Rant about Ford Motor Company (and the NHTSA) Warning: LONG!

[mrkelley23]

And while it's specifically about Ford in this case, it's also about the state of American business, and customer service, or lack thereof.


My in-laws own a 2011 Ford Edge. Because they are elderly and do not drive much, this vehicle that they purchased a little over 4 years ago has right at 30,000 miles on it. In the last three months, my father-in-law had several very scary experiences with it. Without warning, and under many different circumstances, it would go into so-called "limp mode," meaning the accelerator would basically disconnect itself from the drive train. The speed would drop to essentially zero, with just enough oomph to (hopefully) get to the side of the road. The first time it happened, he was able to get it to the side of the road, restart it, and get it going again. He took it to the dealer, but was told there was nothing they could do if the warning lights weren't on, because they couldn't pull the diagnostic code otherwise. So apparently he was supposed to "limp" all the way to the dealer from wherever it died. After it happened again, both times on weekends when the dealer service department was closed, I did a little research, and was dumbstruck with what I found.


This problem is caused by something called the Electronic Throttle Body (ETB). It performs the same function that was blamed in the Toyota mysterious acceleration cases from a few years back. Remember that Toyota settled a lawsuit ($1 billion plus) not too long ago related to that problem, although a link between the ETB and the unintended acceleration was not proven. This memory will be important a little later in this rant. In the case of Ford, the ETB doesn't cause unintended acceleration; instead, it causes the car to go to this "limp mode." Try to imagine driving down the interstate in traffic when this happens to you.


Even scarier is that this is a recognized problem with many Ford models. In March of 2014 a settlement was reached between the US government and Ford to avoid an official recall on the problem. Instead, drivers of the affected models (Escape, Fusion, Mercury Mariner and Mercury Milan) will get a 10 year, 150,000 mile warranty to fix electronic throttle problems. (Source: http://www.carcomplaints.com/news/2014/ ... home.shtml) It bothers me greatly that the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration sees fit to not issue a recall on a problem this dangerous, especially since by its own fact-finding (same source as above) they found nearly 60,000 throttle body complaints repaired under warranty. That means less than three-year-old cars! What's going to happen when these cars start to age? If you go to http://www.arfc.org/complaints/2011/for ... oblem.aspx and read through the complaints, you'll see that there are plenty of issues with the Ford Edge, as well. Somehow, though, it wasn't included in this settlement.


My in-laws are the unfortunate victims of not driving enough. The service manager at their dealership (more on him in a moment) told them it would have easily been fixed under warranty. But the warranty on Fords is only 3 years, 36,000 miles. And allow me to vent a little about the experience at the dealership, as well.


My in-laws bought their car from Town and Country Ford, in Evansville on the Expressway. I had no issue with this; in fact, one member of my church was a salesperson there for years and years, and I had always thought of them as a reputable operation. I no longer feel that way, unfortunately. To begin with, recall that they told my father-in-law there was no way to know what was wrong unless the warning light was on. We called them last week, after the car had done this for I believe the fifth time (might have only been the fourth) and told them we believed that it was the ETB, and informed them what we had found in our research. Scott agreed that this was probably correct (! How would he know that?) and to bring it in first thing Monday morning. We were told it would probably be an all-day, or at least most of the day operation to get it repaired. We dropped it off around 7:30 this morning. They called my wife at 9:30 to tell her it was ready, that it was indeed the ETB, and that it would be almost $500 for the non-warranty repair. Now, my father-in-law purchased the extended warranty for this car, so he was perturbed, at least, to know that it was not covered under anything, especially given what we had discovered about Ford's design flaw. So when we went to pick it up, we arrived at about 11:30 AM. We asked to see the service manager to complain about the repair not being covered under any of three possible ways: original warranty, extended warranty, or "customer satisfaction plan." We were told he was unavailable until 1:00. While we were having this discussion with the cashier, I noticed the same man walk back and forth in front of us at least five times, wearing what I call vintage retail manager clothes. You know, short sleeve dress shirt and half-Windsor (might have been a clip-on, I couldn't tell from a distance)? How many guys working in the service department wear ties? Must be a salesman, I thought to myself, since the service manager has already left for lunch.


So I called Ford Customer Service to complain. I first talked to Felicia(?, not sure, the connection was pretty bad) and explained the situation. She nodded and clucked sympathetically, and said she was creating a case file, which she would transmit to the service manager at Town and Country with "options he could pursue." I sighed and said that was why I was calling her, because the service manager wasn't here, and wasn't there anything Ford could do to help me? She said no, it was really up to the service manager, since there wasn't an official recall or anything. Well, there's not an official recall because the NHTSA didn't do its job (or was convinced somehow to not do its job, anyway) so the situation was frustrating, to say the least. But at least there was some hope that the "options" she referred to might give the service manager some latitude on how to handle this.


After dropping $20 eating at a restaurant when we didn't expect to, we returned to the service department promptly at 1:00. About five minutes after one, the service manager made his appearance. Guess what? That's right, the same guy who walked back and forth in front of us for at least ten minutes after we were told he was not going to be available until 1:00. I handed him the "case file" number and asked him to see what Ford had sent him, and he disappeared for about 5 minutes. When he came back, he said it was just an informational file and there was nothing he could do. While my father-in-law attempted to find out what the "extended warranty" actually covered, I called Ford again. This time I spoke to Patricia (I had her repeat it) who said she was not the same person I had spoken to before (she sounded very similar, but who knows?) and that any flexibility was up to the service manager. The service manager said that Ford didn't give him any flexibility, and implied that he would be in trouble if he granted any, which I know from experience to be untrue, at least for other dealerships. I asked how they were able to tell that the ETB was the problem, when they said they couldn't pull the codes,and the young man standing with him (assistant service manager, I"m guessing) said that they took it out and drove it until the warning light came on. Now, I wasn't there, but I'm guessing that in the total of two hours from the time we dropped it off until they called and said it was ready, there really wasn't time to take it out on the road, drive it until it went into "limp mode," drive it back (at about 5 mph) to the service bays, and THEN take out the old ETB and install the new one and test it.


I did not cuss. I did not scream. I did not throw anything. I did, I admit, for perhaps the second time in my life, call someone a liar to his face.


Just in case you're still reading, here's one more website that sums this whole mess up more succinctly than I can: http://www.fordproblems.com/trends/elec ... ttle-body/


To summarize:


1. I will never, ever, have anything to do with Town and Country Ford in any way, shape, or form, ever again, if I can help it.


2. I will never knowingly buy a Ford product and I will recommend the same to all my friends, family, and associates.


3. Customer Service in the 21st century is as much an oxymoron as political science was in the 20th.


4. Ford vehicles of any model from 2009-2013 (at least) are deathtraps.


5. Another government agency is more concerned about corporate America than with doing the job they are tasked with.


Thanks for reading

[Estonut]

I'd look into recovering the charge in small claims court, just to let them know they can't do this to people. Another option might be to sue them because they were unable to make the diagnosis and repair until the vehicle was out of warranty(ies).

[gsabc]

I gave up on Fords years ago, in the carburetor days. Owned a Mercury Comet, which kept having carburetor problems. Had two rebuilds in about three years. When the problem appeared again, I asked for a replacement instead of a rebuild. They couldn't do it. The plate on the carburetor with its part number had fallen off, so they couldn't identify which of the twenty-four different carburetors used in that year's Comet it was.

I've maintained since then that "Quality is Job 1" for them because it had to be, they sucked at it.

[ghostjmf]

I had a Honda civic that died in the road if you got it over 50mph. It was fine under that speed. Turned out to be valve deep in the engine that would have required $3,000.00+ to fix. At any rate, I know that "you're dead on the highway" feeling. It's better than uncontrolled acceleration but you (or your inlaws, in this case) could still get killed.

[ghostjmf]

I've also had that ignition switch problem that is currently plaguing Chevy. Mine was in my Acura Integra & really was worn-down switch, though. I took all the non-car keys off the ring after I had that fixed.

[Ritterskoop]

I'm very sorry this happened to you and your family.

Something turned me off on Ford years ago but I don't remember what it was. I had a cute little Ranger truck that was great for delivering newspapers, but other than that, no good experiences. They have felt, I don't know, cheap to me for quite some years. I know that's subjective but with so many other options, it's easy to put them on the bad list.

[littlebeast13]

So this is why the Lions usually suck so much each year.... they go into limp mode once the season starts...



On a more serious note, I also have the pleasure of owning a car with an obvious defect that the company decided not to make a recall on. Neons from the 90's are notorious for having head gaskets that fail within the first few years of the engine's life... which I didn't find out for myself until I had mine fixed in January 2003. The only reason I didn't have to pay for an expensive repair is because I took the extended warranty the Chevy dealer who sold me the LBN (used, obviously) pushed on me... and I caught the problem just months before it expired. While the newer model head has held out the past 12 years, I've still had issues with oil leakage, and that too seems to be one of the general banes of owning a Neon. I can only assume the reason there was never a recall on the original shitty head gaskets was because it wasn't really a safety issue, just a "pay out the ass to fix it" kind of issue, which was nice for the bottom line of Daimler Chrysler and their dealers....

That said... I'll still hold on to my beloved LBN until she rusts apart. I am firm in my belief that cars these days are made to intentionally not last, so you have to buy a new one every few years. That may keep the automakers away from the government bailout table, but it's also a load of bullshit...

lb13

[themanintheseersuckersuit]

Just this year I learned what a throttle body was when I had to buy a new one for my 2006 Pontiac. I'll never buy a new Pontiac.

[mrkelley23]

Just this year I learned what a throttle body was when I had to buy a new one for my 2006 Pontiac. I'll never buy a new Pontiac.

This... is true.

I think what got me even more incensed than I would normally be is that it happened not to me but to family. Bill and Sherry are two of the nicer people in the world, and the fact that the last two times it quit on him were when he was driving to the hospice wing of the hospital to visit her is pretty scary. She's lived eight years beyond what her oncologist admitted a little while ago that he expected her to. She's going downhill now, and it's pretty obvious, but she still keeps going to things and staying involved.

The other thing that bothers me so much is that this is obviously not a wear-and-tear issue. I can see something like what lb's talking about, you know, just accepting the fact that your car has a defect that causes things to wear out faster than other cars. In fact, we did that with the only other Ford in our family -- my oldest son's Explorer had to have a new (well, rebuilt) transmission after only about 50,000 miles, about 2,000 of which were driven by him. We later found out that those Explorers were notorious for that problem. We griped about it in general, but it didn't cause me near the anger and frustration that this thing has.

[MarleysGh0st]

You've written a fine rant, Mikey. I wish there was a solution to your problem.

I noticed you also posted this rant on Facebook, where it's likely to get more attention. I wonder if the dealership (or Ford) will take notice of it.

[Bob Juch]

You've written a fine rant, Mikey. I wish there was a solution to your problem.

I noticed you also posted this rant on Facebook, where it's likely to get more attention. I wonder if the dealership (or Ford) will take notice of it.

Since Ford doesn't have a Facebook presence, probably not. I did hear back from Hornitos today though.

[jarnon]

You've written a fine rant, Mikey. I wish there was a solution to your problem.

I noticed you also posted this rant on Facebook, where it's likely to get more attention. I wonder if the dealership (or Ford) will take notice of it.

Since Ford doesn't have a Facebook presence, probably not. I did hear back from Hornitos today though.

Ford Motor Company has 2,986,581 likes on FB. I suppose you're not going to help them get to 3,000,000.

I looked for your rant on FB but couldn't see it. Is it visible to friends only? That will reduce its attention.

[Bob Juch]

You've written a fine rant, Mikey. I wish there was a solution to your problem.

I noticed you also posted this rant on Facebook, where it's likely to get more attention. I wonder if the dealership (or Ford) will take notice of it.

Since Ford doesn't have a Facebook presence, probably not. I did hear back from Hornitos today though.

Ford Motor Company has 2,986,581 likes on FB. I suppose you're not going to help them get to 3,000,000.

I looked for your rant on FB but couldn't see it. Is it visible to friends only? That will reduce its attention.

That's odd, FB's search doesn't work.

[Bob78164]

This does inspire me to wonder (a) whether Indiana has a lemon law, and (b) whether it's applicable under these circumstances. --Bob