Apology from a two-time voter for Donny

[Bob78164]

Here's what a two-time voter for Donny has to say.

I am writing to offer an apology. The short version is this: I severely underestimated the threat posed by a Donald Trump presidency. The never-Trumpers — who never seemed to stop issuing their warnings and critiques — struck me as psychologically and emotionally weak people with porcelain-fragile sensibilities. It turns out their instincts were significantly better attuned than my own.

Maybe some sanity is starting to return to the Republican Party. The Republican caucus of the California State Senate just ousted its pro-Donny Minority Leader, shortly after she tried to blame antifa for the January 6 insurrection.

On the other hand, the Arizona Republican Party appears to remain in thrall to Donny. --Bob

[silverscreenselect]

Here's what a two-time voter for Donny has to say.

I am writing to offer an apology. The short version is this: I severely underestimated the threat posed by a Donald Trump presidency. The never-Trumpers — who never seemed to stop issuing their warnings and critiques — struck me as psychologically and emotionally weak people with porcelain-fragile sensibilities. It turns out their instincts were significantly better attuned than my own.

Maybe some sanity is starting to return to the Republican Party. The Republican caucus of the California State Senate just ousted its pro-Donny Minority Leader, shortly after she tried to blame antifa for the January 6 insurrection.

On the other hand, the Arizona Republican Party appears to remain in thrall to Donny. --Bob

Articles like Baker's bring to mind the attitudes of many of the industrial elite in Germany in the early 1930s who felt that Hitler could be handled.

[Bob78164]

Here's what a two-time voter for Donny has to say.

I am writing to offer an apology. The short version is this: I severely underestimated the threat posed by a Donald Trump presidency. The never-Trumpers — who never seemed to stop issuing their warnings and critiques — struck me as psychologically and emotionally weak people with porcelain-fragile sensibilities. It turns out their instincts were significantly better attuned than my own.

Maybe some sanity is starting to return to the Republican Party. The Republican caucus of the California State Senate just ousted its pro-Donny Minority Leader, shortly after she tried to blame antifa for the January 6 insurrection.

On the other hand, the Arizona Republican Party appears to remain in thrall to Donny. --Bob

Articles like Baker's bring to mind the attitudes of many of the industrial elite in Germany in the early 1930s who felt that Hitler could be handled.

My point is, let's not pile onto those who are beginning to see the light, however belatedly. If the Republican Party is to return to sanity (and this country needs a sane second party to espouse conservative viewpoints), voices like Baker's will be essential to the process. --Bob

[kroxquo]

It would not not surprise me if even Mitch McConnell votes for conviction on the impeachment. He got one of his primary goals accomplished - a consevative judiciary branch - and now he wants his party back.

[silverscreenselect]

It would not not surprise me if even Mitch McConnell votes for conviction on the impeachment. He got one of his primary goals accomplished - a consevative judiciary branch - and now he wants his party back.

Right now, I count six Republican votes to convict: Romney, Murkowski, Collins, Sasse, Toomey, and Portman (who pretty much tipped his hand when he announced his retirement).

[Appa23]

It would not not surprise me if even Mitch McConnell votes for conviction on the impeachment. He got one of his primary goals accomplished - a consevative judiciary branch - and now he wants his party back.

Right now, I count six Republican votes to convict: Romney, Murkowski, Collins, Sasse, Toomey, and Portman (who pretty much tipped his hand when he announced his retirement).

I am not sure about Sasse. He is a strict constructionist usually.

[bazodee]

It would not not surprise me if even Mitch McConnell votes for conviction on the impeachment. He got one of his primary goals accomplished - a consevative judiciary branch - and now he wants his party back.

Right now, I count six Republican votes to convict: Romney, Murkowski, Collins, Sasse, Toomey, and Portman (who pretty much tipped his hand when he announced his retirement).

I am not sure about Sasse. He is a strict constructionist usually.

If Leahy is going to preside over the trial, there may be a fight whether to allow him to serve as a juror as well.

[Bob78164]

Right now, I count six Republican votes to convict: Romney, Murkowski, Collins, Sasse, Toomey, and Portman (who pretty much tipped his hand when he announced his retirement).

I am not sure about Sasse. He is a strict constructionist usually.

If Leahy is going to preside over the trial, there may be a fight whether to allow him to serve as a juror as well.

Who presides over other impeachment trials? --Bob

[Beebs52]

Who gives a rat's ass

[Bob Juch]

Who gives a rat's ass

My cat did once.

[jaybee]

I do.


Doesn't matter if anyone believes that Biden stole the election by marching millions of zombie liberals across state lines to vote, or if Hillary and her clan are prostituting children before eating their faces off or if Joe Biden has got dementia. Doesn't matter.

What does matter and is an undeniable fact is that a sitting President of the United States called for and encouraged a revolt by convincing his supporters that it was their patriotic duty to interfere with and stop a legal election process of our country. People died and many others will find that the legal ramifications of their actions will follow them for a long, long time. I believe that for the most part the people who stormed the Capitol on 1/6 are good, solid Americans who overreacted - I want to believe that most regret what happened a few weeks ago. But make no mistake, the President of the United States did know what he was doing, he did know what he was saying and he did know what could happen as the results of his words and influence. If for no other reason than that there must be consequences that ensure that this does not happen again.

In this country, our political and legal rulings are heavily based on prerequisites - as many in power have already commented, "If this is not an impeachable offense, then what is?" We let this one slide by and we may as well toss out our entire system of checks and balances out the window and accept the fact that we are merely another third-world country with more money and weapons than most.

And while I do think that it's important, it really doesn't matter that all this came about simply because our former President has such a frail and shallow ego that he would go to any extremes to keep the world from believing that he was a loser.

[bazodee]

I am not sure about Sasse. He is a strict constructionist usually.

If Leahy is going to preside over the trial, there may be a fight whether to allow him to serve as a juror as well.

Who presides over other impeachment trials? --Bob

The President of the Senate (Harris) presides over impeachment trials, except in the case of a {sitting} President. In the absence of the President of the Senate, the President pro tempore (Leahy} presides, according to Senate rules.

[Beebs52]

I think he should have resigned after the speech, knowing as any that that sort of crowd would have the capacity of weirdness. And, during certification of votes. Horrible.

But, tho I would never vote for him again, impeachment is stupid.

If Dems can't get him outta their brain they'll have a stroke, and keep crap rumbling long enough to cover Biden's frailty. Which may be the point.

[jaybee]

I agree that now that trump is out of office that there is a definite stupidness to impeachment but there are two results that should happen:

1. Prohibit trump from ever holding federal office again.
2. Recogintion from both parties that trumps actions or similar actions from a president in the future would result in impeachment and removal from office.

I don't think that anything short of impeachment will fill the bill.

Wonder how different the punitive phase of this would be had trump incited a similar riot on November 6th?

[silverscreenselect]

I don't think that anything short of impeachment will fill the bill.

Saying that we can't impeach and convict because Trump is no longer the President in essence says that the President can violate the laws with impunity in the last few days of his term.

And Republicans have Trump on the brain far more than Democrats do. Most of them are running scared for fear of upsetting him and getting primaried in 2022.

[BackInTex]

What does matter and is an undeniable fact is that a sitting President of the United States called for and encouraged a revolt by convincing his supporters that it was their patriotic duty to interfere with and stop a legal election process of our country.

Not only is it deniable, but it isn't even a fact. Did he encourage folks to make their voices known? Sure. Did he incite an insurrection? Not even close.

[silverscreenselect]

Did he incite an insurrection? Not even close.

So I guess that several thousand people independently and on their own on the spur of the moment came up with the idea to break down the Capitol doors and storm their way in.

[jaybee]

What does matter and is an undeniable fact is that a sitting President of the United States called for and encouraged a revolt by convincing his supporters that it was their patriotic duty to interfere with and stop a legal election process of our country.

Not only is it deniable, but it isn't even a fact. Did he encourage folks to make their voices known? Sure. Did he incite an insurrection? Not even close.

Seriously?

<Insert Koolaid drinking comment of your choice here>

<Insert 'Can't see the forest for the trees" comment here>

<Insert "Queen of denile" quote here>

[BackInTex]

Did he incite an insurrection? Not even close.

So I guess that several thousand people independently and on their own on the spur of the moment came up with the idea to break down the Capitol doors and storm their way in.

Provide the quotes from Trump that said "break down the Capitol doors and storm in". He he said that, I'll agree with you.

Who incited the folks to storm the SC during the Kavanaugh hearings?
Who incited the folks to storm the Portland Police Bureau's North Precinct?
Who incited the folks to burn down and loot businesses across the country last Summer?
Who incited Rene Boucher?
Who incited James Hodgkinson?

Real life SSS. Folks, especially mobs incite themselves.

Did Trump provide a spark? If encouraging folks to make their voices known, encouraging folks to exercise their 1st amendment rights, is incitement to riot, then I guess you're right. We should be more like North Korea.

[silverscreenselect]

Who incited the folks to storm the SC during the Kavanaugh hearings?
Who incited the folks to storm the Portland Police Bureau's North Precinct?
Who incited the folks to burn down and loot businesses across the country last Summer?
Who incited Rene Boucher?
Who incited James Hodgkinson?

Of course, absent from any of these "examples" are any instances of Democratic politicians or leaders stirring up the rioters mere minutes before the violence occurred. Or spreading completely unfounded allegations of fraud and rigged elections over and over again for two months leading up to the riot. And we have plenty of examples of the Capitol rioters saying that they believed that they were simply doing Trump's bidding.

[Spock]

Who incited the folks to storm the SC during the Kavanaugh hearings?
Who incited the folks to storm the Portland Police Bureau's North Precinct?
Who incited the folks to burn down and loot businesses across the country last Summer?
Who incited Rene Boucher?
Who incited James Hodgkinson?

Of course, absent from any of these "examples" are any instances of Democratic politicians or leaders stirring up the rioters mere minutes before the violence occurred. Or spreading completely unfounded allegations of fraud and rigged elections over and over again for two months leading up to the riot. And we have plenty of examples of the Capitol rioters saying that they believed that they were simply doing Trump's bidding.

Gather 'round children and I will tell you a tale of the old days (Summer 2020) when rioting and looting and burning and forcing the president to flee to safety was considered a good thing.

[silverscreenselect]

Gather 'round children and I will tell you a tale of the old days (Summer 2020) when rioting and looting and burning and forcing the president to flee to safety was considered a good thing.

Only in right wing fantasies that led to peaceful protestors being gassed so that Trump could have a photo op holding a Bible upside down.

And much of the "rioting and looting and burning" that took place occurred in very small areas (in Portland, it was about four small square blocks) with the same footage being recycled over and over again by right wing outlets to make it appear that the entire city was out of control.

Try fact checking the actual extent of the "riots" and you will find that most of this was wildly overblown by right wing media.

As an aside, in the Georgia runoff Senate elections, Perdue and Loeffler ran ad after ad especially targeting Raphael Wanock, but also Jon Ossoff, as dangerous radicals and claiming that the two Republicans were all that could save Georgia from the ravaging hordes. They wound up swinging votes about 200,000 in the direction of the Democrats in the runoffs. And if the Capitol riot had occurred before the election, I'm sure the Democratic margin of victory would have been even higher.

But keep singing that same "beware of radical leftists" tune and see how it plays. I'm sure our next governor, Stacey Abrams, will be glad to hear more of it.

[earendel]

But keep singing that same "beware of radical leftists" tune and see how it plays. I'm sure our next governor, Stacey Abrams, will be glad to hear more of it.

To be fair, the latest riots in Portland have been by antifa against Democratic Party headquarters.

[silverscreenselect]

It would not not surprise me if even Mitch McConnell votes for conviction on the impeachment. He got one of his primary goals accomplished - a consevative judiciary branch - and now he wants his party back.

Right now, I count six Republican votes to convict: Romney, Murkowski, Collins, Sasse, Toomey, and Portman (who pretty much tipped his hand when he announced his retirement).

I am not sure about Sasse. He is a strict constructionist usually.

The Senate today tabled a motion by Rand Paul to force a vote on the constitutionality of this impeachment. While it's a procedural vote, it might indicate how the Senate intends to vote on the actual impeachment, either on the grounds that the proceeding isn't constitutional or that Trump's actions weren't impeachable. The vote was 55-45, with Romney, Murkowski, Collins, Sasse, and Toomey joining the Democrats. So it looks like my hunch about Portman was wrong.

However, it's also possible that Mitch McConnell is going to let the trial play out to see just what other evidence the Democrats can produce about Trump's complicity in the entire affair.

Also, I have to wonder whether the Democrats would be better off finding an actual judge to preside over the trial. I understand why Roberts didn't want anything to do with this, but I would think that the Chief Judge of the DC Circuit or someone similar could be appointed as a special referee (and I don't know offhand the affiliation of that judge or who appointed him or her).

[jaybee]

Provide the quotes from Trump that said "break down the Capitol doors and storm in". He he said that, I'll agree with you.

And of course, you are absolutely correct, trump never said that. (To pull from some of the most common examples) He also didn't say, "Wear your military gear, and grab some zip tie cuffs as you storm inside the capitol" Or, "Kick in Pelosi's office door and pose for a photo op at her desk". Or, chant for his Vice President to be hunted down and hung. Or direct the mob to bash in the head of a police officer with a fire extinguisher. Or even acknowledge that a 'patriot' should wear a buffalo headdress. Nope, trump didn't say any of those things.

And if you think that means that he wasn't responsible for what ultimately happened on 1/6, you are fooling no-one but yourself.