The election irregularities as presented thus far

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SpacemanSpiff
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The election irregularities as presented thus far

#1 Post by SpacemanSpiff » Mon Nov 09, 2020 7:46 am

An interesting article in WaPo about the actual legal actions that the Trump Team have filed regarding election irregularities.

Many of these are just plain laughable, if not sad.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... story.html
...in the lawsuits themselves, even Trump’s campaign and allies do not allege widespread fraud or an election-changing conspiracy.

Instead, GOP groups have largely focused on smaller-bore complaints in an effort to delay the counting of ballots or claims that would affect a small fraction of votes, at best.

And, even then, they have largely lost in court.

The reason: Judges have said the Republicans did not provide evidence to back up their assertions — just speculation, rumors or hearsay. Or in one case, hearsay written on a sticky note.

The result has been a flurry of filings that Trump has cited as a reason to avoid conceding defeat — but, so far, have done nothing to prevent the defeat itself.
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Re: The election irregularities as presented thus far

#2 Post by Buffacuse » Mon Nov 09, 2020 10:51 am

You can always find a lawyer willing to do just about anything for a buck.

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Re: The election irregularities as presented thus far

#3 Post by a1mamacat » Mon Nov 09, 2020 11:29 am

Buffacuse wrote:
Mon Nov 09, 2020 10:51 am
You can always find a lawyer willing to do just about anything for a buck.
And for the Trump
lawyers, change that b to an f
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Re: The election irregularities as presented thus far

#4 Post by SpacemanSpiff » Mon Nov 09, 2020 12:52 pm

This gets even better. He appealed the Detroit case to the State of Michigan Court of Appeals in Lansing.

They sent it back to him as "defective." (I know, that's a legal term. But you'd think the lawyers involved would know what they needed for this step.)

The letter is included in this story:

https://www.wilx.com/2020/11/09/trump-c ... ng-ruling/
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Re: The election irregularities as presented thus far

#5 Post by gsabc » Mon Nov 09, 2020 5:40 pm

The documentation was probably collated by the same campaign worker who booked the Four Seasons press conference.
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Re: The election irregularities as presented thus far

#6 Post by silverscreenselect » Mon Nov 09, 2020 5:47 pm

Georgia Senators David Perdue and Kelly Loeffler, both of whom will be in runoff elections against Democratic opponents in January, are demanding that Republican Secretary of State Brad Raffensburger resign or be fired because of unspecified failures by him in the conduct of the election. Neither of them have produced any evidence of irregularities. Raffensperger said that his dismissal was not going to happen. As an elected Constitutional official, Raffensperger can't be fired by the governor or anyone. There is a recall provision for cause, which requires a petition signed by 15% of the State's registered voters followed by a recall election. There are also impeachment provisions, which are similar to those in the U.S. Constitution. Raffensperger's reply:
My job is to follow Georgia law and see to it that all legal votes, and no illegal votes, are counted properly and accurately. As secretary of state, that is my duty, and I will continue to do my duty. As a Republican, I am concerned about Republicans keeping the U.S. Senate. I recommend that Senators Loeffler and Perdue start focusing on that.
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Re: The election irregularities as presented thus far

#7 Post by SpacemanSpiff » Fri Nov 13, 2020 10:51 am

Buffacuse wrote:
Mon Nov 09, 2020 10:51 am
You can always find a lawyer willing to do just about anything for a buck.
And sometimes they pull out.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/election ... IU3IISA66M
A law firm representing Trump in his attempt to challenge the election count in Pennsylvania has withdrawn from the case.

Porter Wright Morris & Arthur said in a court motion filed late Thursday that attorneys Ronald L. Hicks Jr. and Carolyn B. McGee would no longer be representing Trump’s campaign in the case.

“Plaintiffs and Porter Wright have reached a mutual agreement that Plaintiffs will be best served if Porter Wright withdraws,” the attorneys said in their motion.

The firm said Trump’s campaign was “in the process of retaining” other attorneys to represent it. Linda A. Kerns, a Philadelphia attorney who is representing Trump in a flurry of lawsuits in the state’s courts, will remain on the case.

Several law firms representing Trump in his efforts to undermine the result in battleground states have come under pressure to drop the president as a client.

Trump’s federal lawsuit in Pennsylvania seeks an emergency injunction preventing state authorities from certifying the state’s election results. It alleges that hundreds of thousands of votes cast in Philadelphia and Pittsburgh are invalid because Trump’s campaign was unable to observe them being counted, which election officials deny.

Commonwealth Secretary Kathy Boockvar on Thursday asked the court to dismiss what she called Trump’s “desperate and unfounded attempt to interfere” with the election process.

“The voters of Pennsylvania have spoken,” attorneys for Boockvar said in a court filing.
I wonder if rumblings about repeated filing of frivolous lawsuits and resulting issues with keeping a law license have started to sink in.
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Re: The election irregularities as presented thus far

#8 Post by Bob78164 » Fri Nov 13, 2020 12:53 pm

SpacemanSpiff wrote:
Fri Nov 13, 2020 10:51 am
Buffacuse wrote:
Mon Nov 09, 2020 10:51 am
You can always find a lawyer willing to do just about anything for a buck.
And sometimes they pull out.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/election ... IU3IISA66M
A law firm representing Trump in his attempt to challenge the election count in Pennsylvania has withdrawn from the case.

Porter Wright Morris & Arthur said in a court motion filed late Thursday that attorneys Ronald L. Hicks Jr. and Carolyn B. McGee would no longer be representing Trump’s campaign in the case.

“Plaintiffs and Porter Wright have reached a mutual agreement that Plaintiffs will be best served if Porter Wright withdraws,” the attorneys said in their motion.

The firm said Trump’s campaign was “in the process of retaining” other attorneys to represent it. Linda A. Kerns, a Philadelphia attorney who is representing Trump in a flurry of lawsuits in the state’s courts, will remain on the case.

Several law firms representing Trump in his efforts to undermine the result in battleground states have come under pressure to drop the president as a client.

Trump’s federal lawsuit in Pennsylvania seeks an emergency injunction preventing state authorities from certifying the state’s election results. It alleges that hundreds of thousands of votes cast in Philadelphia and Pittsburgh are invalid because Trump’s campaign was unable to observe them being counted, which election officials deny.

Commonwealth Secretary Kathy Boockvar on Thursday asked the court to dismiss what she called Trump’s “desperate and unfounded attempt to interfere” with the election process.

“The voters of Pennsylvania have spoken,” attorneys for Boockvar said in a court filing.
I wonder if rumblings about repeated filing of frivolous lawsuits and resulting issues with keeping a law license have started to sink in.
They also have to worry about maintaining their ability to attract new associates. --Bob
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Re: The election irregularities as presented thus far

#9 Post by silverscreenselect » Fri Nov 13, 2020 1:28 pm

Trump campaign drops Arizona lawsuit requesting review of ballots

Money quote:
Earlier, the judge threw out paper and electronic affidavits the Trump campaign collected from voters after [Trump's attorney] acknowledged that some of the forms were "spam" and not legitimate voters. "Let me just clarify," Judge Daniel Kiley said to the Trump attorney. "Your solicitation of witnesses yielded some sworn affidavits that you yourself clearly determined are false and spam, as you phrased it?" "The ones that you couldn't prove are false you submitted to the court?" the judge said before granting the county's request to exclude the evidence.
More on this hearing:

Trump Campaign Lawyer Admits to Judge: Our Search for Evidence of Fraud Produced Obvious Lies and ‘Spam’
A Trump campaign attorney conceded in court on Thursday morning that he tried to enter hundreds of dodgy form-filed affidavits into evidence, even though their own investigation found that a subset of the sworn statements that they received were filled with lies and “spam.”

“This is concerning,” Judge Daniel Kiley, from Arizona’s Maricopa County, remarked with some understatement. “How is that a reliable process of gathering evidence?” the judge asked, later blocking admission of the so-called evidence.

The Trump campaign said it excluded the submissions of those who swore to lies, but they included the ones they could not prove were lying into evidence.
Judge Kiley replied that this did not show the remaining affidavits are trustworthy. “That just shows you cannot disprove what’s asserted,” Kiley noted.

The Trump campaign’s parade of witnesses hardly bolstered their case. When pressed by the Arizona Democratic Party’s counsel Daniel Arellano, each of the witnesses in turn conceded they did not know whether their vote was counted. “Do you have any basis to believe your vote wasn’t counted?” Arellano asked voter Mia Barcello. “Uh, I’m not sure,” Barcello replied with a laugh. When pressed about it further, Barcello replied: “No.”

Testimony by the Trump campaign’s expert witness took a turn to the absurd when Zack Alcyone, whose business bio boasts of his experience in “ballot access calculations,” conceded that he is the business partner of Langhofer, the lawyer who argued the president’s case all day. The website of the Phoenix-based software company Signafide lists them as co-founders.
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Re: The election irregularities as presented thus far

#10 Post by SpacemanSpiff » Fri Nov 13, 2020 4:11 pm

One might say that the Arizona suit had a nonzero amount of defective affidavits.
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Re: The election irregularities as presented thus far

#11 Post by silverscreenselect » Fri Nov 13, 2020 5:57 pm

The Trump campaign has had to close down its 800-line to report cases of voter fraud because of too many people calling in with prank calls (there's one circulating on Twitter in which the caller claims to have seen the Hamburgler).
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Re: The election irregularities as presented thus far

#12 Post by Bob78164 » Fri Nov 13, 2020 6:34 pm

Donny's campaign claimed that four Georgia voters had been dead for years. Investigation is continuing. At least two of them (according to their interviews) are indisputably alive. --Bob
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Re: The election irregularities as presented thus far

#13 Post by silverscreenselect » Fri Nov 13, 2020 10:23 pm

SpacemanSpiff wrote:
Fri Nov 13, 2020 10:51 am
Buffacuse wrote:
Mon Nov 09, 2020 10:51 am
You can always find a lawyer willing to do just about anything for a buck.
And sometimes they pull out.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/election ... IU3IISA66M
A law firm representing Trump in his attempt to challenge the election count in Pennsylvania has withdrawn from the case.

Porter Wright Morris & Arthur said in a court motion filed late Thursday that attorneys Ronald L. Hicks Jr. and Carolyn B. McGee would no longer be representing Trump’s campaign in the case.

“Plaintiffs and Porter Wright have reached a mutual agreement that Plaintiffs will be best served if Porter Wright withdraws,” the attorneys said in their motion.

The firm said Trump’s campaign was “in the process of retaining” other attorneys to represent it. Linda A. Kerns, a Philadelphia attorney who is representing Trump in a flurry of lawsuits in the state’s courts, will remain on the case.

Several law firms representing Trump in his efforts to undermine the result in battleground states have come under pressure to drop the president as a client.

Trump’s federal lawsuit in Pennsylvania seeks an emergency injunction preventing state authorities from certifying the state’s election results. It alleges that hundreds of thousands of votes cast in Philadelphia and Pittsburgh are invalid because Trump’s campaign was unable to observe them being counted, which election officials deny.

Commonwealth Secretary Kathy Boockvar on Thursday asked the court to dismiss what she called Trump’s “desperate and unfounded attempt to interfere” with the election process.

“The voters of Pennsylvania have spoken,” attorneys for Boockvar said in a court filing.
I wonder if rumblings about repeated filing of frivolous lawsuits and resulting issues with keeping a law license have started to sink in.
Well, there's always one attorney that Trump can count on.

Trump puts Giuliani in charge of election lawsuits
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Re: The election irregularities as presented thus far

#14 Post by silverscreenselect » Sat Nov 14, 2020 10:36 pm

The Georgia recount is proceeding fairly smoothly, with many of the small counties (who only had a few thousand votes to count maximum) finished. Meanwhile, Trump is sending out tweets, calling the recount a hoax and a sham and claiming that those counting the ballots aren't matching the signatures to the ballots. The only problem with that claim is that the absentee process isn't designed to do that and any process that did so would violate the secret ballot. Here in Georgia, the voter puts the completed ballot inside a sealed inner envelope that has no identifying markings on it. That inner envelope goes in an outer envelope that the voter signs. When the county receives the ballot, it matches the signature to the voter's signature on record. If they don't match, the voter can still correct the problem either by providing further documentation or by voting in person.

Trump has Newt Gingrich and Doug Collins (who lost the Senate election to Kelly Loeffler), claiming that the recount isn't fair without offering any proof. And the person whom they are criticizing is the Republican Secretary of State.

It wouldn't surprise me that in an election with almost five million votes cast, a recount will reveal some minor discrepancies. But in most cases, these discounts tend to balance each other out. The chances of a recount moving the vote some 14,000 votes in Trump's direction are minuscule.

It's times like this that I really miss having Flock here to defend the President and explain how all of his antics make sense.
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Re: The election irregularities as presented thus far

#15 Post by SpacemanSpiff » Mon Nov 16, 2020 10:34 am

Now the Trump group has cut back on their PA lawsuits.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... story.html
Trump’s attorneys filed a revised version of the lawsuit, removing allegations that election officials violated the Trump campaign’s constitutional rights by limiting the ability of their observers to watch votes being counted.
Follow the latest on Election 2020

Trump and Rudolph W. Giuliani, his personal attorney, have said repeatedly that more than 600,000 votes in Philadelphia and Pittsburgh should be invalidated because of this issue.

Trump’s pared-down lawsuit now focuses on allegations that Republicans were illegally disadvantaged because some Democratic-leaning counties allowed voters to fix errors on their mail ballots. Counties have said this affected only a small number of votes.

Cliff Levine, an attorney representing the Democratic Party in the case, said on Sunday evening that Trump’s move meant his lawsuit could not possibly change the result.
The more this goes on, the more I think this is more a money-grab for Mr. Trump and his new TrumpPAC (if he gives out money, he can call some shots in the Republican Party -- and call in favors later on, unless he blows it all on personal expenses.)

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Re: The election irregularities as presented thus far

#16 Post by silverscreenselect » Mon Nov 16, 2020 11:11 am

SpacemanSpiff wrote:
Mon Nov 16, 2020 10:34 am
Trump’s pared-down lawsuit now focuses on allegations that Republicans were illegally disadvantaged because some Democratic-leaning counties allowed voters to fix errors on their mail ballots. Counties have said this affected only a small number of votes.
A more plausible explanation is that red counties did not allow voters to correct errors on the ballots because they suspected that by so doing, it would favor Democrats. I highly doubt that anyone issued an edict saying which counties would and would not be allowed to do so. (Mail-in votes in red counties did favor Biden, although not by the 10-1 margins that occurred in Philadelphia.)

By the way, here in Georgia, voters could check on the status of their mail-in ballots online. The website indicated when the ballot was received and whether it was accepted or not. If a ballot was rejected (usually because the signature did not match closely enough), the voter could cure the defect by providing additional documentation or by voting in person, either early or election-day.
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Re: The election irregularities as presented thus far

#17 Post by silverscreenselect » Mon Nov 16, 2020 11:17 am

SpacemanSpiff wrote:
Mon Nov 16, 2020 10:34 am
The more this goes on, the more I think this is more a money-grab for Mr. Trump and his new TrumpPAC (if he gives out money, he can call some shots in the Republican Party -- and call in favors later on, unless he blows it all on personal expenses.)
Well, the people who are harmed by this are those gullible enough to believe Trump and are paying the price for it in their wallets. That's not as bad as the ones who are wheeled into intensive care still believing that they don't have the coronavirus because it's all a hoax. They keep saying that up to the time they get a tube shoved down their throat. And that's not as bad as the ones who will be harmed because Trump won't co-ordinate with Biden on the pandemic relief efforts over the next two months. (Although I have a gut feeling that there's a lot of leaks coming from people at the CDC and other places feeding Biden's team information.)
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Re: The election irregularities as presented thus far

#18 Post by SpacemanSpiff » Mon Nov 16, 2020 1:49 pm

Wisconsin lawsuits dropped by three voters claiming irregularities.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/pol ... 312034002/

Also similar suits in Michigan and Georgia were dropped. All three (plus the Pennsylvania one dropped today) were being handled by the same law firm, headed by James Bopp Jr.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/pol ... 312034002/

https://www.foxcarolina.com/news/politi ... _id=994019
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Re: The election irregularities as presented thus far

#19 Post by silverscreenselect » Mon Nov 16, 2020 3:56 pm

Failed candidate Doug Collins is a liar— but what’s new?
This quote about outgoing Rep. Doug Collins, who ran unsuccessfully for Kelly Loeffler's Senate seat, isn't surprising. What is surprising is that it came from fellow Republican Brad Raffensperger, the Secretary of State. Collins is heading up the Trump team in Georgia challenging the election results. Collins is expected to challenge either Gov. Brian Kemp or Kelly Loeffler in 2022 (Loeffler's remaining term is only two years).

The internecine strife here in Georgia among the Republicans is getting nasty, and if some of them stay home in January, that's got to help Democrats Jon Ossoff and Raphael Warnock in the runoff elections (there's a third runoff on the ballot as well, for one of the Public Service Commission seats). The State Democratic Party is already running with this:

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Re: The election irregularities as presented thus far

#20 Post by jaybee » Mon Nov 16, 2020 4:35 pm

SpacemanSpiff wrote:
Mon Nov 16, 2020 1:49 pm
Wisconsin lawsuits dropped by three voters claiming irregularities.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/pol ... 312034002/

Also similar suits in Michigan and Georgia were dropped. All three (plus the Pennsylvania one dropped today) were being handled by the same law firm, headed by James Bopp Jr.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/pol ... 312034002/

https://www.foxcarolina.com/news/politi ... _id=994019
Just in time for the next round of lawsuits - centering around ....... "The Recounts Are Rigged, The Recounts Are Rigged!!!"
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Re: The election irregularities as presented thus far

#21 Post by Bob78164 » Mon Nov 16, 2020 5:57 pm

jaybee wrote:
Mon Nov 16, 2020 4:35 pm
SpacemanSpiff wrote:
Mon Nov 16, 2020 1:49 pm
Wisconsin lawsuits dropped by three voters claiming irregularities.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/pol ... 312034002/

Also similar suits in Michigan and Georgia were dropped. All three (plus the Pennsylvania one dropped today) were being handled by the same law firm, headed by James Bopp Jr.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/pol ... 312034002/

https://www.foxcarolina.com/news/politi ... _id=994019
Just in time for the next round of lawsuits - centering around ....... "The Recounts Are Rigged, The Recounts Are Rigged!!!"
Donny is outside recount range for every state except Georgia and, I think, Wisconsin, and last I checked he didn't make the necessary deposit to get a recount in Wisconsin. --Bob
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Re: The election irregularities as presented thus far

#22 Post by silverscreenselect » Tue Nov 17, 2020 12:51 am

Bob78164 wrote:
Mon Nov 16, 2020 5:57 pm
Donny is outside recount range for every state except Georgia and, I think, Wisconsin, and last I checked he didn't make the necessary deposit to get a recount in Wisconsin. --Bob
The recount has turned up about 2600 votes in Floyd County that weren't counted originally. As I understand the problem, the ballots were scanned but the results were not totaled in with the rest of the county's votes. There were about 37,000 total votes cast in the county that were counted, so this means that about 7% of the votes in the county didn't get counted initially.

Floyd County (Rome) is in the middle of the 9th Congressional District which will be represented by Q-Anon fan Marjorie Greene. The county voted 70% for Trump, so he rates to pick up about 1,000 net additional votes there. However, Biden's lead was over 14,000 votes going into the recount. No other significant discrepancies have turned up yet.

This result certainly isn't good for the local election officials (the Secretary of State's office has quite rightly ordered an investigation), but these missing ballots occurred in a county with Republican officials in charge of the election and recount.
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Re: The election irregularities as presented thus far

#23 Post by T_Bone0806 » Tue Nov 17, 2020 11:29 am

silverscreenselect wrote:
Sat Nov 14, 2020 10:36 pm
It's times like this that I really miss having Flock here to defend the President and explain how all of his antics make sense.
I've held back asking this for a while now, but why do you keep calling Flock out, poking at him with a stick in an attempt to get a rise out of him? If he hasn't left this place altogether, then he obviously he not taking the bait. And really, to what purpose do these "debates" serve other than a forum for the two of you to hurl personal insults at each other?

Look, I agree with most of your opinions, and I'm not suggesting gathering around the campfire for a rousing rendition of Kumbaya, but maybe it would be preferable to state your opinions, offer your justifications for said opinions, and not try to provoke someone who is clearly not having any of it into resuming hostilities. Doing so only seems to indicate that you are more interested in a 3 pm schoolyard showdown than an actual debate. If he feels motivated to respond to points you've made, he will. Otherwise, perhaps it's better to continue your posts, and letting those who are inclined to respond with an opposing viewpoint do so.

Food for thought, with all due respect.
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Re: The election irregularities as presented thus far

#24 Post by SpacemanSpiff » Tue Nov 17, 2020 12:04 pm

Bob78164 wrote:
Mon Nov 16, 2020 5:57 pm
Donny is outside recount range for every state except Georgia and, I think, Wisconsin, and last I checked he didn't make the necessary deposit to get a recount in Wisconsin. --Bob
I just saw that the price tag of the amount he'd have to front for a recount is $7.9 million. Somehow, I think he won't pony up the money (keeping those funds he raised for this purpose in his own hands instead), and continue to play the victim.
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Re: The election irregularities as presented thus far

#25 Post by silverscreenselect » Tue Nov 17, 2020 1:38 pm

T_Bone0806 wrote:
Tue Nov 17, 2020 11:29 am
silverscreenselect wrote:
Sat Nov 14, 2020 10:36 pm
It's times like this that I really miss having Flock here to defend the President and explain how all of his antics make sense.
I've held back asking this for a while now, but why do you keep calling Flock out, poking at him with a stick in an attempt to get a rise out of him? If he hasn't left this place altogether, then he obviously he not taking the bait. And really, to what purpose do these "debates" serve other than a forum for the two of you to hurl personal insults at each other?

Look, I agree with most of your opinions, and I'm not suggesting gathering around the campfire for a rousing rendition of Kumbaya, but maybe it would be preferable to state your opinions, offer your justifications for said opinions, and not try to provoke someone who is clearly not having any of it into resuming hostilities. Doing so only seems to indicate that you are more interested in a 3 pm schoolyard showdown than an actual debate. If he feels motivated to respond to points you've made, he will. Otherwise, perhaps it's better to continue your posts, and letting those who are inclined to respond with an opposing viewpoint do so.

Food for thought, with all due respect.
You're right that part of my comments are an attempt to get FLock back here into the fray. But part of it is an honest desire to know how intelligent people can continue to support Trump despite all that's gone on. I'm not talking about the yahoos and the bigots, because he got over 70 million votes and most of that wasn't the far right fringe.

I have a friend who attended Georgia Tech with me years ago. He's a few years older because he served in Vietnam before enrolling, but we've kept in touch over the years. We talk a couple of times a week, usually about Tech and Atlanta sports. But shortly before the election, he mentioned that he was still supporting Trump and I found that surprising. Since the pandemic started, he and his wife (both of whom have health issues) have been pretty much locked at home. He hasn't been to a sitdown restaurant since March or gone to movies or other get together. He used to play duplicate bridge once or twice a week (I used to play as well before I got married). Obviously that's stopped as well. He has been to pick up take-out food about a dozen times. He used to be part of a weekly lunch group with several other retired men. He told me that they hadn't gotten together since then and he just learned that one of the members (who he said was in the best physical condition of all of them) died of COVID a couple of weeks ago. So, he takes this virus very seriously and has changed his entire lifestyle.

But he still supports Trump. And his reasoning goes that yes, Trump is an obnoxious jerk, but he's much better for the country than Biden. And I just can't see how someone who has been locked down for six months (much like Mrs. SSS and I have) feels this way. What usually happens is that we change the subject to something safe.

That's part of the reason for wanting Flock back. I'd really like to know what he feels now and how he will justify it if he still supports what Trump has done the last six months.
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