WWTBAM Bored

silverscreenselect wrote:I learned something last night from watching the History Channel's ongoing miniseries, which is essentially the story of the war for Texas independence after the fall of the Alamo. It's well made, with a lot of familiar faces in the cast (Bill Paxton plays Sam Houston). And I have to say I wasn't that familiar with this aspect of US/Texas history.

One interesting thing I learned. Santa Anna viewed the Texans as traitors who were not entitled to protection as Prisoners of War under the existing rules of warfare. That led to a number of mass executions (not counting the few who may have been caught at the Alamo) of surrendering prisoners.

So, now we know from whom George W. Bush, Dick Cheney, and Donald Rumsfeld learned their version of the rules of war.

flockofseagulls104 wrote:

silverscreenselect wrote:I learned something last night from watching the History Channel's ongoing miniseries, which is essentially the story of the war for Texas independence after the fall of the Alamo. It's well made, with a lot of familiar faces in the cast (Bill Paxton plays Sam Houston). And I have to say I wasn't that familiar with this aspect of US/Texas history.

One interesting thing I learned. Santa Anna viewed the Texans as traitors who were not entitled to protection as Prisoners of War under the existing rules of warfare. That led to a number of mass executions (not counting the few who may have been caught at the Alamo) of surrendering prisoners.

So, now we know from whom George W. Bush, Dick Cheney, and Donald Rumsfeld learned their version of the rules of war.

You final comment is just bigotry on parade. WTF are you talking about? It is sickening to me that there are so many people like you who can roll out the hatred so easily without even realizing they are doing it.

flockofseagulls104 wrote: You final comment is just bigotry on parade. WTF are you talking about? It is sickening to me that there are so many people like you who can roll out the hatred so easily without even realizing they are doing it.

BackInTex wrote:

flockofseagulls104 wrote: You final comment is just bigotry on parade. WTF are you talking about? It is sickening to me that there are so many people like you who can roll out the hatred so easily without even realizing they are doing it.

He thinks Hillary is the Best & Brightest, so, there you go.

BackInTex wrote:

flockofseagulls104 wrote: You final comment is just bigotry on parade. WTF are you talking about? It is sickening to me that there are so many people like you who can roll out the hatred so easily without even realizing they are doing it.

He thinks Hillary is the Best & Brightest, so, there you go.

silverscreenselect wrote:

flockofseagulls104 wrote:

silverscreenselect wrote:I learned something last night from watching the History Channel's ongoing miniseries, which is essentially the story of the war for Texas independence after the fall of the Alamo. It's well made, with a lot of familiar faces in the cast (Bill Paxton plays Sam Houston). And I have to say I wasn't that familiar with this aspect of US/Texas history.

One interesting thing I learned. Santa Anna viewed the Texans as traitors who were not entitled to protection as Prisoners of War under the existing rules of warfare. That led to a number of mass executions (not counting the few who may have been caught at the Alamo) of surrendering prisoners.

So, now we know from whom George W. Bush, Dick Cheney, and Donald Rumsfeld learned their version of the rules of war.

You final comment is just bigotry on parade. WTF are you talking about? It is sickening to me that there are so many people like you who can roll out the hatred so easily without even realizing they are doing it.

And it's sickening to me that there are so many people like you who can jump to the defense of any right winger without reading or trying to analyze the criticism being leveled.

Santa Anna believed the Texans were traitors and not entitled to the existing protections as Prisoners of War, Bush et al viewed the people we scooped up in Afghanistan were "enemy combatants" and not entitled to the Geneva Convention protection as Prisoners of War. Admittedly, imprisonment for over a decade at Gitmo without a trial is a better fate than being shot en masse as the Texans were but the reasoning behind the decisions was the same.

SportsFan68 wrote:It's also a better fate than being hauled over 2,200 miles, raped, tortured, and murdered, also known as the Trail of Tears. We finally apologized for that one, sort of. The article below is from a site called Teaching Tolerance. All I'm saying, there's plenty of hatred to go around. Plenty of tolerance too. The Navajos and Utes I'm acquainted with don't seem to hold the horrors in my European-based history against me.

This is difficult and complicated. For example, Flock never makes it any easier, immediately invoking bigotry and hatred whenever his conservative pals take a hit. Still, I remain hopeful. I voted for Senator Kerry when I got the chance, and I will vote for Secretary Clinton when the time comes.

An American Apology, Long Overdue
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Submitted by Sean McCollum on January 6, 2010

Blogs and Articles: Race and Ethnicity

You’re forgiven if you missed it.

Late last month, Congress passed and President Obama signed a bill that included text that “apologizes … to all Native Peoples for the many instances of violence, maltreatment, and neglect inflicted on Native Peoples by citizens of the United States.” Not only was news of the measure knocked from front pages by the health care debate and Tiger Woods, it was well-camouflaged within the 2010 defense appropriations bill.

Still, it is the first official apology offered by the United States for the long-running persecution of the first Americans. It follows in the tradition of federal apologies to Japanese-Americans for their internment during World War II, and to Native Hawaiians for U.S. involvement in the 1893 overthrow of their monarchy.

Included in the non-binding, bipartisan resolution was an expression of regret for a policy that even fewer non-Native Americans are aware of: “the forcible removal of Native children from their families to faraway boarding schools where their Native practices and languages were degraded and forbidden.”

Beginning in the 1870s, the federally funded system of government and religious schools eventually grew to some 500 institutions. Their official policy was to promote assimilation and effectively extinguish the cultures of Native Americans. Many of these schools relied on a severe and often brutal program of military-style discipline and Christian indoctrination. U.S. officials forced more than 100,000 kids from their families, and many of them suffered years of emotional, physical, and sexual abuse. If and when they returned home, they did so as strangers bearing Americanized names. Forced enrollment ended in the 1930s, and federal investigations and damning reports about the treatment of students brought greater scrutiny in the 1970s. Most of the schools were closed by the 1990s.

This official apology does not restore stolen lands or lives. Nor does it relieve the nightmares of mistreated boarding school alums. But it finally owns up to this country’s record of ill-conceived, bigoted, and often sadistic treatment of Native Americans. And perhaps, like any honorable apology should, it sets the stage for making amends.

silverscreenselect wrote:

flockofseagulls104 wrote:

silverscreenselect wrote:I learned something last night from watching the History Channel's ongoing miniseries, which is essentially the story of the war for Texas independence after the fall of the Alamo. It's well made, with a lot of familiar faces in the cast (Bill Paxton plays Sam Houston). And I have to say I wasn't that familiar with this aspect of US/Texas history.

One interesting thing I learned. Santa Anna viewed the Texans as traitors who were not entitled to protection as Prisoners of War under the existing rules of warfare. That led to a number of mass executions (not counting the few who may have been caught at the Alamo) of surrendering prisoners.

So, now we know from whom George W. Bush, Dick Cheney, and Donald Rumsfeld learned their version of the rules of war.

You final comment is just bigotry on parade. WTF are you talking about? It is sickening to me that there are so many people like you who can roll out the hatred so easily without even realizing they are doing it.

And it's sickening to me that there are so many people like you who can jump to the defense of any right winger without reading or trying to analyze the criticism being leveled.

Santa Anna believed the Texans were traitors and not entitled to the existing protections as Prisoners of War, Bush et al viewed the people we scooped up in Afghanistan were "enemy combatants" and not entitled to the Geneva Convention protection as Prisoners of War. Admittedly, imprisonment for over a decade at Gitmo without a trial is a better fate than being shot en masse as the Texans were but the reasoning behind the decisions was the same.

SportsFan68 wrote: And it's sickening to me that there are so many people like you who can jump to the defense of any right winger without reading or trying to analyze the criticism being leveled.

Santa Anna believed the Texans were traitors and not entitled to the existing protections as Prisoners of War, Bush et al viewed the people we scooped up in Afghanistan were "enemy combatants" and not entitled to the Geneva Convention protection as Prisoners of War. Admittedly, imprisonment for over a decade at Gitmo without a trial is a better fate than being shot en masse as the Texans were but the reasoning behind the decisions was the same.

It's also a better fate than being hauled over 2,200 miles, raped, tortured, and murdered, also known as the Trail of Tears. We finally apologized for that one, sort of. The article below is from a site called Teaching Tolerance. All I'm saying, there's plenty of hatred to go around. Plenty of tolerance too. The Navajos and Utes I'm acquainted with don't seem to hold the horrors in my European-based history against me.

This is difficult and complicated. For example, Flock never makes it any easier, immediately invoking bigotry and hatred whenever his conservative pals take a hit. Still, I remain hopeful. I voted for Senator Kerry when I got the chance, and I will vote for Secretary Clinton when the time comes.

An American Apology, Long Overdue
share
Submitted by Sean McCollum on January 6, 2010

Blogs and Articles: Race and Ethnicity

You’re forgiven if you missed it.

Late last month, Congress passed and President Obama signed a bill that included text that “apologizes … to all Native Peoples for the many instances of violence, maltreatment, and neglect inflicted on Native Peoples by citizens of the United States.” Not only was news of the measure knocked from front pages by the health care debate and Tiger Woods, it was well-camouflaged within the 2010 defense appropriations bill.

Still, it is the first official apology offered by the United States for the long-running persecution of the first Americans. It follows in the tradition of federal apologies to Japanese-Americans for their internment during World War II, and to Native Hawaiians for U.S. involvement in the 1893 overthrow of their monarchy.

Included in the non-binding, bipartisan resolution was an expression of regret for a policy that even fewer non-Native Americans are aware of: “the forcible removal of Native children from their families to faraway boarding schools where their Native practices and languages were degraded and forbidden.”

Beginning in the 1870s, the federally funded system of government and religious schools eventually grew to some 500 institutions. Their official policy was to promote assimilation and effectively extinguish the cultures of Native Americans. Many of these schools relied on a severe and often brutal program of military-style discipline and Christian indoctrination. U.S. officials forced more than 100,000 kids from their families, and many of them suffered years of emotional, physical, and sexual abuse. If and when they returned home, they did so as strangers bearing Americanized names. Forced enrollment ended in the 1930s, and federal investigations and damning reports about the treatment of students brought greater scrutiny in the 1970s. Most of the schools were closed by the 1990s.

This official apology does not restore stolen lands or lives. Nor does it relieve the nightmares of mistreated boarding school alums. But it finally owns up to this country’s record of ill-conceived, bigoted, and often sadistic treatment of Native Americans. And perhaps, like any honorable apology should, it sets the stage for making amends.

Bob Juch wrote:Many survivors at the Alamo weren't shot. They were bayoneted. Some were flayed.

silverscreenselect wrote:

Bob Juch wrote:Many survivors at the Alamo weren't shot. They were bayoneted. Some were flayed.

The movie showed about a half dozen Alamo survivors being lined up and shot by a firing squad. In the next episode, they showed the Goliad massacre, when what looked like about 30 men were marched in the desert, herded together and shot after surrendering.

Bob Juch wrote:
That's what I meant about historical inaccuracies.

They probably didn't show those executed at the Alamo being burned. The women and a slave who were set free probably weren't shown either.

There were about 350 shot at Goliad about a week after the battle. There were prisoners from other battles included too.

Bob Juch wrote:I'm not going to watch. My blood pressure would probably raise too high over the inaccuracies.

Jeemie wrote:

Bob Juch wrote:I'm not going to watch. My blood pressure would probably raise too high over the inaccuracies.

And you would know- after all, you were there.

silverscreenselect wrote: They did show women being set free. Santa Anna's reasoning was that if the Texans knew what happened they would be cowed into giving up the fight. One of the women was black; her brother was one of the men executed by the firing squad. She is supposed to be Creole and she figures prominently in the plot later when she winds up becoming Santa Anna's mistress (she wants to kill him).

BackInTex wrote:

SportsFan68 wrote:
An American Apology, Long Overdue
share
Submitted by Sean McCollum on January 6, 2010

Blogs and Articles: Race and Ethnicity

You’re forgiven if you missed it.

Late last month, Congress passed and President Obama signed a bill that included text that “apologizes … to all Native Peoples for the many instances of violence, maltreatment, and neglect inflicted on Native Peoples by citizens of the United States.” Not only was news of the measure knocked from front pages by the health care debate and Tiger Woods, it was well-camouflaged within the 2010 defense appropriations bill.

Still, it is the first official apology offered by the United States for the long-running persecution of the first Americans. It follows in the tradition of federal apologies to Japanese-Americans for their internment during World War II, and to Native Hawaiians for U.S. involvement in the 1893 overthrow of their monarchy.

Included in the non-binding, bipartisan resolution was an expression of regret for a policy that even fewer non-Native Americans are aware of: “the forcible removal of Native children from their families to faraway boarding schools where their Native practices and languages were degraded and forbidden.”

Beginning in the 1870s, the federally funded system of government and religious schools eventually grew to some 500 institutions. Their official policy was to promote assimilation and effectively extinguish the cultures of Native Americans. Many of these schools relied on a severe and often brutal program of military-style discipline and Christian indoctrination. U.S. officials forced more than 100,000 kids from their families, and many of them suffered years of emotional, physical, and sexual abuse. If and when they returned home, they did so as strangers bearing Americanized names. Forced enrollment ended in the 1930s, and federal investigations and damning reports about the treatment of students brought greater scrutiny in the 1970s. Most of the schools were closed by the 1990s.

This official apology does not restore stolen lands or lives. Nor does it relieve the nightmares of mistreated boarding school alums. But it finally owns up to this country’s record of ill-conceived, bigoted, and often sadistic treatment of Native Americans. And perhaps, like any honorable apology should, it sets the stage for making amends.

Did I miss all the apologies issued by the native tribes to the hundreds of tribes they massacred prior to when the "white settlers" arrived? You do realize that the entire history of the world has and will always be a continual game of King of the Hill, and that current Kings at some point became Kings using less than polite "excuse me"s while climbing to the top and "pushing" the existing kings off? There were few pacifists here when the "whites" arrived.

BackInTex wrote:

silverscreenselect wrote: They did show women being set free. Santa Anna's reasoning was that if the Texans knew what happened they would be cowed into giving up the fight. One of the women was black; her brother was one of the men executed by the firing squad. She is supposed to be Creole and she figures prominently in the plot later when she winds up becoming Santa Anna's mistress (she wants to kill him).

Emily Morgan... The Yellow Rose of Texas.

BackInTex wrote:

silverscreenselect wrote: They did show women being set free. Santa Anna's reasoning was that if the Texans knew what happened they would be cowed into giving up the fight. One of the women was black; her brother was one of the men executed by the firing squad. She is supposed to be Creole and she figures prominently in the plot later when she winds up becoming Santa Anna's mistress (she wants to kill him).

Emily Morgan... The Yellow Rose of Texas.

When should I expect my apology for all of the hateful, sadistic, bigotrous, speciesist acts you've committed against me and my fellow squirrels? Scurrying the Trail of Mange out of Colorado was no picnic, Sprotsie Baby

silverscreenselect wrote:

flockofseagulls104 wrote:

silverscreenselect wrote:I learned something last night from watching the History Channel's ongoing miniseries, which is essentially the story of the war for Texas independence after the fall of the Alamo. It's well made, with a lot of familiar faces in the cast (Bill Paxton plays Sam Houston). And I have to say I wasn't that familiar with this aspect of US/Texas history.

One interesting thing I learned. Santa Anna viewed the Texans as traitors who were not entitled to protection as Prisoners of War under the existing rules of warfare. That led to a number of mass executions (not counting the few who may have been caught at the Alamo) of surrendering prisoners.

So, now we know from whom George W. Bush, Dick Cheney, and Donald Rumsfeld learned their version of the rules of war.

You final comment is just bigotry on parade. WTF are you talking about? It is sickening to me that there are so many people like you who can roll out the hatred so easily without even realizing they are doing it.

And it's sickening to me that there are so many people like you who can jump to the defense of any right winger without reading or trying to analyze the criticism being leveled.

Santa Anna believed the Texans were traitors and not entitled to the existing protections as Prisoners of War, Bush et al viewed the people we scooped up in Afghanistan were "enemy combatants" and not entitled to the Geneva Convention protection as Prisoners of War. Admittedly, imprisonment for over a decade at Gitmo without a trial is a better fate than being shot en masse as the Texans were but the reasoning behind the decisions was the same.