How Many Dead Kids Are There?

[Spock]

Prompted by Mr. Kelley's post in the online ed thread.

>>>"but a whole lot better than a bunch of dead kids, teachers, and grandparents."<<

If we are going to hyperbolize about a "bunch of dead kids" lets establish how many under 18's have died. Is it even a cause for concern?

Mr. Kelley. how many dead kids are there so far?

Presumably, most of the under 18's that have died have severe comorbidities-as with the aged they might have leukemia and so forth. Not good that they died-but for public policy purposes, is it really fair to count them in with previously healthy kids?

[mrkelley23]

I don't know if your English teacher ever taught you about compound predicates, but my sentence was, as you quoted, kids, teachers, and grandparents. Kids certainly seem to die less from this disease than from, say, the flu, but that doesn't mean they don't die, and they certainly can spread it. So far as I can tell, fewer than 100 children have died, but nearly 400,000 have tested positive, and that's before we open schools widely. As a teacher who is moderately high risk, this concerns me. I don't have any reliable numbers if deaths of teachers and grandparents, but I'm damn sure it's going to be higher than it should be. But you'll probably be okay, so by all means, be shitty about it.

[jaybee]

I would say that "one or more" would be cause for concern.

Just my own speculation but I'd expect that we'll see a lot of kids get sick, or become carriers without a high percentage of deaths. But the other people in those kids families is where it's really going to hit.

[Bob78164]

I don't know if your English teacher ever taught you about compound predicates, but my sentence was, as you quoted, kids, teachers, and grandparents. Kids certainly seem to die less from this disease than from, say, the flu, but that doesn't mean they don't die, and they certainly can spread it. So far as I can tell, fewer than 100 children have died, but nearly 400,000 have tested positive, and that's before we open schools widely. As a teacher who is moderately high risk, this concerns me. I don't have any reliable numbers if deaths of teachers and grandparents, but I'm damn sure it's going to be higher than it should be. But you'll probably be okay, so by all means, be shitty about it.

And we're starting to learn that the disease may cause significant long-term health effects such as cardiac damage even in those who don't show symptoms or whose symptoms are relatively mild. --Bob

[silverscreenselect]

I don't know if your English teacher ever taught you about compound predicates, but my sentence was, as you quoted, kids, teachers, and grandparents. Kids certainly seem to die less from this disease than from, say, the flu, but that doesn't mean they don't die, and they certainly can spread it. So far as I can tell, fewer than 100 children have died, but nearly 400,000 have tested positive, and that's before we open schools widely. As a teacher who is moderately high risk, this concerns me. I don't have any reliable numbers if deaths of teachers and grandparents, but I'm damn sure it's going to be higher than it should be. But you'll probably be okay, so by all means, be shitty about it.

And we're starting to learn that the disease may cause significant long-term health effects such as cardiac damage even in those who don't show symptoms or whose symptoms are relatively mild. --Bob

And that's it in a nutshell. Trump, Spock, and the like want to reduce coronavirus cases to two categories: dead or no big deal. Fortunately, the vast majority of those who contract the disease don't die. But I don't think that spending a month in intensive care with a ventilator tube down your throat is "no big deal." Nor are people who contracted the disease who still fell weak and run down months later "no big deal." We only have six months of "long term" data to work with, so there's no telling what the effects of the virus will be a year or two down the line.

And that's not to mention the growing number of coronavirus orphans out there... children who lose both of their parents to the disease. There was an article in the Atlanta Journal a few days back of a high school student who saw both his parents die within a few days of each other. He's going to go through the rest of his life blaming himself for that.

I really worry about the mess that Joe Biden is going to face when he takes office in January. The only world leader I know of who came in under these dire circumstances is Winston Churchill. Biden's not Churchill, and I just hope he's up to the challenge. I know for sure that Trump will just make things worse every single day he's in office.

And another thing that Spock brings up is that nonsense about co-morbidities. Yes, those who have co-mobordities are more likely to get seriously ill from the coronavirus. But the fact that someone has diabetes doesn't mean they are at death's door. People in the 21st century live for decades with many serious medical problems and proper treatment. Many of them die within days from the coronavirus. Spock mentions leukemia, but about 65-90% of children with leukemia survive at least five years, depending on the type of disease, and after five years, death or recurrence is rare.

[Spock]

Per CDC-45 American kids under 15 have died of Covid since Feb 1.

I presume that many (most?) of these 45 had severe comorbidities.

But, by all means keep trumpeting about "Bunches of dead kids" but keep in mind we have a current grand total of 45 under 15.

And sorry but "One death is too many" in a nation of 330 million people is not a rational public policy.

Where do you ever stop once you implement that standard?

Link to the CDC data.
https://data.cdc.gov/NCHS/Provisional-C ... /9bhg-hcku

[Bob Juch]

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6914e4.htm

[Bob78164]

Per CDC-45 American kids under 15 have died of Covid since Feb 1.

I presume that many (most?) of these 45 had severe comorbidities.

But, by all means keep trumpeting about "Bunches of dead kids" but keep in mind we have a current grand total of 45 under 15.

And sorry but "One death is too many" in a nation of 330 million people is not a rational public policy.

Where do you ever stop once you implement that standard?

Link to the CDC data.
https://data.cdc.gov/NCHS/Provisional-C ... /9bhg-hcku

Does this include the kids who died of some kind of inflammatory syndrome? --Bob

[mrkelley23]

Per CDC-45 American kids under 15 have died of Covid since Feb 1.

I presume that many (most?) of these 45 had severe comorbidities.

But, by all means keep trumpeting about "Bunches of dead kids" but keep in mind we have a current grand total of 45 under 15.

And sorry but "One death is too many" in a nation of 330 million people is not a rational public policy.

Where do you ever stop once you implement that standard?

Link to the CDC data.
https://data.cdc.gov/NCHS/Provisional-C ... /9bhg-hcku

For someone who likes to trumpet about all the books he's reading, you sure seem to have trouble comprehending words.

[kroxquo]

I don't know if your English teacher ever taught you about compound predicates, but my sentence was, as you quoted, kids, teachers, and grandparents. Kids certainly seem to die less from this disease than from, say, the flu, but that doesn't mean they don't die, and they certainly can spread it. So far as I can tell, fewer than 100 children have died, but nearly 400,000 have tested positive, and that's before we open schools widely. As a teacher who is moderately high risk, this concerns me. I don't have any reliable numbers if deaths of teachers and grandparents, but I'm damn sure it's going to be higher than it should be. But you'll probably be okay, so by all means, be shitty about it.

And we're starting to learn that the disease may cause significant long-term health effects such as cardiac damage even in those who don't show symptoms or whose symptoms are relatively mild. --Bob

And that's it in a nutshell. Trump, Spock, and the like want to reduce coronavirus cases to two categories: dead or no big deal. Fortunately, the vast majority of those who contract the disease don't die. But I don't think that spending a month in intensive care with a ventilator tube down your throat is "no big deal." Nor are people who contracted the disease who still fell weak and run down months later "no big deal." We only have six months of "long term" data to work with, so there's no telling what the effects of the virus will be a year or two down the line.

And that's not to mention the growing number of coronavirus orphans out there... children who lose both of their parents to the disease. There was an article in the Atlanta Journal a few days back of a high school student who saw both his parents die within a few days of each other. He's going to go through the rest of his life blaming himself for that.

I really worry about the mess that Joe Biden is going to face when he takes office in January. The only world leader I know of who came in under these dire circumstances is Winston Churchill. Biden's not Churchill, and I just hope he's up to the challenge. I know for sure that Trump will just make things worse every single day he's in office.

And another thing that Spock brings up is that nonsense about co-morbidities. Yes, those who have co-mobordities are more likely to get seriously ill from the coronavirus. But the fact that someone has diabetes doesn't mean they are at death's door. People in the 21st century live for decades with many serious medical problems and proper treatment. Many of them die within days from the coronavirus. Spock mentions leukemia, but about 65-90% of children with leukemia survive at least five years, depending on the type of disease, and after five years, death or recurrence is rare.

This from my daughter's blog and addresses the long term effects very eloquently (in my humble opinion)

https://www.janneke.photos/blog/on-terr ... LOyFwk2Vm4

[silverscreenselect]

Per CDC-45 American kids under 15 have died of Covid since Feb 1.

And how many parents and grandparents of those kids have died? And how many of those kids have become seriously ill? And how many of those kids will become seriously ill?

Looking at mortality statistics alone is not a rational public policy.

[silverscreenselect]

This from my daughter's blog and addresses the long term effects very eloquently (in my humble opinion)

https://www.janneke.photos/blog/on-terr ... LOyFwk2Vm4

Great post Krox, and there are several other good ones about the disease in the blog. I'm glad your daughter is doing as well as she is. Sadly, I've read too many similar stories from people who feel the effects months later, and I'd venture that the vast majority of victims aren't in anywhere near as good a physical condition as your daughter (not many have climbed Kilimanjaro).

Sadly, this reminds me of the people who were exposed to too much radiation in the early decades (including Marie Curie herself), who died years from cancer and other diseases years later from diseases they contracted as a result of that exposure. The only difference is that we didn't know better then; we know better now.

But according to Trump and Spock, they are no big deal and we can't make public policy on that basis.

[franktangredi]

You're right. Sentiment alone can't dictate public policy.

But is it necessary to sound like such a dick saying it?

Is it necessary to use terms such as "grand total" to make it clear that these are not human beings to you?

It's the same lack of empathy we've seen from Trump all along.

Per CDC-45 American kids under 15 have died of Covid since Feb 1.

I presume that many (most?) of these 45 had severe comorbidities.

But, by all means keep trumpeting about "Bunches of dead kids" but keep in mind we have a current grand total of 45 under 15.

And sorry but "One death is too many" in a nation of 330 million people is not a rational public policy.

Where do you ever stop once you implement that standard?

Link to the CDC data.
https://data.cdc.gov/NCHS/Provisional-C ... /9bhg-hcku

[silverscreenselect]

You're right. Sentiment alone can't dictate public policy.

But is it necessary to sound like such a dick saying it?

Is it necessary to use terms such as "grand total" to make it clear that these are not human beings to you?

It's the same lack of empathy we've seen from Trump all along.

Statistically speaking, the 3,000 people who died in 9/11 or the 2,000 people who died at Pearl Harbor were no big deal. We've never thought of them in that way.

[silverscreenselect]

And one other thing that Spock and Trump seem to have overlooked. One biiiiiig reason that there have been relatively few cases of the coronavirus among children is that we shut down schools in April in virtually every state. Children mostly stayed home where they wouldn't come in close contact with others (they don't go to bars and go to restaurants and stores far less often than adults do). On those occasions when children did come in contact with lots of other people, as in summer camps, there were major outbreaks.

So, keeping schools closed and socially distancing children worked once. Now, as with most of what we should have learned from our experience, Trump wants to chuck it all away. The irony, of course, is that his big reopening push didn't jumpstart the economy the way he claimed it would (anyone think we're going to have a booming third quarter anywhere except the stock market?). Trump's obsession with the economy to the exclusion of all else is what's finally bringing down the remnants of his presidency (I would call it a classic tragic flaw, except that he has so many other flaws besides).