The election irregularities as presented thus far

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silverscreenselect
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Re: The election irregularities as presented thus far

#26 Post by silverscreenselect » Tue Nov 17, 2020 4:28 pm

Latest Georgia update:

Another 2700 uncounted votes turned up in Fayette County, which is iust south of Fulton County in the south Atlanta suburbs. This county favored Trump 53-46 out of 68000 votes cast. Both the Fayette and Floyd added votes reduced Biden's lead, which now stands at 12,900. Other than those two omissions, there were only minor discrepancies found, so the final total should be right around 13,000 for Biden.
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Re: The election irregularities as presented thus far

#27 Post by tlynn78 » Tue Nov 17, 2020 5:32 pm

I'm curious; how many 'discrepancies' are acceptable? And is the number the same if the candidates positions were reversed? I suspect I know the answer.. after all, voter fraud doesn't exists, right?
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Re: The election irregularities as presented thus far

#28 Post by Bob78164 » Tue Nov 17, 2020 5:39 pm

tlynn78 wrote:
Tue Nov 17, 2020 5:32 pm
I'm curious; how many 'discrepancies' are acceptable? And is the number the same if the candidates positions were reversed? I suspect I know the answer.. after all, voter fraud doesn't exists, right?
Discrepancies are inevitable, and at least one of the major discrepancies in Georgia came from a Republican-controlled county. They become problematic when they approach the size of the margin between the candidates.

The margin between the candidates in Geogria is around 13,000 votes. The discrepancies we're talking about changed the margin by hundreds of votes, not thousands. So they are not remotely close to a basis for calling into doubt the expressed will of the voters.

And if there were actual evidence of voter fraud, we'd have seen it in court by now. Donny hasn't presented it because he doesn't have any because it's not happening. Which is why his lawsuits keep getting tossed out of court. So I guess I should thank him for clearing up any remaining uncertainty about claims of voter fraud -- the most motivated candidate in history threw all of the resources of his presidential campaign and the Justice Department at an effort to find voter fraud, and they didn't come up with any. That's on top of the earlier effort that Kris Kobach tried to use as a springboard to the governor's mansion in Topeka. That's awfully good evidence that there wasn't any to find. --Bob
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Re: The election irregularities as presented thus far

#29 Post by silverscreenselect » Tue Nov 17, 2020 7:59 pm

Bob78164 wrote:
Tue Nov 17, 2020 5:39 pm
tlynn78 wrote:
Tue Nov 17, 2020 5:32 pm
I'm curious; how many 'discrepancies' are acceptable? And is the number the same if the candidates positions were reversed? I suspect I know the answer.. after all, voter fraud doesn't exists, right?
Discrepancies are inevitable, and at least one of the major discrepancies in Georgia came from a Republican-controlled county. They become problematic when they approach the size of the margin between the candidates.

The margin between the candidates in Geogria is around 13,000 votes. The discrepancies we're talking about changed the margin by hundreds of votes, not thousands. So they are not remotely close to a basis for calling into doubt the expressed will of the voters.

And if there were actual evidence of voter fraud, we'd have seen it in court by now. Donny hasn't presented it because he doesn't have any because it's not happening. Which is why his lawsuits keep getting tossed out of court. So I guess I should thank him for clearing up any remaining uncertainty about claims of voter fraud -- the most motivated candidate in history threw all of the resources of his presidential campaign and the Justice Department at an effort to find voter fraud, and they didn't come up with any. That's on top of the earlier effort that Kris Kobach tried to use as a springboard to the governor's mansion in Topeka. That's awfully good evidence that there wasn't any to find. --Bob
Floyd County is heavily Republican. Fayette County government is controlled by Republicans as well, although it is a lot closer than it used to be.

Again, the results shifted about 1,000 votes in Trump's election despite two pretty sizable discounts in Republican counties. That's a big different from the 13,000 by which Biden still leads. As for other discrepancies, you would expect five million machine scans to have an occasional error. Those have not affected the results so far. And, as Bob has said, there's been no evidence of fraud, unless you'd like to believe that officials in two Republican counties were responsible.
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Re: The election irregularities as presented thus far

#30 Post by Bob78164 » Tue Nov 17, 2020 8:06 pm

The two Republicans on the four-member canvassing board of Wayne County, Michigan, have refused to certify the County's results. Trying to throw out the people's votes is how coups begin. This must be stopped. --Bob
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Re: The election irregularities as presented thus far

#31 Post by SpacemanSpiff » Tue Nov 17, 2020 9:46 pm

Bob78164 wrote:
Tue Nov 17, 2020 8:06 pm
The two Republicans on the four-member canvassing board of Wayne County, Michigan, have refused to certify the County's results. Trying to throw out the people's votes is how coups begin. This must be stopped. --Bob
Evidently they quickly saw the error of their ways, or (more likely) couldn't stand the heat and publicity they got from their actions. They have now agreed to certify their part of Michigan's votes.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... story.html
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Re: The election irregularities as presented thus far

#32 Post by silverscreenselect » Tue Nov 17, 2020 10:46 pm

Christopher Krebs, the head of the Department of Homeland Security's Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency (the branch responsible for overseeing and ensuring election security) was fired by Trump today. His sin apparently was doing too good a job and sending out the following message:
The November 3rd election was the most secure in American history. Right now, across the country, election officials are reviewing and double checking the entire election process prior to finalizing the result...There is no evidence that any voting system deleted or lost votes, changed votes, or was in any way compromised.
That didn't fit in with Trump's conspiracy theories, which led to Krebs getting the boot.
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Re: The election irregularities as presented thus far

#33 Post by jaybee » Wed Nov 18, 2020 8:11 am

silverscreenselect wrote:
Tue Nov 17, 2020 10:46 pm
Christopher Krebs, the head of the Department of Homeland Security's Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency (the branch responsible for overseeing and ensuring election security) was fired by Trump today. His sin apparently was doing too good a job and sending out the following message:
The November 3rd election was the most secure in American history. Right now, across the country, election officials are reviewing and double checking the entire election process prior to finalizing the result...There is no evidence that any voting system deleted or lost votes, changed votes, or was in any way compromised.
That didn't fit in with Trump's conspiracy theories, which led to Krebs getting the boot.
At least he knew it was coming as he predicted that he'd be fired after releasing his statement. Our child-in-chief is nothing if not predictable.
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Re: The election irregularities as presented thus far

#34 Post by SpacemanSpiff » Wed Nov 18, 2020 12:32 pm

SpacemanSpiff wrote:
Tue Nov 17, 2020 12:04 pm
Bob78164 wrote:
Mon Nov 16, 2020 5:57 pm
Donny is outside recount range for every state except Georgia and, I think, Wisconsin, and last I checked he didn't make the necessary deposit to get a recount in Wisconsin. --Bob
I just saw that the price tag of the amount he'd have to front for a recount is $7.9 million. Somehow, I think he won't pony up the money (keeping those funds he raised for this purpose in his own hands instead), and continue to play the victim.
His campaign has wired in $3 million to the State of Wisconsin for partial recounts there -- specifically, the Democratic-leaning areas around Madison and Milwaukee. It certainly wouldn't make up enough to cover his shortfall there (about 20,000 or so votes), but all it'll take is a swing of less than 100 votes in his favor for him to scream "Aha! I was cheated!"
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Re: The election irregularities as presented thus far

#35 Post by silverscreenselect » Wed Nov 18, 2020 8:36 pm

The final results appear to be in. There were a total of about 6,000 ballots in four counties that weren't counted. The problem in Floyd County was ballots that weren't scanned. The problems in Fayette, Douglas, and Walton Counties was that the memory cards on which the ballots were recorded weren't entered into the final totals. The additional votes favored Biden in Douglas County and favored Trump in the other three counties. Trump picked up a net of about 1400 votes as a result, making the final total about 12,800 for Biden.

Georgia went to a new system this year with a different company that produced a paper record of every ballot cast (absentee ballots were paper to begin with). Obviously the system is flawed, and state officials are already in touch with the company that manufactures the machines to work on correcting them, hopefully by the Senate runoffs which should also be very closely contested. However, there was no fraud and three of the four counties where the irregularities occurred were governed by Republicans. Moreover, there is no evidence of votes being tabulated that weren't actually cast or of any sort of voter fraud.

The four counties involved were medium sized counties. None of the large counties that voted heavily for Biden found any irregularities.
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Re: The election irregularities as presented thus far

#36 Post by SportsFan68 » Wed Nov 18, 2020 9:25 pm

Colorado's county clerks are required to do a risk-limiting audit this week, and I helped with ours yesterday. We had to check only 75 ballots, so Denver must have had to do hundreds. What we do is get a list of ballots to check, usually including several ballots which had to be voted by hand by election judges. I won't bore you with the details -- ours came out 100% accurate, but we have to do it again tomorrow with different ballots anyway. Some of the counties didn't match because they pulled the wrong ballots to check.
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Re: The election irregularities as presented thus far

#37 Post by SpacemanSpiff » Thu Nov 19, 2020 7:14 am

SpacemanSpiff wrote:
Tue Nov 17, 2020 9:46 pm
Bob78164 wrote:
Tue Nov 17, 2020 8:06 pm
The two Republicans on the four-member canvassing board of Wayne County, Michigan, have refused to certify the County's results. Trying to throw out the people's votes is how coups begin. This must be stopped. --Bob
Evidently they quickly saw the error of their ways, or (more likely) couldn't stand the heat and publicity they got from their actions. They have now agreed to certify their part of Michigan's votes.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... story.html
And now they apparently have felt the heat from upstairs. The two individuals in question want to recant their certification votes.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2 ... -election/
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Re: The election irregularities as presented thus far

#38 Post by silverscreenselect » Thu Nov 19, 2020 8:00 am

SpacemanSpiff wrote:
Thu Nov 19, 2020 7:14 am
SpacemanSpiff wrote:
Tue Nov 17, 2020 9:46 pm
Bob78164 wrote:
Tue Nov 17, 2020 8:06 pm
The two Republicans on the four-member canvassing board of Wayne County, Michigan, have refused to certify the County's results. Trying to throw out the people's votes is how coups begin. This must be stopped. --Bob
Evidently they quickly saw the error of their ways, or (more likely) couldn't stand the heat and publicity they got from their actions. They have now agreed to certify their part of Michigan's votes.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... story.html
And now they apparently have felt the heat from upstairs. The two individuals in question want to recant their certification votes.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2 ... -election/
This is highly dangerous, uncharted territory we are entering. It's what happens in third world dictatorships. We're going beyond futile, frivolous lawsuits and recount requests that are ill-advised and hopeless but within the rights of Trump. Now, we are essentially asking local officials to ignore the results of a valid election because the other side won. The question I have is how long will it take some Republican with a set of cojones to speak out in public about this, because all they're doing is going off the record to reporters. There are still millions of people out there who think that Trump has been defrauded out of the election by the same nebulous conspiracy that's been behind all the other Democratic wrongdoing of the past four years or more, and they won't be changing their minds any time soon.

By the way, anyone remember the Durham investigation into the FBI? How's that coming along nowadays?
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Re: The election irregularities as presented thus far

#39 Post by jarnon » Thu Nov 19, 2020 9:54 am

silverscreenselect wrote:
Tue Nov 17, 2020 4:28 pm
Latest Georgia update:

Another 2700 uncounted votes turned up in Fayette County, which is iust south of Fulton County in the south Atlanta suburbs. This county favored Trump 53-46 out of 68000 votes cast. Both the Fayette and Floyd added votes reduced Biden's lead, which now stands at 12,900. Other than those two omissions, there were only minor discrepancies found, so the final total should be right around 13,000 for Biden.
Secretary Pompeo expressed support for free and fair elections and robust democracy in Georgia, and decried Russian interference.

He was on a trip to Central Asia.

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Re: The election irregularities as presented thus far

#40 Post by silverscreenselect » Thu Nov 19, 2020 11:28 am

SpacemanSpiff wrote:
Thu Nov 19, 2020 7:14 am
And now they apparently have felt the heat from upstairs. The two individuals in question want to recant their certification votes.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2 ... -election/
I wonder what the laws are in Michigan regarding election tampering.
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Re: The election irregularities as presented thus far

#41 Post by SpacemanSpiff » Thu Nov 19, 2020 11:37 am

silverscreenselect wrote:
Thu Nov 19, 2020 11:28 am
SpacemanSpiff wrote:
Thu Nov 19, 2020 7:14 am
And now they apparently have felt the heat from upstairs. The two individuals in question want to recant their certification votes.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2 ... -election/
I wonder what the laws are in Michigan regarding election tampering.
Since one of the tamperers is the Commander in Chief, according to one of the folks, that might be interesting.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2 ... -election/
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Re: The election irregularities as presented thus far

#42 Post by silverscreenselect » Thu Nov 19, 2020 1:12 pm

Donald Trump 11/19/20 wrote:Thousands of uncounted votes discovered in Georgia counties. When the much more important signature match takes place, the State will flip Republican, and very quickly. Get it done! ... Almost ZERO ballots rejected in Georgia this election. In years past, close to 4%. Not possible. Must have signature check on envelopes now. Very easy to do. Dems fighting because they got caught. Far more votes than needed for flip. Republicans must get tough!
Trump is at it again. In order to vote by mail in Georgia, I had to provide my drivers license number when I requested the ballot and they matched my signature on the outside envelope to what's on record. After that happens, they separate the inner envelope containing the ballot from the outer envelope with my signature. From that point on, there's no way to tell who I voted for. Trump wants a second check of the signatures which still wouldn't show which ballots any supposed mismatched signatures were for.

The results indicate that the process still had some kinks to work out (I am no fan of Raffensperger and missing 6,000 ballots doesn't reflect well on him or the counties involved). However, the recount wasn't needed to turn up this discrepancy. The normal audit that takes place would have shown that 6,000 more people voted that votes were tabulated and this would have led to the exact same investigation that occurred in those four counties. In almost every other county, the results were either an exact match to the initial count or within one or two votes, with random errors occurring in both directions.
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Re: The election irregularities as presented thus far

#43 Post by silverscreenselect » Thu Nov 19, 2020 4:47 pm

Two more interesting Georgia updates:

1) Floyd County, the first county where uncounted ballots were discovered, has fired its elections clerk. He had apparently also had unspecified problems in conducting the August runoff election here.

2) Local officials rejected 2,011 absentee ballots because of signature mismatches out of 1.3 million absentee ballots cast. That's a rate of 0.15%. it's also just about the same rate as absentee ballots were rejected in the 2018 general election.
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Re: The election irregularities as presented thus far

#44 Post by silverscreenselect » Thu Nov 19, 2020 7:47 pm

The final vote in Georgia has been certified, and Biden is the winner by 12,284. The recounts did move the vote another 500 in favor of Trump after the missing votes in the four counties were found. Of Georgia's 159 counties, 126 were within 10 votes of the original count and 54 matched exactly. The biggest error not previously reported was in Gwinnett County, which found another 1600 votes, favoring Trump by about 300. Control of the Gwinnett County government switched from Republican to Democrat in the 2018 election. Trump does have the right to request another machine recount.

A federal judge appointed by Trump has denied a request by attorney Lin Wood, filing as a plaintiff, to deny certification of the vote.
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Re: The election irregularities as presented thus far

#45 Post by SpacemanSpiff » Fri Nov 20, 2020 10:09 am

silverscreenselect wrote:
Thu Nov 19, 2020 11:28 am
I wonder what the laws are in Michigan regarding election tampering.
Some interesting info per this article:
https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/ ... ing-438538
Under Michigan law, any member of the Legislature who “corruptly” accepts a promise of some beneficial act in return for exercising his authority in a certain way is “forever disqualified to hold any public office” and “shall be guilty of a felony, punishable by imprisonment in the state prison not more than 10 years[.]”
Of course, that's under Michigan bribery statutes, and I think it's safe to say that won't be invoked -- else every public official involved in horse trading would be convicted.
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Re: The election irregularities as presented thus far

#46 Post by silverscreenselect » Sat Nov 21, 2020 6:30 pm

The latest Republican Hail Mary lawsuit in Pennsylvania, which sought to invalidate all the mail-in ballots, has been dismissed with prejudice by the judge. The judge specifically noted the lack of any factual evidence in support of the allegations. The suit claimed that the latest Pennsylvania law regarding mail-in voting procedures was unconstitutional and that all such ballots should be disqualified. The judge noted that plaintiff's attorneys had made numerous attempts to amend the pleadings, including, in the judge's words, "a rude and ill-conceived voicemail which distracted the Court's attention from the significant issues at hand."

The court said that both the Trump campaign and a couple of individual voter plaintiffs lacked standing to bring the suit. The two plaintiffs had their mail-in ballots invalidated because they failed to follow the correct procedure, but the counties where they lived (Republican counties) were not parties to the lawsuit. The court also noted that disqualifying all the votes would not cure any injury the plaintiffs might have suffered. As far as the Trump campaign was concerned, the court found that it had never alleged any actual injury it had suffered.

https://www.inquirer.com/news/pennsylva ... 01121.html

Game, set, and match in Pennsylvania.
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Re: The election irregularities as presented thus far

#47 Post by Bob78164 » Sat Nov 21, 2020 9:01 pm

silverscreenselect wrote:
Sat Nov 21, 2020 6:30 pm
The latest Republican Hail Mary lawsuit in Pennsylvania, which sought to invalidate all the mail-in ballots, has been dismissed with prejudice by the judge. The judge specifically noted the lack of any factual evidence in support of the allegations. The suit claimed that the latest Pennsylvania law regarding mail-in voting procedures was unconstitutional and that all such ballots should be disqualified. The judge noted that plaintiff's attorneys had made numerous attempts to amend the pleadings, including, in the judge's words, "a rude and ill-conceived voicemail which distracted the Court's attention from the significant issues at hand."

The court said that both the Trump campaign and a couple of individual voter plaintiffs lacked standing to bring the suit. The two plaintiffs had their mail-in ballots invalidated because they failed to follow the correct procedure, but the counties where they lived (Republican counties) were not parties to the lawsuit. The court also noted that disqualifying all the votes would not cure any injury the plaintiffs might have suffered. As far as the Trump campaign was concerned, the court found that it had never alleged any actual injury it had suffered.

https://www.inquirer.com/news/pennsylva ... 01121.html

Game, set, and match in Pennsylvania.
Senator Toomey, citing the decision by "a longtime conservative Republican whom I know to be a fair and unbiased jurist," has congratulated President-elect Biden and Vice President-elect Harris on their victory and urged Donny to cooperate with the transition.

Here's the Court's opinion. It's blistering.
Judge Brann wrote:Plaintiffs ask this Court to disenfranchise almost seven million voters. This Court has been unable to find any case in which a plaintiff has sought such a drastic remedy in the contest of an election, in terms of the sheer volume of votes asked to be invalidated. One might expect that when seeking such a startling outcome, a plaintiff would come formidably armed with compelling legal arguments and factual proof of rampant corruption, such that this Court would have no option but to regrettably grant the proposed injunctive relief despite the impact it would have on such a large group of citizens.

That has not happened. Instead, this Court has been presented with strained legal arguments without merit and speculative accusations, unpled in the operative complaint and unsupported by evidence. In the United States of America, this cannot justify the disenfranchisement of a single voter, let alone all the voters of its sixth most populated state.
--Bob
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Re: The election irregularities as presented thus far

#48 Post by silverscreenselect » Sat Nov 21, 2020 10:45 pm

Trump has requested a recount in Georgia which he has a right to under state law. Unlike the first recount, this will be a machine recount and shouldn't take very long. The results have already been certified by the governor. Again, Trump's attorneys asserted "illegal ballots" without offering any evidence.
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Re: The election irregularities as presented thus far

#49 Post by jaybee » Sun Nov 22, 2020 10:08 am

Trumps evidence is compelling and complete: Trump is never wrong and Trump never loses, therefore the election is wrong or rigged. In this case he can even prove that everyone agrees with him - as he heard it on OAN.

I did manage to find a clip of the moment Trump is told that he lost:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rge17TciHfU
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Re: The election irregularities as presented thus far

#50 Post by SpacemanSpiff » Sun Nov 22, 2020 5:25 pm

Bob78164 wrote:
Sat Nov 21, 2020 9:01 pm
silverscreenselect wrote:
Sat Nov 21, 2020 6:30 pm
The latest Republican Hail Mary lawsuit in Pennsylvania, which sought to invalidate all the mail-in ballots, has been dismissed with prejudice by the judge. The judge specifically noted the lack of any factual evidence in support of the allegations. The suit claimed that the latest Pennsylvania law regarding mail-in voting procedures was unconstitutional and that all such ballots should be disqualified. The judge noted that plaintiff's attorneys had made numerous attempts to amend the pleadings, including, in the judge's words, "a rude and ill-conceived voicemail which distracted the Court's attention from the significant issues at hand."

The court said that both the Trump campaign and a couple of individual voter plaintiffs lacked standing to bring the suit. The two plaintiffs had their mail-in ballots invalidated because they failed to follow the correct procedure, but the counties where they lived (Republican counties) were not parties to the lawsuit. The court also noted that disqualifying all the votes would not cure any injury the plaintiffs might have suffered. As far as the Trump campaign was concerned, the court found that it had never alleged any actual injury it had suffered.

https://www.inquirer.com/news/pennsylva ... 01121.html

Game, set, and match in Pennsylvania.
Senator Toomey, citing the decision by "a longtime conservative Republican whom I know to be a fair and unbiased jurist," has congratulated President-elect Biden and Vice President-elect Harris on their victory and urged Donny to cooperate with the transition.

Here's the Court's opinion. It's blistering.
Judge Brann wrote:Plaintiffs ask this Court to disenfranchise almost seven million voters. This Court has been unable to find any case in which a plaintiff has sought such a drastic remedy in the contest of an election, in terms of the sheer volume of votes asked to be invalidated. One might expect that when seeking such a startling outcome, a plaintiff would come formidably armed with compelling legal arguments and factual proof of rampant corruption, such that this Court would have no option but to regrettably grant the proposed injunctive relief despite the impact it would have on such a large group of citizens.

That has not happened. Instead, this Court has been presented with strained legal arguments without merit and speculative accusations, unpled in the operative complaint and unsupported by evidence. In the United States of America, this cannot justify the disenfranchisement of a single voter, let alone all the voters of its sixth most populated state.
--Bob
And, not surprisingly, he has appealed that ruling.

https://www.post-gazette.com/news/state ... 2011220197
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