WWTBAM Bored

So I just got back from my first overseas travel in five years last night.

When I last traveled five years ago, here's how customs worked.

You came off your gate, came up an escalator and walked into a large customs hall, waiting in line until you came to a customs agent. You showed him your passport and blue and white customs form he asked you a few questions, then stamped your passport so you could get to baggage claim. After claiming your baggage, you had to pass yet another official to whom you handed your customs form, and then you were finally allowed into the main terminal.

So when I come back now, I see there's these fancy machines that you go through first. At these fancy machines, you scan in your passport, and then the machine proceeds to make you answer the same questions that were on the blue and white customs form. This would be nice...except you still have to fill in the blue and white customs form- they hand you one while you are still on the plane.

Anyhow, after this, the machine takes your picture and spits out a printed receipt. You take this and the blue and white customs form...and then you still have to pass through the two human checkpoints you had to pass through five years ago- only now you hand your blue and white customs form to the guy who stamps your passport (who asks you many of the same questions that are on the blue and white form- so this is now THREE TIMES you have had to provide the same information), and the computer receipt to the guy after baggage claim.

Now, I am guessing the overall point of this is to have yet more electronic information on you, but what I cannot figure out is how in the world anyone thought this was the most efficient way to get that information.

So what the hell is the point of setting up the workflow in this manner? You still have to do everything you did before plus stop in front of these machines (which, from the looks of the many "This machine is out of order" signs I saw, break down quite a bit), so the process of getting back into the country is now even longer.

And they don't even give you the tradeoff of eliminating the customs form or any of the original checkpoints.

And you wonder why people distrust the government with things like people's health care. This is a relatively simple workflow, and they have managed to fuck the hell out of that.

Why in the world would you trust them with anything more complex?

Forgot to add- I contrast this with the UK version of getting in and out of their country- they keep it simple.

One form, filled out one time, and you pass through one checkpoint. If you travel often, this can be done electronically...but it's still one checkpoint.

Leaving the country, the terminals have electronic signs that tell you which security checkpoints are the least busy, thus balancing out flow through the various checkpoints.

Once at the security checkpoint, all you have to do is scan your boarding pass, and a gate leading to the metal detectors and X-Ray machines opens- no one asks to see you boarding pass or passport again after that. I was in an out of security screening in about three minutes.

Contrast this again at Philadelphia where I had to show my pass and passport to a person at the entrance to security, a person at the entrance to the tray line, and the person who allowed me to pass to the full body scanner (which not everyone at Heathrow has to go through, BTW, while everyone does in the US).

Afterwards at Heathrow, they have little kiosks where you can electronically record your satisfaction with security procedures by pushing a relevant "emoticon button"...you can also add a handwritten card with further suggestions. Instantaneous customer feedback mad easy- what a concept!

Again- simple workflows- how anyone can fuck these up is beyond me.

But our government agencies do this with regularity.

I'll be taking my first overseas trip since 2011 later this year, so I'll get to experience this too.

This is how it should work:
Automated Passport Control (APC)

So the paper form is not required, and the agent just shreds it. I'll probably fill out the list of items, so I don't hold up the line trying to remember them at the kiosk. They can't go entirely automated because some travelers lie, and the machine can't detect that.

jarnon wrote:I'll be taking my first overseas trip since 2011 later this year, so I'll get to experience this too.

This is how it should work:
Automated Passport Control (APC)

So the paper form is not required, and the agent just shreds it. I'll probably fill out the list of items, so I don't hold up the line trying to remember them at the kiosk. They can't go entirely automated because some travelers lie, and the machine can't detect that.

Except I was told I still had to fill out the blue and white form- I was asked for it by the agent.

I gave him the form, and the other agent the receipt.

And the computer can't detect when people lie, but human agents can?

Um- OK.

My big point is- all this can be handled at one checkpoint, with one system...either electronic or paper.

Jeemie wrote:And the computer can't detect when people lie, but human agents can?.

The agents do recognize people who appear dishonest, and have their bags searched. And just that possibility keeps most of us honest. If it was all automated, there'd be no deterrent.

jarnon wrote:

Jeemie wrote:And the computer can't detect when people lie, but human agents can?.

The agents do recognize people who appear dishonest, and have their bags searched. And just that possibility keeps most of us honest. If it was all automated, there'd be no deterrent.

Well, as I said, even granting that, there is no reason to implement this in such a way that the entire process is now less efficient. I can think of a dozen ways to do this better...starting with having it all happen at one checkpoint.

They switched JFK to something similar, I thought it was madness when I saw it too in the summer, although they did not make me fill out a form on the airplane. Newark they have it the old, more efficient way.

I forgot to mention the automated machines themselves appear needlessly complex.

To take your picture, the machine actually has to rise up in order to get the camera into the correct position to take your picture.

Yet another part of the process where a breakdown can occur (and I wonder if that's why these machines appear to be out of order a lot).

And totally ridiculous- just position the camera in the correct spot to begin with so it can get a picture of people within the normal height ranges.

Jeemie wrote:I forgot to mention the automated machines themselves appear needlessly complex.

To take your picture, the machine actually has to rise up in order to get the camera into the correct position to take your picture.

Yet another part of the process where a breakdown can occur (and I wonder if that's why these machines appear to be out of order a lot).

And totally ridiculous- just position the camera in the correct spot to begin with so it can get a picture of people within the normal height ranges.

Did you notice who makes them? Was there a brand name? Have you written to your representatives in Washington to express your concerns? Your
observations appear to have merit, but I don't think anyone here can fix the problem.

TheConfessor wrote:

Jeemie wrote:I forgot to mention the automated machines themselves appear needlessly complex.

To take your picture, the machine actually has to rise up in order to get the camera into the correct position to take your picture.

Yet another part of the process where a breakdown can occur (and I wonder if that's why these machines appear to be out of order a lot).

And totally ridiculous- just position the camera in the correct spot to begin with so it can get a picture of people within the normal height ranges.

Did you notice who makes them? Was there a brand name? Have you written to your representatives in Washington to express your concerns? Your
observations appear to have merit, but I don't think anyone here can fix the problem.

If we posted about stuff that only people on these boards could do anything about, there'd be Frank's games and precious little else.

I just saw all this yesterday...and I did share it with a couple of the agents there...who really can't do much about it either.

But give me some time- sheesh!

Jeemie wrote: If we posted about stuff that only people on these boards could do anything about, there'd be Frank's games and precious little else.

True, but I generally think of you as one of our more rational posters here. I gave up hope for the others long ago!

Jeemie wrote:So I just got back from my first overseas travel in five years last night.

When I last traveled five years ago, here's how customs worked.

You came off your gate, came up an escalator and walked into a large customs hall, waiting in line until you came to a customs agent. You showed him your passport and blue and white customs form he asked you a few questions, then stamped your passport so you could get to baggage claim. After claiming your baggage, you had to pass yet another official to whom you handed your customs form, and then you were finally allowed into the main terminal.

So when I come back now, I see there's these fancy machines that you go through first. At these fancy machines, you scan in your passport, and then the machine proceeds to make you answer the same questions that were on the blue and white customs form. This would be nice...except you still have to fill in the blue and white customs form- they hand you one while you are still on the plane.

Anyhow, after this, the machine takes your picture and spits out a printed receipt. You take this and the blue and white customs form...and then you still have to pass through the two human checkpoints you had to pass through five years ago- only now you hand your blue and white customs form to the guy who stamps your passport (who asks you many of the same questions that are on the blue and white form- so this is now THREE TIMES you have had to provide the same information), and the computer receipt to the guy after baggage claim.

Now, I am guessing the overall point of this is to have yet more electronic information on you, but what I cannot figure out is how in the world anyone thought this was the most efficient way to get that information.

So what the hell is the point of setting up the workflow in this manner? You still have to do everything you did before plus stop in front of these machines (which, from the looks of the many "This machine is out of order" signs I saw, break down quite a bit), so the process of getting back into the country is now even longer.

And they don't even give you the tradeoff of eliminating the customs form or any of the original checkpoints.

And you wonder why people distrust the government with things like people's health care. This is a relatively simple workflow, and they have managed to fuck the hell out of that.

Why in the world would you trust them with anything more complex?

As a knee-jerk libertarian, even I find it funny that you denigrate the American system as being overloaded with governmental interference, then hold up a much more socialized democracy like England as a superior example. Apparently it's not the government/bureaucracy issue that is the problem, since England's is much more pervasive.

Maybe it's just that England's bureaucracy is so much more experienced that they can be more efficient at stripping you of your privacy, your dignity, and your money.

mrkelley23 wrote:

Jeemie wrote:So I just got back from my first overseas travel in five years last night.

When I last traveled five years ago, here's how customs worked.

You came off your gate, came up an escalator and walked into a large customs hall, waiting in line until you came to a customs agent. You showed him your passport and blue and white customs form he asked you a few questions, then stamped your passport so you could get to baggage claim. After claiming your baggage, you had to pass yet another official to whom you handed your customs form, and then you were finally allowed into the main terminal.

So when I come back now, I see there's these fancy machines that you go through first. At these fancy machines, you scan in your passport, and then the machine proceeds to make you answer the same questions that were on the blue and white customs form. This would be nice...except you still have to fill in the blue and white customs form- they hand you one while you are still on the plane.

Anyhow, after this, the machine takes your picture and spits out a printed receipt. You take this and the blue and white customs form...and then you still have to pass through the two human checkpoints you had to pass through five years ago- only now you hand your blue and white customs form to the guy who stamps your passport (who asks you many of the same questions that are on the blue and white form- so this is now THREE TIMES you have had to provide the same information), and the computer receipt to the guy after baggage claim.

Now, I am guessing the overall point of this is to have yet more electronic information on you, but what I cannot figure out is how in the world anyone thought this was the most efficient way to get that information.

So what the hell is the point of setting up the workflow in this manner? You still have to do everything you did before plus stop in front of these machines (which, from the looks of the many "This machine is out of order" signs I saw, break down quite a bit), so the process of getting back into the country is now even longer.

And they don't even give you the tradeoff of eliminating the customs form or any of the original checkpoints.

And you wonder why people distrust the government with things like people's health care. This is a relatively simple workflow, and they have managed to fuck the hell out of that.

Why in the world would you trust them with anything more complex?

As a knee-jerk libertarian, even I find it funny that you denigrate the American system as being overloaded with governmental interference, then hold up a much more socialized democracy like England as a superior example. Apparently it's not the government/bureaucracy issue that is the problem, since England's is much more pervasive.

Maybe it's just that England's bureaucracy is so much more experienced that they can be more efficient at stripping you of your privacy, your dignity, and your money.

Yeah- maybe that's it- England's had more practice at it.

But that's my point- our government bureaucrats are such boobs they can't even get a simple workflow right- surely I don't want them in charge of something overly-complex.

As for the privacy thing, I figure there's little hope of that stopping, so they might as well try and make it more efficient so as not to waste my time.

TheConfessor wrote:

Jeemie wrote: If we posted about stuff that only people on these boards could do anything about, there'd be Frank's games and precious little else.

True, but I generally think of you as one of our more rational posters here. I gave up hope for the others long ago!

I'm quite rational.

I suppose I'm more fascinated that someone could actually think a workflow layout this dumb was a good idea.

Jeemie wrote:And you wonder why people distrust the government with things like people's health care. This is a relatively simple workflow, and they have managed to fuck the hell out of that.

Why in the world would you trust them with anything more complex?

All Medicare is about is the government writing checks. It's gotten pretty good at that in the last 50 years or so -- much more efficient than private insurers, and without the perverse incentives created by the insurers' profit motive. Would have been a good model for the rest of the health care system. --Bob

Jeemie wrote:

TheConfessor wrote:

Jeemie wrote: If we posted about stuff that only people on these boards could do anything about, there'd be Frank's games and precious little else.

True, but I generally think of you as one of our more rational posters here. I gave up hope for the others long ago!

I'm quite rational.

I suppose I'm more fascinated that someone could actually think a workflow layout this dumb was a good idea.

I'm sure they contracted-out the stupidity to private enterprise.

Bob Juch wrote:I'm sure they contracted-out the stupidity to private enterprise.

I'm sure they contracted out for the machines...I doubt they sought outside help to advise them on how to flow people through the system.

Although I have seen some brain-dead private enterprise workflows as well.

But this had government bureaucracy written all over it.

Apparently the kiosks are working over all- wait times in customs queues are down from an average of 36 minutes to 17 minutes since they have been installed, according to a story I just read.

Maybe the other airports do it better than Philadelphia- I waited longer than I usually do. By the time I was done and got to baggage claim, all the luggage was off our flight and stacked neatly on the floor by the baggage carrel (that was nice, at least). That would never happen in the past....I would almost always get there almost before the luggage started coming out onto the belts.