WWTBAM Bored

I really don't have a dog in the Flag fight and if pressed I would probably agree that it belongs in museums/memorials etc and not as a gov't flag.

However, this argument against the flag made me tear my hair out.

I was driving around taking pics of land today for my (part-time) conservation job and I was listening off and on to Thom Hartmann, a liberal radio host.

He was making the argument that the flag at issue was the battle flag of the Army of Northern Virginia and therefore, South Carolina troops did not fight under that flag.

Say What???? Does he think that the Army of Northern Virginia was only composed of Northern Va troops.

Au Contraire-There were several regiments of SC troops in the order of battle at Gettysburg-plus whatever other regiments floated in and out of that army throughout the war.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gettysbur ... n_Virginia

During the great debate on removing the Confederate battle flag from the Georgia state flag, some critics called the Confederate flag the Stars and Bars. Excuse me, where are the bars? This is the Confederate Stars and Bars:



Here are the old and new Georgia flags:





So the Georgians fooled the Yankees and kept their Confederate Stars and Bars.

I hate hearing the "heritage" argument from people who defend the flag. I have lived in former Confederate states all my life, and separating from our country and fighting a war against it to try to preserve slavery, excuse me, "states' rights," is not a part of my heritage I am proud of.

elwoodblues wrote:I hate hearing the "heritage" argument from people who defend the flag. I have lived in former Confederate states all my life, and separating from our country and fighting a war against it to try to preserve slavery, excuse me, "states' rights," is not a part of my heritage I am proud of.

I made a comment on Facebook that the "heritage" was treason and have over 300 "likes" so far.

elwoodblues wrote:I hate hearing the "heritage" argument from people who defend the flag. I have lived in former Confederate states all my life, and separating from our country and fighting a war against it to try to preserve slavery, excuse me, "states' rights," is not a part of my heritage I am proud of.

I too wonder exactly what "heritage" these people are proud of. The Confederate States of America ranks right up there with Biafra as the greatest failure of a nation in world history.

A failure economically.
A failure politically.
A failure morally.
A failure socially.
A failure diplomatically.
A failure legally.

And, in less than four years, a failure militarily.

Plus, if you think about it, if the Confederacy had succeeded, which they might have with another Franklin Pierce or James Buchanan as President, the US would not be the preeminent world power it is today. Instead, we would probably be another Yugoslavia with about a half dozen or more "countries" occupying our portion of North America.

People who enjoy identifying with teams like the 1962 New York Mets at least realize they are celebrating losing. People who glorify the Confederacy are celebrating failure usually without realizing it. Other than the memories of ancestors who fought and in many cases died bravely, there is nothing to celebrate about the Confederacy.

Everything Elwood and SSS says is true, but I can understand the satisfaction E.B. Sledge got while fighting with the Marines on Okinawa that someone had flown the CBF* over Shuri Castle

http://www.amazon.com/Old-Breed-At-Pele ... bc?ie=UTF8

*The flag probably came from South Carolina's Julian Dusenbury and raised by his men after Dusenbury was wounded.

Bob Juch wrote:I made a comment on Facebook that the "heritage" was treason and have over 300 "likes" so far.

LOL. You must be so proud.

However, so is the heritage of the USA flag.

And the heritage of the Texas flag.

BackInTex wrote: LOL. You must be so proud.

I have yet to figure out anything that supporters of the Confederate flag have to be proud of.

BackInTex wrote:

Bob Juch wrote:I made a comment on Facebook that the "heritage" was treason and have over 300 "likes" so far.

LOL. You must be so proud.

However, so is the heritage of the USA flag.

And the heritage of the Texas flag.

If you rebel against the government and succeed it's a revolution; if you lose it's treason.

It's too bad that Walmart, Sears, eBay, Amazon, etc. are stopping selling Confederate flag merchandise. It will be harder to tell who the racist assholes are.

silverscreenselect wrote:

BackInTex wrote: LOL. You must be so proud.

I have yet to figure out anything that supporters of the Confederate flag have to be proud of.

That is not surprising. You might ask Bill and Hillary. I could tell you something but you wouldn't believe it. Maybe you'll believe them. You're about the only person who would as both, on a scale of 1 to 10, are a zero in credibility. And that number is getting lower.

But, to help you out with this confusing topic, they should be able to provide answers. If they can recall.....

As Governor, Bill Clinton Kept 'Confederate' Star On The Arkansas Flag

BackInTex wrote: I could tell you something but you wouldn't believe it.

I'm curious to know what you find praiseworthy about the Confederate States of America (other than some of the officers' uniforms; those dress grays are kind of spiffy).

Bob Juch wrote:It's too bad that Walmart, Sears, eBay, Amazon, etc. are stopping selling Confederate flag merchandise. It will be harder to tell who the racist assholes are.

Look in the mirror, pal.

I would be interested in hearing what about the Confederacy was worth celebrating or remembering, BiT.

I would caveat it by asking for anything UNIQUE that the Confederacy offered.

So bravery in arms would not be one of those things- many nations and cultures have raised brave men.

What unique thing of value did the Confederate culture offer the world?

flockofseagulls104 wrote:

Bob Juch wrote:It's too bad that Walmart, Sears, eBay, Amazon, etc. are stopping selling Confederate flag merchandise. It will be harder to tell who the racist assholes are.

Look in the mirror, pal.

Non-racism according to Flock: "I don't hate black people, gays, Hispanics, and other minorities. I just hate the fact they vote Democratic."

Jeemie wrote:I would be interested in hearing what about the Confederacy was worth celebrating or remembering, BiT.

I would caveat it by asking for anything UNIQUE that the Confederacy offered.

So bravery in arms would not be one of those things- many nations and cultures have raised brave men.

What unique thing of value did the Confederate culture offer the world?

Cotton and tobacco, hand picked by slaves.

Bob Juch wrote:

Jeemie wrote:I would be interested in hearing what about the Confederacy was worth celebrating or remembering, BiT.

I would caveat it by asking for anything UNIQUE that the Confederacy offered.

So bravery in arms would not be one of those things- many nations and cultures have raised brave men.

What unique thing of value did the Confederate culture offer the world?

Cotton and tobacco, hand picked by slaves.

Can you never resist being snarky, Bob?

Do you realize how much discussion gets cut off in threads because you participate in them?

You're a fucking ass...you know that?

Jeemie wrote:I would be interested in hearing what about the Confederacy was worth celebrating or remembering, BiT.

I would caveat it by asking for anything UNIQUE that the Confederacy offered.

So bravery in arms would not be one of those things- many nations and cultures have raised brave men.

What unique thing of value did the Confederate culture offer the world?

I have not stated my opinion regarding the Confederacy, the flag, or anything.

However, as an add on to your questions, why where 2,128,000 men sent to battle, with 110,000 killed to keep the Confederacy from leaving the U.S.? Apparently Lincoln (who I will assume is more in the know than anyone here with regards to the value of the Confederate States) thought was some value there.

BackInTex wrote:

Jeemie wrote:I would be interested in hearing what about the Confederacy was worth celebrating or remembering, BiT.

I would caveat it by asking for anything UNIQUE that the Confederacy offered.

So bravery in arms would not be one of those things- many nations and cultures have raised brave men.

What unique thing of value did the Confederate culture offer the world?

I have not stated my opinion regarding the Confederacy, the flag, or anything.

However, as an add on to your questions, why where 2,128,000 men sent to battle, with 110,000 killed to keep the Confederacy from leaving the U.S.? Apparently Lincoln (who I will assume is more in the know than anyone here with regards to the value of the Confederate States) thought was some value there.

There are times I wish he hadn't. If it had been put to a vote it's quite possible that it would have gone to allow succession. I think it was more over the principle that the Confederate states had no right to leave the Union than if they had any value.

Jeemie wrote:

Bob Juch wrote:

Jeemie wrote:I would be interested in hearing what about the Confederacy was worth celebrating or remembering, BiT.

I would caveat it by asking for anything UNIQUE that the Confederacy offered.

So bravery in arms would not be one of those things- many nations and cultures have raised brave men.

What unique thing of value did the Confederate culture offer the world?

Cotton and tobacco, hand picked by slaves.

Can you never resist being snarky, Bob?

Do you realize how much discussion gets cut off in threads because you participate in them?

You're a fucking ass...you know that?

You really expected a rational discussion here?

Bob Juch wrote:There are times I wish he hadn't. If it had been put to a vote it's quite possible that it would have gone to allow succession. I think it was more over the principle that the Confederate states had no right to leave the Union than if they had any value.

So your position on Lincoln is that he sent 600,000 men to their graves on principle. Wow.

silverscreenselect wrote:Plus, if you think about it, if the Confederacy had succeeded, which they might have with another Franklin Pierce or James Buchanan as President, the US would not be the preeminent world power it is today. Instead, we would probably be another Yugoslavia with about a half dozen or more "countries" occupying our portion of North America.

Totally away from topic, but there was an interesting independent comic book (using two publishers in its six-year span) in the 1980s called "Captain Confederacy," which was based upon that premise -- if the CSA had won the war, what would things be like in modern times? And much of what SSS says played out -- North America was split (including at least one major Native American country), and WWI didn't play out as well as it did in our reality (not sure if WWII happened at all since Germany kind of won the first one).

http://captainconfederacy.blogspot.com/ ... erica.html
http://quantumbranching.deviantart.com/ ... -358235967

Jeemie, thank you.

And to others, obviously there were principles involved.

Bob Juch wrote:You really expected a rational discussion here?

Not with you participating in the thread I didn't.

I keep hoping there's a normal human being somewhere inside of you.

You keep disappointing me...

BackInTex wrote:However, as an add on to your questions, why where 2,128,000 men sent to battle, with 110,000 killed to keep the Confederacy from leaving the U.S.? Apparently Lincoln (who I will assume is more in the know than anyone here with regards to the value of the Confederate States) thought was some value there.

The value was America not being balkanized into its different sections.

I asked you a question about Confederate culture...do you think the Confederate South added anything of unique value to our culture that it ought to be remembered and celebrated today?