WWTBAM Bored

know whether the number of barrels of oil used in connection with moving a vehicle a certain distance using gasoline (or diesel, for that matter) is more than the number of barrels of oil that would be used in connection with moving a vehicle that same distance if ethanol derived from corn were to be used, taking into account all of the barrels used in every aspect of producing and utilizing that ethanol?

I'm not asking about the economic factors here, just about the quantity of oil.

wbtravis007 wrote:know whether the number of barrels of oil used in connection with moving a vehicle a certain distance using gasoline (or diesel, for that matter) is more than the number of barrels of oil that would be used in connection with moving a vehicle that same distance if ethanol derived from corn were to be used, taking into account all of the barrels used in every aspect of producing and utilizing that ethanol?

I'm not asking about the economic factors here, just about the quantity of oil.

Yes

Rexer25 wrote:

wbtravis007 wrote:know whether the number of barrels of oil used in connection with moving a vehicle a certain distance using gasoline (or diesel, for that matter) is more than the number of barrels of oil that would be used in connection with moving a vehicle that same distance if ethanol derived from corn were to be used, taking into account all of the barrels used in every aspect of producing and utilizing that ethanol?

I'm not asking about the economic factors here, just about the quantity of oil.

Yes

Is it?

wbtravis007 wrote:

Rexer25 wrote:

wbtravis007 wrote:know whether the number of barrels of oil used in connection with moving a vehicle a certain distance using gasoline (or diesel, for that matter) is more than the number of barrels of oil that would be used in connection with moving a vehicle that same distance if ethanol derived from corn were to be used, taking into account all of the barrels used in every aspect of producing and utilizing that ethanol?

I'm not asking about the economic factors here, just about the quantity of oil.

Yes

Is it?

I just meant one of the know-it-all on this bored knows the answer.

From what I've heard, and from that that which I remember, and from that that which I understand, in terms of energy used and energy produced, ethanol does not give back what it takes to produce.

I don't know how to put that in terms of barrels of oil.

Rexer25 wrote:

wbtravis007 wrote:

Rexer25 wrote: Yes

Is it?

I just meant one of the know-it-all on this bored knows the answer.

Which one?

wbtravis007 wrote:

Rexer25 wrote:

wbtravis007 wrote: Is it?

I just meant one of the know-it-all on this bored knows the answer.

Which one?

I don't know, so I guess I'm not one of the know-it-alls.

But this thread prolly puts me in the smart-alecs.

wbtravis007 wrote:know whether the number of barrels of oil used in connection with moving a vehicle a certain distance using gasoline (or diesel, for that matter) is more than the number of barrels of oil that would be used in connection with moving a vehicle that same distance if ethanol derived from corn were to be used, taking into account all of the barrels used in every aspect of producing and utilizing that ethanol?

I'm not asking about the economic factors here, just about the quantity of oil.

If I understand your question correctly, you're asking if the oil used to produce gasoline plus that refined to make the gasoline itself is more or less than the amount of oil to produce the equivalent quantity of ethanol from corn.

There are too many variables to consider, but I expect that corn ethanol takes more. There are other sources of ethanol that would take much less however.

Rexer25 wrote:

wbtravis007 wrote:

Rexer25 wrote:
I just meant one of the know-it-all on this bored knows the answer.

Which one?

I don't know, so I guess I'm not one of the know-it-alls.

But this thread prolly puts me in the smart-alecs.

ICM!

I enjoyed all of your responses, Rex.

I'll also say this: I know I'm not the only one around here who misses the hell out of our smart Alex.

Bob Juch wrote:

wbtravis007 wrote:know whether the number of barrels of oil used in connection with moving a vehicle a certain distance using gasoline (or diesel, for that matter) is more than the number of barrels of oil that would be used in connection with moving a vehicle that same distance if ethanol derived from corn were to be used, taking into account all of the barrels used in every aspect of producing and utilizing that ethanol?

I'm not asking about the economic factors here, just about the quantity of oil.

If I understand your question correctly, you're asking if the oil used to produce gasoline plus that refined to make the gasoline itself is more or less than the amount of oil to produce the equivalent quantity of ethanol from corn.

There are too many variables to consider, but I expect that corn ethanol takes more. There are other sources of ethanol that would take much less however.

The answer to my question does require taking into account many things, but I don't see that they would involve all that many variables (your word).

Are you saying that you don't know the answer?

wbtravis007 wrote:

Bob Juch wrote:

wbtravis007 wrote:know whether the number of barrels of oil used in connection with moving a vehicle a certain distance using gasoline (or diesel, for that matter) is more than the number of barrels of oil that would be used in connection with moving a vehicle that same distance if ethanol derived from corn were to be used, taking into account all of the barrels used in every aspect of producing and utilizing that ethanol?

I'm not asking about the economic factors here, just about the quantity of oil.

If I understand your question correctly, you're asking if the oil used to produce gasoline plus that refined to make the gasoline itself is more or less than the amount of oil to produce the equivalent quantity of ethanol from corn.

There are too many variables to consider, but I expect that corn ethanol takes more. There are other sources of ethanol that would take much less however.

The answer to my question does require taking into account many things, but I don't see that they would involve all that many variables (your word).

Are you saying that you don't know the answer?

so funny.

like that is gonna happen

wbtravis007 wrote:

Rexer25 wrote:

wbtravis007 wrote: Which one?

I don't know, so I guess I'm not one of the know-it-alls.

But this thread prolly puts me in the smart-alecs.

ICM!

I enjoyed all of your responses, Rex.

I'll also say this: I know I'm not the only one around here who misses the hell out of our smart Alex.

Did we have one of those?

peacock2121 wrote:

wbtravis007 wrote:

Rexer25 wrote: I don't know, so I guess I'm not one of the know-it-alls.

But this thread prolly puts me in the smart-alecs.

ICM!

I enjoyed all of your responses, Rex.

I'll also say this: I know I'm not the only one around here who misses the hell out of our smart Alex.

Did we have one of those?

Nobody I know....

peacock2121 wrote:

wbtravis007 wrote:

Bob Juch wrote: If I understand your question correctly, you're asking if the oil used to produce gasoline plus that refined to make the gasoline itself is more or less than the amount of oil to produce the equivalent quantity of ethanol from corn.

There are too many variables to consider, but I expect that corn ethanol takes more. There are other sources of ethanol that would take much less however.

The answer to my question does require taking into account many things, but I don't see that they would involve all that many variables (your word).

Are you saying that you don't know the answer?

so funny.

like that is gonna happen

I figured you'd appreciate that.

wbtravis007 wrote:

peacock2121 wrote:

wbtravis007 wrote: The answer to my question does require taking into account many things, but I don't see that they would involve all that many variables (your word).

Are you saying that you don't know the answer?

so funny.

like that is gonna happen

I figured you'd appreciate that.

I can be predictable, can't I?

How far can a car go on a barrel of BDM's partners hair gel?

wbtravis007 wrote:

Bob Juch wrote:

wbtravis007 wrote:know whether the number of barrels of oil used in connection with moving a vehicle a certain distance using gasoline (or diesel, for that matter) is more than the number of barrels of oil that would be used in connection with moving a vehicle that same distance if ethanol derived from corn were to be used, taking into account all of the barrels used in every aspect of producing and utilizing that ethanol?

I'm not asking about the economic factors here, just about the quantity of oil.

If I understand your question correctly, you're asking if the oil used to produce gasoline plus that refined to make the gasoline itself is more or less than the amount of oil to produce the equivalent quantity of ethanol from corn.

There are too many variables to consider, but I expect that corn ethanol takes more. There are other sources of ethanol that would take much less however.

The answer to my question does require taking into account many things, but I don't see that they would involve all that many variables (your word).

Are you saying that you don't know the answer?

Right. And yes, there are a lot of variables. Do we count the fuel it takes for the workers to drive to work? Do we count the fuel it takes to plow the fields, plant the seeds, and harvest the corn? Etc.

Bob Juch wrote:

wbtravis007 wrote:

Bob Juch wrote: If I understand your question correctly, you're asking if the oil used to produce gasoline plus that refined to make the gasoline itself is more or less than the amount of oil to produce the equivalent quantity of ethanol from corn.

There are too many variables to consider, but I expect that corn ethanol takes more. There are other sources of ethanol that would take much less however.

The answer to my question does require taking into account many things, but I don't see that they would involve all that many variables (your word).

Are you saying that you don't know the answer?

Right. And yes, there are a lot of variables. Do we count the fuel it takes for the workers to drive to work? Do we count the fuel it takes to plow the fields, plant the seeds, and harvest the corn? Etc.

There would be a lot of variables involved if you were trying to analyze the number of barrels of oil involved in moving a certain vehicle or set of vehicles where ethanol was involved vs. where it wasn't. I guess my question was a little confusing in that respect.

Anyway, yes, I'm asking about all of the things that you mentioned (and many others), except for the fuel that it takes for the workers to drive to work. My question is really about averages. I'm not wanting to take into account factors about how good of a yield per acre a particular farmer might happen to get during a particular year or what his fertilizer or chemical (or other petroleum-derived things) usage was on that particular crop, or how far a particular farmer would have to transport that corn, or any other variables like that.

I'd compare my question to one about the number of barrels of oil that it would take to produce fuel to power a vehicle with gasoline only, if I was just looking for an estimate based on averages -- not wanting to take into accout variables such as the grade of that particular barrel of crude oil or the octane level of a particular gallon of gas, but wanting to take into account as many of the many, many, many factors (based on averages and estimates) involved as possible.

I know that this has been analyzed, and thought that someone here might either know or be able to point me to studies that address this. (Of course, I realize that there are probably studies that support any result that one might want to promote, but still.)

Why don't you do the research, like you're asking others to do?

silvercamaro wrote:Why don't you do the research, like you're asking others to do?

I am doing the research. This is my first resource.

I'm not asking anybody to do anything that they don't want to do.

This reminds me. What are you doing noonish tomorrow?

wbtravis007 wrote:

Bob Juch wrote:

wbtravis007 wrote: The answer to my question does require taking into account many things, but I don't see that they would involve all that many variables (your word).

Are you saying that you don't know the answer?

Right. And yes, there are a lot of variables. Do we count the fuel it takes for the workers to drive to work? Do we count the fuel it takes to plow the fields, plant the seeds, and harvest the corn? Etc.

There would be a lot of variables involved if you were trying to analyze the number of barrels of oil involved in moving a certain vehicle or set of vehicles where ethanol was involved vs. where it wasn't. I guess my question was a little confusing in that respect.

Anyway, yes, I'm asking about all of the things that you mentioned (and many others), except for the fuel that it takes for the workers to drive to work. My question is really about averages. I'm not wanting to take into account factors about how good of a yield per acre a particular farmer might happen to get during a particular year or what his fertilizer or chemical (or other petroleum-derived things) usage was on that particular crop, or how far a particular farmer would have to transport that corn, or any other variables like that.

I'd compare my question to one about the number of barrels of oil that it would take to produce fuel to power a vehicle with gasoline only, if I was just looking for an estimate based on averages -- not wanting to take into accout variables such as the grade of that particular barrel of crude oil or the octane level of a particular gallon of gas, but wanting to take into account as many of the many, many, many factors (based on averages and estimates) involved as possible.

I know that this has been analyzed, and thought that someone here might either know or be able to point me to studies that address this. (Of course, I realize that there are probably studies that support any result that one might want to promote, but still.)

Well, why don't you accept what Bob Juch said, as he is correc that there are too many variables to get any answer that technically covers all of the permutations. There are "reports" that say that it takes more oil to produce ethanol than the ethanol will replace (something in the magnitude of 1.3 barrels to 1 barrel), but there are other studies that say the opposite (ethanol saves oil, and the newest methods of corn ethanol production actually conserve energy.)

Anyway, as one example, you have the issue of the oil needed to plant, harvest, and transport the corn. However, one must consider whether those acres of corn would have been produced anyway, for food rather than fuel. If so, then you can not consider the fuel in that endeavor as "an additional oil cost for producing ethanol."

If you want a definitive answer, then you need to accept "Who knows" and "It depends" as the answers that you seek.

Or, get off your brain and let things up for yourself.

Appa23 wrote:

wbtravis007 wrote:

Bob Juch wrote: Right. And yes, there are a lot of variables. Do we count the fuel it takes for the workers to drive to work? Do we count the fuel it takes to plow the fields, plant the seeds, and harvest the corn? Etc.

There would be a lot of variables involved if you were trying to analyze the number of barrels of oil involved in moving a certain vehicle or set of vehicles where ethanol was involved vs. where it wasn't. I guess my question was a little confusing in that respect.

Anyway, yes, I'm asking about all of the things that you mentioned (and many others), except for the fuel that it takes for the workers to drive to work. My question is really about averages. I'm not wanting to take into account factors about how good of a yield per acre a particular farmer might happen to get during a particular year or what his fertilizer or chemical (or other petroleum-derived things) usage was on that particular crop, or how far a particular farmer would have to transport that corn, or any other variables like that.

I'd compare my question to one about the number of barrels of oil that it would take to produce fuel to power a vehicle with gasoline only, if I was just looking for an estimate based on averages -- not wanting to take into accout variables such as the grade of that particular barrel of crude oil or the octane level of a particular gallon of gas, but wanting to take into account as many of the many, many, many factors (based on averages and estimates) involved as possible.

I know that this has been analyzed, and thought that someone here might either know or be able to point me to studies that address this. (Of course, I realize that there are probably studies that support any result that one might want to promote, but still.)

Well, why don't you accept what Bob Juch said, as he is correc that there are too many variables to get any answer that technically covers all of the permutations. There are "reports" that say that it takes more oil to produce ethanol than the ethanol will replace (something in the magnitude of 1.3 barrels to 1 barrel), but there are other studies that say the opposite (ethanol saves oil, and the newest methods of corn ethanol production actually conserve energy.)

Anyway, as one example, you have the issue of the oil needed to plant, harvest, and transport the corn. However, one must consider whether those acres of corn would have been produced anyway, for food rather than fuel. If so, then you can not consider the fuel in that endeavor as "an additional oil cost for producing ethanol."

If you want a definitive answer, then you need to accept "Who knows" and "It depends" as the answers that you seek.

Or, get off your brain and let things up for yourself.

I don't understand this at all:

Or, get off your brain and let things up for yourself.

In response to the rest of your post, I'm just gonna say that you don't seem to get what I'm asking for.

I was tired.

It should have said, "Get off your brain and look things up for yourself."

I absolutely understood your initial post.

Appa23 wrote:I was tired.

It should have said, "Get off your brain and look things up for yourself."

I absolutely understood your initial post.

No. It's obvious from your post that you didn't, and don't.


Man, no wonder you have dumb friends.