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Re: It's cold
Posted: Wed Feb 17, 2021 6:11 pm
by mrkelley23
BackInTex wrote: ↑Wed Feb 17, 2021 2:58 pm
Spock wrote: ↑Wed Feb 17, 2021 2:22 pm
At this point, everybody seems to be focused on the generation side of things. As that gets taken care of, I wonder how many transmission (ie last mile) problems will show up. Broken transmission lines and so forth.
I don't know how it works for Investor owned utilities, but all the rural electric cooperatives in the country use the same equipment and supplies so that crews from a Co-op in Maine can go help with hurricane damage in Mississippi (for example) and fit right in with helping out.
I imagine there are calls out to the rural co-ops across the country to start putting crews together to help out in Texas.
With all the broken water lines and so forth, it might be a slower than expected process to get power on-simply in the interests of safety.
My company
Builds wind farms
Build transmission lines
Builds natural gas pipelines
Builds oil pipelines
My group within my company builds and maintains electric and natural gas distribution systems
I do kind of know what I talk about.
Texas is a huge cluster right now. But I hope they don’t change too much. It hurts now but we are fine.
If any urban planner tried to prepare for any emergency, especially the once-in-a-hundred years type, the city/state/county/whatever would be broke within ten years. What you try to do is plan for the average, try to cover the low end of the average, and hope that the outliers get covered some other way.
Re: It's cold
Posted: Wed Feb 17, 2021 6:38 pm
by Vandal
How cold is it?
Re: It's cold
Posted: Thu Feb 18, 2021 7:34 am
by Bob Juch
Proof that hell can freeze over.
Re: It's cold
Posted: Thu Feb 18, 2021 10:53 am
by silverscreenselect
Spock wrote: ↑Wed Feb 17, 2021 1:00 pm
However, having my own generator will do me some good.
Having your own generator is one thing for someone living in a rural area, especially for someone for whom a generator is a business necessity.
It's something else for people living in more heavily populated urban areas where generators are impractical or illegal (apartment dwellers). And the expense of spending several hundred dollars for a generator isn't something to be ignored either.
Our power was out for three days after a storm a couple of months back (the weather wasn't nearly as cold then). Our downstairs neighbors obtained a gas-powered generator from somewhere and set it up outside their unit. They had to run an extension cord at least 20 feet just to get it inside the closest window and who knows how much farther after that to provide power where they wanted. And, of course, having that unit going full time outside our windows one story up was quite noisy as well. Apparently, the generator violated the terms of their lease, so they have been advised not to try that again if there's another power outage.
Re: It's cold
Posted: Thu Feb 18, 2021 11:18 am
by BackInTex
The big thing around here are whole house generators. They run off natural gas and can power an entire home. They automatically fire up when power is lost. They run $10-12000 I’ve been told. That’s pretty expensive power for a few days need every few years.
Some wealthy friends of ours built a multi-million $ house and moved in late last year. They have one of course. But it didn’t work. They were pissed.
Re: It's cold
Posted: Thu Feb 18, 2021 11:19 am
by Spock
silverscreenselect wrote: ↑Thu Feb 18, 2021 10:53 am
Spock wrote: ↑Wed Feb 17, 2021 1:00 pm
However, having my own generator will do me some good.
Having your own generator is one thing for someone living in a rural area, especially for someone for whom a generator is a business necessity.
It's something else for people living in more heavily populated urban areas where generators are impractical or illegal (apartment dwellers). And the expense of spending several hundred dollars for a generator isn't something to be ignored either.
Our power was out for three days after a storm a couple of months back (the weather wasn't nearly as cold then). Our downstairs neighbors obtained a gas-powered generator from somewhere and set it up outside their unit. They had to run an extension cord at least 20 feet just to get it inside the closest window and who knows how much farther after that to provide power where they wanted. And, of course, having that unit going full time outside our windows one story up was quite noisy as well. Apparently, the generator violated the terms of their lease, so they have been advised not to try that again if there's another power outage.
TBH, I am absolutely gobsmacked that these large apartment complexes and many large government centers apparently don't have their own standby generators. I just took it as a given that they did.
Re: It's cold
Posted: Thu Feb 18, 2021 11:20 am
by BackInTex
Spock wrote: ↑Thu Feb 18, 2021 11:19 am
TBH, I am absolutely gobsmacked that these large apartment complexes and many large government centers apparently don't have their own standby generators. I just took it as a given that they did.
My m-i-l's memory care facility has huge backup generators. They used them this week.
Re: It's cold
Posted: Thu Feb 18, 2021 11:35 am
by silverscreenselect
Spock wrote: ↑Thu Feb 18, 2021 11:19 am
TBH, I am absolutely gobsmacked that these large apartment complexes and many large government centers apparently don't have their own standby generators. I just took it as a given that they did.
A large apartment building may well have its own backup generator, but most of the complexes here in Atlanta consist of a number of standalone buildings with a few units in each building. Our complex has about 20 buildings in it with two to twelve units in each (ours has four) and the power to each is independent. So the cost of installing and then running those generators would be somewhat high.
Re: It's cold
Posted: Thu Feb 18, 2021 11:46 am
by Spock
BackInTex wrote: ↑Thu Feb 18, 2021 11:20 am
Spock wrote: ↑Thu Feb 18, 2021 11:19 am
TBH, I am absolutely gobsmacked that these large apartment complexes and many large government centers apparently don't have their own standby generators. I just took it as a given that they did.
My m-i-l's memory care facility has huge backup generators. They used them this week.
As you said a couple of posts ago, a nat gas gen doesn't do much good in a system collapse like we saw this week. Mine is run by diesel with an attached 400-gallon tank. Obviously, that is not going to happen in a suburban environment.
However, a small portable gen would be suitable for any real life-threatening power outage situations in a suburban setting and in such a life-threatening situation it would be better to "Ask forgiveness than Beg Permission" afterwards from any homeowners associations and so forth.
Re: It's cold
Posted: Thu Feb 18, 2021 11:52 am
by Spock
silverscreenselect wrote: ↑Thu Feb 18, 2021 11:35 am
Spock wrote: ↑Thu Feb 18, 2021 11:19 am
TBH, I am absolutely gobsmacked that these large apartment complexes and many large government centers apparently don't have their own standby generators. I just took it as a given that they did.
A large apartment building may well have its own backup generator, but most of the complexes here in Atlanta consist of a number of standalone buildings with a few units in each building. Our complex has about 20 buildings in it with two to twelve units in each (ours has four) and the power to each is independent. So the cost of installing and then running those generators would be somewhat high.
There are things you give up when you choose to live in an apartment. One of these things is probably the ability to run your own small generator in a life-threatening power outage situation. Whereas, as I noted above, even a homeowner in a restrictive homeowner association could run a small gen and "Ask forgiveness" afterwards in a real life-threatening power-outage situation.
Re: It's cold
Posted: Thu Feb 18, 2021 12:57 pm
by Bob Juch
The data center I helped establish in Raleigh, NC, had a turbo-diesel generator with a fuel tank that held two weeks' worth of fuel. When we tested it, the neighbors for a mile around complained.
When I worked at SCE&G (SCANA) in Columbia, SC, we had a similar generator in the parking structure. That was right in the middle of the downtown area, adjacent to the best hotel. When we tested it, we had dozens of complaints too.
Here in the Tucson area, we don't worry about extended outages. I still have UPSes on every piece of electronics; I've never run one down.
If I were worried about power outages, I'd put in a Tesla Powerwall.
https://www.tesla.com/powerwall
Re: It's cold
Posted: Thu Feb 18, 2021 1:53 pm
by silverscreenselect
Spock wrote: ↑Thu Feb 18, 2021 11:52 am
There are things you give up when you choose to live in an apartment. One of these things is probably the ability to run your own small generator in a life-threatening power outage situation.
We were not in a life-threatening power outage situation, and I'm pretty sure our neighbors weren't either. We were in an our-food-in-the-refrigerator-may-spoil threatening situation.
Obviously, our situation wasn't nearly as bad as what's going on in Texas right now. But there are a lot of reasons why many people who live in suburban or urban areas can't or don't have portable generators. I was sitting out on our balcony reading while our neighbors got their generator operational. It took them about two hours to get it to run, and I'm sure they are a lot handier with equipment than I am (in fairness, I'm guessing they borrowed or bought a used one cheap that wasn't in great shape).
Re: It's cold
Posted: Thu Feb 18, 2021 10:05 pm
by tlynn78
BackInTex wrote: ↑Thu Feb 18, 2021 11:18 am
The big thing around here are whole house generators. They run off natural gas and can power an entire home. They automatically fire up when power is lost. They run $10-12000 I’ve been told. That’s pretty expensive power for a few days need every few years.
Some wealthy friends of ours built a multi-million $ house and moved in late last year. They have one of course. But it didn’t work. They were pissed.
My house came with a huge propane generator when I bought it, along with a 5 ft tall tank; luckily haven't needed it. Wish I could send it to y'all
Re: It's cold
Posted: Fri Feb 19, 2021 1:25 pm
by Bob Juch
Blame Enron and W. They're the ones who pushed for deregulation.
Re: It's cold
Posted: Fri Feb 19, 2021 6:21 pm
by Beebs52
Bob Juch wrote: ↑Fri Feb 19, 2021 1:25 pm
Blame Enron and W. They're the ones who pushed for deregulation.
It's always easy to blame if you have a playbook.
Re: It's cold
Posted: Mon Feb 22, 2021 1:03 pm
by BackInTex
According to a State Rep I heard on a talk show this morning, on Monday Feb 15th, during the peak of the energy shut down
97% of the 30,000 Mw capacity of our wind was down (only 3% was functioning)
Nuclear was down 27%
Coal energy production was up 47%
Natural Gas energy production was up 450%
I haven't found any source other than this State Rep talking. I'm not sure what 450% up means. What / when was the 100% measure taken?
Re: It's cold
Posted: Mon Feb 22, 2021 1:17 pm
by Bob78164
BackInTex wrote: ↑Mon Feb 22, 2021 1:03 pm
According to a State Rep I heard on a talk show this morning, on Monday Feb 15th, during the peak of the energy shut down
97% of the 30,000 Mw capacity of our wind was down (only 3% was functioning)
Nuclear was down 27%
Coal energy production was up 47%
Natural Gas energy production was up 450%
I haven't found any source other than this State Rep talking. I'm not sure what 450% up means. What / when was the 100% measure taken?
That claim isn't consistent with any of the information I've seen, albeit from afar. I'm glad you're approaching the claim with "show me" skepticism. --Bob
Re: It's cold
Posted: Mon Feb 22, 2021 2:45 pm
by BackInTex
Bob78164 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 22, 2021 1:17 pm
BackInTex wrote: ↑Mon Feb 22, 2021 1:03 pm
According to a State Rep I heard on a talk show this morning, on Monday Feb 15th, during the peak of the energy shut down
97% of the 30,000 Mw capacity of our wind was down (only 3% was functioning)
Nuclear was down 27%
Coal energy production was up 47%
Natural Gas energy production was up 450%
I haven't found any source other than this State Rep talking. I'm not sure what 450% up means. What / when was the 100% measure taken?
That claim isn't consistent with any of the information I've seen, albeit from afar. I'm glad you're approaching the claim with "show me" skepticism. --Bob
My initial post in this thread referenced data from Sunday, the day the storm began hitting north Texas. I'm sure generation metrics by fuel type change by the hour. I'd like to find a set of data that provides approved capacity, total capacity, and actual production by day for last week. By hour would be nice. The reason I include approved and total capacity is many of our plants have EPA throttles or perhaps it is a mix throttle, I don't know.
If I find something, I'll post here. I'm sending the radio host an email to see if he can provide a source of data to confirm his guest's statements.
Re: It's cold
Posted: Thu Mar 04, 2021 10:34 pm
by wbtravis007
BackInTex wrote: ↑Mon Feb 22, 2021 2:45 pm
Bob78164 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 22, 2021 1:17 pm
BackInTex wrote: ↑Mon Feb 22, 2021 1:03 pm
According to a State Rep I heard on a talk show this morning, on Monday Feb 15th, during the peak of the energy shut down
97% of the 30,000 Mw capacity of our wind was down (only 3% was functioning)
Nuclear was down 27%
Coal energy production was up 47%
Natural Gas energy production was up 450%
I haven't found any source other than this State Rep talking. I'm not sure what 450% up means. What / when was the 100% measure taken?
That claim isn't consistent with any of the information I've seen, albeit from afar. I'm glad you're approaching the claim with "show me" skepticism. --Bob
My initial post in this thread referenced data from Sunday, the day the storm began hitting north Texas. I'm sure generation metrics by fuel type change by the hour. I'd like to find a set of data that provides approved capacity, total capacity, and actual production by day for last week. By hour would be nice. The reason I include approved and total capacity is many of our plants have EPA throttles or perhaps it is a mix throttle, I don't know.
If I find something, I'll post here. I'm sending the radio host an email to see if he can provide a source of data to confirm his guest's statements.
Did you ever find out anything more about that?