fault of their own. --Bob
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Re: Why is CPAC rooting for America to fail?

#40 Post by BackInTex » Wed Jul 21, 2021 9:52 am

Weyoun wrote:
Fri Jul 16, 2021 8:15 am
I think if you cornered me, I would tell you to be cautious about the vaccine in teenage boys, but I think pretty much anyone over the age of 20 should be getting vaccinated without a significant medical counter indication.
Interesting. What is the concern? Why just teenage boys?

Weyoun wrote:
Fri Jul 16, 2021 8:15 am
My point about the medication is that folks who will take pills for any number of things just because their doctor prescribes them, even if these pills do have real side effects (see the verbiage in ads) are suddenly VERY worried about side effects in vaccines and are fearful that companies might be trying to make MONEY with vaccines, which of course they don’t do with other medicines.
I'm mostly concerned with taking any medication that is not really needed. All medications have potential side effects. I'm a firm believer that one should let their body, when able, to do what it was designed to do. Most traditional vaccines do that, but the mRNA type vaccines are different, and (I hope) you know that.


Weyoun wrote:
Fri Jul 16, 2021 8:15 am
I’ve seen all sorts of terrible medication side effects, usually from antibiotics. Yet I bet you’ve taken antibiotics without thinking.
Once again, a medical professional assuming they are the only people with intelligence. I don't take anything without thinking.

You seem to be a medical professional that wouldn't listen to patients because you assume they are stupid. I nearly died because of such arrogance. I will predict your arrogance will kill more people than any arrogance I may ever exhibit.

Weyoun wrote:
Fri Jul 16, 2021 8:15 am
Sorry to report, but vaccines are really just another medicine. Your fear that they are somehow more permanent than other medicines isn’t really very well founded. After all, you have to get booster shots and stuff.
More arrogance or do you not understand the difference in how various "medications" work? I assume arrogance, at least I hope so.
There are different medicines that have different purposes and even when having the same purpose use completely different methods. Saying something is "just another medicine" is over simplifying, and dangerous.

Saying vaccines are just another medicine is like comparing a gun to a dead bolt lock as just another crime prevention tool. They are completely different in their purpose and methodology.

Weyoun wrote:
Fri Jul 16, 2021 8:15 am
I’m not some communist. For crying out loud, I voted for Mitt Romney.
LOL. Not much of a defense. I too voted for Romney, or rather against Obama. I would never say I'm conservative because I voted for Romney.
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Re: Why is CPAC rooting for America to fail?

#41 Post by BackInTex » Wed Jul 21, 2021 10:50 am

Weyoun wrote:
Fri Jul 16, 2021 8:15 am
If previous online arguments are any indication, at this point I predict you try to change the subject, ie “well I think human trafficking is worse than this. Why aren’t YOU mad about that?”
Being critical of a behavior you are predicting by exhibiting that behavior yourself is hypocritical.

Also, please find and link to such behavior by me. While I may have gone outside of a post's topic, it is usually because someone else had already breached the the original topic. But I am curious where you put that behavior on me. If it is as prevalent as you suggest it should be an easy find. I'll wait.
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Re: Why is CPAC rooting for America to fail?

#42 Post by silverscreenselect » Wed Jul 21, 2021 1:38 pm

BackInTex wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 9:52 am
I'm mostly concerned with taking any medication that is not really needed. All medications have potential side effects. I'm a firm believer that one should let their body, when able, to do what it was designed to do. Most traditional vaccines do that, but the mRNA type vaccines are different, and (I hope) you know that. I don't take anything without thinking.
I'm curious about the thinking process that goes into determining whether to take any medications. It obviously doesn't include listening to the overwhelming weight of medical experts who have expressed opinions. Perhaps your medical training and education or your training in biochemistry are more advanced than Weyoun's and Fauci's and the rest of them.

Your statements show how little you know about how vaccines, either "traditional" or "mRNA" work. All vaccines work by introducing a foreign substance into the body in the hopes of triggering the creation of antibodies that will fight future infections. In the case of traditional vaccines, it's a related (cowpox), weakened, or deadened strain of the virus. For a couple of centuries, that's the only way we could make vaccines, and there were obvious risks involved. The mRNA vaccine introduces a modified version of RNA that instructs the body to create a spike protein that triggers the creation of antibodies. That spike protein is what causes the body to "sense" that the virus in present and start the antibody process. In both cases, the vaccine causes the body to "do what it was designed to do" more quickly and safely. The mRNA vaccine just starts the process one stage earlier. The mRNA doesn't enter the cell nucleus; it doesn't interact with or affect the body's DNA, so there's no "gene modification."

Now I happen to agree with you about taking certain medications, especially painkillers. After my surgery, I refused a couple of painkillers they wanted me to take and still wound up with a prescription for Oxy (that's joined my Oxy collection that I've been prescribed and never taken over the years. If I get desperate for cash someday, I can sell those to junkies for a couple of bucks apiece.) But I don't know where you're getting your information about the relative degree of risks involved and the potential danger of not getting the vaccine. It's not based on any medical evidence other than Tucker Carlson rants and anonymous Facebook posts. It's really like people's fear of flying because of the fear of dying in a crash. Flying 1,000 miles to a destination is much less risky than driving 1,000 miles to that same destination.
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Re: Why is CPAC rooting for America to fail?

#43 Post by BackInTex » Wed Jul 21, 2021 3:53 pm

silverscreenselect wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 1:38 pm
BackInTex wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 9:52 am
I'm mostly concerned with taking any medication that is not really needed. All medications have potential side effects. I'm a firm believer that one should let their body, when able, to do what it was designed to do. Most traditional vaccines do that, but the mRNA type vaccines are different, and (I hope) you know that. I don't take anything without thinking.
I'm curious about the thinking process that goes into determining whether to take any medications. It obviously doesn't include listening to the overwhelming weight of medical experts who have expressed opinions. Perhaps your medical training and education or your training in biochemistry are more advanced than Weyoun's and Fauci's and the rest of them.

Your statements show how little you know about how vaccines, either "traditional" or "mRNA" work. All vaccines work by introducing a foreign substance into the body in the hopes of triggering the creation of antibodies that will fight future infections. In the case of traditional vaccines, it's a related (cowpox), weakened, or deadened strain of the virus. For a couple of centuries, that's the only way we could make vaccines, and there were obvious risks involved. The mRNA vaccine introduces a modified version of RNA that instructs the body to create a spike protein that triggers the creation of antibodies. That spike protein is what causes the body to "sense" that the virus in present and start the antibody process. In both cases, the vaccine causes the body to "do what it was designed to do" more quickly and safely. The mRNA vaccine just starts the process one stage earlier. The mRNA doesn't enter the cell nucleus; it doesn't interact with or affect the body's DNA, so there's no "gene modification."

Now I happen to agree with you about taking certain medications, especially painkillers. After my surgery, I refused a couple of painkillers they wanted me to take and still wound up with a prescription for Oxy (that's joined my Oxy collection that I've been prescribed and never taken over the years. If I get desperate for cash someday, I can sell those to junkies for a couple of bucks apiece.) But I don't know where you're getting your information about the relative degree of risks involved and the potential danger of not getting the vaccine. It's not based on any medical evidence other than Tucker Carlson rants and anonymous Facebook posts. It's really like people's fear of flying because of the fear of dying in a crash. Flying 1,000 miles to a destination is much less risky than driving 1,000 miles to that same destination.
I guess we can disagree on what mRNA vaccines do is having the human body do what it was designed to do. My understanding, and most of the literature, says the mRNA vaccines "teach" the body how to make a specific protein (one it does not already do) that triggers the immune response. Our bodies are not designed to create something that itself wants to fight. That by definition, is autoimmune.

Do you not make decisions? Do you just do what people, whom you think are smarter than you, tell you to do? It would be foolish to always just "do what the doctor ordered" because you think he may be smarter. Of course you've admitted to just that, so I guess I have my answer.
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Re: Why is CPAC rooting for America to fail?

#44 Post by silverscreenselect » Wed Jul 21, 2021 4:26 pm

BackInTex wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 3:53 pm
I guess we can disagree on what mRNA vaccines do is having the human body do what it was designed to do. My understanding, and most of the literature, says the mRNA vaccines "teach" the body how to make a specific protein (one it does not already do) that triggers the immune response. Our bodies are not designed to create something that itself wants to fight. That is by definition, is autoimmune.

Do you not make decisions? Do you just do what people, whom you think are smarter than you, tell you to do? It would be foolish to always just "do what the doctor ordered" because you think he may be smarter. Of course you've admitted to just that, so I guess I have my answer.
So if I understand your thinking, injecting deadly viruses into the body (albeit weakened or dead versions of those viruses) to trigger antibody response is okay, but injecting a synthetic version of a substance (mRNA) that's already present in the body so that it can produce another harmless substance that will trigger the antibody response is not. And this is based on the teachings of Dr. Tucker Carlson and our own Bored's Doctor Spock. Got it.

You would probably disapprove of transplant surgery as well. The body is certainly not designed to replace a lung or kidney. Heck, dialysis is also a no-no. We weren't designed to have a machine take care of our kidney function either. And my cancer treatment is a no-no. Putting radiation in the body (or chemicals for that matter) isn't what the body was intended to do.

As for my reluctance to start taking Oxy, that wasn't just my opinion versus my doctor's. It was my opinion based on a ton of current medical advice versus the doctor.

I did read something today that surprised me. Before the development of the polio vaccine in the early 1950s, polio killed about 2,000 people a year in the United States. Of course, the population of the US in 1950 was about 150 million, so 2,000 deaths then corresponds to about 4,500 deaths today. So a vaccine that saved about 2,000 deaths a year in 1950 was hailed as a miracle and people rushed to get it as soon as it was available, but a vaccine that could save many times that number is being rejected by our right-wing medical "experts."
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Re: Why is CPAC rooting for America to fail?

#45 Post by Bob78164 » Wed Jul 21, 2021 4:42 pm

BackInTex wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 3:53 pm
I guess we can disagree on what mRNA vaccines do is having the human body do what it was designed to do. My understanding, and most of the literature, says the mRNA vaccines "teach" the body how to make a specific protein (one it does not already do) that triggers the immune response. Our bodies are not designed to create something that itself wants to fight. That by definition, is autoimmune.
I hadn't realized just how profoundly you don't know what you're talking about. That is literally how every virus you've ever contracted in your life works. It invades your body's cells, hijacks them, and gets the cell to replicate more copies of the virus. Think of the chestburster from Alien on a cellular level. Which your body's immune system then fights.

The difference is that the mRNA vaccine accomplishes this task without killing the cells it enters, and the proteins it manufactures are not capable of taking over further cells.

At this point, though, it's clear that the Delta variant is highly transmissible. Which means that within only a few months there will be only two types of people in this country. Those who have been vaccinated and those who have been infected. There will be some people in both groups, but virtually all of them will feel nothing worse than a cold. There will be virtually no one who is outside both groups.

So if you haven't yet been vaccinated and don't plan to be, I hope you survive your inevitable infection. You may be a PITA, but you're our PITA and I don't want to see you profoundly ill, especially from an avoidable cause. --Bob
"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear." Thomas Jefferson

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BackInTex
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Re: Why is CPAC rooting for America to fail?

#46 Post by BackInTex » Thu Jul 22, 2021 7:26 am

Bob78164 wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 4:42 pm
BackInTex wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 3:53 pm
I guess we can disagree on what mRNA vaccines do is having the human body do what it was designed to do. My understanding, and most of the literature, says the mRNA vaccines "teach" the body how to make a specific protein (one it does not already do) that triggers the immune response. Our bodies are not designed to create something that itself wants to fight. That by definition, is autoimmune.
I hadn't realized just how profoundly you don't know what you're talking about. That is literally how every virus you've ever contracted in your life works. It invades your body's cells, hijacks them, and gets the cell to replicate more copies of the virus. Think of the chestburster from Alien on a cellular level. Which your body's immune system then fights.

The difference is that the mRNA vaccine accomplishes this task without killing the cells it enters, and the proteins it manufactures are not capable of taking over further cells.
You'll need to be more specific on where I'm wrong and why. Start with what I said, because what you are saying does not invalidate what I said. Perhaps put your trial hat on and start with the evidence (what I said).
Bob78164 wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 4:42 pm
At this point, though, it's clear that the Delta variant is highly transmissible. Which means that within only a few months there will be only two types of people in this country. Those who have been vaccinated and those who have been infected. There will be some people in both groups, but virtually all of them will feel nothing worse than a cold. There will be virtually no one who is outside both groups.

So if you haven't yet been vaccinated and don't plan to be, I hope you survive your inevitable infection. You may be a PITA, but you're our PITA and I don't want to see you profoundly ill, especially from an avoidable cause. --Bob
And yet there is wide spread panic, mask mandates, talk of forced vaccinations, HIPAA violating requirements for "passports",,,,, all for nothing worse than a common cold.
..what country can preserve it’s liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? let them take arms.
~~ Thomas Jefferson

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Re: Why is CPAC rooting for America to fail?

#47 Post by silverscreenselect » Thu Jul 22, 2021 7:39 am

BackInTex wrote:
Thu Jul 22, 2021 7:26 am
And yet there is wide spread panic, mask mandates, talk of forced vaccinations, HIPAA violating requirements for "passports",,,,, all for nothing worse than a common cold.
No, what Bob said was that those who have been vaccinated and still contract COVID will have, at most, mild symptoms. Those who haven't been vaccinated are the reason why ICUs are filling up rapidly in red states. And the longer that COVID hangs around, the greater the chance of even worse variants springing up.

The average life expectancy in the United States went down by 1 1/2 years, for the first time since World War II. This is not something that's "nothing worse than a common cold." Just ask Mr. NRA, if he's still around to talk about it.
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Re: Why is CPAC rooting for America to fail?

#48 Post by Weyoun » Thu Jul 22, 2021 10:11 am

BackInTex wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 3:53 pm
silverscreenselect wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 1:38 pm
BackInTex wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 9:52 am
I'm mostly concerned with taking any medication that is not really needed. All medications have potential side effects. I'm a firm believer that one should let their body, when able, to do what it was designed to do. Most traditional vaccines do that, but the mRNA type vaccines are different, and (I hope) you know that. I don't take anything without thinking.
I'm curious about the thinking process that goes into determining whether to take any medications. It obviously doesn't include listening to the overwhelming weight of medical experts who have expressed opinions. Perhaps your medical training and education or your training in biochemistry are more advanced than Weyoun's and Fauci's and the rest of them.

Your statements show how little you know about how vaccines, either "traditional" or "mRNA" work. All vaccines work by introducing a foreign substance into the body in the hopes of triggering the creation of antibodies that will fight future infections. In the case of traditional vaccines, it's a related (cowpox), weakened, or deadened strain of the virus. For a couple of centuries, that's the only way we could make vaccines, and there were obvious risks involved. The mRNA vaccine introduces a modified version of RNA that instructs the body to create a spike protein that triggers the creation of antibodies. That spike protein is what causes the body to "sense" that the virus in present and start the antibody process. In both cases, the vaccine causes the body to "do what it was designed to do" more quickly and safely. The mRNA vaccine just starts the process one stage earlier. The mRNA doesn't enter the cell nucleus; it doesn't interact with or affect the body's DNA, so there's no "gene modification."

Now I happen to agree with you about taking certain medications, especially painkillers. After my surgery, I refused a couple of painkillers they wanted me to take and still wound up with a prescription for Oxy (that's joined my Oxy collection that I've been prescribed and never taken over the years. If I get desperate for cash someday, I can sell those to junkies for a couple of bucks apiece.) But I don't know where you're getting your information about the relative degree of risks involved and the potential danger of not getting the vaccine. It's not based on any medical evidence other than Tucker Carlson rants and anonymous Facebook posts. It's really like people's fear of flying because of the fear of dying in a crash. Flying 1,000 miles to a destination is much less risky than driving 1,000 miles to that same destination.
I guess we can disagree on what mRNA vaccines do is having the human body do what it was designed to do. My understanding, and most of the literature, says the mRNA vaccines "teach" the body how to make a specific protein (one it does not already do) that triggers the immune response. Our bodies are not designed to create something that itself wants to fight. That by definition, is autoimmune.

Do you not make decisions? Do you just do what people, whom you think are smarter than you, tell you to do? It would be foolish to always just "do what the doctor ordered" because you think he may be smarter. Of course you've admitted to just that, so I guess I have my answer.
An antigen from a traditional vaccine is also a protein the body is not familiar with. Is that not "autoimmune" also?

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Re: Why is CPAC rooting for America to fail?

#49 Post by Weyoun » Thu Jul 22, 2021 10:15 am

BackInTex wrote:
Wed Jul 21, 2021 9:52 am
Weyoun wrote:
Fri Jul 16, 2021 8:15 am
I think if you cornered me, I would tell you to be cautious about the vaccine in teenage boys, but I think pretty much anyone over the age of 20 should be getting vaccinated without a significant medical counter indication.
Interesting. What is the concern? Why just teenage boys?

Weyoun wrote:
Fri Jul 16, 2021 8:15 am
My point about the medication is that folks who will take pills for any number of things just because their doctor prescribes them, even if these pills do have real side effects (see the verbiage in ads) are suddenly VERY worried about side effects in vaccines and are fearful that companies might be trying to make MONEY with vaccines, which of course they don’t do with other medicines.
I'm mostly concerned with taking any medication that is not really needed. All medications have potential side effects. I'm a firm believer that one should let their body, when able, to do what it was designed to do. Most traditional vaccines do that, but the mRNA type vaccines are different, and (I hope) you know that.


Weyoun wrote:
Fri Jul 16, 2021 8:15 am
I’ve seen all sorts of terrible medication side effects, usually from antibiotics. Yet I bet you’ve taken antibiotics without thinking.
Once again, a medical professional assuming they are the only people with intelligence. I don't take anything without thinking.

You seem to be a medical professional that wouldn't listen to patients because you assume they are stupid. I nearly died because of such arrogance. I will predict your arrogance will kill more people than any arrogance I may ever exhibit.

Weyoun wrote:
Fri Jul 16, 2021 8:15 am
Sorry to report, but vaccines are really just another medicine. Your fear that they are somehow more permanent than other medicines isn’t really very well founded. After all, you have to get booster shots and stuff.
More arrogance or do you not understand the difference in how various "medications" work? I assume arrogance, at least I hope so.
There are different medicines that have different purposes and even when having the same purpose use completely different methods. Saying something is "just another medicine" is over simplifying, and dangerous.

Saying vaccines are just another medicine is like comparing a gun to a dead bolt lock as just another crime prevention tool. They are completely different in their purpose and methodology.

Weyoun wrote:
Fri Jul 16, 2021 8:15 am
I’m not some communist. For crying out loud, I voted for Mitt Romney.
LOL. Not much of a defense. I too voted for Romney, or rather against Obama. I would never say I'm conservative because I voted for Romney.
I think you would say you are conservative because culturally you are resistant to change and new ideas, and not because of actual political positions. You've made it abundantly clear your fears are psychologically grounded and not based in actual facts.

I work in a high risk field where I discuss, all the time, the risks and benefits of interventions with patients. I have found that you absolutely cannot talk down to them if you want to do that well. I am not talking down to you - you're just not willing to listen. You started with the assumption that these vaccines are scary and bad and you've never changed your mind. You cite fears about mRNA - well why not take the Janssen vaccine, then? Trump lost the election either way, I promise it won't make a difference.

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Re: Why is CPAC rooting for America to fail?

#50 Post by BackInTex » Thu Jul 22, 2021 4:39 pm

Weyoun wrote:
Thu Jul 22, 2021 10:11 am
An antigen from a traditional vaccine is also a protein the body is not familiar with. Is that not "autoimmune" also?
No. In a traditional vaccine the body does not make the protein that it creates antibodies to destroy. Those proteins are foreign and from an external source (the vaccine).

mRNA instructs the body to create something, the proteins, that then it creates antibodies to destroy. So the body destroys something it created itself.
Weyoun wrote:
Thu Jul 22, 2021 10:11 am
I am not talking down to you - you're just not willing to listen. You started with the assumption that these vaccines are scary and bad and you've never changed your mind. You cite fears about mRNA
Tell me why you would advise against giving the vaccine to teenage boys. But not girls? Why not pre-pubescent boys. I'm listening.
..what country can preserve it’s liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? let them take arms.
~~ Thomas Jefferson

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