The Harvey List

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Re: The Harvey List

#101 Post by Pastor Fireball » Tue Dec 12, 2017 6:00 am

If you have lived in the Los Angeles area for any length of time over the past 40 years, you know who Steve Edwards is. He's a popular news personality down there. He also appeared frequently on Entertainment Tonight and hosted a number of unsold game show pilots, including the bizarre 1979 CBS pilot Pandemonium (which Wink Martindale recently uploaded to his YouTube page).

Well, he is now a former popular news personality because "Harvey List inductee" has been added to his resume.

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Re: The Harvey List

#102 Post by Vandal » Tue Dec 12, 2017 6:47 am

NFL Network suspends Marshall Faulk, Ike Taylor and Heath Evans over sexual harassment allegations
Hall of Fame running back Marshall Faulk was among three NFL Network analysts suspended Monday night in response to a new filing in a lawsuit brought by former wardrobe stylist,

Faulk, Ike Taylor and Heath Evans will remain suspended "pending an investigation into these allegations," NFL Network said in a statement to USA TODAY Sports. Jami Cantor, who worked at the network for a decade, described a series of sexually inappropriate encounters with the three along with several former NFL players and others who have worked for NFL Network, including Donovan McNabb, Warren Sapp and Eric Davis.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/2 ... 943287001/
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Re: The Harvey List

#103 Post by ghostjmf » Tue Dec 12, 2017 6:20 pm

ABC hasn't yet pulled The Great American Baking Show, which I watch, even though pastry chef judge Johnny Iuzzini's awful acts, with witnesses, have been known for a while, articles say.

Meanwhile Mario Batali, who I've watched going back to the original Molto Mario days (my sister, who has cable, was addicted); I have also seen a lot of The Chew, is getting erased from everywhere; his books & products removed from his Eataly empire. His partners' doing I'd bet.

I'm continuing to be disgusted by the acts being discussed but also frightened by the 1984 aspects of how quickly & completely transgressors are being disappeared. Stalin-era enemy-removal also comes to mind. McCarthy-era removal, but those accused by McCarthy were pretty much people who had been & were socialists, which in my book is a good thing, not Soviet-style communists.
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Re: The Harvey List

#104 Post by ghostjmf » Tue Dec 12, 2017 6:38 pm

It also makes me wonder about other sudden celeb disappearances, local & national, that had no publicity I can find. In long searches, I must add.
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Re: The Harvey List

#105 Post by flockofseagulls104 » Wed Dec 13, 2017 11:05 am

Isn't it wonderful that accusations in the media have saved us so much hassle and taxpayer money! No need to go through expensive trials or giving the accused the right to question or even sometimes to know who their accusers are. What a waste of time presuming these scumbags are innocent. If you're accused, you're guilty! No jail time. That costs money. Just lose your career and your reputation. (Unless you're a democrat/liberal. Then you just need to wait a year or so and you'll be back). Perhaps we should extend this new standard of justice to other areas besides sexual harassment (whatever the legal definition of that is at this point).

Just a discussion point. No need to be offended......
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Re: The Harvey List

#106 Post by silverscreenselect » Wed Dec 13, 2017 11:28 am

flockofseagulls104 wrote:Isn't it wonderful that accusations in the media have saved us so much hassle and taxpayer money! No need to go through expensive trials or giving the accused the right to question or even sometimes to know who their accusers are. What a waste of time presuming these scumbags are innocent. If you're accused, you're guilty! No jail time..
Many of these accusations can't result in jail time or civil liability because the statutes of limitations have expired. You don't seem to grasp the culture that exists in business that makes it very difficult for the people who have been harassed or assaulted to come forward. For years, they would be dismissed as kooks, sluts, blackmailers, or anything else besides powerless victims. And they would suffer severe repercussions in their business and personal lives. It's really only been since the Weinstein case broke that people feel more free about coming forward.

But abusers and harassers don't do it just once. They continue to do it, often for years, and, what's more those they work with it are well aware of it. So, when the accusations break and someone does go public, while you and I might be surprised to learn about Kevin Spacey or Charlie Rose's proclivities, those they worked with are not. And in almost all these cases it becomes obvious pretty quickly whether there's meat to the accusations or if it's the rare case (about 5% of all such accusations) that's false.
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Re: The Harvey List

#107 Post by ghostjmf » Wed Dec 13, 2017 1:07 pm

Read Salma Hayek's NYT piece about what it took, even avoiding his physical abuse, to get her life's-ambition movie "Frida", about artist Frida Kalo, produced under Weinstein's control.

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Re: The Harvey List

#108 Post by Bob78164 » Wed Dec 13, 2017 1:47 pm

flockofseagulls104 wrote:Isn't it wonderful that accusations in the media have saved us so much hassle and taxpayer money! No need to go through expensive trials or giving the accused the right to question or even sometimes to know who their accusers are. What a waste of time presuming these scumbags are innocent. If you're accused, you're guilty! No jail time. That costs money. Just lose your career and your reputation. (Unless you're a democrat/liberal. Then you just need to wait a year or so and you'll be back). Perhaps we should extend this new standard of justice to other areas besides sexual harassment (whatever the legal definition of that is at this point).

Just a discussion point. No need to be offended......
We make hiring and firing decisions on incomplete information all the time. This one was easy. (Given Moore's history of blatant disregard for the law when he was Chief Justice of Alabama, it should have been easy even without the allegations of improper sexual conduct.) The original Washington Post story was as thoroughly sourced and credible as any story I've ever seen. If you don't find it at least sufficiently persuasive to make a hiring decision, I can only conclude it's because for reasons of partisanship or pure orneriness you're actively looking for reasons to disbelieve the women. Fortunately, enough Alabama voters didn't see it that way. --Bob
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Re: The Harvey List

#109 Post by Bob78164 » Wed Dec 13, 2017 1:47 pm

ghostjmf wrote:Read Salma Hayek's NYT piece about what it took, even avoiding his physical abuse, to get her life's-ambition movie "Frida", about artist Frida Kalo, produced under Weinstein's control.
I'm not familiar with that piece. Could you provide a link? Thanks. --Bob
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Re: The Harvey List

#110 Post by Bob Juch » Wed Dec 13, 2017 1:50 pm

Bob78164 wrote:
ghostjmf wrote:Read Salma Hayek's NYT piece about what it took, even avoiding his physical abuse, to get her life's-ambition movie "Frida", about artist Frida Kalo, produced under Weinstein's control.
I'm not familiar with that piece. Could you provide a link? Thanks. --Bob
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Re: The Harvey List

#111 Post by flockofseagulls104 » Wed Dec 13, 2017 2:07 pm

The original Washington Post story was as thoroughly sourced and credible as any story I've ever seen.


I'm glad you think that, and you may be the ultimate authority of credibility (though I would like to see your official credentials), but it's still trial by the press, not the law, bob. You, of all people, should realize that.
If you don't find it at least sufficiently persuasive to make a hiring decision, I can only conclude it's because for reasons of partisanship or pure orneriness you're actively looking for reasons to disbelieve the women. Fortunately, enough Alabama voters didn't see it that way.
It doesn't matter one bit whether I believe or disbelieve the women, or believe or disbelieve Moore. I JUST DON'T KNOW! And neither do you, bob. You have a strong opinion. That is ALL you have. And in most of the cases in the Harvey list, that is all anyone has except the two people involved. And even then, there are possibly conflicting opinions on what actually happened.

I will still point back to Kennedy and Clinton as the epitome of partisanship on this subject. I am looking at this from a legal and cultural viewpoint and I don't care about the political persuasion of the accused. Franken and Conyers were both tried and convicted by the press and the PC mob as well. I think this is dangerous.
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Re: The Harvey List

#112 Post by Bob78164 » Wed Dec 13, 2017 3:55 pm

flockofseagulls104 wrote:
The original Washington Post story was as thoroughly sourced and credible as any story I've ever seen.


I'm glad you think that, and you may be the ultimate authority of credibility (though I would like to see your official credentials), but it's still trial by the press, not the law, bob. You, of all people, should realize that.
If you don't find it at least sufficiently persuasive to make a hiring decision, I can only conclude it's because for reasons of partisanship or pure orneriness you're actively looking for reasons to disbelieve the women. Fortunately, enough Alabama voters didn't see it that way.
It doesn't matter one bit whether I believe or disbelieve the women, or believe or disbelieve Moore. I JUST DON'T KNOW! And neither do you, bob. You have a strong opinion. That is ALL you have. And in most of the cases in the Harvey list, that is all anyone has except the two people involved. And even then, there are possibly conflicting opinions on what actually happened.

I will still point back to Kennedy and Clinton as the epitome of partisanship on this subject. I am looking at this from a legal and cultural viewpoint and I don't care about the political persuasion of the accused. Franken and Conyers were both tried and convicted by the press and the PC mob as well. I think this is dangerous.
It sounds like the alternative you're suggesting is that these people pay no political price at all until and unless the accusations are tried in a court of law. That's not realistic, it's not practical, and it's not a good idea. My political and financial support will be guided by my belief or disbelief in similar accusations, and that, in turn, will be guided by the information provided to me (including its source) and my decades of experience on the planet (sometimes known as common sense).

I believe the women who stated that Roy Moore like to date teenaged girls, at least one of whom was underaged, when he was a Deputy District Attorney in his thirties. If I hadn't already contributed to his opponent, those revelations would have induced me to do so.

I believe the women who described conduct engaged in my Senator Franken that, in my view, is completely unacceptable, albeit not on the same level as Moore's. That belief cost him my political and financial support and might well have led to my supporting his opponent in 2020 if he had run for re-election. I'm glad he accepted responsibility for his acts by resigning his position and if in 2018 the people of Minnesota elect a Republican to that seat, that's a price I'm willing to pay.

If you choose to ignore such information, you're entitled to act on your beliefs. But don't expect me (or, judging from the Alabama results and the Minnesota polls, many other people) to join you. --Bob
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Re: The Harvey List

#113 Post by flockofseagulls104 » Wed Dec 13, 2017 7:53 pm

As has been shown many times,(Duke, Rolling Stone, Hillary Clinton), the accusers in these situations have overwhelmingly been given the benefit of the doubt. Perhaps the press and PC mob could do some REAL investigation before publicizing accusations.
Would you be in favor of substantial fines and jail time for anyone who is suspected (using circumstantial believable evidence) of making a fraudulent accusation? I say suspected because most times their accusations can't be proven either.
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Re: The Harvey List

#114 Post by Bob Juch » Wed Dec 13, 2017 9:16 pm

Add Tavis Smiley to the list.
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Re: The Harvey List

#115 Post by ghostjmf » Wed Dec 13, 2017 10:23 pm

Y'all haven't heard anything bad about the late Fred Rogers, have you?

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Re: The Harvey List

#116 Post by Vandal » Wed Dec 13, 2017 10:25 pm

Kentucky state lawmaker kills himself after denying sexual misconduct allegations: report

A Kentucky state representative accused of molesting a teenage girl has killed himself, according to WDRB.com in Louisville.

Rep. Dan Johnson, a Republican, reportedly shot and killed himself on a bridge in Mt. Washington, Ky. The gun was recovered by police, according to WDRB.

The Kentucky Center for Investigative Reporting published an expose on Monday detailing allegations that Johnson forced himself on a 17-year-old friend of his daughter after a New Year's Eve Party in 2012.

http://thehill.com/homenews/news/364829 ... ions-repor
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Re: The Harvey List

#117 Post by ghostjmf » Wed Dec 13, 2017 10:32 pm

Late night/overnight PBS (there are 5 broadcast PBS stations in Boston) is going to be all cooking shows. With some travel thrown in. Got anything on Rick Steves?

On cable somewhere is going to arise a channel of intimidators &/or pervs who did good interviews. Probably interviews already in the can because no-one wants to be on for new ones.

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Re: The Harvey List

#118 Post by Pastor Fireball » Thu Dec 14, 2017 5:59 am

Vandal wrote:Kentucky state lawmaker kills himself after denying sexual misconduct allegations: report

A Kentucky state representative accused of molesting a teenage girl has killed himself, according to WDRB.com in Louisville.

Rep. Dan Johnson, a Republican, reportedly shot and killed himself on a bridge in Mt. Washington, Ky. The gun was recovered by police, according to WDRB.

The Kentucky Center for Investigative Reporting published an expose on Monday detailing allegations that Johnson forced himself on a 17-year-old friend of his daughter after a New Year's Eve Party in 2012.

http://thehill.com/homenews/news/364829 ... ions-repor
The Kentucky GOP has been a total cesspool over the past two months. Johnson was one of about five Republican legislators who got caught with their pants down--including House Speaker Jeff Hoover, who resigned his leadership position after just getting the job in January.
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Re: The Harvey List

#119 Post by silverscreenselect » Thu Dec 14, 2017 8:40 am

flockofseagulls104 wrote:As has been shown many times,(Duke, Rolling Stone, Hillary Clinton), the accusers in these situations have overwhelmingly been given the benefit of the doubt. Perhaps the press and PC mob could do some REAL investigation before publicizing accusations.
Would you be in favor of substantial fines and jail time for anyone who is suspected (using circumstantial believable evidence) of making a fraudulent accusation? I say suspected because most times their accusations can't be proven either.
The press did some real investigating before publishing the Roy Moore story. They also did some real investigating before they declined to publish the hoax story that Veritas was attempting to put over on them.

Bob is right; we make hiring and firing decisions all the time based on incomplete information, sometimes much, much skimpier than what's been published here. Mistakes will happen, but the current atmosphere is far better than what was going on up to a few months ago when many abused and harassed women (and men) stayed quiet for decades because of fear or shame. As for accusers "overwhelmingly" being given the benefit of the doubt, history shows that these types of accusations are "overwhelmingly" true. The women who accused Moore are in their 50s and beyond, many of them Republicans and Trump supporters. Do you think they wanted to put themselves in the public spotlight and endure what they've gone through just for publicity or a chance to make a few bucks?

This isn't a court of law. Roy Moore will never face criminal prosecution or, in all likelihood, a civil trial for what he did, thanks to statutes of limitations. Neither will many of the other unmasked predators. But what we see is a pattern. Once one accuser comes forward, others do independently, making it much tougher to deny what happened. Further, people who knew those involved often corroborate portions of the stories. But none of that will happen unless and until someone comes forward the first time.

The question should be whether our society is better off if one or two celebrities have to endure some bad publicity or if hundreds of abused victims have to remain in the shadows while their abusers continue to harm others knowing that for all practical purposes they won't get caught.
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Re: The Harvey List

#120 Post by Bob78164 » Thu Dec 14, 2017 10:34 am

silverscreenselect wrote:
flockofseagulls104 wrote:As has been shown many times,(Duke, Rolling Stone, Hillary Clinton), the accusers in these situations have overwhelmingly been given the benefit of the doubt. Perhaps the press and PC mob could do some REAL investigation before publicizing accusations.
Would you be in favor of substantial fines and jail time for anyone who is suspected (using circumstantial believable evidence) of making a fraudulent accusation? I say suspected because most times their accusations can't be proven either.
The press did some real investigating before publishing the Roy Moore story. They also did some real investigating before they declined to publish the hoax story that Veritas was attempting to put over on them.
And Chuck Schumer is doing a pretty good job defending himself against the hoax story that someone is trying to push. --Bob
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Re: The Harvey List

#121 Post by flockofseagulls104 » Thu Dec 14, 2017 10:44 am

The press did some real investigating before publishing the Roy Moore story. They also did some real investigating before they declined to publish the hoax story that Veritas was attempting to put over on them.
The reality that you guys ignore is that the main stream media is proven to be biased. There is overwhelming evidence that the 'press' is swayed toward the left. So we want to have people's livelihood and reputations judged by the left wing media? I'm sure that's ok with you.
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Re: The Harvey List

#122 Post by silverscreenselect » Thu Dec 14, 2017 10:46 am

flockofseagulls104 wrote:
The press did some real investigating before publishing the Roy Moore story. They also did some real investigating before they declined to publish the hoax story that Veritas was attempting to put over on them.
There is overwhelming evidence that the 'press' is swayed toward the left.
That "overwhelming" evidence seems to exist fairly exclusively with right wing websites and commentators. And it's not as if the people being condemned: Moore, Franken, Weinstein, Spacey and the others don't have considerable resources at their disposal to refute such allegations if false. Yet the attempted defenses Moore made were so pathetically weak that even your buddy Sean Hannity didn't buy them at first (until he realized that the Senate seat might be at stake), and the most any of the others have come up with is often lame denials.
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Re: The Harvey List

#123 Post by Pastor Fireball » Thu Dec 14, 2017 11:01 am

flockofseagulls104 wrote:
The press did some real investigating before publishing the Roy Moore story. They also did some real investigating before they declined to publish the hoax story that Veritas was attempting to put over on them.
The reality that you guys ignore is that the main stream media is proven to be biased. There is overwhelming evidence that the 'press' is swayed toward the left. So we want to have people's livelihood and reputations judged by the left wing media? I'm sure that's ok with you.
Not their fault that the truth has a well-known liberal bias.
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Re: The Harvey List

#124 Post by ghostjmf » Thu Dec 14, 2017 11:55 am

WGBH & WGBX have found some talky political filler-show, 3rd Rail* (with 2 Afrtican American hosts, one asking Qs of left-wing guest & one asking right-winger) for Smiley's slot, & local-view talk show that initially airs much earlier for Rose's.

Smiley in releases to the press says he's fighting back; he'd written himself about his temper tantrums In his autobiography & need to control them "because you're always being watched", claims any sex with subordinate(s) was consensual & is in the past & that he learned what charges were from the Variety article, not PBS, which told him nothing.

His rebuttal doesn't cover Variety's reporting about some woman accompanying him on trips who he introduced to co-workers as his "f*ckbuddy", though.

*for those in places without a subway, the 3rd rail is the electrified one

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Re: The Harvey List

#125 Post by Bob78164 » Thu Dec 14, 2017 1:39 pm

flockofseagulls104 wrote:As has been shown many times,(Duke, Rolling Stone, Hillary Clinton), the accusers in these situations have overwhelmingly been given the benefit of the doubt. Perhaps the press and PC mob could do some REAL investigation before publicizing accusations.
Would you be in favor of substantial fines and jail time for anyone who is suspected (using circumstantial believable evidence) of making a fraudulent accusation? I say suspected because most times their accusations can't be proven either.
That's what the civil justice system is for. Speaking is almost never subject to criminal liability. False and defamatory statements (with appropriate exceptions for excusable mistakes) are properly subject to civil liability for libel and slander. I'm not gonna hold my breath, though, before Roy Moore sues the women for defaming him. Because truth is a defense. --Bob
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