And Just Like That-"With" Covid is an Official Thing

[Spock]

https://twitter.com/justinbaragona/stat ... 9449649154

Apparently. for the vaccinated who have Covid and die-Comorbidities are suddenly on the table. We can say they died "With" Covid" but not necessarily "Of" Covid.

>>>"CDC Director Rochelle Walensky, somewhat confusingly, says they are aware of 223 people who have died with covid after being vaccinated.

"Not all of those 223 cases who had covid actually died of covid. They may have had mild disease but died, for example, of a heart attack."<<<<

So how many of the non-vaccinated 600,000 (or so) official Covid deaths may have had mild Covid, but died of a heart attack?

Or are such considerations only on the table for vaccinated Covid deaths?

[Bob78164]

Given the disparity in 2020 between expected deaths and actual deaths in the United States, it's much more likely that we significantly undercounted deaths caused by COVID-19 than that we overcounted them. Particularly since we pretty much didn't have a flu season, thus removing a source that usually results in a few tens of thousands of deaths annually. --Bob

[Weyoun]

Millions have been vaccinated, and 223 die, and you think it's fishy.

MEANWHiLE nearly 600,000 unvaccinated Americans die "with" Covid and your response is to minimize it.

[Bob78164]

Millions have been vaccinated, and 223 die, and you think it's fishy.

MEANWHiLE nearly 600,000 unvaccinated Americans die "with" Covid and your response is to minimize it.

To be fair to Spock, I don't think that's his point in this particular post. He's claiming that data-reporting standards have changed in a way that has the effect of magnifying the effectiveness of vaccinations. I'm quite confident he's wrong about the impact and I agree that he's doing his level best to cherry-pick thoughts that underplay the effectiveness of the vaccine, but I'm less confident that he's wrong about the comparison not being truly apples-to-apples. --Bob

[BackInTex]

Given the disparity in 2020 between expected deaths and actual deaths in the United States, it's much more likely that we significantly undercounted deaths caused by COVID-19 than that we overcounted them. Particularly since we pretty much didn't have a flu season, thus removing a source that usually results in a few tens of thousands of deaths annually. --Bob

Please show your work. You seem to be contradicting yourself. The fact we "didn't have a flu season" that usually results in 10s of thousands of deaths could be because most flu deaths were counted as Covid. However, let's say only a handful of people did die of flu and they were properly classified, that means Covid deaths were counted correctly unless you are saying many folks who classified as having died of non-Covid/non-flu were actually Covid. I'm not sure the numbers you are seeing could support such errors. But like I asked, show your work. How many deaths in 2019, in 2020, expected in 2020 (how is that calculated), and what 2020 deaths do you think weren't counted as Covid that should have been.

[Bob78164]

Given the disparity in 2020 between expected deaths and actual deaths in the United States, it's much more likely that we significantly undercounted deaths caused by COVID-19 than that we overcounted them. Particularly since we pretty much didn't have a flu season, thus removing a source that usually results in a few tens of thousands of deaths annually. --Bob

Please show your work. You seem to be contradicting yourself. The fact we "didn't have a flu season" that usually results in 10s of thousands of deaths could be because most flu deaths were counted as Covid. However, let's say only a handful of people did die of flu and they were properly classified, that means Covid deaths were counted correctly unless you are saying many folks who classified as having died of non-Covid/non-flu were actually Covid. I'm not sure the numbers you are seeing could support such errors. But like I asked, show your work. How many deaths in 2019, in 2020, expected in 2020 (how is that calculated), and what 2020 deaths do you think weren't counted as Covid that should have been.

It's not hard to find studies measuring excess deaths over the past year. Looks like there are approximately 110,000 (plus or minus 50,000) excess deaths in the United States not directly attributed to COVID-19. There wasn't a whole lot of testing going on during the first few months of the pandemic, so it shouldn't be at all surprising that we missed some deaths, particularly with some states refusing to report deaths as being caused by COVID without a confirmed positive test.

It's certainly not the case that flu deaths were erroneously counted as COVID. That's about as likely as incorrectly attributing a death by electrocution to being hit by a car. They're simply different diseases with different presentations. --Bob

[BackInTex]

Given the disparity in 2020 between expected deaths and actual deaths in the United States, it's much more likely that we significantly undercounted deaths caused by COVID-19 than that we overcounted them. Particularly since we pretty much didn't have a flu season, thus removing a source that usually results in a few tens of thousands of deaths annually. --Bob

Please show your work. You seem to be contradicting yourself. The fact we "didn't have a flu season" that usually results in 10s of thousands of deaths could be because most flu deaths were counted as Covid. However, let's say only a handful of people did die of flu and they were properly classified, that means Covid deaths were counted correctly unless you are saying many folks who classified as having died of non-Covid/non-flu were actually Covid. I'm not sure the numbers you are seeing could support such errors. But like I asked, show your work. How many deaths in 2019, in 2020, expected in 2020 (how is that calculated), and what 2020 deaths do you think weren't counted as Covid that should have been.

It's not hard to find studies measuring excess deaths over the past year. Looks like there are approximately 110,000 (plus or minus 50,000) excess deaths in the United States not directly attributed to COVID-19. There wasn't a whole lot of testing going on during the first few months of the pandemic, so it shouldn't be at all surprising that we missed some deaths, particularly with some states refusing to report deaths as being caused by COVID without a confirmed positive test.

It's certainly not the case that flu deaths were erroneously counted as COVID. That's about as likely as incorrectly attributing a death by electrocution to being hit by a car. They're simply different diseases with different presentations. --Bob

If deaths by Covid were misdiagnosed, but not as the flu, then what were they diagnosed as? That's a lot pneumonia to be misdiagnosed. I'd attribute your excess deaths, if there really are any as these are just estimations, to lack of medical care for life threating and even what should have been non-life threatening issues. Remember, they shut down hospitals for everything but Covid. The shut down doctors' offices. People died because of the panic and lack of medical care. And then there is the increase in suicides. Again, deaths due to the panic, not the disease.