Incompetence may have spread the virus

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Estonut
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Re: Incompetence may have spread the virus

#651 Post by Estonut » Fri Oct 15, 2021 12:21 am

Bob78164 wrote:
Thu Oct 14, 2021 2:21 pm
silverscreenselect wrote:
Thu Oct 14, 2021 7:01 am
Estonut wrote:
Thu Oct 14, 2021 4:08 am
Oh, is there a new vaccine that prevents infection?
Did you sleep through the first nine months of 2021?
Estonut's point is that vaccinated people can still get infected. It's the usual semantic game that refuses to engage with the thrust of the argument, which is that unvaccinated people materially increase the risk to all of those around them, both vaccinated and unvaccinated.
Please cite where I have "refused to engage with the thrust of the argument, which is that unvaccinated people materially increase the risk to all of those around them, both vaccinated and unvaccinated." If you can't, then please stop putting words in my mouth. You have already shown that you make lousy assumptions.

My ONLY point was that vaccinations are not guaranteed to prevent infections.
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Re: Incompetence may have spread the virus

#652 Post by silverscreenselect » Fri Oct 15, 2021 6:47 am

Estonut wrote:
Fri Oct 15, 2021 12:21 am
My ONLY point was that vaccinations are not guaranteed to prevent infections.
No one said that vaccinations were guaranteed to prevent infections. No medication is guaranteed to achieve any particular desirable result.

Bob J said that the reason for requiring vaccines was "to prevent other employees as well as customers from becoming infected." The dictionary definition of "prevent" is "to hinder or stop from doing something."

If you're going to play semantic games, at least be correct when you try to do so.
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Re: Incompetence may have spread the virus

#653 Post by Spock » Fri Oct 15, 2021 9:23 am

silverscreenselect wrote:
Fri Oct 15, 2021 6:47 am
Estonut wrote:
Fri Oct 15, 2021 12:21 am
My ONLY point was that vaccinations are not guaranteed to prevent infections.
No one said that vaccinations were guaranteed to prevent infections. No medication is guaranteed to achieve any particular desirable result.

Bob J said that the reason for requiring vaccines was "to prevent other employees as well as customers from becoming infected." The dictionary definition of "prevent" is "to hinder or stop from doing something."

If you're going to play semantic games, at least be correct when you try to do so.
Just remember-you guys are scared shitless of/ and want to reorder society for a cold bug with a 99.9 something percent survival rate.(even among the unvaccinated)

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Re: Incompetence may have spread the virus

#654 Post by silverscreenselect » Fri Oct 15, 2021 11:21 am

Spock wrote:
Fri Oct 15, 2021 9:23 am
Just remember-you guys are scared shitless of/ and want to reorder society for a cold bug with a 99.9 something percent survival rate.(even among the unvaccinated)
Polio had a 99.9 something percent survival rate too (and that's factoring in those who suffered serious permanent disabilities from it).
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Re: Incompetence may have spread the virus

#655 Post by earendel » Fri Oct 15, 2021 11:27 am

Spock wrote:
Fri Oct 15, 2021 9:23 am
silverscreenselect wrote:
Fri Oct 15, 2021 6:47 am
Estonut wrote:
Fri Oct 15, 2021 12:21 am
My ONLY point was that vaccinations are not guaranteed to prevent infections.
No one said that vaccinations were guaranteed to prevent infections. No medication is guaranteed to achieve any particular desirable result.

Bob J said that the reason for requiring vaccines was "to prevent other employees as well as customers from becoming infected." The dictionary definition of "prevent" is "to hinder or stop from doing something."

If you're going to play semantic games, at least be correct when you try to do so.
Just remember-you guys are scared shitless of/ and want to reorder society for a cold bug with a 99.9 something percent survival rate.(even among the unvaccinated)
I am sick and tired of hearing about a "cold bug with a 99.9 something percent survival rate". Try telling that to anyone who has lost a loved one. Try telling that to me, who lost a close friend because she believed the anti-vax propaganda, caught the virus, was hospitalized and put on a ventilator for four weeks and finally died, I can only presume from your callousness that you haven't had that experience, and I hope you never do.
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Re: Incompetence may have spread the virus

#656 Post by Bob78164 » Fri Oct 15, 2021 11:31 am

earendel wrote:
Fri Oct 15, 2021 11:27 am
Spock wrote:
Fri Oct 15, 2021 9:23 am
silverscreenselect wrote:
Fri Oct 15, 2021 6:47 am
No one said that vaccinations were guaranteed to prevent infections. No medication is guaranteed to achieve any particular desirable result.

Bob J said that the reason for requiring vaccines was "to prevent other employees as well as customers from becoming infected." The dictionary definition of "prevent" is "to hinder or stop from doing something."

If you're going to play semantic games, at least be correct when you try to do so.
Just remember-you guys are scared shitless of/ and want to reorder society for a cold bug with a 99.9 something percent survival rate.(even among the unvaccinated)
I am sick and tired of hearing about a "cold bug with a 99.9 something percent survival rate". Try telling that to anyone who has lost a loved one. Try telling that to me, who lost a close friend because she believed the anti-vax propaganda, caught the virus, was hospitalized and put on a ventilator for four weeks and finally died, I can only presume from your callousness that you haven't had that experience, and I hope you never do.
I'm sorry for your loss, ear. --Bob
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Re: Incompetence may have spread the virus

#657 Post by Beebs52 » Fri Oct 15, 2021 12:46 pm

I'm sorry Ear.
Well, then

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Re: Incompetence may have spread the virus

#658 Post by Bob Juch » Fri Oct 15, 2021 3:06 pm

Spock wrote:
Fri Oct 15, 2021 9:23 am
silverscreenselect wrote:
Fri Oct 15, 2021 6:47 am
Estonut wrote:
Fri Oct 15, 2021 12:21 am
My ONLY point was that vaccinations are not guaranteed to prevent infections.
No one said that vaccinations were guaranteed to prevent infections. No medication is guaranteed to achieve any particular desirable result.

Bob J said that the reason for requiring vaccines was "to prevent other employees as well as customers from becoming infected." The dictionary definition of "prevent" is "to hinder or stop from doing something."

If you're going to play semantic games, at least be correct when you try to do so.
Just remember-you guys are scared shitless of/ and want to reorder society for a cold bug with a 99.9 something percent survival rate.(even among the unvaccinated)
Your 99.9% survival rate is wrong:

https://apnews.com/article/fact-checking-970830023526

CLAIM: If you are unvaccinated, you can get COVID and have over 99% chance of survival. If you get vaccinated, you can STILL get COVID and will still have over 99% chance of survival.

AP’S ASSESSMENT: Missing context. On average about 98.2% of known COVID-19 patients in the U.S. survive, but each individual’s chance of dying from the virus will vary depending on their age, whether they have an underlying health condition and whether they are vaccinated. While people who are vaccinated can still get infected, these “breakthrough” cases are rare and vaccines dramatically reduce severe illness and death.

THE FACTS: As of July 23, there were more than 34.3 million known cases of COVID-19 in the United States and 610,370 deaths, according to data from Johns Hopkins University. That means the case fatality ratio -- or the portion of known cases that result in death in the country -- is 1.8%. In other words, on average, 98.2% of known COVID-19 patients in the U.S. survive. Because the true number of infections is much larger than just the documented cases, the actual survival rate of all COVID-19 infections is even higher than 98.2%.

A popular tweet this week, however, used the survival statistic without key context. “Unvaccinated, you can get COVID and have over 99% chance of survival. Get vaccinated and you can STILL get COVID and will still have over 99% chance of survival,” reads the tweet.

The message is misleading. The average for the entire country cannot be used to calculate an individual’s chance of dying from the virus. The likelihood that a COVID-19 infection will result in death increases with age and if the patient has a pre-existing condition..

Dr. Thomas Giordano, professor of medicine and section chief of infectious diseases at Baylor College of Medicine, said the tweet ignores the fact that many people who survive COVID-19 have long-term symptoms, and that people who survive it can spread the disease to high risk patients who will not be as lucky.

“One in 500 people in the U.S. has died from COVID. To try to trivialize it and say it’s nothing, it doesn’t matter, I think it’s just a gross mischaracterization of what we are all living through,” Giordano told The Associated Press in a call.

Furthermore, vaccinated people are far less likely to become severely ill or die from COVID-19 compared to unvaccinated people.

Most vaccinated people with breakthrough infections experience mild illness, Dr. William Moss, a vaccine expert at the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health, told the AP.

Giordano said compared to the average COVID-19 death rate in the U.S., “you look at what the vaccines can do, they decrease the risk of death and severe illness by more than 90 percent, 95 percent in the randomized studies.”

Data from May showed nearly all U.S. deaths from the virus were among people who haven’t received the vaccine, AP reporting found. About 99.5% of all deaths from COVID-19 are in the unvaccinated, Centers for Disease Control and Prevention Director Dr. Rochelle Walensky has said.

___

This is part of The Associated Press’ ongoing effort to address widely shared misinformation, including work with Facebook and other platforms to add context to misleading content and reduce its circulation online.
I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have ended up where I needed to be.
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Si fractum non sit, noli id reficere.

Teach a child to be polite and courteous in the home and, when he grows up, he'll never be able to drive in New Jersey.

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Re: Incompetence may have spread the virus

#659 Post by BackInTex » Fri Oct 15, 2021 7:33 pm

Bob Juch wrote:
Fri Oct 15, 2021 3:06 pm
Spock wrote:
Fri Oct 15, 2021 9:23 am
silverscreenselect wrote:
Fri Oct 15, 2021 6:47 am


No one said that vaccinations were guaranteed to prevent infections. No medication is guaranteed to achieve any particular desirable result.

Bob J said that the reason for requiring vaccines was "to prevent other employees as well as customers from becoming infected." The dictionary definition of "prevent" is "to hinder or stop from doing something."

If you're going to play semantic games, at least be correct when you try to do so.
Just remember-you guys are scared shitless of/ and want to reorder society for a cold bug with a 99.9 something percent survival rate.(even among the unvaccinated)
Your 99.9% survival rate is wrong:

https://apnews.com/article/fact-checking-970830023526

CLAIM: If you are unvaccinated, you can get COVID and have over 99% chance of survival. If you get vaccinated, you can STILL get COVID and will still have over 99% chance of survival.

AP’S ASSESSMENT: Missing context. On average about 98.2% of known COVID-19 patients in the U.S. survive, but each individual’s chance of dying from the virus will vary depending on their age, whether they have an underlying health condition and whether they are vaccinated. While people who are vaccinated can still get infected, these “breakthrough” cases are rare and vaccines dramatically reduce severe illness and death.

THE FACTS: As of July 23, there were more than 34.3 million known cases of COVID-19 in the United States and 610,370 deaths, according to data from Johns Hopkins University. That means the case fatality ratio -- or the portion of known cases that result in death in the country -- is 1.8%. In other words, on average, 98.2% of known COVID-19 patients in the U.S. survive. Because the true number of infections is much larger than just the documented cases, the actual survival rate of all COVID-19 infections is even higher than 98.2%.

A popular tweet this week, however, used the survival statistic without key context. “Unvaccinated, you can get COVID and have over 99% chance of survival. Get vaccinated and you can STILL get COVID and will still have over 99% chance of survival,” reads the tweet.

The message is misleading. The average for the entire country cannot be used to calculate an individual’s chance of dying from the virus. The likelihood that a COVID-19 infection will result in death increases with age and if the patient has a pre-existing condition..

Dr. Thomas Giordano, professor of medicine and section chief of infectious diseases at Baylor College of Medicine, said the tweet ignores the fact that many people who survive COVID-19 have long-term symptoms, and that people who survive it can spread the disease to high risk patients who will not be as lucky.

“One in 500 people in the U.S. has died from COVID. To try to trivialize it and say it’s nothing, it doesn’t matter, I think it’s just a gross mischaracterization of what we are all living through,” Giordano told The Associated Press in a call.

Furthermore, vaccinated people are far less likely to become severely ill or die from COVID-19 compared to unvaccinated people.

Most vaccinated people with breakthrough infections experience mild illness, Dr. William Moss, a vaccine expert at the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health, told the AP.

Giordano said compared to the average COVID-19 death rate in the U.S., “you look at what the vaccines can do, they decrease the risk of death and severe illness by more than 90 percent, 95 percent in the randomized studies.”

Data from May showed nearly all U.S. deaths from the virus were among people who haven’t received the vaccine, AP reporting found. About 99.5% of all deaths from COVID-19 are in the unvaccinated, Centers for Disease Control and Prevention Director Dr. Rochelle Walensky has said.

___

This is part of The Associated Press’ ongoing effort to address widely shared misinformation, including work with Facebook and other platforms to add context to misleading content and reduce its circulation online.
Take out the cases and death of those over 80. What is the survival rate?
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Re: Incompetence may have spread the virus

#660 Post by Bob78164 » Fri Oct 15, 2021 7:44 pm

BackInTex wrote:Take out the cases and death of those over 80. What is the survival rate?
Not sure. But it's very easy to know that the overall survival rate in the United States is not 99.9%. We've lost about 0.2% of our entire population to the disease, and not everyone has caught it. --Bob
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Re: Incompetence may have spread the virus

#661 Post by silverscreenselect » Sat Oct 16, 2021 7:58 am

Bob78164 wrote:
Fri Oct 15, 2021 7:44 pm
BackInTex wrote:Take out the cases and death of those over 80. What is the survival rate?
Not sure. But it's very easy to know that the overall survival rate in the United States is not 99.9%. We've lost about 0.2% of our entire population to the disease, and not everyone has caught it. --Bob
In 2019, 2,847,000 Americans died from all causes.
In 2020, as of totals compiled in April, 2021, (there's always a lag in death certificates being counted), 3,427,000 Americans died from all causes.

That's a spike of 600,000. And while "official" COVID deaths were only 350,000 in that time (none in January and February), it strongly suggests what we've all felt, that COVID deaths were undercounted for various reasons and that COVID hastened the death of others from various causes (including a lack of proper medical care).

To put the COVID deaths in perspective, in 2020, 705,000 people died of heart disease, and 609,000 died of cancer (both those totals were higher in 2020 than in 2019). And obviously, many of the people who died of cancer or heart disease had suffered from that disease for years before their deaths.

The game that conservatives like to play is to compare the total number of COVID deaths to the total size of the country and then say that it's nothing worse than a bad case of flu. 22,000 people died of flu in the 2019-20 flu season, and estimates are that those numbers will be lower this year because the social distancing measures that a lot of people practiced slow down the spread of flu as well as COVID.

The United States is a big country, so the total number of people who die from any cause or all causes is small in comparison with the total population of the country. But looking at COVID deaths in comparison to all deaths or deaths from any particular cause reveals a different story. The death rate in 2020 was the highest since 1943. And the number of people who died from all causes in 2020 spiked significantly for every age group over 25. Not many 25-44-year-olds died in 2020, but a lot more of them did than in the most recent few years.

Or let's put it another way. If someone developed a vaccine that was 90+% effective in preventing death or hospitalization from cancer or heart disease and that vaccine was widely and freely available, do you think we would have anywhere near this number of people opposed to it?

And when you talk about the deaths of people over 80, the fact is that those people in many cases had years more to live. They often caught the disease from younger, more mobile people who were infected. Does anyone really want to tell their kids this Christmas that Grandma won't be there because they stood up for their freedoms against the liberals?
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Re: Incompetence may have spread the virus

#662 Post by earendel » Sun Oct 17, 2021 3:00 pm

Beebs52 wrote:
Fri Oct 15, 2021 12:46 pm
I'm sorry Ear.
The irony is that she was a NICU nurse. She was willing to quit her job if the hospital mandated that she be vaccinated.
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Re: Incompetence may have spread the virus

#663 Post by Beebs52 » Sun Oct 17, 2021 3:43 pm

I empathize. I have close fam who won't get vaccinated.
Well, then

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Re: Incompetence may have spread the virus

#664 Post by silverscreenselect » Mon Oct 18, 2021 9:19 am

From an anti-vaxxer's twitter feed:
7/31/21 wrote:God bless Texas! If you're concerned or scared, YOU stay home. YOU order everything, have it delivered. YOU change your life and stay quarantined! The rest of us will go on about our business.
8/15/21 wrote:IF YOU CARED ABOUT YOUR NEXT BREATH, YOU'D GET OUT OF MY FACE TALKING ABOUT THAT DANG EXPERIMENTAL SHOT.
8/17/21 wrote:I will not water myself down to make me more digestible for you. You can choke.
9/14/21 wrote:Please pray for me and send good vibes. I've been admitted to ICU with COVID.
9/15/21 wrote:I'm to weak to answer calls, even all the txt. Please understand I'm very great full for all the prayers and concerns. It means the world. No real change, still struggling to breathe. I'm being pumped with as much oxygen as humanly possible. Just continue to pray please, I can use them. I'm struggling. I'm scared, I'm alone, I'm in so much pain
9/19/21 wrote:Sorry guys, not much to update going on day 7 in the hospital. They were able to lower my oxygen intake some, still struggling to breathe on my own. I'm fighting and trying so hard to get better. I miss my family, it's lonely and frustrating being inside the cold hospital walls. ... Please continue to pray for me and my family, this is one of the worst things I've ever experienced in my entire life.
From here on, the tweets were posted by this woman's mother. The woman wound up on dialysis and back on the ventilator. Leading up to:
10/13/21 wrote:With a heavy heart, I give everyone a sincere "THANK YOU" and inform you my beautiful daughter, [Name redacted], has passed away @9:41 this morning. She was a gorgeous light on the earth to so many.
https://www.reddit.com/r/HermanCainAwar ... g_wed_all/
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Re: Incompetence may have spread the virus

#665 Post by Bob Juch » Mon Oct 18, 2021 9:27 am

From an online friend:

I have lived with blood cancer for many years. This is why I stay away from the selfish unvaccinated idiots who don't care about spreading a disease that is a killer to people like me. I would like to thank all of those family members around me who take all of those precautions to make it as safe as possible so I can be around to see baby Joey grow up.
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Re: Incompetence may have spread the virus

#666 Post by Vandal » Wed Nov 03, 2021 12:21 pm

Green Bay Packers QB Aaron Rodgers tests positive for COVID-1

Green Bay Packers quarterback Aaron Rodgers has tested positive for COVID-19 and will not play against the Kansas City Chiefs on Sunday, a source confirmed to ESPN.

The NFL has considered Rodgers as unvaccinated since the start of the season, sources confirmed to ESPN and as first reported by NFL Network.

Under league protocol, if Rodgers tests positive and is unvaccinated, he must quarantine for a minimum of 10 days and cannot return until Nov. 13 at the earliest, if he remains asymptomatic.

Rodgers, 37, had an alternate treatment prior to the start of training camp, sources told ESPN, and he then petitioned the NFL for that treatment to allow him to be considered the same as someone who received one of the approved vaccinations. After a lengthy back-and-forth, the league ruled that Rodgers would not get the same consideration and would be considered unvaccinated.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/325 ... ource-says
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Re: Incompetence may have spread the virus

#667 Post by Vandal » Sat Nov 06, 2021 3:11 pm

A statement from Aaron Rodgers:

"I realize I'm in the crosshairs of the woke mob right now, so before my final nail gets put in my cancel culture casket, I think I'd like to set the record straight on so many of the blatant lies that are out there about myself," Rodgers said in a lengthy opening statement. "First of all, I didn't lie in the initial press conference. During that time, it was a witch hunt that was going on across the league where everybody in the media was so concerned about who was vaccinated and what that meant and who was being selfish and who would talk about it and what it meant if they said it's a personal decision (and) they shouldn't have to disclose their own medical information and whatnot. And at the time, my plan was to say that I've been immunized. It wasn't some sort of ruse or lie, it was the truth."
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Re: Incompetence may have spread the virus

#668 Post by silverscreenselect » Sat Nov 06, 2021 7:28 pm

Rodgers Deal With Health Company Ends After Vaccination Comment
Green Bay Packers quarterback Aaron Rodgers and Wisconsin health-care company Prevea Health have severed ties after the NFL star defended his decision not to get vaccinated against Covid-19.

“Prevea Health remains deeply committed to protecting its patients, staff, providers and communities amidst the Covid-19 pandemic,” the company said in a statement on Saturday. “This includes encouraging and helping all eligible populations to become vaccinated.” Rodgers had been a spokesperson for the Green Bay-based firm, which provides primary and specialty health-care services in more than 80 clinic and hospital locations throughout Wisconsin, since 2012. Financial terms of the sponsorship deal were not disclosed.
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Re: Incompetence may have spread the virus

#669 Post by Spock » Sat Nov 06, 2021 8:35 pm

It should be noted that Rodgers has said he is allergic to components of the MRNA vaccines.

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Re: Incompetence may have spread the virus

#670 Post by Bob Juch » Sat Nov 06, 2021 9:02 pm

Spock wrote:
Sat Nov 06, 2021 8:35 pm
It should be noted that Rodgers has said he is allergic to components of the MRNA vaccines.
How the hell does he "know"?
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Re: Incompetence may have spread the virus

#671 Post by tlynn78 » Sat Nov 06, 2021 10:44 pm

Bob Juch wrote:
Sat Nov 06, 2021 9:02 pm
Spock wrote:
Sat Nov 06, 2021 8:35 pm
It should be noted that Rodgers has said he is allergic to components of the MRNA vaccines.
How the hell does he "know"?
:lol: :lol:
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Re: Incompetence may have spread the virus

#672 Post by silverscreenselect » Sun Nov 07, 2021 6:55 pm

Vandal wrote:
Sat Nov 06, 2021 3:11 pm
A statement from Aaron Rodgers:

"I realize I'm in the crosshairs of the woke mob right now, so before my final nail gets put in my cancel culture casket, I think I'd like to set the record straight on so many of the blatant lies that are out there about myself," Rodgers said in a lengthy opening statement. "First of all, I didn't lie in the initial press conference. During that time, it was a witch hunt that was going on across the league where everybody in the media was so concerned about who was vaccinated and what that meant and who was being selfish and who would talk about it and what it meant if they said it's a personal decision (and) they shouldn't have to disclose their own medical information and whatnot. And at the time, my plan was to say that I've been immunized. It wasn't some sort of ruse or lie, it was the truth."
The Aaron Rodgers-less Packers lost to Kansas City 13-7 today. Rodgers' replacement, Jordan Love, threw for 190 years with one TD and one INT. Ironically, that was more than Patrick Mahomes threw for (166 yards). The Packers outgained the Chiefs for the game, but two turnovers and two missed field goals did them in.
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Re: Incompetence may have spread the virus

#673 Post by silverscreenselect » Sun Nov 07, 2021 10:54 pm

Emilio Estevez will not be returning for Season 2 of the Disney Plus Mighty Ducks TV series because he indicated that he would not comply with the series' COVID protocols. The series is a sequel to the Mighty Ducks movie that Estevez starred in during the 1990s. On the series, his character coaches a new team of misfits that want to take on the now-successful Ducks. No word yet on how Estevez' character will be written out of the series.
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Re: Incompetence may have spread the virus

#674 Post by Vandal » Mon Nov 08, 2021 2:46 pm

Quote from Kareem Abdul-Jabbar about Rodgers:
Instead of consulting immunologists, he consulted anti-vaxxer and podcast host Joe Rogan, who also contracted the virus. If he ever requires open-heart surgery will he hand the scalpel to romance writers because they know about matters of the heart?
https://kareem.substack.com/p/aaron-rod ... tm_source=
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Re: Incompetence may have spread the virus

#675 Post by Vandal » Wed Nov 10, 2021 6:40 am

Green Bay Packers, Aaron Rodgers, Allen Lazard fined for COVID-19 protocol violations

The NFL's review of the Green Bay Packers' COVID-19 protocols was completed Tuesday, and a league source said the team was fined $300,000, while quarterback Aaron Rodgers and receiver Allen Lazard were each fined $14,650.

They were fined for violations of the protocols that were jointly agreed upon by the NFL and the NFL Players Association.

The source said the Packers' cooperation with the investigation was taken into consideration, but the team was warned that future violations could result in increased discipline, including possible change in draft position or loss of draft choice.

The violations included the unvaccinated Rodgers not wearing a mask during his news conferences and because the team did not report that Rodgers and Lazard attended a Halloween party, even though it was away from the team facility. By attending, Rodgers and Lazard violated the protocol that prevents unvaccinated players from gathering in groups of more than three, which was the reason for their fine. The amount of the players' fines were part of the jointly agreed upon fine schedule between the league and the players' union.

The investigation also included a review of video from inside the club facility and found a few isolated instances of Rodgers and Lazard failing to wear a mask in the facility. Other than those isolated incidents, the video showed no wide-spread or systemic mask-wearing violation, the source said.


https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/325 ... ource-says
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Available now:
The Secret At Haney Field: A Baseball Mystery
The Right Hand Rule
Center Point
Dizzy Miss Lizzie
Running On Empty
The Tick Tock Man
The Dragon's Song by Binh Pham and R. M. Clark

Visit my website: http://www.rmclarkauthor.com

Ready: Devin Drake and The Family Secret

Working on:
Devin Drake and The RollerGhoster

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