RIP Robert Horton

[T_Bone0806]

of "Wagon Train" fame...didn't see it here, thought I'd keep your D or A info up to date..

http://variety.com/2016/tv/news/robert- ... 201730599/

[Vandal]

I wonder if he ever got to listen to Daltrey, Townsnend, Entwhistle and Moon play.

[earendel]

One of the groomsmen at my wedding was Robert (Bob) Holton. His family ran a moving company in Oklahoma City and he helped move elwing and me into our first Rivendell. My Bob passed away two years ago.

[Estonut]

I wonder if he ever got to listen to Daltrey, Townsnend, Entwhistle and Moon play.

You son-of-a-bitch! Being a big fan of the 'oo, I read Horton's obituary, wiki page and had almost completed his IMDB page when it hit me. It's a 'oo, not the 'oo.

[Vandal]

I wonder if he ever got to listen to Daltrey, Townsnend, Entwhistle and Moon play.

You son-of-a-bitch! Being a big fan of the 'oo, I read Horton's obituary, wiki page and had almost completed his IMDB page when it hit me. It's a 'oo, not the 'oo.

[SportsFan68]

Wagon Train was must-see TV at the SprotsParents household. We were totally engaged with every story line. My brother once timed the show with a stopwatch to see if the commercials took away as much as we thought they did. It was worse! He deducted for everything, including opening and closing credits. 25 minutes! I shudder to think what I'd get if I timed Major Crimes. Now they start the story running under the opening credits, so it's probably about the same.

I adored Robert Horton and Robert Fulton, of course -- tall, handsome brunettes, and I can't believe how much of what I saw on that screen I believed to be true. (Flinch.)

That show is where I learned the word insipid. IIRC, McIntyre (Ward Bond's replacement) was ribbing Charlie Wooster (I didn't remember that, I had to look it up, and I don't know if McIntyre is the character name or the actor's name) about his insipid coffee, making it sound like a compliment.

Those deep ruts are still visible across the Colorado and New Mexico prairies, probably Wyoming and Idaho too. It was an amazing time in our history.

[Evil Squirrel]

Can I be insipid too?

[SportsFan68]

Mangy rodents are definitely insipid.

[President Chump]

Mangy rodents...... get 'em OUTTA HERE!!!

[Estonut]

That show is where I learned the word insipid. IIRC, McIntyre (Ward Bond's replacement) was ribbing Charlie Wooster (I didn't remember that, I had to look it up, and I don't know if McIntyre is the character name or the actor's name) about his insipid coffee, making it sound like a compliment.

I was going to say that I thought they weren't making the best use of it, as I had only seen it used in the unimaginative, uninspired, dull or drab context before. I didn't know the main meaning is lacking flavor. Thanks, Sprots, for an unintended "Word of the Day."

Those deep ruts are still visible across the Colorado and New Mexico prairies, probably Wyoming and Idaho too. It was an amazing time in our history.

There is a great show on the Smithsonian Channel called "Aerial America." Each episode focuses on one state, or, occasionally, 2 small ones. Their gimmick is that all points of interest are shown from the air, filmed from planes, helicopters and, now, drones (I think). Many episodes have shown the ruts created in those states during westward movement.

[silverscreenselect]

Wagon Train was must-see TV at the SprotsParents household. We were totally engaged with every story line. My brother once timed the show with a stopwatch to see if the commercials took away as much as we thought they did. It was worse! He deducted for everything, including opening and closing credits. 25 minutes! I shudder to think what I'd get if I timed Major Crimes. Now they start the story running under the opening credits, so it's probably about the same.

I don't know how your brother got those figures. If you watch hour-long TV shows from the 1950's and early 60's, like Perry Mason, on DVD or streaming video, you can see that one-hour episodes ran 52 or 53 minutes. And very little of that was the stock montages that they run today as transitional shots (showing the people on CSI doing all the lab work, for example). Instead, you would see a two-second picture of Perry's office door so you would know that's where the next scene was set. This has gradually shrunk. By the 1980's, shows ran about 47-48 minutes, and now they run 42-43 minutes and sometimes as little as 40 minutes (check out the running time on Hulu or Netflix). And, in addition to the transitional material, you'll get a minute or so of recap at the beginning of the show ("previously on...").

That's why you get so much long form storytelling on TV. Back then, in 52 minutes, you could introduce an episode's guest stars, set up a backstory, have them interact with the series' stars, and let the entire story resolve itself in 52 minutes. Even today, you can watch episodes from just about any season in any order and not miss a thing. Now, script writers have to cut corners so the guest stars are pretty much stock characters, unless they are part of a long term story arc. You do get a lot of character development, but it takes place over the course of a season, or in some cases an entire series.

[littlebeast13]

Wagon Train was must-see TV at the SprotsParents household. We were totally engaged with every story line. My brother once timed the show with a stopwatch to see if the commercials took away as much as we thought they did. It was worse! He deducted for everything, including opening and closing credits. 25 minutes! I shudder to think what I'd get if I timed Major Crimes. Now they start the story running under the opening credits, so it's probably about the same.

I don't know how your brother got those figures. If you watch hour-long TV shows from the 1950's and early 60's, like Perry Mason, on DVD or streaming video, you can see that one-hour episodes ran 52 or 53 minutes. And very little of that was the stock montages that they run today as transitional shots (showing the people on CSI doing all the lab work, for example). Instead, you would see a two-second picture of Perry's office door so you would know that's where the next scene was set. This has gradually shrunk. By the 1980's, shows ran about 47-48 minutes, and now they run 42-43 minutes and sometimes as little as 40 minutes (check out the running time on Hulu or Netflix). And, in addition to the transitional material, you'll get a minute or so of recap at the beginning of the show ("previously on...").

That's why you get so much long form storytelling on TV. Back then, in 52 minutes, you could introduce an episode's guest stars, set up a backstory, have them interact with the series' stars, and let the entire story resolve itself in 52 minutes. Even today, you can watch episodes from just about any season in any order and not miss a thing. Now, script writers have to cut corners so the guest stars are pretty much stock characters, unless they are part of a long term story arc. You do get a lot of character development, but it takes place over the course of a season, or in some cases an entire series.

When I was breaking down the recording of my WWTBAM episode for my blog a couple years ago, I noted that the actual running time of the hour long show was 42 minutes and some-odd seconds. I'd have gotten a third FF question had we been on PBS...

lb13

[SportsFan68]

I don't know how your brother got those figures.

He timed it. I repeat, he deducted for everything that wasn't actually the program, including the opening and closing credits.

If I remember, I'll try it on Major Crimes Monday evening.

[SportsFan68]

I have to clarify something before I do any timing. He deducted 25 minutes. That made the show's run time 35 minutes. I can see I've been saying it rong.

[silverscreenselect]

I have to clarify something before I do any timing. He deducted 25 minutes. That made the show's run time 35 minutes. I can see I've been saying it rong.

There are a number of Wagon Train episodes on YouTube, including the one below. Although I didn't check them all out, it seems that the uncut episodes are about 50 minutes long. If you check this one, there are about 2-3 minutes of opening and closing credits. Some of the episodes on YouTube are several minutes shorter. They were likely recorded off broadcast channels in more recent years. When that happens, they invariably edit the episode down from its original length, either by time compression or by editing scenes out, in order to get more commercials in a one-hour slot.

Now if your brother also deducted "dead time," things like establishing and transitional stock footage shots, that could easily cut more time off an episode.

BTW, YouTube has tons of old TV episodes available of a lot of different shows. Some of these are in the public domain, and others are bootlegs, and, obviously running time and quality vary widely, but I've found stuff I never thought I'd see again.