Mount Rushmore: We All Know the Truth

[Spock]

We are not dumb people here. We all know the underlying truth behind the "Cancel Mount Rushmore" movement. It is not because Washington owned slaves or KKK ties of the sculptor or whatever argument will be thrown next at the wall to see if it sticks.

No, it is because it an important piece of Americana. Millions of Americans (of all political stripes) and countless tourists from around the world have visited it for decades.

It is one of the things that binds us together as a people and, for some reason, in this new dystopian future that is being built we can't have that.

If not actually destroyed, it has to be sullied, dirtied, demeaned with whatever means possible.

[jarnon]

There are fringe causes on both the left and right. I'd say nobody on the Bored, and few Americans, want to cancel Mount Rushmore and Hamilton.

Columbus is another matter. Hardly any positive accomplishments compared to the presidents on Rushmore, and much more negative. I'd prefer Juneteenth or Election Day to be an official holiday. Italian-Americans can still celebrate Columbus Day, as we observe St. Patrick's Day, Cinco de Mayo, etc.

[bazodee]

We are not dumb people here. We all know the underlying truth behind the "Cancel Mount Rushmore" movement. It is not because Washington owned slaves or KKK ties of the sculptor or whatever argument will be thrown next at the wall to see if it sticks.

No, it is because it an important piece of Americana. Millions of Americans (of all political stripes) and countless tourists from around the world have visited it for decades.

It is one of the things that binds us together as a people and, for some reason, in this new dystopian future that is being built we can't have that.

If not actually destroyed, it has to be sullied, dirtied, demeaned with whatever means possible.

I am sorry you live in such fear. Life really is more interesting and enjoyable if you let it be.

Most of us here are able to discern between hotheaded rhetoric (on all sides) and genuine issues that need to be sorted out. I fear that we, as a nation, are losing this capacity of discernment as we go to ur corners and look for evidence that supports our pre-conceived opinions.

On the matter of Columbus Day; let's get rid of it. There's no significant reason to honor him over anyone else. I've always thought it should be replaced with a day of reflection about Native American indigenous people. I don't object to Juneteenth other than it's crowded between two other Federal holidays in that neighborhood.

[wbtravis007]

We are not dumb people here. We all know the underlying truth behind the "Cancel Mount Rushmore" movement. It is not because Washington owned slaves or KKK ties of the sculptor or whatever argument will be thrown next at the wall to see if it sticks.

No, it is because it an important piece of Americana. Millions of Americans (of all political stripes) and countless tourists from around the world have visited it for decades.

It is one of the things that binds us together as a people and, for some reason, in this new dystopian future that is being built we can't have that.

If not actually destroyed, it has to be sullied, dirtied, demeaned with whatever means possible.

You weird.

To quote someone who would definitely be on my Mount Rushmore of favorite Bored posters:

Seek help now.

[silverscreenselect]

No, it is because it an important piece of Americana. Millions of Americans (of all political stripes) and countless tourists from around the world have visited it for decades.

People have been complaining about the imagery behind Mount Rushmore and the other unsavory aspects of the monument for decades and no one would listen. We all preferred the whitewashed version of American history we learned in grade school. It's only been since the Floyd killing that a lot more Americans are willing to listen to their grievances. Add to this the fact that Donald Trump is hellbent on using Mount Rushmore as a political tool for his re-election despite the major health risk and you've got it on the front burner.

I don't think the monument should come down. I do think the Confederate statues and monuments should come down. I do think that we need to put Mount Rushmore and the presidents in their proper historical perspective. And yes, Mrs. SSS and I will be watching Hamilton on Disney Plus this weekend. (Ironically, the touring show of Hamilton was scheduled to play in Atlanta the last week of March.)

[Spock]

https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/03/politics ... index.html

>>>"Activists point to other reasons to question Mount Rushmore's place in history: Gutzon Borglum, who created the sculpture, was aligned with the Ku Klux Klan."<<<

CNN, now do the founder of Planned Parenthood.

[silverscreenselect]

CNN, now do the founder of Planned Parenthood.

[Margaret Sanger] once lectured on birth control to the women's auxiliary of the Ku Klux Klan in Silver Lake, New Jersey. In her autobiography, she described the experience as "weird", and reported having the impression that the audience were all half-wits, and speaking in the simplest possible language, as if she were talking to children.

I'm sure that would make entertaining reporting for CNN. Is that the best you can do, Spock?

[Spock]

CNN, now do the founder of Planned Parenthood.

[Margaret Sanger] once lectured on birth control to the women's auxiliary of the Ku Klux Klan in Silver Lake, New Jersey. In her autobiography, she described the experience as "weird", and reported having the impression that the audience were all half-wits, and speaking in the simplest possible language, as if she were talking to children.

I'm sure that would make entertaining reporting for CNN. Is that the best you can do, Spock?

Start with the the Eugenics stuff..

But as an educated, knowledgeable political person, I assume you are well aware of her complicated, problematic background related to Eugenics and you won't have to Google her to cite the first thing that you find in 5 seconds that supports your case.

[silverscreenselect]

Start with the the Eugenics stuff..

You're right about one thing. I wasn't aware of just how much of a crusade fringe right wingers have made out of trying to tear down Margaret Sanger. But when you look at facts, including the high respect that Martin Luther King held Sanger in, most of this nonsense falls apart, pretty much like every half baked notion you bring up to try to find some false equivalency.

Sanger was indeed a believer in eugenics, but the basic concept that humanity could be improved by selective breeding was an article of faith for many in the years before World War II. Winston Churchill, Herbert Hoover, Theodore Roosevelt, George Bernard Shaw and H. G. Wells all supported the movement. African-American leader W. E. B. Du Bois backed many of its principles as well.

Although the eugenics movement included some who had racist ideas, wanting to create some sort of master race, "only a minority of eugenicists" ever believed this, according to Ruth Engs, professor emerita at the Indiana University School of Public Health and an expert in the movement. At the time that Sanger was active, Engs wrote, "the purpose of eugenics was to improve the human race by having people be more healthy through exercise, recreation in parks, marriage to someone free from sexually transmitted diseases, well-baby clinics, immunizations, clean food and water, proper nutrition, non-smoking and drinking."

It’s a far cry to equate eugenics with advocating the elimination of black people. For Sanger, her ideas were a matter a public health. As late as 1957, she put her views this way in an interview with Mike Wallace: "I think the greatest sin in the world is bringing children into the world -- that have disease from their parents, that have no chance in the world to be a human being practically. Delinquents, prisoners, all sorts of things just marked when they're born. That to me is the greatest sin -- that people can -- can commit."

Sanger was indeed a birth control activist, which means that she wanted women to be able to avoid unwanted pregnancies. She worked for women of all classes and races to have that choice, which she believed to be a right

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2 ... cans-shou/

[jaybee]

All politics and racial histories aside, the Truth about the Mt. Rushmore thing is that this has got to be the stupidest idea since .... The Arizona rally that recently happened. As I type this there are an estimated 7,500 people sitting crammed in next to each other waiting to watch a president speak and watch a fireworks show. No masks and certainly no social distancing. Just going purely on math and science it would take a miracle for there to not be a 100% chance that several in attendance are carrying the Covid-19 virus. No way to sugar-coat this - some of these people are going to get sick and some of them will pass Covid on to others who are smart enough to not attend an event like this.

It would be easy enough to arrange viewing of a fireworks event by spreading out the crowd. It would be easy enough for any speakers to be there 'live' yet project their image on multiple large screens so the audience could stay widely separated. But I guess that would require some common sense and genuine concern for the American public. There is just no way to spin this event to try to make it look like a good idea.

I don't post here very much - especially on political topics. I find that political opinions on internet message boards are a complete waste of time - no opinions are changed and all that's accomplished are lots of harsh words among this group of 'friends'. But I'm mad enough to have to say that a gathering like this has got to be the most stupid fucking idea possible. Capping off a week of ever increasing advancements of Covid, it's safe to say that we have reached a point where it would be a better plan for America to just do nothing at all. At this point, Our leadership is more of the problem than the cure.

As an aside: Several of the more populated counties in Tennessee enacted a mandatory face mask rule that went into effect this morning. I was at Krogers this afternoon getting groceries. I only counted four people who were not wearing a mask (in all fairness, I also saw 5-6 who were not wearing one correctly). Up until today, my informal poll of mask usage was around 20%-25%. We have the ability to fight this but it will take following the rules of science instead of politics to have any chance.

[silverscreenselect]

Spock must be so excited tonight. In the last two days, Donald Trump has validated all Spock's talking points on this Bored in the past three months:

"a merciless campaign to wipe out our history, defame our heroes, erase our values and indoctrinate our children,"
"angry mobs trying to tear down statues ... and unleash a wave of violent crime in our cities,"
"attack on our liberty, our magnificent liberty"
"protect our nation's children, end this radical assault and preserve the American way of life"
"a new far left fascism that demands absolute allegiance"
"our children are taught in school to hate their own country"
"their goal is not a better America. Their goal is to end America."
"This left-wing cultural revolution is designed to overthrow the American Revolution."
"we must protect and preserve our history, our heritage, and our great heroes"
"they are determined to tear down every statue, symbol and memory of our national heritage"
"You slander people much braver and more principled than you… You are dishonoring people fighting for freedom in the Civil War — you slander them."
"American heroes defeated the Nazis, dethroned the fascists, toppled the communists, saved American values, upheld American principles and chased down the terrorists to the very ends of the earth. We are now in the process of defeating the radical left, the Marxists, the anarchists, the agitators, the looters"
"We will not allow anyone to divide our citizens by race or background. We will not allow them to foment hate, discord and distrust"
"We will never allow an angry mob to tear down our statues, erase our history, indoctrinate our children or trample on our freedoms"
"We will safeguard our values, traditions, customs, and beliefs"
"The more you lie and demean and collude, the more credibility you lose. We want to bring the country together and a free and open media will make this task a very easy one."

and moving on to other topics:

"we've learned how to put out the flame [of the coronavirus]"
"the terrible plague from China"
"China will be held accountable"

At a time when you might expect to deliver a message of unity, Trump delivers possibly his two most hateful speeches ever on the Fourth of July.

[Bob Juch]

"You are dishonoring people fighting for freedom in the Civil War — you slander them."

This is trump's most troubling statement. He actually said his sympathies are with the Confederate traitors.

[Bob Juch]

Woman yells ‘go back to where you came from’ to Native American protesters at Mount Rushmore

https://deadstate.org/woman-yells-go-ba ... -rushmore/

[Bob78164]

Most of us here are able to discern between hotheaded rhetoric (on all sides) and genuine issues that need to be sorted out. I fear that we, as a nation, are losing this capacity of discernment as we go to ur corners and look for evidence that supports our pre-conceived opinions.

Regrettably, sometimes their inability to do so has real world consequences.

In 2017, rumors of an antifa event at the national park prompted a large group of armed militia members to show up. They encountered no one from antifa, but one of the armed militia members accidentally shot himself in the leg with a revolver.

. . . .

[Returning to the present.] A man had entered the cemetery wearing a Black Lives Matter T-shirt. The man, Trent Somes, later told The Post he was visiting the grave of an ancestor, not protesting. A seminarian and associate pastor at First United Methodist Church in Hanover, Pa., Somes said a crowd of about 50 people surrounded him and aggressively questioned him about his shirt.

“I didn’t do anything to them,” he said.

Police arrived and encouraged Somes to leave.

“For his own safety, federal law enforcement made the decision to remove him, and he was escorted out of the cemetery,” Jason Martz, acting public affairs officer for Gettysburg National Military Park, later said.

So in the name of using armed force to prevent a First Amendment activity that would have been perfectly legal, these freedom-hating locals actually prevented someone from paying respects to one of his ancestors. --Bob