WWTBAM Bored

2 Recent columns from VDH

https://amgreatness.com/2018/02/19/unde ... rnia-mind/

Agree with him or not, the man knows California as a whole better than anyone else. From Stanford and Silicon Valley to the rural slums of the Central Valley.

Pull Quote>>>"The California solution is always the same: the law-abiding must adjust to the non-law-abiding."<<<

https://www.investors.com/politics/colu ... alifornia/

Pull Quote>>>"In other words, some of the people most eager to offer green sermons to others live in one of the most artificial and ecologically fragile environments on the planet."<<<<

>>>"Adopt a little humility in admitting that most of the state is an artificial construct of affluent millions living in a delicate ecosystem where nature never intended them to cluster — impossible without constant multibillion-dollar investments in water, agriculture, housing and transportation."<<<

Spock wrote:2 Recent columns from VDH

https://amgreatness.com/2018/02/19/unde ... rnia-mind/

Agree with him or not, the man knows California as a whole better than anyone else. From Stanford and Silicon Valley to the rural slums of the Central Valley.

Pull Quote>>>"The California solution is always the same: the law-abiding must adjust to the non-law-abiding."<<<

https://www.investors.com/politics/colu ... alifornia/

Pull Quote>>>"In other words, some of the people most eager to offer green sermons to others live in one of the most artificial and ecologically fragile environments on the planet."<<<<

>>>"Adopt a little humility in admitting that most of the state is an artificial construct of affluent millions living in a delicate ecosystem where nature never intended them to cluster — impossible without constant multibillion-dollar investments in water, agriculture, housing and transportation."<<<

What evidence do you have that he knows California as a whole better than anyone else?

Bob Juch wrote: What evidence do you have that he knows California as a whole better than anyone else?

He tells Spock the things Spock wants to hear about California.

The place is so hellish it's a pozzlement that people and jobs aren't fleeing even faster. We'll obviously be a ghost state within decades, if not years.

Wait. What's that you say? The population is continuing to grow and California leads the nation in business start-ups?

It's almost as if the facts on the ground contradict Republican dogma. --Bob

Marijuana dispensaries don't count...

Beebs52 wrote:Marijuana dispensaries don't count...

Don't knock 'em till you've tried 'em. --Bob

Bob78164 wrote:

Beebs52 wrote:Marijuana dispensaries don't count...

Don't knock 'em till you've tried 'em, or I'll sue you. --Bob

Fixed it for you.

BackInTex wrote:

Bob78164 wrote:

Beebs52 wrote:Marijuana dispensaries don't count...

Don't knock 'em till you've tried 'em, or I'll sue you. --Bob

Fixed it for you.

Nah. None of them are my clients. --Bob

Bob78164 wrote:The place is so hellish it's a pozzlement that people and jobs aren't fleeing even faster. We'll obviously be a ghost state within decades, if not years.

Wait. What's that you say? The population is continuing to grow and California leads the nation in business start-ups?

It's almost as if the facts on the ground contradict Republican dogma. --Bob

Nobody disputes that the California private sector is booming, least of all VDH. Read the articles, as I am sure you didn't, he sings the praises of the California private sector.

I notice you said nothing about the metastisizing rural slums in the Central Valley.

Maybe somebody can help me with these quotes. Some of which I posted in the OP. It is one of those deals where it is right at the tip of my tongue.

They make me think of somebody, but I just can't put put a finger on it. I am not sure if it somebody from real life, or somebody that used to be here, or what. Help is appreciated.

>>>>"Coastal California is hilly, difficult to build on and prone to devastating earthquakes. It is semi-arid, without much of an aquifer. The life-giving watershed of the Sierra Nevada is more than 200 miles away.


In other words, some of the people most eager to offer green sermons to others live in one of the most artificial and ecologically fragile environments on the planet."<<<<

>>>"Learn how an entire culture is fed, housed and fueled before faulting those who address such needs.

Adopt a little humility in admitting that most of the state is an artificial construct of affluent millions living in a delicate ecosystem where nature never intended them to cluster -- impossible without constant multibillion-dollar investments in water, agriculture, housing and transportation.<<<<

Spock wrote:Maybe somebody can help me with these quotes. Some of which I posted in the OP. It is one of those deals where it is right at the tip of my tongue.

They make me think of somebody, but I just can't put put a finger on it. I am not sure if it somebody from real life, or somebody that used to be here, or what. Help is appreciated.

>>>>"Coastal California is hilly, difficult to build on and prone to devastating earthquakes. It is semi-arid, without much of an aquifer. The life-giving watershed of the Sierra Nevada is more than 200 miles away.


In other words, some of the people most eager to offer green sermons to others live in one of the most artificial and ecologically fragile environments on the planet."<<<<

>>>"Learn how an entire culture is fed, housed and fueled before faulting those who address such needs.

Adopt a little humility in admitting that most of the state is an artificial construct of affluent millions living in a delicate ecosystem where nature never intended them to cluster -- impossible without constant multibillion-dollar investments in water, agriculture, housing and transportation.<<<<

If you're saying California isn't perfect, no one disputes that. But calling us our most dystopian state (as compared to say, Mississippi) is quite a stretch.

And yes, I did read both articles you linked. You might note, by the way, that Secretary Clinton won at least one Congressional District in the Central Valley, so I think there are a number of Central Valley residents who are just fine with Democratic control of the government. --Bob

Spock wrote: I notice you said nothing about the metastisizing rural slums in the Central Valley.

You and Hansen see what you want to see.

BobJ>>>What evidence do you have that he knows California as a whole better than anyone else?<<<

I'll play that game. Do you have somebody else that even approaches him in having the whole of California ingrained into his very being?

On one hand, we have:

1) An almond farmer who has lived most of his life in the Central Valley who has found himself at the Ground Zero of illegal immigration and suddenly living in a rapidly metastisizing rural slum.

And on the other hand, we have:

2) A Hoover Institution academic who is intimately familiar with the "California Elite"/Silicon Valley/Urban California etc and used to analyzing information and trends and so forth.

Oh, wait a second, it is the same person. Game over, Thanks for playing.

Spock wrote:
Oh, wait a second, it is the same person. Game over, Thanks for playing.

Is this the same Victor Davis Hanson?

https://www.salon.com/2011/08/10/victor_davis_hanson/

Or this?

https://www.theatlantic.com/national/ar ... id/278026/

Or this?

http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/victor ... n-america/

Game over. Thanks for playing.

silverscreenselect wrote:

Spock wrote:
Oh, wait a second, it is the same person. Game over, Thanks for playing.

Is this the same Victor Davis Hanson?

https://www.salon.com/2011/08/10/victor_davis_hanson/

Or this?

https://www.theatlantic.com/national/ar ... id/278026/

Or this?

http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/victor ... n-america/

Game over. Thanks for playing.

Which brings me to another point. Spock has noted that I haven't responded to the statements about the conditions suffered by the poor in the Central Valley. That's true. I spend very little time in the Central Valley so I don't know how much of what he's saying is even true, much less representative of more general conditions in the Central Valley. And apparently unlike Victor Davis Hanson, I try not to express opinions without actually knowing what I'm talking about. --Bob

Spock wrote:BobJ>>>What evidence do you have that he knows California as a whole better than anyone else?<<<

I'll play that game. Do you have somebody else that even approaches him in having the whole of California ingrained into his very being?

Yes, Jerry Brown.

Bob Juch wrote:

Spock wrote:BobJ>>>What evidence do you have that he knows California as a whole better than anyone else?<<<

I'll play that game. Do you have somebody else that even approaches him in having the whole of California ingrained into his very being?

Yes, Jerry Brown.

Game, set, and match. --Bob

Bob78164 wrote:

silverscreenselect wrote:

Spock wrote:
Oh, wait a second, it is the same person. Game over, Thanks for playing.

Is this the same Victor Davis Hanson?

https://www.salon.com/2011/08/10/victor_davis_hanson/

Or this?

https://www.theatlantic.com/national/ar ... id/278026/

Or this?

http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/victor ... n-america/

Game over. Thanks for playing.

Which brings me to another point. Spock has noted that I haven't responded to the statements about the conditions suffered by the poor in the Central Valley. That's true . I spend very little time in the Central Valley so I don't know how much of what he's saying is even true, much less representative of more general conditions in the Central Valley. And apparently unlike Victor Davis Hanson, I try not to express opinions without actually knowing what I'm talking about. --Bob

I find the bolded statement interesting. Are you saying you don't express opinions without firsthand eyewitness information? Perhaps you misspoke.

Beebs52 wrote:

Bob78164 wrote:

silverscreenselect wrote:
Is this the same Victor Davis Hanson?

https://www.salon.com/2011/08/10/victor_davis_hanson/

Or this?

https://www.theatlantic.com/national/ar ... id/278026/

Or this?

http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/victor ... n-america/

Game over. Thanks for playing.

Which brings me to another point. Spock has noted that I haven't responded to the statements about the conditions suffered by the poor in the Central Valley. That's true . I spend very little time in the Central Valley so I don't know how much of what he's saying is even true, much less representative of more general conditions in the Central Valley. And apparently unlike Victor Davis Hanson, I try not to express opinions without actually knowing what I'm talking about. --Bob

I find the bolded statement interesting. Are you saying you don't express opinions without firsthand eyewitness information? Perhaps you misspoke.

No, I'm willing to rely on sources that I consider reliable. I haven't seen stories in my usual sources on the alleged phenomenon Hanson is recounting. However, there is plenty of room in my mind for the possibility that it exists (whether to the extent Hanson is claiming or to a lesser extent) but is not being reported upon. So although I'm certainly not willing to accept Hanson's word for the existence or extent of that phenomenon, I'm also not willing to say that he's wrong about it. That leaves me silent on the question. --Bob

Bob78164 wrote:The place is so hellish it's a pozzlement that people and jobs aren't fleeing even faster. We'll obviously be a ghost state within decades, if not years.

Wait. What's that you say? The population is continuing to grow and California leads the nation in business start-ups?

It's almost as if the facts on the ground contradict Republican dogma. --Bob

With thoughts of VDH and the classics dancing in my head, for some reason, the term "Hubris" is coming to mind.

Bob78164 wrote:The place is so hellish it's a pozzlement that people and jobs aren't fleeing even faster. We'll obviously be a ghost state within decades, if not years.

Wait. What's that you say? The population is continuing to grow and California leads the nation in business start-ups?

It's almost as if the facts on the ground contradict Republican dogma. --Bob

I don't know where Bob is getting his population estimates, but 2020 census projections indicate that California will not gain any seats. https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2017/1 ... ortionment

Also the high cost of housing is leading to an exodus of middle class workers from the Bay Area.
https://www.aei.org/publication/san-fra ... tal-rates/

There is a lot of wealth effect from the Trump stock market in California right now. A month ago (or so) when the stock market had a couple of really bad days there was a lot of glee from many on the left.

The left should really be hoping that the Trump stock market doesn't crash or even have a sustained downturn. If the stock market catches the flu, places like California will be hurt a lot worse than places like Mississippi.

If you absolutely believe that the Trump rise is due to Obama and that Trump will smash the markets like a bull in a china shop and you haven't pulled most of your money out of the stock market by now-what are you waiting for?

Beebs52 wrote:

Bob78164 wrote:

silverscreenselect wrote:
Is this the same Victor Davis Hanson?

https://www.salon.com/2011/08/10/victor_davis_hanson/

Or this?

https://www.theatlantic.com/national/ar ... id/278026/

Or this?

http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/victor ... n-america/

Game over. Thanks for playing.

Which brings me to another point. Spock has noted that I haven't responded to the statements about the conditions suffered by the poor in the Central Valley. That's true . I spend very little time in the Central Valley so I don't know how much of what he's saying is even true, much less representative of more general conditions in the Central Valley. And apparently unlike Victor Davis Hanson, I try not to express opinions without actually knowing what I'm talking about. --Bob

I find the bolded statement interesting. Are you saying you don't express opinions without firsthand eyewitness information? Perhaps you misspoke.

*snork*

I find 2 things very interesting in this thread.

1) The Bob's and SSS automatically attack VDH, but don't have another guy comparable. Maybe as a farmer in the Central Valley, he has a lifetime of ingrained knowledge of California water projects and issues and so forth and the "Bob's" of California can't even begin to comprehend that that knowledge base exists.

I am open to reading other people with similar diverse life experiences-bring em on


2) I also note the quick response to any mention of California as dystopian is to point out that great wealth exists as if that argues against dystopia. I thought one of the tenets of liberalism is that income inequality is dystopian. There is probably no state that that has a wider gap between the rich and the poor.

When a state has 12% of the US population and 1/3 of the welfare recipients something dystopian is going on.


http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/new ... story.html

VDH has the "Bob's" of California perfectly figured out. They think they are forever insulated from the effects of their voting. It never crosses their mind that they might suddenly find themselves living cheek to jowl in a rapidly growing slum at the ground zero of illegal immigration.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Bob>>" I spend very little time in the Central Valley so I don't know how much of what he's saying is even true, much less representative of more general conditions in the Central Valley. And apparently unlike Victor Davis Hanson, I try not to express opinions without actually knowing what I'm talking about. --Bob"<<<<<<<<<<<

I hear you, I bet you (and your peers) sometimes go for years without even thinking about the Central Valley and, much less, what effect your voting habits and the policies you espouse might have there.

I'd like to see a citation from a government source showing that 1/3 of welfare recipients in the U.S. are in California.

Illegal immigrants can not receive welfare.

Without illegal immigrants, all those crops in the Central Valley are going to rot in the fields.

Bob Juch wrote:I'd like to see a citation from a government source showing that 1/3 of welfare recipients in the U.S. are in California.

Illegal immigrants can not receive welfare.

Without illegal immigrants, all those crops in the Central Valley are going to rot in the fields.

This includes a source. http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la ... story.html