The election irregularities as presented thus far

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Re: The election irregularities as presented thus far

#76 Post by silverscreenselect » Sun Dec 20, 2020 3:31 pm

According to Donald Trump, Senator David Perdue plans to challenge the electoral college vote when Congress convenes to officially ratify the decision. The only problem with this is that Perdue can't do that. Congress meets on January 6 and Perdue's term ends on January 3. The runoff election is January 5, but even if Perdue wins the runoff, that result won't be certified in one day. So, Georgia won't have a Senator from the period that Perdue's term ends until the winner of the election is certified. (Georgia's other Senator Kelly Loeffler was appointed by the governor and will serve until her successor is chosen. So she would be available to tote Trump's water for him if she so desires.)
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Re: The election irregularities as presented thus far

#77 Post by Bob Juch » Sun Dec 20, 2020 3:38 pm

silverscreenselect wrote:
Sun Dec 20, 2020 3:31 pm
According to Donald Trump, Senator David Perdue plans to challenge the electoral college vote when Congress convenes to officially ratify the decision. The only problem with this is that Perdue can't do that. Congress meets on January 6 and Perdue's term ends on January 3. The runoff election is on January 5, but even if Perdue wins the runoff, that result won't be certified in one day. So, Georgia won't have a Senator from the period that Perdue's term ends until the winner of the election is certified. (Georgia's other Senator Kelly Loeffler was appointed by the governor and will serve until her successor is chosen. So she would be available to tote Trump's water for him if she so desires.)
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Re: The election irregularities as presented thus far

#78 Post by jaybee » Sun Dec 20, 2020 7:53 pm

Perdue can't do that

That may be the case in the real world, but not in the world of Dementia Don.
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Re: The election irregularities as presented thus far

#79 Post by silverscreenselect » Mon Dec 21, 2020 12:49 pm

jaybee wrote:
Tue Dec 01, 2020 4:43 pm
Aaaannnnd - Ex Attorney General Barr in 5 - 4 - 3 - ....
Barr is heading out the door, but one of his last actions was to decline to appoint a special prosecutor to investigate either Hunter Biden (who is already under investigation by the IRS) and/or supposed election fraud. He also refused to seize the voting machines as some of Trump's supporters requested.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/12/21/politics ... index.html

And the 11th Circuit today uphold a Georgia District Court ruling denying David Perdue and Kelly Loeffler's challenge to the absentee voting procedures in the upcoming runoff election.
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Re: The election irregularities as presented thus far

#80 Post by silverscreenselect » Tue Dec 22, 2020 10:53 am

There is a new poll out of the Georgia runoffs from Survey USA, which is a highly regarded pollster. They show both Democrats, Ossoff and Warnock, with fairly hefty leads, but preface that by saying "Georgia is a hot mess and no opinion pollster could possibly say what will happen when votes are counted in 2 weeks." What's really interesting is the findings about who is likely to vote at all. Out of 691 registered voters, 78 (over 10%) said that they were either certain not to vote or unlikely to vote in the runoff. Of those, 30% said they weren't voting either because they felt the vote was rigged, they were intentionally boycotting, or that their vote didn't matter. The survey asked those voters if they did vote, who they would have voted for and those voters favored the Republicans over the Democrats by about 10 points in each race. Of course, some of these "the vote is rigged" people may vent their frustration and come back in the fold, but if they don't, that could have an impact on an election that rates to be very close.
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Re: The election irregularities as presented thus far

#81 Post by silverscreenselect » Mon Dec 28, 2020 4:38 pm

No, the election lawsuits are not over.

Louis Gohmert, Congressman from Texas, along with the Arizona electors who would have voted for Trump had he won the State, have filed suit in his home district against Mike Pence in his official capacity as President of the Senate, claiming that Pence is not obligated to accept the results of the Electoral College and can instead accept the votes of the plaintiffs and the other Trump electors in other challenge states. According to the lawsuit, Pence, as President of the Senate, has the authority under the 12th amendment to decide which of two competing slates of electors may be counted. Taking this position to its extreme, the sitting party would be able to stay in power forever by counting its electors in every state in every subsequent election.

That does raise an interesting question as to whether Pence is going to defend this lawsuit and, if so, how vigorously. To their credit, the election officials in Georgia and other closely contested states did fight the Trump lawsuits fully and aggressively, but if the Justice Department files a half-hearted response on behalf of Pence, would a court allow amicus intervention by Biden interests?

https://electioncases.osu.edu/wp-conten ... -Pence.pdf
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Re: The election irregularities as presented thus far

#82 Post by jaybee » Mon Dec 28, 2020 7:20 pm

So basically they are saying that there is no need - ever - for an election. Every four years just ask the current Vice President who he wants to be his boss for the next four years?
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Re: The election irregularities as presented thus far

#83 Post by earendel » Tue Dec 29, 2020 5:40 am

The lawsuit is before a Trump-appointed judge, for what that's worth (other such judges have thrown out previous lawsuits, but you never know). I also understand that Pence was considering a foreign diplomatic trip, leaving town after the results to avoid Trump's wrath.
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Re: The election irregularities as presented thus far

#84 Post by silverscreenselect » Fri Jan 01, 2021 11:37 pm

silverscreenselect wrote:
Mon Dec 28, 2020 4:38 pm
No, the election lawsuits are not over.

Louis Gohmert, Congressman from Texas, along with the Arizona electors who would have voted for Trump had he won the State, have filed suit in his home district against Mike Pence in his official capacity as President of the Senate, claiming that Pence is not obligated to accept the results of the Electoral College and can instead accept the votes of the plaintiffs and the other Trump electors in other challenge states. According to the lawsuit, Pence, as President of the Senate, has the authority under the 12th amendment to decide which of two competing slates of electors may be counted. Taking this position to its extreme, the sitting party would be able to stay in power forever by counting its electors in every state in every subsequent election.

That does raise an interesting question as to whether Pence is going to defend this lawsuit and, if so, how vigorously. To their credit, the election officials in Georgia and other closely contested states did fight the Trump lawsuits fully and aggressively, but if the Justice Department files a half-hearted response on behalf of Pence, would a court allow amicus intervention by Biden interests?

https://electioncases.osu.edu/wp-conten ... -Pence.pdf
The judge has dismissed the lawsuit on the grounds that Gohmert and the others lacked standing. Mike Pence's lawyers had previously requested that the case be dismissed.
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Re: The election irregularities as presented thus far

#85 Post by Bob78164 » Sat Jan 02, 2021 5:13 am

silverscreenselect wrote:
Fri Jan 01, 2021 11:37 pm
silverscreenselect wrote:
Mon Dec 28, 2020 4:38 pm
No, the election lawsuits are not over.

Louis Gohmert, Congressman from Texas, along with the Arizona electors who would have voted for Trump had he won the State, have filed suit in his home district against Mike Pence in his official capacity as President of the Senate, claiming that Pence is not obligated to accept the results of the Electoral College and can instead accept the votes of the plaintiffs and the other Trump electors in other challenge states. According to the lawsuit, Pence, as President of the Senate, has the authority under the 12th amendment to decide which of two competing slates of electors may be counted. Taking this position to its extreme, the sitting party would be able to stay in power forever by counting its electors in every state in every subsequent election.

That does raise an interesting question as to whether Pence is going to defend this lawsuit and, if so, how vigorously. To their credit, the election officials in Georgia and other closely contested states did fight the Trump lawsuits fully and aggressively, but if the Justice Department files a half-hearted response on behalf of Pence, would a court allow amicus intervention by Biden interests?

https://electioncases.osu.edu/wp-conten ... -Pence.pdf
The judge has dismissed the lawsuit on the grounds that Gohmert and the others lacked standing. Mike Pence's lawyers had previously requested that the case be dismissed.
I thought the basis of the ruling was that they sued the wrong defendant. --Bob
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Re: The election irregularities as presented thus far

#86 Post by silverscreenselect » Sat Jan 02, 2021 5:59 am

Bob78164 wrote:
Sat Jan 02, 2021 5:13 am
I thought the basis of the ruling was that they sued the wrong defendant. --Bob
From CNN:
Kernodle, who was nominated by Trump and confirmed in the Senate by voice vote in 2018, wrote that Gohmert "alleges at most an institutional injury to the House of Representatives. Under well-settled Supreme Court authority, that is insufficient to support standing." As for the group of Arizona Republicans, who claimed that Biden's electors in the state were unlawfully certified, Kernodle wrote that they "allege an injury that is not fairly traceable to the Defendant, the Vice President of the United States, and is unlikely to be redressed by the requested relief."
Gohmert and the others have already filed an appeal to the Fifth Circuit.
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Re: The election irregularities as presented thus far

#87 Post by Bob78164 » Sun Jan 03, 2021 12:06 am

silverscreenselect wrote:
Sat Jan 02, 2021 5:59 am
Bob78164 wrote:
Sat Jan 02, 2021 5:13 am
I thought the basis of the ruling was that they sued the wrong defendant. --Bob
From CNN:
Kernodle, who was nominated by Trump and confirmed in the Senate by voice vote in 2018, wrote that Gohmert "alleges at most an institutional injury to the House of Representatives. Under well-settled Supreme Court authority, that is insufficient to support standing." As for the group of Arizona Republicans, who claimed that Biden's electors in the state were unlawfully certified, Kernodle wrote that they "allege an injury that is not fairly traceable to the Defendant, the Vice President of the United States, and is unlikely to be redressed by the requested relief."
Gohmert and the others have already filed an appeal to the Fifth Circuit.
The Fifth Circuit (3-0, two Reagan appointees and one of Donny's appointees) has affirmed the District Court's ruling. --Bob
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Re: The election irregularities as presented thus far

#88 Post by SpacemanSpiff » Sun Jan 03, 2021 8:58 am

https://www.businessinsider.com/peter-n ... yed-2021-1

The latest attempt at a coup (and that's the only way these actions can now be described as) is from a group of senators led by Senator Cruz, who want an investigation into the election process, purportedly to show that it was legit and legal. This is described as a 10-day investigation.

However, their hand was tipped by Peter Navarro, a trade advisor for Mr. Trump, who stated on Fox News that if the investigation isn't completed in that time frame that the inauguration can be delayed, presumably until said investigation is complete. Obviously this goes against the Constitution, but that doesn't seem to matter to some folks.
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Re: The election irregularities as presented thus far

#89 Post by SpacemanSpiff » Sun Jan 03, 2021 12:40 pm

And here are some real irregularities. The audio speaks for itself.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... story.html
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Re: The election irregularities as presented thus far

#90 Post by Bob Juch » Sun Jan 03, 2021 1:12 pm

SpacemanSpiff wrote:
Sun Jan 03, 2021 12:40 pm
And here are some real irregularities. The audio speaks for itself.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... story.html
I was just going to post that. Mad King Donald should be prosecuted under Georgia law for his attempt to have the election results changed.
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Re: The election irregularities as presented thus far

#91 Post by silverscreenselect » Sun Jan 03, 2021 4:39 pm

Bob Juch wrote:
Sun Jan 03, 2021 1:12 pm
SpacemanSpiff wrote:
Sun Jan 03, 2021 12:40 pm
And here are some real irregularities. The audio speaks for itself.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... story.html
I was just going to post that. Mad King Donald should be prosecuted under Georgia law for his attempt to have the election results changed.
Since this is a federal election and there was an interstate phone call involved, the new U.S. Attorney here in Atlanta will have some business to take care of very soon.
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Re: The election irregularities as presented thus far

#92 Post by silverscreenselect » Sun Jan 03, 2021 6:50 pm

Trump suggested the Republicans could lose [Tuesday's Senate elections] if Raffensperger didn’t intervene on his behalf. “It’s going to have a big impact on Tuesday if you guys don’t get this thing straightened out fast,” said Trump. At another point in the conversation, he warned that a “lot of people aren’t going out to vote” in the runoffs to send a message to Raffensperger. “A lot of Republicans are going to vote negative because they hate what you did to the president.”
This is one time that I hope the Georgia voters do listen to Trump.
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Re: The election irregularities as presented thus far

#93 Post by silverscreenselect » Mon Jan 04, 2021 11:17 am

As former secretaries of defense, we hold a common view of the solemn obligations of the U.S. armed forces and the Defense Department. Each of us swore an oath to support and defend the Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic. We did not swear it to an individual or a party. American elections and the peaceful transfers of power that result are hallmarks of our democracy. With one singular and tragic exception that cost the lives of more Americans than all of our other wars combined, the United States has had an unbroken record of such transitions since 1789, including in times of partisan strife, war, epidemics and economic depression. This year should be no exception.

Our elections have occurred. Recounts and audits have been conducted. Appropriate challenges have been addressed by the courts. Governors have certified the results. And the electoral college has voted. The time for questioning the results has passed; the time for the formal counting of the electoral college votes, as prescribed in the Constitution and statute, has arrived.

As senior Defense Department leaders have noted, “there’s no role for the U.S. military in determining the outcome of a U.S. election.” Efforts to involve the U.S. armed forces in resolving election disputes would take us into dangerous, unlawful and unconstitutional territory. Civilian and military officials who direct or carry out such measures would be accountable, including potentially facing criminal penalties, for the grave consequences of their actions on our republic.

Transitions, which all of us have experienced, are a crucial part of the successful transfer of power. They often occur at times of international uncertainty about U.S. national security policy and posture. They can be a moment when the nation is vulnerable to actions by adversaries seeking to take advantage of the situation. Given these factors, particularly at a time when U.S. forces are engaged in active operations around the world, it is all the more imperative that the transition at the Defense Department be carried out fully, cooperatively and transparently. Acting defense secretary Christopher C. Miller and his subordinates — political appointees, officers and civil servants — are each bound by oath, law and precedent to facilitate the entry into office of the incoming administration, and to do so wholeheartedly. They must also refrain from any political actions that undermine the results of the election or hinder the success of the new team.

We call upon them, in the strongest terms, to do as so many generations of Americans have done before them. This final action is in keeping with the highest traditions and professionalism of the U.S. armed forces, and the history of democratic transition in our great country.
This letter to the Washington Post yesterday was signed by all ten living former Secretaries of Defense, including Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, and former Trump Secretaries Jim Mattis and Mark Esper. Six of the ten signees are Republicans. (Mattis is an independent.) That they would even think of having to send a letter like this is astonishing. The fact that it will do little good with anyone is even more astonishing.
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Re: The election irregularities as presented thus far

#94 Post by silverscreenselect » Mon Jan 04, 2021 1:54 pm

Trump has filed another lawsuit in federal court in Atlanta against Gov. Kemp and Sec. of State Raffensperger demanding that the court decertify the election results in Georgia, based on pretty much the same allegations of illegal votes that have been rejected in other Georgia lawsuits. There is a similar case pending in state trial court, but in the federal pleadings, Trump alleges that the state court is deliberately delaying a hearing. The federal court has scheduled a hearing for tomorrow.

One of the defenses that Trump's supporters have raised regarding the Saturday phone call to Raffensperger is that it was part of confidential settlement negotiations in regard to the pending state lawsuit, although nobody on the call says so, which would seem to be a prerequisite for such status. Of course it's hard to reconcile a statement asking Raffensperger to come up with 12,000 more votes as part of any legitimate settlement negotiations I've ever heard of.
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Re: The election irregularities as presented thus far

#95 Post by jaybee » Mon Jan 04, 2021 4:53 pm

I'm sure that it will eventually come out that trump was 'just being sarcastic'.
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Re: The election irregularities as presented thus far

#96 Post by silverscreenselect » Tue Jan 05, 2021 2:05 pm

The federal judge in Trump's latest Georgia lawsuit has denied his request for a preliminary injunction. No opinion has been issued as yet. For what it's worth, the judge on the case was appointed by Obama.
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Re: The election irregularities as presented thus far

#97 Post by silverscreenselect » Tue Jan 05, 2021 10:31 pm

Two sure predictions for tomorrow in Georgia:

1) Donald Trump will claim fraud.
2) There will be recounts in both elections.

and if either Democrat winds up on top:

3) There will be multiple lawsuits filed by Republicans alleging fraud and all sorts of other irregularities.
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Re: The election irregularities as presented thus far

#98 Post by Bob78164 » Tue Jan 05, 2021 11:13 pm

silverscreenselect wrote:
Tue Jan 05, 2021 10:31 pm
Two sure predictions for tomorrow in Georgia:

1) Donald Trump will claim fraud.
2) There will be recounts in both elections.

and if either Democrat winds up on top:

3) There will be multiple lawsuits filed by Republicans alleging fraud and all sorts of other irregularities.
The recount threshold is 0.5%, which I think works out to a difference of a little more than 20,000 votes. Rev. Warnock's lead is already bigger than that, and I understand that most of the remaining count is expected to be blue. --Bob
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Re: The election irregularities as presented thus far

#99 Post by silverscreenselect » Tue Jan 05, 2021 11:45 pm

Bob78164 wrote:
Tue Jan 05, 2021 11:13 pm
silverscreenselect wrote:
Tue Jan 05, 2021 10:31 pm
Two sure predictions for tomorrow in Georgia:

1) Donald Trump will claim fraud.
2) There will be recounts in both elections.

and if either Democrat winds up on top:

3) There will be multiple lawsuits filed by Republicans alleging fraud and all sorts of other irregularities.
The recount threshold is 0.5%, which I think works out to a difference of a little more than 20,000 votes. Rev. Warnock's lead is already bigger than that, and I understand that most of the remaining count is expected to be blue. --Bob
Most of the vote that's outstanding is in DeKalb, Fulton, and Chatham (Savannah). There are scattered votes left in Republican counties, but those are mostly in smaller counties and they are mail-in ballots that will trend more Democratic. There are also about 17,000 overseas and military votes that could count if they arrive by Friday. There are also about 7-8000 provisional ballots that will be counted and will trend Democratic but will undoubtedly be challenged. Any mail-in ballots that arrived today are yet to be counted. The term "mail-in" is a bit of a misnomer here, since people could drop these into drop boxes at different locations in the county up until 7:00 pm. (Mrs. SSS and I used a drop-box for our absentee ballots.)
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Re: The election irregularities as presented thus far

#100 Post by silverscreenselect » Wed Jan 06, 2021 12:53 am

Bob78164 wrote:
Tue Jan 05, 2021 11:13 pm
The recount threshold is 0.5%, which I think works out to a difference of a little more than 20,000 votes. Rev. Warnock's lead is already bigger than that, and I understand that most of the remaining count is expected to be blue. --Bob
About 1/3 of the outstanding DeKalb votes came in and went for Warnock and Ossoff by 90% (these are mail-in votes). These put Ossoff in the lead and extended Warnock's lead to about 1%. Most of the networks have now called the election for Warnock.
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