WWTBAM Bored

This article is about the VW scandal. Here's the part I found most interesting: The West Virginia researchers found the discrepancy and publicly reported it approximately a year ago. When they did, the automotive press missed the significance. The EPA, however, got it right.

Sometimes government works. This was one of those times. --Bob

Depends on your point of view.

The Three Laws are enough Robots don't need more requlation!

Requlation caused the problem. Got luck getting VW diesel owner to let them "fix" their cars.

Bob78164 wrote:This article is about the VW scandal. Here's the part I found most interesting: The West Virginia researchers found the discrepancy and publicly reported it approximately a year ago. When they did, the automotive press missed the significance. The EPA, however, got it right.

Sometimes government works. This was one of those times. --Bob

How much credit can we give to a government agency that didn't realize there was a problem until it was uncovered by researchers from a second-tier state university*? Why didn't the EPA do even random testing on its own to discover if the automotive manufacturers had "earned" the billions of dollars awarded by the government for meeting environmental goals? Are other automotive manuafacturers still out here, holding their corporate collective breath, afraid that they too might be uncovered for fudging the standards, remaining quiet, and collecting their checks? Are the standards of those regulations reasonable or even obtainable? I don't know. I'm not sure if anybody at the EPA does, either, nor can I be certain that this "gotcha" for Volkswagen was not unveiled to try to distract from that recent EPA failure, the horrendous environmental damage and release of toxic heavy metals in Colorado's Animas River and downstream across several states.



*I used the phrase "second-tier" to reflect the budget and numbers of faculty and students in the often misleading way that academia ranks colleges and universities, not to denigrate West Virginia and its public university. Apparently, the research faculty includes some first-rate engineers.

silvercamaro wrote:

Bob78164 wrote:This article is about the VW scandal. Here's the part I found most interesting: The West Virginia researchers found the discrepancy and publicly reported it approximately a year ago. When they did, the automotive press missed the significance. The EPA, however, got it right.

Sometimes government works. This was one of those times. --Bob

How much credit can we give to a government agency that didn't realize there was a problem until it was uncovered by researchers from a second-tier state university*? Why didn't the EPA do even random testing on its own to discover if the automotive manufacturers had "earned" the billions of dollars awarded by the government for meeting environmental goals? Are other automotive manuafacturers still out here, holding their corporate collective breath, afraid that they too might be uncovered for fudging the standards, remaining quiet, and collecting their checks? Are the standards of those regulations reasonable or even obtainable? I don't know. I'm not sure if anybody at the EPA does, either, nor can I be certain that this "gotcha" for Volkswagen was not unveiled to try to distract from that recent EPA failure, the horrendous environmental damage and release of toxic heavy metals in Colorado's Animas River and downstream across several states.



*I used the phrase "second-tier" to reflect the budget and numbers of faculty and students in the often misleading way that academia ranks colleges and universities, not to denigrate West Virginia and its public university. Apparently, the research faculty includes some first-rate engineers.

You really think the government should have anticipated that Volkswagen would write software specifically designed to circumvent its testing regime? Why should the government have thought of this possibility when none of VW's competitors, with a considerable profit motive to do so, thought of the possibility?

If other manufacturers are doing the same thing, I have little doubt they'll be caught now. Particularly with the very significant financial incentives provided by the False Claims Act. --Bob

Bob78164 wrote: Why should the government have thought of this possibility when none of VW's competitors, with a considerable profit motive to do so, thought of the possibility?

Really? How do you know they didn't? If VW's shenanigans were unknown until uncovered then likely other shenanigans are unknown until uncovered.

silvercamaro wrote:
How much credit can we give to a government agency that didn't realize there was a problem until it was uncovered by researchers from a second-tier state university*? Why didn't the EPA do even random testing on its own to discover if the automotive manufacturers had "earned" the billions of dollars awarded by the government for meeting environmental goals?

Well, one reason that comes to mind is that the government doesn't have an unlimited budget to properly do all the types of testing that would be involved, not just to uncover VW's (or its ompetitors" fraud), but all the other types of fraud, dishonesty, and corner cutting that creative unethical companies can come up with.

And when they do engage in testing, right wingers all over the place scream about how the government is stifling innovation, killing jobs, and wasting tons of taxpayer money.

BackInTex wrote:

Bob78164 wrote: Why should the government have thought of this possibility when none of VW's competitors, with a considerable profit motive to do so, thought of the possibility?

Really? How do you know they didn't? If VW's shenanigans were unknown until uncovered then likely other shenanigans are unknown until uncovered.

So you're advocating that we give the EPA a much larger budget to work with so they can do better testing?

silverscreenselect wrote:

BackInTex wrote:

Bob78164 wrote: Why should the government have thought of this possibility when none of VW's competitors, with a considerable profit motive to do so, thought of the possibility?

Really? How do you know they didn't? If VW's shenanigans were unknown until uncovered then likely other shenanigans are unknown until uncovered.

So you're advocating that we give the EPA a much larger budget to work with so they can do better testing?

No, just correcting the logic. Unknowns are not known until they are no longer unknown. Or, knowns are not known until no longer unknown.

There is a Yogi Berra phrase in there somewhere, but I wouldn't do it justice.

BackInTex wrote:

Bob78164 wrote: Why should the government have thought of this possibility when none of VW's competitors, with a considerable profit motive to do so, thought of the possibility?

Really? How do you know they didn't? If VW's shenanigans were unknown until uncovered then likely other shenanigans are unknown until uncovered.

If another manufacturer thought of the possibility that VW was cheating, it had lots of financial incentive to catch and expose VW. --Bob

Bob78164 wrote:

BackInTex wrote:

Bob78164 wrote: Why should the government have thought of this possibility when none of VW's competitors, with a considerable profit motive to do so, thought of the possibility?

Really? How do you know they didn't? If VW's shenanigans were unknown until uncovered then likely other shenanigans are unknown until uncovered.

If another manufacturer thought of the possibility that VW was cheating, it had lots of financial incentive to catch and expose VW. --Bob

Are you guys serious? Defeat devices have been known for at least 50 years. Other defeat devices are fairly new, but certainly not unheard of. It'ss not a new concept.

mrkelley23 wrote:

Bob78164 wrote:If another manufacturer thought of the possibility that VW was cheating, it had lots of financial incentive to catch and expose VW. --Bob

Are you guys serious? Defeat devices have been known for at least 50 years. Other defeat devices are fairly new, but certainly not unheard of. It'ss not a new concept.

This is different, though. The cars polluted in normal operation. This wasn't so much a defeat device as what you might call camouflage software -- it operated when, and only when, the cars were being tested, and it did so without any intervention from the operator. --Bob

Bob78164 wrote:

mrkelley23 wrote:

Bob78164 wrote:If another manufacturer thought of the possibility that VW was cheating, it had lots of financial incentive to catch and expose VW. --Bob

Are you guys serious? Defeat devices have been known for at least 50 years. Other defeat devices are fairly new, but certainly not unheard of. It'ss not a new concept.

This is different, though. The cars polluted in normal operation. This wasn't so much a defeat device as what you might call camouflage software -- it operated when, and only when, the cars were being tested, and it did so without any intervention from the operator. --Bob

Bob, did you really mean to write this? I had not heard about these sentient automobiles that somehow knew, without a doubt, when a pollution test was about to begin. Did they get a little sweaty under their fenders? Do Volkswagens have nervous dreams in which it's testing day but they aren't wearing any paint? I am impressed that robotic and automotive engineering have merged in such nefarious harmony.

silvercamaro wrote:

Bob78164 wrote:

mrkelley23 wrote:Are you guys serious? Defeat devices have been known for at least 50 years. Other defeat devices are fairly new, but certainly not unheard of. It'ss not a new concept.

This is different, though. The cars polluted in normal operation. This wasn't so much a defeat device as what you might call camouflage software -- it operated when, and only when, the cars were being tested, and it did so without any intervention from the operator. --Bob

Bob, did you really mean to write this? I had not heard about these sentient automobiles that somehow knew, without a doubt, when a pollution test was about to begin. Did they get a little sweaty under their fenders? Do Volkswagens have nervous dreams in which it's testing day but they aren't wearing any paint? I am impressed that robotic and automotive engineering have merged in such nefarious harmony.

Yes. Did you not read about how it worked? The software detected a very specific configuration of speeds and steering wheel positions as a "fingerprint" identifying testing, and when that configuration was encountered, operated in such a manner as to minimize pollution. Absent that configuration, the software returned to its dirty default mode. --Bob