Incompetence may have spread the virus

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Re: Incompetence may have spread the virus

#526 Post by silverscreenselect » Mon Jul 27, 2020 6:55 pm

There's incompetence and then there's ridiculous stupidity:
A house party in New Jersey was so packed with partygoers openly flouting the state's Covid-19 crowd guidelines this weekend that it took police officers over 5 hours to break it up. The bust occurred on Sunday at around 8:30 p.m., when police officers arrived at a house in Jackson that was being rented out through Airbnb, according to a statement by Captain Steven Laskiewicz posted on the Jackson Police Department's Facebook page.

Still, the party continued to grow, with the crowd surging to an estimated 700 people with well over 100 vehicles parked in the area, according to the statement.
It took police until 1 a.m. to fully clear the residence. The homeowner and two party organizers were each issued summons, the statement said.
This is New Jersey, which has done a very good job of stopping the spread of the virus. For a long time, NJ was second only to New York in numbers of cases and deaths, but it has slowed way down. Incidents like this won't help. I wish I understood how the entire civilized world seems to understand what needs to be done to get the virus under control to some extent and we don't. Are we going to spend the rest of the time until we get a vaccine just playing whack-a-mole with states getting better and then having outbreaks caused by idiots like these. I don't think these people were making a political statement; this was flat-out stupidity.

South Korea has been safely playing baseball for nearly three months, and Sunday, they let a few fans back in the stands (10% of capacity). They had 58 new cases of coronavirus on Sunday (there's been an uptick since they started opening up again, with 100 cases on Saturday). The population of South Korea is 52 million, so 100 new cases translates to the equivalent of 600-700 here. We had 56,000 yesterday. They have been safely playing baseball for three months. We couldn't get through one weekend without games being postponed.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/27/us/new-j ... index.html
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Re: Incompetence may have spread the virus

#527 Post by silverscreenselect » Wed Jul 29, 2020 10:11 am

GOP congressman who frequently refuses to wear a mask tests positive for Covid-19
Rep. Louie Gohmert, a Texas Republican, has tested positive for coronavirus. Gohmert has frequently refused to wear a mask while at the Capitol during the pandemic. He has spent ample time on the House floor during votes speaking to aides and lawmakers — without a mask or social distancing. His office did not respond to multiple requests for comment.

Gohmert had been scheduled to fly aboard Air Force One with President Trump to Midland, Texas, where he is fundraising and touring an oil rig. He tested positive for coronavirus on Wednesday morning during a pre-flight screening at the White House, a person familiar with the situation told CNN. Because of the positive test, Gohmert is not traveling with the President.

A senior Republican aide told CNN the test results have caused issues on the Hill, with “a lot of staffers” ordered to get tests before they can go to meetings and resume activity. Some are sequestering in their offices until they can get tested. Gohmert’s office notified Republican leaders, who notified House medical staff and the protocol kicked in for further notification, the GOP aide said. Politico first reported the news.

Gohmert told CNN last month that he didn’t wear a mask because he had been tested and he didn’t yet have the virus. “But if I get it, you’ll never see me without a mask,” he said. He is just one of several conservative Republicans who have pushed back on mask-wearing, sometimes causing tension during committee meetings.

During Tuesday’s hearing with Attorney General Bill Barr, House Judiciary Committee Chairman Jerry Nadler urged a handful of Republican members to keep their masks on. Gohmert was also present at the hearing. He was seen maskless outside the room near Barr at one point. The Justice Department told CNN Wednesday that Barr will get tested.
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Re: Incompetence may have spread the virus

#528 Post by Bob78164 » Wed Jul 29, 2020 11:51 am

silverscreenselect wrote:
Wed Jul 29, 2020 10:11 am
GOP congressman who frequently refuses to wear a mask tests positive for Covid-19
Rep. Louie Gohmert, a Texas Republican, has tested positive for coronavirus. Gohmert has frequently refused to wear a mask while at the Capitol during the pandemic. He has spent ample time on the House floor during votes speaking to aides and lawmakers — without a mask or social distancing. His office did not respond to multiple requests for comment.

Gohmert had been scheduled to fly aboard Air Force One with President Trump to Midland, Texas, where he is fundraising and touring an oil rig. He tested positive for coronavirus on Wednesday morning during a pre-flight screening at the White House, a person familiar with the situation told CNN. Because of the positive test, Gohmert is not traveling with the President.

A senior Republican aide told CNN the test results have caused issues on the Hill, with “a lot of staffers” ordered to get tests before they can go to meetings and resume activity. Some are sequestering in their offices until they can get tested. Gohmert’s office notified Republican leaders, who notified House medical staff and the protocol kicked in for further notification, the GOP aide said. Politico first reported the news.

Gohmert told CNN last month that he didn’t wear a mask because he had been tested and he didn’t yet have the virus. “But if I get it, you’ll never see me without a mask,” he said. He is just one of several conservative Republicans who have pushed back on mask-wearing, sometimes causing tension during committee meetings.

During Tuesday’s hearing with Attorney General Bill Barr, House Judiciary Committee Chairman Jerry Nadler urged a handful of Republican members to keep their masks on. Gohmert was also present at the hearing. He was seen maskless outside the room near Barr at one point. The Justice Department told CNN Wednesday that Barr will get tested.
It gets worse. According to one of his aides, "Louie requires full staff to be in the office, including three interns, so that ‘we could be an example to America on how to open up safely.’ When probing the office, you might want to ask how often were people berated for wearing masks."

A microcosm of bosses across the country who choose to endanger their workers' health and lives.

Reports are emerging, by the way, that even mild infections of COVID-19 result in cardiac damage. --Bob
"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear." Thomas Jefferson

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Re: Incompetence may have spread the virus

#529 Post by silverscreenselect » Fri Jul 31, 2020 8:42 am

A harsh lesson in the reality of COVID-19
Imagine the sound and vibration of an old-fashioned electric heater going through your whole body. Imagine gasping for air with every step you take. Imagine rubbing Icy Hot all over your head to soothe a painful headache. Imagine your eyes in a bowl of water while you’re still seeing through them. Imagine collapsing and waking up in the ER only to find out COVID-19 attacked your central nervous system, and the doctor had just saved you from a stroke. If that were the worst of it, it would be bad enough. But that’s not the worst of it. This is the story of one family’s harrowing fight with COVID-19.

I admit I voted for Donald Trump in 2016. I admit traveling deep into the conspiracy trap over COVID-19. All the defiant behavior of Trump’s more radical and rowdy cult followers, I participated in it. I was a hard-ass that stood up for my “God-given rights.” In great haste, I began prognosticating the alphabet soup about this “scamdemic.” I believed the virus to be a hoax. I believed the mainstream media and the Democrats were using it to create panic, crash the economy and destroy Trump’s chances at re-election. And so, believing the pandemic to be a hoax, my partner and I hosted family members on Saturday, June 13. On Sunday, June 14, I woke up sick.

By Monday, June 15, my partner and my parents were all sick. That same Monday, my in-laws traveled to witness the birth of their first grandchild. They took with them my father-in-law’s mother and one of my partner’s sisters. That night my father-in-law became ill. Then my mother-in-law and their daughter began feeling sick. So they cut their trip short. Two days later, my father-in-law’s mother got sick. The new mommy and daddy got sick, too. We all tested positive for COVID-19. Only the newborn was spared. My father-in-law and I both went to the hospital on June 24. The virus had attacked my central nervous system, and the staff stopped me from having a stroke. My father-in-law’s mother was admitted a day later. On July 1, she died of COVID-19/pneumonia.

You cannot imagine the guilt I feel, knowing that I hosted the gathering that led to so much suffering. You cannot imagine my guilt at having been a denier, carelessly shuffling through this pandemic, making fun of those wearing masks and social distancing. You cannot imagine my guilt at knowing that my actions convinced both our families it was safe when it wasn’t. For those who deny the virus exists or who downplay its severity, let me assure you: The coronavirus is very real and extremely contagious. Before you even know you have it, you’ve passed it along to your friends, family, coworkers and neighbors.

The next time you’re put out because your favorite spots are closed or because they won’t let you enter without wearing a mask, and you decide to defy them rather than comply because you’re defending your rights and freedoms from being trampled, just remember: Your family and friends may be next. Is that too harsh? Try imagining someone you care about on life support. Now imagine one more thing: That pool party, the mixer or family reunion you’re pushing for resulting in you being cold and alone in a hospital bed, fighting for your life. Imagine the only human contact you feel is a stranger’s rubber glove giving you medication, checking your vitals and changing your diaper. That is exactly what has happened to our family.

America, this is not going to go away without sacrifice. Either way, we are going to pay a price. Governments are faced with making difficult decisions, and they cannot appease and satisfy everyone. But to do nothing is to be foolish. To ignore or question the validity of this virus, its contagiousness or the consequences of selfish attitudes is — at this stage — completely stupid. I am calling myself out first, but now this is personal, and I fell on my sword. And I promise you, if we continue being more worried about the disruption to our lives than we are about stopping this virus, not one American will be spared. Not one.
I'd just add that the author says that on the day he was admitted to the hospital, he received treatment without which he might have died from a stroke. He appears to be a man in his 30s. There are probably a lot of other people who don't go to the hospital just in time and have their deaths attributed to stroke or other non-COVID causes, so they don't show up in the "official" death count.
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Re: Incompetence may have spread the virus

#530 Post by silverscreenselect » Fri Jul 31, 2020 3:07 pm

There have been 260 confirmed cases of coronavirus out of 600 attendees and staff members at a YMCA summer camp in North Georgia in June. The attendees were aged 7-14 and the staff members 14-22. The camp followed the governor's guidelines but not the more stringent CDC guidelines regarding masking of the attendees and improved ventilation. Our governor believes he is smarter than the doctors regarding the coronavirus and 4,000 new cases a day keep proving him wrong. Just think what the numbers will be in a few weeks if we open up the schools.

https://www.ajc.com/news/coronavirus/26 ... gn_1406514
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Re: Incompetence may have spread the virus

#531 Post by silverscreenselect » Sat Aug 01, 2020 6:04 am

Not conclusive but scary; the comes from a reputable German medical journal. 78 out of 100 German recovered coronavirus patients showed noticeable damage to their hearts. This tracks with (and is more severe than) an earlier Chinese study):

Study shows most recovered Covid-19 patients left with heart damage
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Re: Incompetence may have spread the virus

#532 Post by jaybee » Sat Aug 01, 2020 5:30 pm

I just got back from a trip to Walmart. Our county, and all Walmarts have a mandatory mask policy. I overheard this from one of the trio of non-mask wearing people at the register next to me: "You can take your mask off once you get into the store. Nobody ain't gonna do nothing to you"

We are a nation of fucking morons.
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Re: Incompetence may have spread the virus

#533 Post by silverscreenselect » Fri Aug 07, 2020 7:56 am

Leelanau County, MI, Road Commissioner Tom Eckerle, when asked by a colleague to wear a mask at a public meeting of the Commission:
Well, this whole thing is because of them [N-word]s in Detroit. I can say anything I want. Black Lives Matter has everything to do with taking the country away from us.
In a later radio interview:
I don’t regret calling it an [N-word]. A [N-word] is a [N-word] is a [N-word]. That’s not a person whatsoever.
The Road Commission is an elected office in Michigan. The other commissioners have called on Eckerle to resign, and he has refused.
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Re: Incompetence may have spread the virus

#534 Post by silverscreenselect » Wed Aug 12, 2020 4:09 pm

The sheriff of Marion County, FL (the central Florida county where Ocala is located), just issued an order prohibiting employees and visitors from wearing masks. If someone enters the office wearing a mask, they will be asked to leave. (There are exceptions for on-duty officers going to schools, hospitals and similar places). This happened one day after Marion County reported the highest number of COVID deaths to date.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/12/us/sheri ... index.html
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Re: Incompetence may have spread the virus

#535 Post by Vandal » Mon Aug 17, 2020 2:37 pm

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Re: Incompetence may have spread the virus

#536 Post by silverscreenselect » Fri Aug 21, 2020 8:08 am

Sen. Bill Cassidy R-LA 8/19/20 wrote:I keep saying you can go to Walmart and be safe, just stand six feet behind the guy in front of you. Um, and why can’t we do that also at the voting booth? Of course we can.
News Headline 8/20/21: Sen. Bill Cassidy tests positive for coronavirus: The Louisiana Republican will quarantine for 14 days, according to his office.
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Re: Incompetence may have spread the virus

#537 Post by Spock » Fri Aug 21, 2020 11:24 am

silverscreenselect wrote:
Fri Aug 21, 2020 8:08 am
Sen. Bill Cassidy R-LA 8/19/20 wrote:I keep saying you can go to Walmart and be safe, just stand six feet behind the guy in front of you. Um, and why can’t we do that also at the voting booth? Of course we can.
News Headline 8/20/21: Sen. Bill Cassidy tests positive for coronavirus: The Louisiana Republican will quarantine for 14 days, according to his office.
Note that Senator Cassidy's (age 62) situation will most likely be handled through a self-imposed quarantine. There is little or no fear for his life.

This is not the Black Death that we are dealing with here (unless you were in New York/New Jersey with incompetent governance).

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Re: Incompetence may have spread the virus

#538 Post by Bob78164 » Fri Aug 21, 2020 12:37 pm

Spock wrote:
Fri Aug 21, 2020 11:24 am
silverscreenselect wrote:
Fri Aug 21, 2020 8:08 am
Sen. Bill Cassidy R-LA 8/19/20 wrote:I keep saying you can go to Walmart and be safe, just stand six feet behind the guy in front of you. Um, and why can’t we do that also at the voting booth? Of course we can.
News Headline 8/20/21: Sen. Bill Cassidy tests positive for coronavirus: The Louisiana Republican will quarantine for 14 days, according to his office.
Note that Senator Cassidy's (age 62) situation will most likely be handled through a self-imposed quarantine. There is little or no fear for his life.

This is not the Black Death that we are dealing with here (unless you were in New York/New Jersey with incompetent governance).
You do realize that the typical wait between symptom onset and hospitalization, for those who need it, it approximately a week. I certainly hope for Senator Cassidy's sake that you're right. But as BoJo can tell him through experience, it's far too early to reach that conclusion.

As for your crack about state governance, an awful lot of red states are quickly climbing the charts, and that's with states such as Florida cooking the books. --Bob
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Re: Incompetence may have spread the virus

#539 Post by silverscreenselect » Fri Aug 21, 2020 3:27 pm

Spock wrote:
Fri Aug 21, 2020 11:24 am
Note that Senator Cassidy's (age 62) situation will most likely be handled through a self-imposed quarantine. There is little or no fear for his life.
I wonder why you always try to reduce the coronavirus statistics only to deaths. There are 4 to 5 hospitalizations for every death, and many of these hospitalizations are lengthy agonizing stays. I guess your view is that people shouldn't worry about being on a ventilator for a week or longer and possibly sustaining long term side effects as long as they aren't one of the 180,000 or so who have already died.
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Re: Incompetence may have spread the virus

#540 Post by Spock » Fri Aug 21, 2020 6:16 pm

silverscreenselect wrote:
Fri Aug 21, 2020 8:08 am
Sen. Bill Cassidy R-LA 8/19/20 wrote:I keep saying you can go to Walmart and be safe, just stand six feet behind the guy in front of you. Um, and why can’t we do that also at the voting booth? Of course we can.
News Headline 8/20/21: Sen. Bill Cassidy tests positive for coronavirus: The Louisiana Republican will quarantine for 14 days, according to his office.
I was thinking about this original post. Obviously, we all can detect a smidgen of Schadenfreude in SSS's post-"Ha Ha, a Republican got Covid." But what did Cassidy actually do? He simply advocated social distancing-I guess that is what an incompetent boob does now.

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Re: Incompetence may have spread the virus

#541 Post by silverscreenselect » Fri Aug 21, 2020 11:06 pm

Spock wrote:
Fri Aug 21, 2020 6:16 pm
silverscreenselect wrote:
Fri Aug 21, 2020 8:08 am
Sen. Bill Cassidy R-LA 8/19/20 wrote:I keep saying you can go to Walmart and be safe, just stand six feet behind the guy in front of you. Um, and why can’t we do that also at the voting booth? Of course we can.
News Headline 8/20/21: Sen. Bill Cassidy tests positive for coronavirus: The Louisiana Republican will quarantine for 14 days, according to his office.
I was thinking about this original post. Obviously, we all can detect a smidgen of Schadenfreude in SSS's post-"Ha Ha, a Republican got Covid." But what did Cassidy actually do? He simply advocated social distancing-I guess that is what an incompetent boob does now.
No, Cassidy's original comment was in response to people who felt it wasn't safe to vote in person because of the coronavirus, which led to Cassidy's comment. He was saying there's no reason people can't vote in person because they can socially distance. That makes one wonder how he contracted the virus.

And I notice you still haven't explained why you feel that the only "threat" posed by the coronavirus is that of dying. There's a lot of people currently in ICU units who would disagree with you there.
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Re: Incompetence may have spread the virus

#542 Post by Spock » Sat Aug 22, 2020 8:03 am

SSS>>>"I wonder why you always try to reduce the coronavirus statistics only to deaths."<<<<

Because it is a proxy that focuses on those most vulnerable to the disease.

Bob#'s>>>"As for your crack about state governance, an awful lot of red states are quickly climbing the charts, and that's with states such as Florida cooking the books. --Bob"<<<

Remind me of the death rates in New York/New Jersey versus the states you like to hate on-Florida-Georgia-Texas-Arizona.

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Re: Incompetence may have spread the virus

#543 Post by Bob78164 » Sat Aug 22, 2020 12:42 pm

Spock wrote:
Sat Aug 22, 2020 8:03 am
SSS>>>"I wonder why you always try to reduce the coronavirus statistics only to deaths."<<<<

Because it is a proxy that focuses on those most vulnerable to the disease.

Bob#'s>>>"As for your crack about state governance, an awful lot of red states are quickly climbing the charts, and that's with states such as Florida cooking the books. --Bob"<<<

Remind me of the death rates in New York/New Jersey versus the states you like to hate on-Florida-Georgia-Texas-Arizona.
Ask that question in three months. Or just compare their rates to the rates right here in California.

I don't have a lot of confidence in some states' reporting of deaths. Florida's pretty clearly cooking the books, and I have serious concerns about Georgia as well. I've been using hospitalizations as my preferred metric, because they're a lot harder to hide. --Bob
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Re: Incompetence may have spread the virus

#544 Post by silverscreenselect » Sat Aug 22, 2020 1:15 pm

Spock wrote:
Sat Aug 22, 2020 8:03 am
SSS>>>"I wonder why you always try to reduce the coronavirus statistics only to deaths."<<<<

Because it is a proxy that focuses on those most vulnerable to the disease.
Or because it's the smallest figure that you can use and then claim that we're working ourselves up about nothing.

The question you keep raising is whether it's worth the chaos resulting from, in this case, opening schools is worth it for a disease that has killed "only" 180,000 or so people and many of them old or having other diseases anyway. Leaving aside the question of whether it's a fair tradeoff to sacrifice busloads of old folks and people with diabetes to keep kindergartens open, the real toll of the coronavirus is much, much higher than 180,000 people and with the long-term effects as yet unknown, we don't know how much higher it will be. It won't be much fun to see a bunch of 30-40 year olds on dialysis or in coronary care units five years from now, at which time people like you will probably whine about how we had no way to know just how bad it would be.

Here's a scary statistic. Based on actuarial data, prior to the coronavirus, we could expect about three million people to die in this country in 2020. That total will be at least 10 percent higher.

And as far as comparing NY-NJ to TX-FL-GA, just remember that the real influx of the coronavirus came into this country from Europe to New York, which is one of the most heavily congested areas of the world. Conditions were ideal for spreading the virus and much of the damage was done before people really had any idea how bad this was going to be (and Mayor DeBlasio deserves some blame here). But there's no excuse for what's going on in these other states. They knew the risks and ignored the science and the disease skyrocketed while NY and NJ were getting it under control with tough measures. And now they want to do it all over again.
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Re: Incompetence may have spread the virus

#545 Post by Bob Juch » Tue Sep 01, 2020 8:04 am

New York Times wrote:Here’s a jarring thought experiment: If the United States had done merely an average job of fighting the coronavirus — if the U.S. accounted for the same share of virus deaths as it did global population — how many fewer Americans would have died?

The answer: about 145,000.

That’s a large majority of the country’s 183,000 confirmed coronavirus-related deaths.

No other country looks as bad by this measure. The U.S. accounts for 4 percent of the world’s population, and for 22 percent of confirmed Covid-19 deaths. It is one of the many signs that the Trump administration has done a poorer job of controlling the virus than dozens of other governments around the world.
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Re: Incompetence may have spread the virus

#546 Post by silverscreenselect » Wed Sep 09, 2020 11:13 am

Ukranian church leader who called coronavirus punishment for "evil" of same-sex marriage has COVID-19
A senior Orthodox religious leader in Ukraine has been hospitalized with the coronavirus months after calling the COVID-19 pandemic god's punishment for humanity allowing the "evil" of same-sex marriage. Patriarch Filaret, who leads one of the biggest denominations of Orthodox Christians in Ukraine, also said in March that God "will not allow me to get sick, because I have to serve the church."
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Re: Incompetence may have spread the virus

#547 Post by Bob Juch » Wed Sep 09, 2020 12:14 pm

Woodward book: Trump says he knew coronavirus was ‘deadly’ and worse than the flu while intentionally misleading Americans

President Trump’s head popped up during his top-secret intelligence briefing in the Oval Office on Jan. 28 when the discussion turned to the coronavirus outbreak in China.

“This will be the biggest national security threat you face in your presidency,” national security adviser Robert C. O’Brien told Trump, according to a new book by Washington Post associate editor Bob Woodward. “This is going to be the roughest thing you face.”

Matthew Pottinger, the deputy national security adviser, agreed. He told the president that after reaching contacts in China, it was evident that the world faced a health emergency on par with the flu pandemic of 1918, which killed an estimated 50 million people worldwide.

Ten days later, Trump called Woodward and revealed that he thought the situation was far more dire than what he had been saying publicly.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... story.html
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Re: Incompetence may have spread the virus

#548 Post by Bob78164 » Wed Sep 09, 2020 12:18 pm

Bob Juch wrote:
Wed Sep 09, 2020 12:14 pm
Woodward book: Trump says he knew coronavirus was ‘deadly’ and worse than the flu while intentionally misleading Americans

President Trump’s head popped up during his top-secret intelligence briefing in the Oval Office on Jan. 28 when the discussion turned to the coronavirus outbreak in China.

“This will be the biggest national security threat you face in your presidency,” national security adviser Robert C. O’Brien told Trump, according to a new book by Washington Post associate editor Bob Woodward. “This is going to be the roughest thing you face.”

Matthew Pottinger, the deputy national security adviser, agreed. He told the president that after reaching contacts in China, it was evident that the world faced a health emergency on par with the flu pandemic of 1918, which killed an estimated 50 million people worldwide.

Ten days later, Trump called Woodward and revealed that he thought the situation was far more dire than what he had been saying publicly.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... story.html
And by the way, for anyone who thinks Bob Woodward might be misquoting Donny, he's got him on tape. Which The Post (and other outlets) have published. So you can listen for yourself.

It's clear now that I mislabeled this thread. It wasn't incompetence that spread the virus. It was malice. Donny deliberately lied to the American people when he knew better. --Bob
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Re: Incompetence may have spread the virus

#549 Post by silverscreenselect » Wed Sep 09, 2020 12:30 pm

Bob78164 wrote:
Wed Sep 09, 2020 12:18 pm
It's clear now that I mislabeled this thread. It wasn't incompetence that spread the virus. It was malice. Donny deliberately lied to the American people when he knew better. --Bob
When the story about calling soldiers "suckers" and "losers" came out, I didn't think Trump could go any lower. I was wrong.

And there's still almost two months until the election.
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silverscreenselect
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Re: Incompetence may have spread the virus

#550 Post by silverscreenselect » Thu Sep 17, 2020 9:00 am

Donald Trump 9/15/20 at ABC Town Hall wrote:Now there is by the way, a lot of people don’t want to wear masks. There are a lot of people think that masks are not good. And there are a lot of people that as an example you have… I’ll tell you who those people are — waiters. They come over and they serve you, and they have a mask. And I saw it the other day where they were serving me, and they’re playing with the mask…I’m not blaming them…I’m just saying what happens. They’re playing with the mask, so the mask is over, and they’re touching it, and then they’re touching the plate. That can’t be good.
Apparently, Trump's new health experts are restaurant waiters.
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