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Re: Incompetence may have spread the virus

Posted: Thu Sep 23, 2021 7:46 am
by BackInTex
jaybee wrote:
Wed Sep 22, 2021 12:04 pm
I find myself on the fence for this one. Granted, any gathering of people in an enclosed space is caused for concern and for me personally - I do not think I would be comfortable in that kind of setting.

However: IF (a really big word there). IF they are really following and enforcing their guidelines then the room is full of either vaccinated people (with a possible but fairly small chance of carrying Covid) or people who have tested negative (with a virtually impossible chance of transmitting Covid at that time) then things SHOULD (another big word) be safe. These after all are the guidelines that came out last Spring and made sense to realistically get things moving again. A simple theory: If nobody in the room has Covid then nobody is going to get infected and it should be safe for all. If I knew that these guidelines were being followed and if I was up for an Emmy (Hahahahahaha) then I would probably go.

However #2: I don't think that there is any way that the above conditions were met - no proof of course, just being realistic. All that depends on how tightly things are being checked and how willing those going to the Emmys are to provide the proof needed of vaccine or test status. With a room full of big egos, lots of money and lots of power, some of them will slip through the net if they want to. All it takes are a few of the "I've already had Covid (even though I was never tested)" or the I've got my (fake) vaccine card right here along with a dose of "Do you realize who I am?" types and this changes from a contained safe environment to a tightly packed spreader event.

While the Emmys are a much smaller venue and a much more easily monitored event, these are the same makes-sense guidelines that were put in place last Spring (and promptly ignored by everyone). Which is why we have the shit-show that we have here in September 2021.

As for exposure - Yes, a big PR mistake. Even if it was totally safe there it's sending the wrong message.
I bolded and underlined "or people who have tested negative" because the accuracy of the testing is not 100%. I don't know the % of false negatives, but even at 1% (I'm sure it is higher) it means there is likely one infected person in a crowd of 300 (assuming a 66% vaccination rate, and the vaccinations are 100% effective). That one unmasked person could infect the other 99 unvaccinated and likely some of the vaccinated.

Now this is coming from someone who has made it known he is not that concerned with all of these protocols. But if you're going to push the narrative, as you said, the messaging at the Emmys was terrible.

Re: Incompetence may have spread the virus

Posted: Tue Oct 12, 2021 7:00 am
by silverscreenselect
Texas governor bans Covid vaccine mandates
Texas Gov. Greg Abbott on Monday issued an executive order banning all state entities, including private employers, from enforcing vaccine mandates, the latest escalation in the Republican's resistance to public health measures during the Covid-19 pandemic. The order states that "no entity in Texas" can enforce vaccination against anyone in the state who objects "for any reason of personal conscience, based on a religious belief, or for medical reasons, including prior recovery from COVID-19," according to a news release from the governor's office.

"The COVID-19 vaccine is safe, effective, and our best defense against the virus, but should remain voluntary and never forced," Abbott said in a statement.
Abbott also called on the Texas state Legislature to pass a law with the same effect. The executive order would be rescinded upon the passage of such legislation, the governor's office said.
So, Republicans and conservatives are supposed to support business and be against government interference and regulation, but he's now telling them what they can and cannot do to protect their customers and employees.

Re: Incompetence may have spread the virus

Posted: Tue Oct 12, 2021 7:46 am
by BackInTex
silverscreenselect wrote:
Tue Oct 12, 2021 7:00 am
Texas governor bans Covid vaccine mandates
Texas Gov. Greg Abbott on Monday issued an executive order banning all state entities, including private employers, from enforcing vaccine mandates, the latest escalation in the Republican's resistance to public health measures during the Covid-19 pandemic. The order states that "no entity in Texas" can enforce vaccination against anyone in the state who objects "for any reason of personal conscience, based on a religious belief, or for medical reasons, including prior recovery from COVID-19," according to a news release from the governor's office.

"The COVID-19 vaccine is safe, effective, and our best defense against the virus, but should remain voluntary and never forced," Abbott said in a statement.
Abbott also called on the Texas state Legislature to pass a law with the same effect. The executive order would be rescinded upon the passage of such legislation, the governor's office said.
So, Republicans and conservatives are supposed to support business and be against government interference and regulation, but he's now telling them what they can and cannot do to protect their customers and employees.
and Democrats are supposed to be anti-big business/pro employee and all "my body my choice"....Seinfeld 8:3

Re: Incompetence may have spread the virus

Posted: Tue Oct 12, 2021 7:50 am
by Bob Juch
silverscreenselect wrote:
Tue Oct 12, 2021 7:00 am
Texas governor bans Covid vaccine mandates
Texas Gov. Greg Abbott on Monday issued an executive order banning all state entities, including private employers, from enforcing vaccine mandates, the latest escalation in the Republican's resistance to public health measures during the Covid-19 pandemic. The order states that "no entity in Texas" can enforce vaccination against anyone in the state who objects "for any reason of personal conscience, based on a religious belief, or for medical reasons, including prior recovery from COVID-19," according to a news release from the governor's office.

"The COVID-19 vaccine is safe, effective, and our best defense against the virus, but should remain voluntary and never forced," Abbott said in a statement.
Abbott also called on the Texas state Legislature to pass a law with the same effect. The executive order would be rescinded upon the passage of such legislation, the governor's office said.
So, Republicans and conservatives are supposed to support business and be against government interference and regulation, but he's now telling them what they can and cannot do to protect their customers and employees.
Businesses can't mandate vaccinations, but nothing stops them from firing the unvaccinated.

Re: Incompetence may have spread the virus

Posted: Tue Oct 12, 2021 7:52 am
by Bob Juch
BackInTex wrote:
Tue Oct 12, 2021 7:46 am
silverscreenselect wrote:
Tue Oct 12, 2021 7:00 am
Texas governor bans Covid vaccine mandates
Texas Gov. Greg Abbott on Monday issued an executive order banning all state entities, including private employers, from enforcing vaccine mandates, the latest escalation in the Republican's resistance to public health measures during the Covid-19 pandemic. The order states that "no entity in Texas" can enforce vaccination against anyone in the state who objects "for any reason of personal conscience, based on a religious belief, or for medical reasons, including prior recovery from COVID-19," according to a news release from the governor's office.

"The COVID-19 vaccine is safe, effective, and our best defense against the virus, but should remain voluntary and never forced," Abbott said in a statement.
Abbott also called on the Texas state Legislature to pass a law with the same effect. The executive order would be rescinded upon the passage of such legislation, the governor's office said.
So, Republicans and conservatives are supposed to support business and be against government interference and regulation, but he's now telling them what they can and cannot do to protect their customers and employees.
and Democrats are supposed to be anti-big business/pro employee and all "my body my choice"....Seinfeld 8:3
Democrats aren't anti-big-business, we want to see them treat their employees right.

The reason for requiring vaccinations is to prevent other employees as well as customers from becoming infected.

Re: Incompetence may have spread the virus

Posted: Tue Oct 12, 2021 8:05 am
by silverscreenselect
Bob Juch wrote:
Tue Oct 12, 2021 7:52 am
The reason for requiring vaccinations is to prevent other employees as well as customers from becoming infected.
One of the reasons that our economy still hasn't fully recovered is that a lot of would-be customers still won't go out into environments they don't think are safe. And this Texas decision isn't helping in that regard.

Re: Incompetence may have spread the virus

Posted: Tue Oct 12, 2021 8:27 am
by BackInTex
silverscreenselect wrote:
Tue Oct 12, 2021 8:05 am
Bob Juch wrote:
Tue Oct 12, 2021 7:52 am
The reason for requiring vaccinations is to prevent other employees as well as customers from becoming infected.
One of the reasons that our economy still hasn't fully recovered is that a lot of would-be customers still won't go out into environments they don't think are safe. And this Texas decision isn't helping in that regard.
Because of the fear stoked by the media and, IMO, the inability for the average person to process information accurately for themselves.

U.S. Adults' Estimates of COVID-19 Hospitalization Risk

Re: Incompetence may have spread the virus

Posted: Tue Oct 12, 2021 9:11 am
by Bob78164
silverscreenselect wrote:
Tue Oct 12, 2021 8:05 am
Bob Juch wrote:
Tue Oct 12, 2021 7:52 am
The reason for requiring vaccinations is to prevent other employees as well as customers from becoming infected.
One of the reasons that our economy still hasn't fully recovered is that a lot of would-be customers still won't go out into environments they don't think are safe. And this Texas decision isn't helping in that regard.
Governor Abbott's decision made it easy for me to decide to cancel my plans to attend the Fall Nationals in Austin. I'm not attending a tournament where the organizers aren't allowed to confirm my opponents' vaccine status. --Bob

Re: Incompetence may have spread the virus

Posted: Tue Oct 12, 2021 10:23 am
by BackInTex
Bob78164 wrote:
Tue Oct 12, 2021 9:11 am
silverscreenselect wrote:
Tue Oct 12, 2021 8:05 am
Bob Juch wrote:
Tue Oct 12, 2021 7:52 am
The reason for requiring vaccinations is to prevent other employees as well as customers from becoming infected.
One of the reasons that our economy still hasn't fully recovered is that a lot of would-be customers still won't go out into environments they don't think are safe. And this Texas decision isn't helping in that regard.
Governor Abbott's decision made it easy for me to decide to cancel my plans to attend the Fall Nationals in Austin. I'm not attending a tournament where the organizers aren't allowed to confirm my opponents' vaccine status. --Bob
Well, you shouldn't be traveling anyway, increasing the risk of you infecting others outside your pod. So, thanks.

Re: Incompetence may have spread the virus

Posted: Tue Oct 12, 2021 11:23 am
by Bob78164
BackInTex wrote:
Tue Oct 12, 2021 10:23 am
Bob78164 wrote:
Tue Oct 12, 2021 9:11 am
silverscreenselect wrote:
Tue Oct 12, 2021 8:05 am
One of the reasons that our economy still hasn't fully recovered is that a lot of would-be customers still won't go out into environments they don't think are safe. And this Texas decision isn't helping in that regard.
Governor Abbott's decision made it easy for me to decide to cancel my plans to attend the Fall Nationals in Austin. I'm not attending a tournament where the organizers aren't allowed to confirm my opponents' vaccine status. --Bob
Well, you shouldn't be traveling anyway, increasing the risk of you infecting others outside your pod. So, thanks.
I'll pass along your regards to the hotel where I'm cancelling my stay because Texas's government won't let the business protect its customers the way it wants to. And to all of the Texas restaurants where I won't be eating because Texas's government won't let the businesses protect their customers the way they want to. And to the Uber drivers I won't be using because Texas's government won't let the company protect its customers the way it wants to. I guess my money will stay right here in California, or in some other, saner, vacation destination. --Bob

Re: Incompetence may have spread the virus

Posted: Tue Oct 12, 2021 11:29 am
by silverscreenselect
Bob78164 wrote:
Tue Oct 12, 2021 11:23 am
I'll pass along your regards to the hotel where I'm cancelling my stay. And to all of the Texas restaurants where I won't be eating. And to the Uber drivers I won't be using. I guess my money will stay right here in California, or in some other, saner, vacation destination. --Bob
Before I got married, I played duplicate bridge and traveled to several national and regional tournaments. I have some friends who still play, or more accurately, still played until the COVID pandemic. The conditions in many local clubs across the country is not the healthiest in this environment. I don't know what the conditions are at major tournaments today, but, based on what I remember from 40 years ago, I wouldn't want to sit in a room for 3-4 hours with hundreds of people around me, including dozens of unmasked strangers sitting right next to me and breathing in my face.

Re: Incompetence may have spread the virus

Posted: Tue Oct 12, 2021 11:35 am
by Beebs52
Bob78164 wrote:
Tue Oct 12, 2021 11:23 am
BackInTex wrote:
Tue Oct 12, 2021 10:23 am
Bob78164 wrote:
Tue Oct 12, 2021 9:11 am
Governor Abbott's decision made it easy for me to decide to cancel my plans to attend the Fall Nationals in Austin. I'm not attending a tournament where the organizers aren't allowed to confirm my opponents' vaccine status. --Bob
Well, you shouldn't be traveling anyway, increasing the risk of you infecting others outside your pod. So, thanks.
I'll pass along your regards to the hotel where I'm cancelling my stay because Texas's government won't let the business protect its customers the way it wants to. And to all of the Texas restaurants where I won't be eating because Texas's government won't let the businesses protect their customers the way they want to. And to the Uber drivers I won't be using because Texas's government won't let the company protect its customers the way it wants to. I guess my money will stay right here in California, or in some other, saner, vacation destination. --Bob
I'll pass along your concern to the many unmasked, unvaccinated visitors knocking at southern doors, 'kay?

Re: Incompetence may have spread the virus

Posted: Tue Oct 12, 2021 11:41 am
by Bob78164
Beebs52 wrote:
Tue Oct 12, 2021 11:35 am
Bob78164 wrote:
Tue Oct 12, 2021 11:23 am
BackInTex wrote:
Tue Oct 12, 2021 10:23 am
Well, you shouldn't be traveling anyway, increasing the risk of you infecting others outside your pod. So, thanks.
I'll pass along your regards to the hotel where I'm cancelling my stay because Texas's government won't let the business protect its customers the way it wants to. And to all of the Texas restaurants where I won't be eating because Texas's government won't let the businesses protect their customers the way they want to. And to the Uber drivers I won't be using because Texas's government won't let the company protect its customers the way it wants to. I guess my money will stay right here in California, or in some other, saner, vacation destination. --Bob
I'll pass along your concern to the many unmasked, unvaccinated visitors knocking at southern doors, 'kay?
Come talk to me when Governor Abbott issues an order barring businesses from imposing a shoes mandate. --Bob

Re: Incompetence may have spread the virus

Posted: Tue Oct 12, 2021 11:44 am
by silverscreenselect
Beebs52 wrote:
Tue Oct 12, 2021 11:35 am
I'll pass along your concern to the many unmasked, unvaccinated visitors knocking at southern doors, 'kay?
Please pass along your concern to those unmasked, unvaccinated visitors who come knocking at the doors of southern hospitals.

Re: Incompetence may have spread the virus

Posted: Tue Oct 12, 2021 11:59 am
by BackInTex
Beebs52 wrote:
Tue Oct 12, 2021 11:35 am
Bob78164 wrote:
Tue Oct 12, 2021 11:23 am
BackInTex wrote:
Tue Oct 12, 2021 10:23 am
Well, you shouldn't be traveling anyway, increasing the risk of you infecting others outside your pod. So, thanks.
I'll pass along your regards to the hotel where I'm cancelling my stay because Texas's government won't let the business protect its customers the way it wants to. And to all of the Texas restaurants where I won't be eating because Texas's government won't let the businesses protect their customers the way they want to. And to the Uber drivers I won't be using because Texas's government won't let the company protect its customers the way it wants to. I guess my money will stay right here in California, or in some other, saner, vacation destination. --Bob
I'll pass along your concern to the many unmasked, unvaccinated visitors knocking at southern doors, 'kay?
Knocking? Bob's choice for leadership is opening the doors for them and distributing them throughout the country.

But really, Bob doesn't care about Covid. If he did he'd be fighting the unfettered migration and distribution of the unvaccinated illegal immigrants throughout the country regardless of who's in charge. But he's not. It's not even on his radar.

Re: Incompetence may have spread the virus

Posted: Tue Oct 12, 2021 12:35 pm
by Bob78164
BackInTex wrote:
Tue Oct 12, 2021 11:59 am
Beebs52 wrote:
Tue Oct 12, 2021 11:35 am
Bob78164 wrote:
Tue Oct 12, 2021 11:23 am
I'll pass along your regards to the hotel where I'm cancelling my stay because Texas's government won't let the business protect its customers the way it wants to. And to all of the Texas restaurants where I won't be eating because Texas's government won't let the businesses protect their customers the way they want to. And to the Uber drivers I won't be using because Texas's government won't let the company protect its customers the way it wants to. I guess my money will stay right here in California, or in some other, saner, vacation destination. --Bob
I'll pass along your concern to the many unmasked, unvaccinated visitors knocking at southern doors, 'kay?
Knocking? Bob's choice for leadership is opening the doors for them and distributing them throughout the country.

But really, Bob doesn't care about Covid. If he did he'd be fighting the unfettered migration and distribution of the unvaccinated illegal immigrants throughout the country regardless of who's in charge. But he's not. It's not even on his radar.
So let me get this straight. You don't like the undocumented because you think they mooch off the benefits available in American society (even though they don't in fact receive those benefits because they're not eligible for them). But you think they deliberately avoid being vaccinated, even though it's free and no one asks any questions about their citizenship status.

Which is a long-winded way of saying that your factual claim is utter bullshit, enough so to convince me that those in right-wing media who are pushing the narrative are doing so from racist motives. The number of undocumented, vaccinated or not, is a drop in the bucket compared to the number of unvaccinated citizens, which I'm pretty sure is still over nine figures. As for your credulity for this obvious bullshit, I'll attribute that to motivated reasoning.

Let's put it this way. Texas has a considerable undocumented population. So if your thesis were correct, you should, at a minimum, be allowing businesses to impose a vaccine mandate as a way of excluding the undocumented and unvaccinated from participation in society. --Bob

Re: Incompetence may have spread the virus

Posted: Tue Oct 12, 2021 12:43 pm
by Beebs52
Bob78164 wrote:
Tue Oct 12, 2021 12:35 pm
BackInTex wrote:
Tue Oct 12, 2021 11:59 am
Beebs52 wrote:
Tue Oct 12, 2021 11:35 am
I'll pass along your concern to the many unmasked, unvaccinated visitors knocking at southern doors, 'kay?
Knocking? Bob's choice for leadership is opening the doors for them and distributing them throughout the country.

But really, Bob doesn't care about Covid. If he did he'd be fighting the unfettered migration and distribution of the unvaccinated illegal immigrants throughout the country regardless of who's in charge. But he's not. It's not even on his radar.
So let me get this straight. You don't like the undocumented because you think they mooch off the benefits available in American society (even though they don't in fact receive those benefits because they're not eligible for them). But you think they deliberately avoid being vaccinated, even though it's free and no one asks any questions about their citizenship status.

Which is a long-winded way of saying that your factual claim is utter bullshit, enough so to convince me that those in right-wing media who are pushing the narrative are doing so from racist motives. The number of undocumented, vaccinated or not, is a drop in the bucket compared to the number of unvaccinated citizens, which I'm pretty sure is still over nine figures. As for your credulity for this obvious bullshit, I'll attribute that to motivated reasoning.

Let's put it this way. Texas has a considerable undocumented population. So if your thesis were correct, you should, at a minimum, be allowing businesses to impose a vaccine mandate as a way of excluding the undocumented and unvaccinated from participation in society. --Bob
Second funniest post.

Re: Incompetence may have spread the virus

Posted: Tue Oct 12, 2021 1:16 pm
by BackInTex
Bob78164 wrote:
Tue Oct 12, 2021 12:35 pm
BackInTex wrote:
Tue Oct 12, 2021 11:59 am
Beebs52 wrote:
Tue Oct 12, 2021 11:35 am
I'll pass along your concern to the many unmasked, unvaccinated visitors knocking at southern doors, 'kay?
Knocking? Bob's choice for leadership is opening the doors for them and distributing them throughout the country.

But really, Bob doesn't care about Covid. If he did he'd be fighting the unfettered migration and distribution of the unvaccinated illegal immigrants throughout the country regardless of who's in charge. But he's not. It's not even on his radar.
Bob78164 wrote:
Tue Oct 12, 2021 12:35 pm
So let me get this straight. You don't like the undocumented because you think they mooch off the benefits available in American society (even though they don't in fact receive those benefits because they're not eligible for them). But you think they deliberately avoid being vaccinated, even though it's free and no one asks any questions about their citizenship status.
Both assertions are not only false but not based on anything I've ever said, nor logically related.

I never said nor remotely implied the illegal immigrants are avoiding getting vaccinated. They are avoiding getting arrested and deported.
Bob78164 wrote:
Tue Oct 12, 2021 12:35 pm
Which is a long-winded way of saying that your factual claim is utter bullshit, enough so to convince me that those in right-wing media who are pushing the narrative are doing so from racist motives. The number of undocumented, vaccinated or not, is a drop in the bucket compared to the number of unvaccinated citizens, which I'm pretty sure is still over nine figures. As for your credulity for this obvious bullshit, I'll attribute that to motivated reasoning.


Bob78164 wrote:
Tue Oct 12, 2021 12:35 pm
Let's put it this way. Texas has a considerable undocumented population. So if your thesis were correct, you should, at a minimum, be allowing businesses to impose a vaccine mandate as a way of excluding the undocumented and unvaccinated from participation in society. --Bob
Wrong. It's pretty simple. I don't want anyone legally visiting or legally living here to be excluded from participation in society. Where have I ever said or implied that?

On the other hand, it looks like you approve of the mandate for purposes other than health, which is confusing. No, not really confusing, concerning. We know the mandate isn't about health.

Re: Incompetence may have spread the virus

Posted: Tue Oct 12, 2021 2:30 pm
by Beebs52
"We know the mandate isn't about health"

Bulldozing much?

Re: Incompetence may have spread the virus

Posted: Tue Oct 12, 2021 4:36 pm
by tlynn78
Beebs52 wrote:
Tue Oct 12, 2021 2:30 pm
"We know the mandate isn't about health"

Bulldozing much?
Kind of need one with as much manure as was posted above.

Re: Incompetence may have spread the virus

Posted: Wed Oct 13, 2021 7:57 pm
by SportsFan68
silverscreenselect wrote:
Tue Oct 12, 2021 11:29 am
Bob78164 wrote:
Tue Oct 12, 2021 11:23 am
I'll pass along your regards to the hotel where I'm cancelling my stay. And to all of the Texas restaurants where I won't be eating. And to the Uber drivers I won't be using. I guess my money will stay right here in California, or in some other, saner, vacation destination. --Bob
Before I got married, I played duplicate bridge and traveled to several national and regional tournaments. I have some friends who still play, or more accurately, still played until the COVID pandemic. The conditions in many local clubs across the country is not the healthiest in this environment. I don't know what the conditions are at major tournaments today, but, based on what I remember from 40 years ago, I wouldn't want to sit in a room for 3-4 hours with hundreds of people around me, including dozens of unmasked strangers sitting right next to me and breathing in my face.
Our duplicate club requires vaccination, or you don't play. We've turned away two people. Here are the safety protocols for this November's ACBL Nationals:

Safety Protocols

In accordance with the city of Austin’s current safety requirements to minimize COVID-19 exposure and spread, face masks must be worn at all times in the tournament area. Additionally, participants of any NABC event must be fully vaccinated and will be required to show proof of their COVID-19 vaccine status. We will notify attendees at a later date with details on how to verify their vaccination status to ensure the verification process is as seamless as possible.

Re: Incompetence may have spread the virus

Posted: Thu Oct 14, 2021 4:08 am
by Estonut
Bob Juch wrote:
Tue Oct 12, 2021 7:52 am
The reason for requiring vaccinations is to prevent other employees as well as customers from becoming infected.
Oh, is there a new vaccine that prevents infection?

Re: Incompetence may have spread the virus

Posted: Thu Oct 14, 2021 7:01 am
by silverscreenselect
Estonut wrote:
Thu Oct 14, 2021 4:08 am
Bob Juch wrote:
Tue Oct 12, 2021 7:52 am
The reason for requiring vaccinations is to prevent other employees as well as customers from becoming infected.
Oh, is there a new vaccine that prevents infection?
Did you sleep through the first nine months of 2021?

Re: Incompetence may have spread the virus

Posted: Thu Oct 14, 2021 2:06 pm
by tlynn78
silverscreenselect wrote:
Thu Oct 14, 2021 7:01 am
Estonut wrote:
Thu Oct 14, 2021 4:08 am
Bob Juch wrote:
Tue Oct 12, 2021 7:52 am
The reason for requiring vaccinations is to prevent other employees as well as customers from becoming infected.
Oh, is there a new vaccine that prevents infection?
Did you sleep through the first nine months of 2021?
:lol: :lol: :lol:

Re: Incompetence may have spread the virus

Posted: Thu Oct 14, 2021 2:21 pm
by Bob78164
silverscreenselect wrote:
Thu Oct 14, 2021 7:01 am
Estonut wrote:
Thu Oct 14, 2021 4:08 am
Bob Juch wrote:
Tue Oct 12, 2021 7:52 am
The reason for requiring vaccinations is to prevent other employees as well as customers from becoming infected.
Oh, is there a new vaccine that prevents infection?
Did you sleep through the first nine months of 2021?
Estonut's point is that vaccinated people can still get infected. It's the usual semantic game that refuses to engage with the thrust of the argument, which is that unvaccinated people materially increase the risk to all of those around them, both vaccinated and unvaccinated. --Bob