WWTBAM Bored

Last night I participated in a trivia contest at a local elementary school. The contest was designed with a two-fold purpose - as a fund-raiser and as an opportunity for the children to review what they had learned in advance of the state-mandated standardized tests that come up later this month. As I mentioned yesterday the organizer, one of my PAFs, wanted me to be there and said she would introduce me as a "special celebrity guest." She did and I received "oohs" and applause.

Then it was on to the contest. Since this was the first one this school had done the attendance wasn't great - only eight tables of eight-person teams. Prior to the beginning of the contest my PAF called me aside and said that most of the questions were drawn from the school's teachers and were part of the curriculum and the material the students were studying for the tests. She asked that I not give my team (which had three students on it) the answers right away - I was to let them try and remember the answers since the questions came from their study materials. There were some questions, however, that were not part of the material and I was free to answer those.

In the end our team won by a large margin - not because I gave the answers but because the kids on our team were really sharp. We did miss some questions (such as, "Other than Lincoln and Washington, what two presidents have birthdays in February?", and, on a sheet with photographs we didn't identify Steve Irwin's daughter). There were others that we missed because the kids were sure of the answer but it wasn't correct, most notably, "Name one of the three smartest breeds of dog." And we had one really glaring gaffe. The question was "What disability did Juliette Gordon-Low, founder of the Girl Scouts USA, suffer from?" The kids said "deafness" but our scribe wrote down "dyslexia".

In the end I felt as if I had been a "ringer" in a rigged contest.

Oh, and the answer to the presidential birthday question:

Spoiler

William Henry Harrison and Ronald Reagan

Next week, my sons' school is doing their annual Spring event. In odd-numbered years they have an auction. In even-numbered years, they do something else (which changes over time). This year, the event is entitled "Back to School" and is being held at the UN. One can optionally sign up for a tour just prior to the event (which Mrs. slam and I will be taking). Part of the event is a game of "Are You Smarter Than A (name of the school) Student".

The format is that each team (from 1 to 6 parents) goes to 4 classrooms in the following subjects: Language Arts, Math, Science/Geography, Jewish Studies (the school is a Reform Jewish Day School). In each classroom, your team tries to answer 10 questions. But, you get the option of the level: Elementary (100 points/question), Upper Elementary (300 points/question), or Middle School (500 points/question). (The school goes up to 8th grade, so Middle School = 5th to 8th). You can switch between levels while in a room. After all the teams have done this, the top 4 scoring teams will be involved in some game in a "Quiz Bowl" format. If your team has more than 4 players, only 4 can play in the "Quiz Bowl" round(s). I'm not sure if they'll all face each other or if there will be two semifinals and a final (I'd guess the latter).

My wife (who is not into this at all) and I were asked by another couple to be on a team with them. If winning the competition were the primary goal, then it would make sense to add another couple and pare down to the best 4 if appopriate. We may or may not do that on the night of the event.

I'm trying to determine optimal strategy in question level selection. This is a little difficult to do in that I have no idea how easy or difficult the questions will be. I also have only some guesses as to what "Language Arts" is about. Anybody have any thoughts on strategy?

slam wrote: I'm trying to determine optimal strategy in question level selection. This is a little difficult to do in that I have no idea how easy or difficult the questions will be. I also have only some guesses as to what "Language Arts" is about. Anybody have any thoughts on strategy?

1. Find another couple who is into it. Any chance the Suchards might be in town?

2. Go for all the 500 point questions. No guts, no glory!

Does the team get to answer collectively?

BTW, ear...

earendel wrote:In the end I felt as if I had been a "ringer" in a rigged contest.

You're not going to get on the TV show with an audition tape like that!

earendel wrote:There were others that we missed because the kids were sure of the answer but it wasn't correct, most notably, "Name one of the three smartest breeds of dog."

If you ever get a question about the smartest dog breeds, go with "border collie," which I think is far and away the smartest. I think the other two may be the German shepherd and the poodle, but I could be wrong there.

MarleysGh0st wrote:

slam wrote: I'm trying to determine optimal strategy in question level selection. This is a little difficult to do in that I have no idea how easy or difficult the questions will be. I also have only some guesses as to what "Language Arts" is about. Anybody have any thoughts on strategy?

1. Find another couple who is into it. Any chance the Suchards might be in town?

2. Go for all the 500 point questions. No guts, no glory!

Does the team get to answer collectively?

Part of the problem is that many elements of the format haven't been communicated to us. I'd guess we get to answer collectively in the preliminary round, but I'm not sure. It's also unclear how difficult and how well-written the questions will be. If the questions in the top category are impossible to answer (because of being poorly written), then it could make sense to go with the 2nd category. The arithmetic of the competition probably makes going for the harder questions better. If a team gets 6 out of 10 in the top category, they can't be beaten by a team that selects all their questions from the next category. For Math (where I can't imagine my missing a question), we'll go for all 500 point questions. Makes sense to do that for the Science/Geography and probably Language Arts also. Jewish Studies is the problem category. The parent body is fairly secular and our kids are being exposed to more in this category than the vast majority of the parents know. I'm probably more knowledgable than many, but certainly not all, of the parents in this area. My teammates might be in the situation. I'm thinking of starting at the top level there with the possibility of retreat in mind.

And how useful would the Suchards be in the Jewish Studies category?

slam wrote: And how useful would the Suchards be in the Jewish Studies category?

That category might be a problem; I think Jeff is fairly secular, too.

But they'll probably say they can't make the drive from the OC, anyway.

BTW, how does a private school arrange for a fundraiser at the UN?

JBillyGirl wrote:

earendel wrote:There were others that we missed because the kids were sure of the answer but it wasn't correct, most notably, "Name one of the three smartest breeds of dog."

If you ever get a question about the smartest dog breeds, go with "border collie," which I think is far and away the smartest. I think the other two may be the German shepherd and the poodle, but I could be wrong there.

I think that is exactly right.

1. Border Collie
2. Poodle
3. German Shepherd

Most of the lists I have seen also include Golden and Labrador Retrievers, Dobermans, Australian Cattle Dogs, Rottweilers, and various sheep/cattle dogs.

In general go with herding, retrieving, and guard dogs.

Poodles are actually retrievers. The origins of the shaving patterns was for working in water retrieving ducks. The name Poodle even comes from German, Pudelhund, for "splashing dog" because of their work in the water.

Doing some checking it also appears that Papillons are high on the lists. No idea why. Very small guard dogs, I guess.

andrewjackson wrote:Poodles are actually retrievers. The origins of the shaving patterns was for working in water retrieving ducks. The name Poodle even comes from German, Pudelhund, for "splashing dog" because of their work in the water.

I would love to see some of those show dog poodles jump into a pond to retrieve a duck!

MarleysGh0st wrote:

slam wrote: And how useful would the Suchards be in the Jewish Studies category?

That category might be a problem; I think Jeff is fairly secular, too.

But they'll probably say they can't make the drive from the OC, anyway.

BTW, how does a private school arrange for a fundraiser at the UN?

I presume that somebody connected with the school either is somebody or knows somebody.

andrewjackson wrote:

JBillyGirl wrote:If you ever get a question about the smartest dog breeds, go with "border collie," which I think is far and away the smartest. I think the other two may be the German shepherd and the poodle, but I could be wrong there.

I think that is exactly right.

1. Border Collie
2. Poodle
3. German Shepherd

Most of the lists I have seen also include Golden and Labrador Retrievers, Dobermans, Australian Cattle Dogs, Rottweilers, and various sheep/cattle dogs.

In general go with herding, retrieving, and guard dogs.

Poodles are actually retrievers. The origins of the shaving patterns was for working in water retrieving ducks. The name Poodle even comes from German, Pudelhund, for "splashing dog" because of their work in the water.

Doing some checking it also appears that Papillons are high on the lists. No idea why. Very small guard dogs, I guess.

I've noticed that all those lists always put working dogs on top. That's because the lists are made up by two-footers, who like it when dogs do the work instead of them.

Some of the rest of us have studies and work of our own.

/:P\

JBillyGirl wrote:

earendel wrote:There were others that we missed because the kids were sure of the answer but it wasn't correct, most notably, "Name one of the three smartest breeds of dog."

If you ever get a question about the smartest dog breeds, go with "border collie," which I think is far and away the smartest. I think the other two may be the German shepherd and the poodle, but I could be wrong there.

"Border collie" and "poodle" were two of the three - the other was the retriever.

earendel wrote:

JBillyGirl wrote:

earendel wrote:There were others that we missed because the kids were sure of the answer but it wasn't correct, most notably, "Name one of the three smartest breeds of dog."

If you ever get a question about the smartest dog breeds, go with "border collie," which I think is far and away the smartest. I think the other two may be the German shepherd and the poodle, but I could be wrong there.

"Border collie" and "poodle" were two of the three - the other was the retriever.

New Zealand Sheep Dog isn't a recognized breed -yet - so doesn't qualify for being called the smartest dog, but they are!

MarleysGh0st wrote:

slam wrote: And how useful would the Suchards be in the Jewish Studies category?

That category might be a problem; I think Jeff is fairly secular, too.

But they'll probably say they can't make the drive from the OC, anyway.

BTW, how does a private school arrange for a fundraiser at the UN?

Actually, Maddie is very good at Jewish Studies, it's her area for quiz bowl. Throw in a Broadway show and she can be your ringer.

PlacentiaSoccerMom wrote:

MarleysGh0st wrote:

slam wrote: And how useful would the Suchards be in the Jewish Studies category?

That category might be a problem; I think Jeff is fairly secular, too.

But they'll probably say they can't make the drive from the OC, anyway.

BTW, how does a private school arrange for a fundraiser at the UN?

Actually, Maddie is very good at Jewish Studies, it's her area for quiz bowl. Throw in a Broadway show and she can be your ringer.

The problem is that Maddie is a Suchard we wouldn't be allowed to use. I have a 12-year-old son who also would be perfect for this job. The point here is to expose how much the parents don't know that the kids are expected to know.

slam wrote:

PlacentiaSoccerMom wrote:

MarleysGh0st wrote: That category might be a problem; I think Jeff is fairly secular, too.

But they'll probably say they can't make the drive from the OC, anyway.

BTW, how does a private school arrange for a fundraiser at the UN?

Actually, Maddie is very good at Jewish Studies, it's her area for quiz bowl. Throw in a Broadway show and she can be your ringer.

The problem is that Maddie is a Suchard we wouldn't be allowed to use. I have a 12-year-old son who also would be perfect for this job. The point here is to expose how much the parents don't know that the kids are expected to know.

Sorry!

JBillyGirl wrote:

earendel wrote:There were others that we missed because the kids were sure of the answer but it wasn't correct, most notably, "Name one of the three smartest breeds of dog."

If you ever get a question about the smartest dog breeds, go with "border collie," which I think is far and away the smartest. I think the other two may be the German shepherd and the poodle, but I could be wrong there.

How is this question any different from asking which race of humans is the smartest? Even if there is some statistical basis for claiming that one race or breed is smarter than some other race or breed, isn't it highly politically incorrect to draw such a conclusion? Doesn't the question of heredity vs. environment apply to dogs as well as to people?

TheConfessor wrote:
How is this question any different from asking which race of humans is the smartest? Even if there is some statistical basis for claiming that one race or breed is smarter than some other race or breed, isn't it highly politically incorrect to draw such a conclusion? Doesn't the question of heredity vs. environment apply to dogs as well as to people?

Thank you, Mr. Confessor!

/:P\

TheConfessor wrote:

JBillyGirl wrote:

earendel wrote:There were others that we missed because the kids were sure of the answer but it wasn't correct, most notably, "Name one of the three smartest breeds of dog."

If you ever get a question about the smartest dog breeds, go with "border collie," which I think is far and away the smartest. I think the other two may be the German shepherd and the poodle, but I could be wrong there.

How is this question any different from asking which race of humans is the smartest? Even if there is some statistical basis for claiming that one race or breed is smarter than some other race or breed, isn't it highly politically incorrect to draw such a conclusion? Doesn't the question of heredity vs. environment apply to dogs as well as to people?

Brain size and inbreeding has dumbed-down a lot of dog breeds.

Bob Juch wrote:Brain size and inbreeding has dumbed-down a lot of dog breeds.

Has it also smartened-up a lot of dog breeds? Or human breeds? Which ones?

If you're implying that big brain = smarter, I doubt that the border collie has the largest brain of all dogs.

TheConfessor wrote:

Bob Juch wrote:Brain size and inbreeding has dumbed-down a lot of dog breeds.

Has it also smartened-up a lot of dog breeds? Or human breeds? Which ones?

If you're implying that big brain = smarter, I doubt that the border collie has the largest brain of all dogs.

No, I am saying that small brain = dumber though. Look at all the "toy" dogs.

If you're smater than a fifth grader, then you're clearly overqualified to make displays at the Smithsonian's natural history museum.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23926074

DadofTwins wrote:If you're smater than a fifth grader, then you're clearly overqualified to make displays at the Smithsonian's natural history museum.

From the article:

"The Precambrian is a dimensionless unit of time, which embraces all the time between the origin of Earth and the beginning of the Cambrian Period of geologic time," the letter says.

"A dimensionless unit of time" doesn't make sense to me. There's certainly a dimension to this span of time--about 4 billion years--it's just that they don't have a standardized name for that unit. And that's probably because there's only one unit of time (on this planet) like that, so there's not much point in having a generic name for the unit.

Wikipedia calls it a supereon, containing the Hadean, Archaean and Proterozoic eons.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Precambrian

Bob Juch wrote:

TheConfessor wrote:

Bob Juch wrote:Brain size and inbreeding has dumbed-down a lot of dog breeds.

Has it also smartened-up a lot of dog breeds? Or human breeds? Which ones?

If you're implying that big brain = smarter, I doubt that the border collie has the largest brain of all dogs.

No, I am saying that small brain = dumber though. Look at all the "toy" dogs.

Actually, what matters more than actual brain size is the ratio of brain size to body size. Think of how incredibly clever squirrels can be; they're pretty small, but their brain-to-body-size ratio approaches that of humans.

The toy dog Papillon is supposed to be one of the top 10 smartest breeds, and the Cavalier King Charles spaniel my family has seems to be a good bit smarter than either of our Welsh springer spaniels (mid-sized dogs) ever were, God bless them. I do think, however, that breeding for "extreme" dog traits, such as the badly smushed-in faces of highly bred Pekingeses, can distort intelligence and cause problems for dogs; how smart can you be if you're always struggling to breathe?